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Thread: cyclist shot.

  1. #1
    Beer Drnkr w/bike problem
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    cyclist shot.

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    Not enough info.
    By the way it sounds is the bicyclist had the right of way since they are to follow the same rules as motorists at traffic lights.
    The cyclist just should have kept his cool and waited for police though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by owtdorz View Post
    Not enough info.
    By the way it sounds is the bicyclist had the right of way since they are to follow the same rules as motorists at traffic lights.
    The cyclist just should have kept his cool and waited for police though.
    Did you read this?

    "The pedestrian light was red. He wasn't supposed to be crossing and ran into the side of the truck," said witness Michelle Noffsinger.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  4. #4
    Beer Drnkr w/bike problem
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    Quote Originally Posted by owtdorz View Post
    Not enough info.
    By the way it sounds is the bicyclist had the right of way since they are to follow the same rules as motorists at traffic lights.
    The cyclist just should have kept his cool and waited for police though.
    maybe you missed this but the punk was not following the rules in any way that I can tell. I don't see the bicyclist having the right of way. I want to side with cyclist when I can but this is not the case.

    Police said the two began arguing after the bicyclist disregarded a "Do Not Cross" signal at Telegraph and Northline roads, causing the driver to hit him. Witnesses said the bicyclist got up and confronted the driver.
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    I did read it.
    The "Do Not Cross" is used for pedestrians.
    And by what part of the truck was struck it looked as if the truck was turning right.
    Don't get me wrong, he was wrong by confronting the driver.
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    The biker sounds like a moron - I mean, we all run reds and stop signs but I check for traffic and certainly know that responsibility is on me...

    ...but shooting the guy? Not sure if fully justified. He was inside of the car, could have drove away, could have just pointed the gun and warned they guy... I don't see a biker armed with fists against a car as imminent threat.

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    Sounds like it was the biker's fault. As much as I want to side with him, I must admit I would have probably done the same as the driver.

    From my read it sounds like something like this happened:
    -Truck is approaching intersection where I intend on making a right turn
    -As I approach I pass the cyclist, who is riding on the sidewalk (mentioned in article)
    -Due to being on sidewalk, you make the presumption he will be stopping at the light, or at least slowing down to ensure its clear
    -You make the right, and mid-turn cyclist slams into the right side of your truck
    -(According to witnesses) Cyclist immediately gets up, runs to the driver window, and starts punching you

    -Here is where I would reach for my gun and put it in cyclists face. Difference here is the driver should have given the cyclist a chance to back off. We don't know if he did or did not. He may have. If cyclist backs off I would tell him to get on the ground, and call the police in for a report. If cyclist continues attacking me with the gun in his face I have a tough decision to make and need to make it fast because I'm more than likely being hit in the face.

  8. #8
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    The bicyclist was riding on the sidewalk.

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    So it might just be a better idea to memorize the license number and get info from a few witnesses to report it as a hit and run rather than chasing the dude down to punch him and then get shot.

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    Oh he actually started punching the guy? I thought he was hitting the car? So he just opened the car door and let the driver have it? How did he manage to reach for the gun then - while being supposedly mauled by the cyclist... hmm the details are very sketchy here..

    this is where the taser would come in handy... and don't have to sweat bullets for being charged with murder

  11. #11
    Beer Drnkr w/bike problem
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    Also, if you see the picture of the damage to truck it looks like the cyclist was riding at a very fast pace to cause such damage. I've been hit by cars before and this size of a dent on a bumper doesn't happen at a slow speed, on a hood yes. at least from my experience.
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  12. #12
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    When I first saw the title of this post, I thought someone was shot at BCT as they rode through table mesa....
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    In my opinion, shooting someone who is not armed is kind of *****-especially when the driver could have punched the gas and motored away. Not that the cyclist was right by getting in his face or punching it-but to kill a guy when you don't have to is pretty stupid and senseless. Hope he gets some serious time for his dumb actions.

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    Moral of the story is don't go up to someone in a vehicle and punch them if you don't want that person 1 up'ing you. Not too much to argue about in my opinion. Dude thought he was bigger and badder than dude in the truck. He was wrong and dude in the truck had the final say.

