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  1. #1
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    Dog Suggestions...?

    Just got a new dog -a Blue Heeler mix- and would like to introduce him to the trails. I was thinking of South Mountain, but it's been a while since I've ridden there and I can't remember how stringent are the leash rules. I don't plan on adhering to any leash policy, but I'd like to know who, if anyone, will be gunning for me when they encounter my free-ranging buddy.

    Are there any leash regulations? If so, are they well enforced? One of the things I do remember is that, if anything needs a leash, a good start would be some of the goober hikers on Mormon and National.

    Finally, I've heard good things about Estrella. Where is that located?

    Thanks for the help! I'm from Idaho and, despite living here for 4 years, I possess little knowledge of the trails...

  2. #2
    wretch
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    everyone will be gunning, including people on the forums.

    I say go early and ride at T100 lots more expansive trails and less "tension". I have never had a problem out there, you just have to be very courteous and cautious. Always stop when needed. I wouldnt ride with my dog off leash if I wasnt not 100 percent sure she would come at a beckon. . . but thats not an issue as she is never in front, and stays right on the rear tire.

    I ride as many trails around here as I can, and with the dog whenever I can, but I will NOT take her to SOMO.

    Another thing you need to be careful in deciding with the trails is how rough they will be on the pooch's paws.

    You just have to be careful. . . plenty of water for the dog as well. Mine usually gets 3/4 of my 3L reservoir.

    Your better off leashless in less populated areas like Globe, Prescott, Flagg (where people are also a little more accepting).

    Tread carefully. Do everyone a favour and ride where you will encounter the fewest people. There are just as many riders out there who don't care for leashless dogs on the trails as there are hikers.

    If your looking for trails check out the visitors sticky up top.

  3. #3
    wretch
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    Skinny your very clear and concise for god knows how many painkillers you must be on right now . . .

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Just got a new dog -a Blue Heeler mix- and would like to introduce him to the trails. I was thinking of South Mountain, but it's been a while since I've ridden there and I can't remember how stringent are the leash rules. I don't plan on adhering to any leash policy, but I'd like to know who, if anyone, will be gunning for me when they encounter my free-ranging buddy.

    Are there any leash regulations? If so, are they well enforced? One of the things I do remember is that, if anything needs a leash, a good start would be some of the goober hikers on Mormon and National.

    Finally, I've heard good things about Estrella. Where is that located?

    Thanks for the help! I'm from Idaho and, despite living here for 4 years, I possess little knowledge of the trails...
    Let me preface this by saying "I'm on some serious drugs right now, so if this is a level, I'm blaming the drugs."

    As a dog owner who also "ignores" the leash law (I don't bike with her, and only let her off during off peak hours), a mountain biker, I strongly encourage you *not* to ride with your dog off leash, especially in popular hiking/biking areas, and during peak times (i.e., weekend days). Yes, hikers will complain (both to you and to the park rangers), as will other bikers, ect., and it can be dangerous, especially if your dog is not used to the trails. (And a side note, if you got a new dog, how do you even know if he will behave off leash?)
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  5. #5
    parenting for gnarness
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    I second everything Truckee said - i take my dog offleash all the time, but almost always its undeveloped areas, social trails etc. My dog is very good around a few people, but if she is constantly dealing with people on a busy trail she gets distracted and is less under my control at those times - its no fun for either of us when that happens and I can not in good conscience say she is under my control in those situations. I usually drag-leash her now, and let her roam but call her and control her when people are approaching. Never to SOMO offleash, or Usery during busy times, etc. I would still bring a leash with you, be very proactive about controlling your dog around others and be very willing to be nice and defer when others ask you to leash the dog - guaranteed that you will get reported by somebody at any of the big parks. Slow times, late at night etc. where you will encounter the fewest people is your best bet. People imo are more willing to deal with the occasional dog on a less-crowded trail.

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the advice!! I'll stay away from South Mountain.

    He's pretty good off the leash; he's smart, he follows me and he comes when I call him.

    Wierd that people out here are so finnicky about dogs... If a dog is worth a sh*t, he knows how to behave without a leash. Leashes are no fun...

    Any suggestions about where to ride with him?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash
    Skinny your very clear and concise for god knows how many painkillers you must be on right now . . .
    One, but I get to take another in 30 mins, so I'm sure it's wearing off. I'm so friggin bored right now, I'm considering proving Enstein's theory of Gravity.
    Last edited by Casual Observer; 12-05-2008 at 12:59 PM.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  8. #8
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    I think you could go out to the area around Cavecreek road and Jomax.... never see anyone riding out there anymore. There are some hikers, but very few.... you will need to get a state land permit.

  9. #9
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    A state land permit? Excuse the language, but, what the ****...? A permit to ride?

