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  1. #1
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    Does Anyone Know How Lama Was Born??

    I just got though reading the newly released book "The Rise of the Gnarly Crew by Ramajon" which is a satirical commentary that chronicles the growth of mountain biking in Sedona. One of the trails not referenced in the book was the Lama trail.

    I am curious if any MTBR viewers know how this trail was born and how the trail was finally adopted into a system status. I don't believe it was a FS built trail originally.

    I am going to put a spreadsheet together for the RTCA meeting showing the mountain biking trails that were in existence in 1998 and how the trail system expanded to it's current size with and without the help of the Gnarly Crew.

    You have to wonder what kind of hype there would have been if the FS had been in charge of trail development here. Would a bike shops like Fat Tire Bike or Over the Edge be here now? Would have Mountain Bike Heaven ever stayed in business without all those new trails since 1998.

    I was pleasantly surprised how well written the book was from an adventurous mountain bikers point of view. If you like exploring new mountain biking routes this book will certainly give you a laugh. If you are a Bell Rock Pathway type rider who would never venture off trail, don't waste your money.
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    Last edited by traildoc; 01-23-2013 at 07:48 PM.

  2. #2
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    Windsurfer, at $13.95 the book could use some pictures don't you think? I mean if all the players have gnarly nicknames there should be some fading, yellow polaroids to help with the perspective.

    I recall Llama being built circa 1997 or 98. It was under the radar for a year or two but the FS quickly adopted it. Around the same time Templeton which was user-built in the early 90s was also incorporated into the system with a major reroute where it traverses the erodible soft dirt just before hitting slickrock.
    Last edited by rockman; 01-22-2013 at 02:46 PM.

  3. #3
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    It was a llama trail into the early 90's from Jacks to Little H. As there was a llama ranch on Jacks. John Eagan, Don Wolf, Ralph Hines prez of K2, Bob Girvin prez of Proflex dolled it up for bikes around 97. Wickson trail bossed it around '04 into what we have today. Signs came shortly after.

  4. #4
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    98. I was a freshmen in high school back then and I went for my first ride in sedona that year on a borrowed alpinestars. That ride changed my life. Thanks to all the folks that made Sedona an awesome place to ride today. I owe you all a million high-fives and you have my gratitude Even if I argue with some of you on the internet I appreciate your work.

  5. #5
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    I love trail history threads. Too bad Arizona is not a providence of Canada.

  6. #6
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    I told myself last night, no more Trolldoc threads. I guess I'm weak willed.

    I feel like a battered wife going back to an abusive husband.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    I told myself last night, no more Trolldoc threads. I guess I'm weak willed.

    I feel like a battered wife going back to an abusive husband.
    Why even post in this thread? You have nothing to add except pollution. Why don't you post some stoke for a change.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by jodd View Post
    It was a llama trail into the early 90's from Jacks to Little H. As there was a llama ranch on Jacks. John Eagan, Don Wolf, Ralph Hines prez of K2, Bob Girvin prez of Proflex dolled it up for bikes around 97. Wickson trail bossed it around '04 into what we have today. Signs came shortly after.
    That is awesome beta. I never heard the story where the Llama name came about

    I remember when everyone thought the Proflex was the shizzle.

  9. #9
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    I googled "how llama was born" and came up with this. I don't know if I needed to see it, but now I know.

    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by m77ranger View Post
    98. I was a freshmen in high school back then and I went for my first ride in sedona that year on a borrowed alpinestars. That ride changed my life. Thanks to all the folks that made Sedona an awesome place to ride today. I owe you all a million high-fives and you have my gratitude Even if I argue with some of you on the internet I appreciate your work.
    77:

    Is "some of you "one person or a bunch of people"?

    Do you think Person X has admitted to the IMBA southwest regional manager that he built ten or more Sedona user built trails in Sedona? How about one trail?

    Think about this, I went on a ride in Soldiers Wash today and rode with some tourons that we met at the sinkhole. As the self-apointed ambassador I invited then to ride with us to the Ant Hill intersection. They were from Virgina and looked like basic intermediate types with spandex on. Boy was I wrong this husband and wife team ripped.

    Anyway we rode a bunch of Person X's trails and I pointed out how fortunate we are to have Person Y & X get all those great trails adopted. They were totally impressed at what WE have accomplished in Sedona.
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    Does Anyone Know How Lama Was Born??-2013-01-22_12-52-03_502.jpg  

    Last edited by traildoc; 01-22-2013 at 10:50 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    77:

    Is "some of you "one person or a bunch of people"?

    Do you think Person X has admitted to the IMBA southwest regional manager that he built ten or more Sedona user built trails in Sedona? How about one trail?

    Think about this, I went on a ride in Soldiers Wash today and rode with some tourons that we met at the sinkhole. As the self-apointed ambassador I invited then to ride with us to the Ant Hill intersection. They were from Virgina and looked like basic intermediate types with spandex on. Boy was I wrong this husband and wife team ripped.

    Anyway we rode a bunch of Person X's trails and I pointed out how fortunate we are to have Person Y & X get all those great trails adopted. They were totally impressed at what WE have accomplished in Sedona.
    I thought this thread was about Llama and/or Rama's book?
    Now your hyjacking your own thread. Stay on topic.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I thought this thread was about Llama and/or Rama's book?
    Now your hyjacking your own thread. Stay on topic.
    hijacking one's own thread can make you go blind.
    "Let our people travel light and free on their bicycles." Ed Abbey
    http://www.rockychrysler.com/

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    I thought this thread was about Llama and/or Rama's book?
    Now your hyjacking your own thread. Stay on topic.
    rockman:

    I am happy you responded and not someone else. I am scheduled to do a ride with Person Z on Monday regarding my postings on MTBR this last month or so. I told this individual I am not interested in doing the ride unless he admits to believing Person X has done user built trail building.