    I side with the driver all the way based on info at hand. Run into my F'ing truck and then top it off by going psycho on me... Getting drilled with whatever I see fit since you gave me the option. RIP to another idiot.

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    Looks like the full suspension walgoose held up pretty well all things considered.

    Joking aside this sounds like a case of double darwinism at it's finest...
    Keep the rubber side down

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    When I first saw the title of this post, I thought someone was shot at BCT as they rode through table mesa....
    Oh... and why would you think that? I am planning to ride BCT. No really, so many times I have ridden by some shot up car wrecks or refrigerators, I don't want to be some drunk *******s target practice.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Oh... and why would you think that? I am planning to ride BCT. No really, so many times I have ridden by some shot up car wrecks or refrigerators, I don't want to be some drunk *******s target practice.
    Then watch yourself at Table Mesa. South of the road they tend to shoot right over the trail. Makes me feel like a duck at a carnival.
    Today's the day I eat bikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Oh... and why would you think that? I am planning to ride BCT. No really, so many times I have ridden by some shot up car wrecks or refrigerators, I don't want to be some drunk *******s target practice.
    Yep, DN is right, I've come across a guy shooting across the trail and heard the whizzing sound above my head...not good. Just be careful on the section from just south of Table Mesa Rd to the bottom of the Pan Loop on weekends.
    Although there are a bunch of signs warning people not to shoot there, I suspect the offenders can't read....lol...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Yep, DN is right, I've come across a guy shooting across the trail and heard the whizzing sound above my head...not good. Just be careful on the section from just south of Table Mesa Rd to the bottom of the Pan Loop on weekends.
    Although there are a bunch of signs warning people not to shoot there, I suspect the offenders can't read....lol...
    So agree. I swear I had one wiz by my head right in that area. Really freaked me out!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AzTreky View Post
    Moral of the story is don't go up to someone in a vehicle and punch them if you don't want that person 1 up'ing you. Not too much to argue about in my opinion. Dude thought he was bigger and badder than dude in the truck. He was wrong and dude in the truck had the final say.

    I side with the driver all the way based on info at hand. Run into my F'ing truck and then top it off by going psycho on me... Getting drilled with whatever I see fit since you gave me the option. RIP to another idiot.
    Nice to know how much you value a humans life. What if the rider just found pic of his wife doing her boss ten minutes earlier and he snapped? NO ONE deserves to get shot for throwing a punch-even if the punch was not deserved and could have been avoided. Hit him with a tire iron? Sure. Shooting him because he is punching you is akin to saying these school shootings are okay since the kid/shooter was picked on and pushed around. If I shot someone for every sock to the face I have taken I would be Jesse James.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    Nice to know how much you value a humans life. What if the rider just found pic of his wife doing her boss ten minutes earlier and he snapped? NO ONE deserves to get shot for throwing a punch-even if the punch was not deserved and could have been avoided. Hit him with a tire iron? Sure. Shooting him because he is punching you is akin to saying these school shootings are okay since the kid/shooter was picked on and pushed around. If I shot someone for every sock to the face I have taken I would be Jesse James.
    Shooting him and hitting him with a tire iron are on the same level of a force continuum. Deadly force.

    And they are both lawful, at least in Arizona (an affirmative defense exists for the application of deadly force in many instances) in the event that someone is forcefully trying to remove you from your vehicle or inflicting significant bodily damage.

    Shooting someone during 'mutual combat' in which there is no reasonable chance of sustaining significant bodily damage or death (i.e. - every time you've been socked in the face) would be murder. Shooting some psycho that just ran a bike into the side of your vehicle and then proceeded to beat the snot out of you and/or attempt to pull you out of your car?

    I don't know about the story... what you can read on the news isn't the whole story and never will be. I wasn't there... I won't say that the shooters actions were reasonable or unreasonable. I would say, however, that the bicyclists actions weren't reasonable.