    Anyone think people would be upset if I took him for a ride on Desert Classic? Or is this South Mountain stuff serious business?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Thanks for the advice!! I'll stay away from South Mountain.

    He's pretty good off the leash; he's smart, he follows me and he comes when I call him.

    Wierd that people out here are so finnicky about dogs... If a dog is worth a sh*t, he knows how to behave without a leash. Leashes are no fun...

    Any suggestions about where to ride with him?
    I grew up around dogs, so for the most I'm not scared of dogs, even ones off leash (I usually assume that if the owner let's them off leash, then they know the dog is not aggressive), but keep in mind not everybody is comfy around dogs for whatever reason. Has nothing to do with you, your dog, what whatever. They just are uncomfortable around them. Don't put the responsibility on them, as it's your responsibility to make sure nothing happens.
    Last edited by Casual Observer; 12-05-2008 at 12:56 PM.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  11. #11
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    Heh, I know it's my responsibility, but some people need to get a grip on reality. There are a lot of things that people do on a day-to-day basis which make me uncomfortable. Smoking in public, conspicuous resource consumption and poor trail etiquette are acts which tend to put me in awkward dispositions, but I wouldn't dream of punishing the offending party -even though most of these are things which are harmful to me; more harmful, I'd say, than a free-roaming dog.

    I'll stop,though, before I get too deep in an unfulfilling rant...

    Thanks, guys, for the suggestions!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    A state land permit? Excuse the language, but, what the ****...? A permit to ride?
    Yes... if you go on state trust land, usually its just for your car to be on the land. Just wanted to give you a heads up...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Heh, I know it's my responsibility, but some people need to get a grip on reality. There are a lot of things that people do on a day-to-day basis which make me uncomfortable. Smoking in public, conspicuous resource consumption and poor trail etiquette are acts which tend to put me in awkward dispositions, but I wouldn't dream of punishing the offending party -even though most of these are things which are harmful to me; more harmful, I'd say, than a free-roaming dog.

    I'll stop,though, before I get too deep in an unfulfilling rant...

    Thanks, guys, for the suggestions!
    Where did I say walking a dog offleash was harmful? Put yourself in the shoes of somebody who was attacked by a dog as a kid, or whatever. For whatever reason, they are not comfortable around dogs. Like I said earlier, I let my dog off leash occasionally when we hike (never when I bike), but if I realize somebody is uncomfortable, on the leash she goes.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Heh, I know it's my responsibility, but some people need to get a grip on reality. There are a lot of things that people do on a day-to-day basis which make me uncomfortable. Smoking in public, conspicuous resource consumption and poor trail etiquette are acts which tend to put me in awkward dispositions, but I wouldn't dream of punishing the offending party -even though most of these are things which are harmful to me; more harmful, I'd say, than a free-roaming dog.

    I'll stop,though, before I get too deep in an unfulfilling rant...

    Thanks, guys, for the suggestions!
    There are some freaky people on the trails. Phoenix is a BIG city and the trail-user population is getting bigger all the time, esp. this time of year. Unfortunately, I'm seeing a general rise in uptightedness out there, esp. on busy days -- holidays, weekends, first few cool days of the year, etc.

    As a dog owner, I love nothing more than doing stuff with my dog off-leash. But not in the parks, especially not when it's busy. I don't coming across an unleashed dog in a park -- small dogs tend to end up underfoot and I'm afraid I'm gonna bump one, big dogs you just never know about. Out in the country, on a remote trail? Love 'em to death.

    I've met hundreds of trail dogs off-leash on Mt. Elden, up in Sedona, in Payson, Prescott, Pinetop...always a good experience. I've also met off-leash trail dogs right here in town, and if it's a pretty quiet day I usually have no issue. It's when the day is busy, the dog's riled up and the owner shows no interest in leashing their dog (you know, kind of indicate that you have a leash and are prepared to use it and wait for me to yea/nay it) that I get unhappy.

    p.

  15. #15
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    Keep your dog on a leash, I am comfortable around dogs but hate it when dog owners think it's ok to break the leash laws because their dog is the best dog in the world. If you want your dog to roam leashless take it to a dog park. Not everyone likes your dog like you do and doesn't necessarily want it in their face.

    Letting your dog off it's leash is being just as inconsiderate as the public smoker, the conspicous resource consumer, and rude trail user. You are the "assumes everyone loves my dog to" trail user.

    I am an on and off peak trail user and will narc on you.

  16. #16
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    Well, to that respect, not everyone likes you like your mother does and I don't necessarily want you in my face.

    But, alas, the world doesn't work that way.

    Really, dude, you'd narc on me? Make sure you mention your post name before you rat me out so I can be sure to track you down and kick your ass!


    ...I'm awfully sorry this thread has hit a negative tone; I didn't know it was such a touchy topic.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Well, to that respect, not everyone likes you like your mother does and I don't necessarily want you in my face.