    If Person Z doesn't believe Person X has done user built trail building and he thinks I should be treated differently than Person X than I see no use in riding with him. I met twelve new friends on the trail today. Two were from England, two were from Virginia, and six were from North Carolina. I even met Woahey at the creek and he can verify I was riding with the new friends from Virginia, that I will also be riding with tomorrow.

    I want to get this whole Person X & Y thing behind me, but I will not be discriminated against because I did a thousand times less enhancements than Person X. MTBR knows what the situation is going on in Sedona and they know I am not the terrible person the FS has publicized me to be.

    I am being treated entirely different than Person X because he is dating Person Y, if Person IMBA can't see that, what is the point of a meeting? If he is going to offer me a large amount of money to not post anymore so I can more to Bend, OR that would be fine or instead being given the trail boss position on a newly adopted trail like Special Ed would also be nice. That's all I wanted months ago after doing my time and after paying my fine.

    As long as I offer to show riders our great trail system I will get liked minded riders to do rides with me, I don't care who much they hate me. I don't need to ride with someone who doesn't have my interest at heart. I am way to old to be told I need to show remorse when Person X isn't showing any either.

    Jennifer has every right to show Person X ,she and Heather are driving the bus, that doesn't mean it is right. It is pretty hard for me to believe Heather is supporting this dynamic at this point in time. You have to wonder who higher up the chain knows what is going on? Does the whole FS up to Washington DC agree with that kind of favoritism, I hope not.

    Isn't the Lama thing done, another mountain bike user built trail that riders enjoy riding, what's wrong with that?. I will be making up a spread sheet showing the trail inventory for mountain bikers in 1998 and compare that to our current 2013 list. I think it will be very enlightening.

    TD

  14. #14
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    Was Hot Loop user-built? That used to be a go-to trail in the 90s combined with Llama.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Was Hot Loop user-built? That used to be a go-to trail in the 90s combined with Llama.
    Good question, if it was that is one of the worst user built trails, mainly because it is used a lot by equestrians.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    That is awesome beta. I never heard the story where the Llama name came about

    I remember when everyone thought the Proflex was the shizzle.
    Kind of a funny story in that Bob Girvin and Ralph Hines both lived in the VOC. Ralph's company bought out Proflex and started making the K2 versions. After a few years K2 got out of the high end market because as Ralph said "there is a lot more money to be made in department store bikes." You remember the Girvin Vector fork? Bob designed that as well. Ever take one of those apart and put in new elastomers ? Yikes!

    llama in 95 and 96 actually followed one of the big washes that parallels Bell Rock Pathway for about a mile somewhere in the middle. There used to be a bomber little dh a few hundred yards in on llama from Little Horse that took you back down to the Path way long before you get to the Bail Trail. Somewhere around the Tarmac drop there was a trail that led you back to Path way that was a hoot.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jodd View Post
    Kind of a funny story in that Bob Girvin and Ralph Hines both lived in the VOC. Ralph's company bought out Proflex and started making the K2 versions. After a few years K2 got out of the high end market because as Ralph said "there is a lot more money to be made in department store bikes." You remember the Girvin Vector fork? Bob designed that as well. Ever take one of those apart and put in new elastomers ? Yikes!

    llama in 95 and 96 actually followed one of the big washes that parallels Bell Rock Pathway for about a mile somewhere in the middle. There used to be a bomber little dh a few hundred yards in on llama from Little Horse that took you back down to the Path way long before you get to the Bail Trail. Somewhere around the Tarmac drop there was a trail that led you back to Path way that was a hoot.
    jodd:

    Good stuff where did Bail and Baby Bell come from?

    TD

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jodd View Post
    Kind of a funny story in that Bob Girvin and Ralph Hines both lived in the VOC. Ralph's company bought out Proflex and started making the K2 versions. After a few years K2 got out of the high end market because as Ralph said "there is a lot more money to be made in department store bikes." You remember the Girvin Vector fork? Bob designed that as well. Ever take one of those apart and put in new elastomers ? Yikes!

    llama in 95 and 96 actually followed one of the big washes that parallels Bell Rock Pathway for about a mile somewhere in the middle. There used to be a bomber little dh a few hundred yards in on llama from Little Horse that took you back down to the Path way long before you get to the Bail Trail. Somewhere around the Tarmac drop there was a trail that led you back to Path way that was a hoot.
    I sort of remember that. You could then cut over on a precursor to HT to cross the road. But what I really remember is the awesome DH from the pass to Circle K before RR pathway was built. And of course the Circle K secret trail.

  19. #19
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    How?

    Pretty sure a unicorn fvcked something.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  20. #20
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    If a unicorn fvcks, and the new book sucks, what's with this thread about a Lama that bucks ?

  21. #21
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    i used to own a Tibetan sandwich shop that specialized in Alpaca meat.
    it was called the Dalai Lama Llama Deli...

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    i used to own a Tibetan sandwich shop that specialized in Alpaca meat.
    it was called the Dalai Lama Llama Deli...
    Rep.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    i used to own a Tibetan sandwich shop that specialized in Alpaca meat.
    it was called the Dalai Lama Llama Deli...
    I used to know the owner of the Alpaca wool shop next door. Always wondered where all that wool came from. Now I think I have an idea.

  24. #24
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    I once saw two male unicorns humping in the woods. The giver pulled out and blew rainbow colored jiz. It was amazing.

  25. #25
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    Lama, Was created through the efforts of Boyscout Bob...I recently was speaking to another old time Sedoan mountain biker and he also attributed the Lama trail to Bob

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