  22. #22
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    Nice to know how much you value a humans life. What if the rider just found pic of his wife doing her boss ten minutes earlier and he snapped?
    AZ gun carrying legislation would decide otherwise. i dont think they have the carrying law so people can walk around saying "yehaw im a fashionable western mofo".
    i %1000 don't agree with the carry laws, but since it is what it is, anyone living here needs to expect that the rules will back them in using shooting as a justifiable means of self defense [under way more sets of circumstances] than any other state..

    from what i understand, it wasn't just one sucker-punch and be done,, it was a continuous attack on the driver up until the point when the shot was fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raybum View Post
    Yep, DN is right, I've come across a guy shooting across the trail and heard the whizzing sound above my head...not good. Just be careful on the section from just south of Table Mesa Rd to the bottom of the Pan Loop on weekends.
    Although there are a bunch of signs warning people not to shoot there, I suspect the offenders can't read....lol...
    Great. Well that's that. The only way I ever ride there would be with a group of riders. I tend to mostly ride solo.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    In my opinion, shooting someone who is not armed is kind of *****-especially when the driver could have punched the gas and motored away. Not that the cyclist was right by getting in his face or punching it-but to kill a guy when you don't have to is pretty stupid and senseless. Hope he gets some serious time for his dumb actions.
    I have to completlely dissagree with your thought process here, you don't know the intentions of the attacker, maybe he was just getting started and would have pulled a knife next just to finish it off. Maybe the driver was frail,sick or just a small person and the attacker was much larger or a professional fighter! If a Pro-boxer or Chuck Norris got mad and began to pound you (the average person) one punch could be fatal. You have every right to protect yourself with whatever legal means available. I would have done the same as the driver if I felt I couldn't stop it anyother way. I hope we get more info on the story, who knows if the driver hit him on purpose.
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    If the driver is too weak to fight, a 10 dollar pepper spray would have done the trick.
    Spray in his face, close the door, drive off and call the cops.

  26. #26
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    although it would suck to be the driver and have to testify in front of everyone,, "the little bike guy in spandex came up to my window and i was afraid for my life"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TacoBeer View Post
    I have to completlely dissagree with your thought process here, you don't know the intentions of the attacker, maybe he was just getting started and would have pulled a knife next just to finish it off. Maybe the driver was frail,sick or just a small person and the attacker was much larger or a professional fighter! If a Pro-boxer or Chuck Norris got mad and began to pound you (the average person) one punch could be fatal. You have every right to protect yourself with whatever legal means available. I would have done the same as the driver if I felt I couldn't stop it anyother way. I hope we get more info on the story, who knows if the driver hit him on purpose.

    Great and valid points, but...if I was in my truck I would just floor it and hope I drug the dude a few yards, then call the cops. You knwo me, I am a small guy, but my truck tows up to 3500 lbs and that would include any pro fighter short of king-kong. Chuck Norris wouldn't need to punch me, he would just raise an eyebrow and I would have a broken nose because he is Chuck. If the driver was not in his truck, had no other means to defend, then possibly depending on many circumstances, a gun may be needed. IF a knife was produced-yes, fire away. People do go to jail for producing a lethal weapon when it is not deemed necessary. I have seen it happen twice, with a felony assualt charge given.

    Actually all of us arguing about this is kind of futile without us all knowing the facts. Did the driver make eyecontact then pull out and let the rider hit him? Did the driver start yelling or screaming obsenities (sp?) or racist slurs first? Did the rider just go off for apparent reason? Did he say he was going to kill the driver? Did he reach into his pocket, bag or under his shirt first?

    My only point is to disagree with those that say "He hit my truck... shoot...kill...". Or "he was hitting me so I can shoot...kill..." It is or should be much more complex than that to kill someone over a situation that could have been handled much differently. Just getting beat up does not call for deadly force. I think everyone should learn to protect themselves in non deadly as well as deadly means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    Nice to know how much you value a humans life. What if the rider just found pic of his wife doing her boss ten minutes earlier and he snapped? NO ONE deserves to get shot for throwing a punch-even if the punch was not deserved and could have been avoided. Hit him with a tire iron? Sure. Shooting him because he is punching you is akin to saying these school shootings are okay since the kid/shooter was picked on and pushed around. If I shot someone for every sock to the face I have taken I would be Jesse James.
    You're normally a reasonable guy, But not in this case.