    But, alas, the world doesn't work that way.

    Really, dude, you'd narc on me? Make sure you mention your post name before you rat me out so I can be sure to track you down and kick your ass!


    ...I'm awfully sorry this thread has hit a negative tone; I didn't know it was such a touchy topic.
    Pat, I'm on some serious pain killlers right now, but you seriously must be reading something into these posts. You asked for advice, and you got it. Now you have to get personal? Hhmmmm, not going to make many friends this way.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  18. #18
    wretch
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    Quote Originally Posted by GueroAZ
    Keep your dog on a leash, I am comfortable around dogs but hate it when dog owners think it's ok to break the leash laws because their dog is the best dog in the world. If you want your dog to roam leashless take it to a dog park. Not everyone likes your dog like you do and doesn't necessarily want it in their face.

    Letting your dog off it's leash is being just as inconsiderate as the public smoker, the conspicous resource consumer, and rude trail user. You are the "assumes everyone loves my dog to" trail user.

    I am an on and off peak trail user and will narc on you.
    I told you you would be gunned for.

    I have to say the dog parks here are awful, full of the people who don't properly exercise their dogs, who don't pick up after their dogs, and have no idea how to own/live/control a dog. They are covered in shi't and ill behaved owners and dogs. IMO.

    OP. . . your dog may be good off leash in general, but you on a bike is different. Said dog needs to get used to you on the bike and staying with you and out of harms way.

    Do not go to South Mountain. I can say from experience that the best two places to go are T100 super early and not on a weekend, or Hawes and the same time frame.

  19. #19
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    Ha...

    Guero says he's going to 'narc' on me... Why wouldn't I want to kick his ass?


    Thanks, Truckee. Where are T100 and Hawes? What kind of trails are they?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Well, to that respect, not everyone likes you like your mother does and I don't necessarily want you in my face.

    But, alas, the world doesn't work that way.

    Really, dude, you'd narc on me? Make sure you mention your post name before you rat me out so I can be sure to track you down and kick your ass!


    ...I'm awfully sorry this thread has hit a negative tone; I didn't know it was such a touchy topic.
    So you would break another law instead of owning up to your original offense? Another holier than thou assumption.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Ha...

    Guero says he's going to 'narc' on me... Why wouldn't I want to kick his ass?


    Thanks, Truckee. Where are T100 and Hawes? What kind of trails are they?
    Because for the most part we are civil. How old are you exactly?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  22. #22
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    Telling on somebody is certainly civil, but it's not very mature...

    I get the point, though; I won't take him to South Mountain. Other than the afformentioned trails, are there any trails around the East Valley?

  23. #23
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    No, I'd acknowledge my misdoing, but I'd be fairly upset with an adult male who lacks the testicular fortitude to politely confront me.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    No, I'd acknowledge my misdoing, but I'd be fairly upset with an adult male who lacks the testicular fortitude to politely confront me.
    What about the hiker who places large rocks along the trail? Should I not phone that one in? Aren't they breaking a rule also?

    If you think it's ok to not phone in one rule then you should let them all slide. You aren't special. The rules work because we all have to live by them and they don't unduly discriminate.

    If we all respected trail rules maybe we would all get along better when using them.

  25. #25
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Telling on somebody is certainly civil, but it's not very mature...

    I get the point, though; I won't take him to South Mountain. Other than the afformentioned trails, are there any trails around the East Valley?

    It is the law to keep your dog on a leash in most public areas. To not do so is silly and immature.

  26. #26
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    That's debateable. Take a look at the previous posts...

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Telling on somebody is certainly civil, but it's not very mature...

    I get the point, though; I won't take him to South Mountain. Other than the afformentioned trails, are there any trails around the East Valley?
    Just so we're clear, it's against the law to have your dog off leash on any multiuse trail in Phoenix or Maricopa.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  28. #28
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    Here's some no leash advice learned the hard way and something I'm surprised not to see mentioned yet; I used to have my two dogs run off leash with me while I rode on the BCT until one of them turned up not following me. A 30 minute back track found him dead under a tree with a horribly swollen face and rigormortis. The vet said that it was most likely a good sized rattler that got him. Six months later the new pup and the old guy went to rattlesnake avoidance training. It wasn't very expensive and well worth the money. Six weeks after training a Western Diamondback turned up in the yard. The two of them raised hell but wouldn't get within 20 feet of that sucker. --- About the permit; it is not a permit to ride. It is a permit for the right to use the land for recreational purposes- many of them. It will be obvious enough to you once you ride here a while what things some people are doing to try to give away/get taken away the right to use State land. Drive Table Mesa Road to the Little Pan Loop trailhead and you will get a taste of what I'm talking about. Your permit may help offset some of the bad karma that these human scum generate. --- And lastly; stop threatening to kick people's asses. A guy threatened to kick mine one time and it cost us both badly: him, internal injuries and scars; me, jail time, restitution, and future employment problems.

    Good luck with the mutt.

  29. #29
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    Well, I certainly hope that you (an apparently rigid crusader for the law) would phone that in -in the interest of objectivity, you know...? I realize that you "hate it when dog owners think it's ok to break the leash laws because their dog is the best dog in the world," but, as you said, society would be better served if we didn't "unduly discriminate" by persuing one misdeed more doggedly than another based on the level of offense to which an individual may or may not be subjected.

    Grow up.

  30. #30
    sprocket
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    That's debateable. Take a look at the previous posts...
    I did not know that city and county codes were debatable.

  31. #31
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    The inanity of them is, you ****ing moron.

  32. #32
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    popcorn time. . .

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    The inanity of them is, you ****ing moron.

    oh? are you threatening me?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truckee Trash
    popcorn time. . .
    <---pulls up a seat.

  35. #35
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    Ha. Thanks, man. I'll have to consider some avoidance training. The riding community here seems much different than what I'm used to. I don't mind paying for a permit, if it's for a good cause.

    I don't understand the dog issue and I really don't understand why a 30 year-old man would tell on me, rather than approach me. Wierd.

    Maybe I'll just do Sedona...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix

    Grow up.
    This is getting fun!!!!!
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  37. #37
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    Can you read? Does it look like I am?

    I take it that I'm not the first person to call you a moron...

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by sixsixtysix
    <---pulls up a seat.
    Six, did I ever tell you you're my favorite moderator of ALL TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    I take it that I'm not the first person to call you a moron...
    You learn quick Pat. But, FYI, Yeti is OUR moron. You are still considered an outsider until you get to 100 posts.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  40. #40
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    Yeah, It kind'a seems like he's just following controversey. But if he's truly a double-digit IQ'r, as it seems, then he's forgiven...

  41. #41
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    Just remember not to take him out if it is going to be over 85 or so, dogs get overheated much easier thsn humans, and take it easy on downhills, it is hard on their feet. Ive got my dog trained to stay on my wheel so when I see a hiker, other dog, or cyclist I have control over him. Let me recomend also a E- collar to reinforce your commands, like this one
    http://www.amazon.com/Innotek-DIGITA...8515534&sr=8-1
    they work really well.

  42. #42
    Meatbomb
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix

    Grow up.


    Almost wet myself with that one.... Try reading your post again and then think about who needs to grow up

    You started off asking for advice and did not like what you heard .


    I'm not afraid of dogs but had one that was off leash dart in front of me like it was a game and I hit it hard enough to make it squeal.... made me feel bad and the owner pissed ( don't get me started on that )...

    play by the rules and everyone will get along.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Can you read? Does it look like I am?

    I take it that I'm not the first person to call you a moron...
    It is times like this that make me wonder. I sit here conversing with this Pat person about leash laws and I get called a moron. How silly is that? It made me chuckle. I guess you are right, I am a moron.

    Pat, just realize, please, that you can take your dog anywhere you want. Leave it at that and deal with whatever actions that are presented to you.

    But, to post a blurb about your outright refusal to obey any leash laws should leave you with plenty of negativity form any forum. Your outright aggressive stance to those who do not agree with you does not give you the right to belittle and mock them.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Yeah, It kind'a seems like he's just following controversey. But if he's truly a double-digit IQ'r, as it seems, then he's forgiven...
    I accept no forgiveness.

  45. #45
    Meatbomb
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Maybe I'll just do Sedona...

    It's World Class

  46. #46
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    Most of the commenters here have offered constructive advice and, for that, I'm appreciative. I am irritated, though, by the few who have interjected berating and condescending messages. From your posts, I can tell that you don't fully comprehend the topic. It appears that you're here for the sake of being a contrarian *******; that's why I don't like you. Please, don't comment for the sake of belittling a guy (me) whom you've pinned as irascible; you risk looking like a hypocrite.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatrickNix
    Most of the commenters here have offered constructive advice and, for that, I'm appreciative. I am irritated, though, by the few who have interjected berating and condescending messages. From your posts, I can tell that you don't fully comprehend the topic. It appears that you're here for the sake of being a contrarian *******; that's why I don't like you. Please, don't comment for the sake of belittling a guy (me) whom you've pinned as irascible; you risk looking like a hypocrite.

    ha! you make me laugh at your outrageous use of language!

  48. #48
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    ha! you make me laugh at your outrageous use of language!
    That's because you're a moron. It's a shame that you're mother didn't have a pregnancy plan that included abortion.

  49. #49
    Meatbomb
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    Kids.

  50. #50
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    WTF? We're all done now. Anyone who doesn't understand why can go read the posting guidelines.

    p.

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