    Justifying why someone does wrong on another is an excuse only setting the stage for the rare conflicting sad story in 1 off scenerios. Bottom line is no different though. Bike guy gave truck guy the right to choose his weapon of choice and lost. When you go ape crap on someone, don't expect the victim to act with reason. That is extremely unsound thinking.

    It also wouldn't be reasonable to asssume that while getting your face smashed in by someone, that that nut job is going to stop with a pounding. At that point you would put yourself at the mercy of lunatic while curled up in a ball praying he is satisfied with beating you to a bloody pulp and doesn't take it a step further by shooting with your own gun.

    I'm 6'3" 230, have seen more than the average cats share of knuckles, and would care less about the size of the man going ballistic. If a grown man is trying to excersize some demons on you... you better be ready. That or you better be able to 1 up him like happened here in this story.

    I've also put my neck on the line for many a stranger. You're comment about me not valuing human life could not be more wrong if you knew me. I'd measure my constitution vs. most men I've ever met and I consider myself to be lucky with some great and unselfish friends.
    Last edited by AzTreky; 08-31-2012 at 08:43 PM.

  29. #29
    Beer Drnkr w/bike problem
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    Great and valid points, but...if I was in my truck I would just floor it and hope I drug the dude a few yards, then call the cops. You knwo me, I am a small guy, but my truck tows up to 3500 lbs and that would include any pro fighter short of king-kong. Chuck Norris wouldn't need to punch me, he would just raise an eyebrow and I would have a broken nose because he is Chuck. If the driver was not in his truck, had no other means to defend, then possibly depending on many circumstances, a gun may be needed. IF a knife was produced-yes, fire away. People do go to jail for producing a lethal weapon when it is not deemed necessary. I have seen it happen twice, with a felony assualt charge given.

    Actually all of us arguing about this is kind of futile without us all knowing the facts. Did the driver make eyecontact then pull out and let the rider hit him? Did the driver start yelling or screaming obsenities (sp?) or racist slurs first? Did the rider just go off for apparent reason? Did he say he was going to kill the driver? Did he reach into his pocket, bag or under his shirt first?

    My only point is to disagree with those that say "He hit my truck... shoot...kill...". Or "he was hitting me so I can shoot...kill..." It is or should be much more complex than that to kill someone over a situation that could have been handled much differently. Just getting beat up does not call for deadly force. I think everyone should learn to protect themselves in non deadly as well as deadly means.
    Quit trying to be resonable, I drink lots of beer so I can make quick minded replys for no reason. Sucks this had to happen in the first place, regardless I do think the driver should have been able to keep an eye out and avoided this situation as well as the rider could have too. so lets all beat each other sensless with the bikes on trails this weekend. I plan on Pre-riding the Fire on the Rim course and beating the hell out of someone (ride wise) so don't shoot. come to think about it don't ride while wearing antlers, it is hunting season in some places. have fun, lets ride.
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  30. #30
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    Castle Law extends to your vehicle if you are inside of it. However, being outside of the vehicle it does not.

    Getting into a fist fight is not deadly force if it is one-on-one. Two or more on one that changes.

    ben

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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    although it would suck to be the driver and have to testify in front of everyone,, "the little bike guy in spandex came up to my window and i was afraid for my life"
    Good soundbite but do you really think a guy riding a Walmoose mtn bike on the sidewalk is wearing tights?

    Unless someone knows Michigan law it's all just speculation. In most states saying "I was in fear for my life" isn't your magic stay out of jail card if you shoot someone, you also have to prove it.
    bikes, guns, dogs....perfect

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    Quote Originally Posted by armourbl View Post
    Getting into a fist fight is not deadly force if it is one-on-one. Two or more on one that changes.
    ben
    Yes and no. If the fist fight is a one sided fist fight, and if the facts and circumstances are such that one person is reasonably fearful that he is about to be severly injured (GBI) or killed by the other, the use of lethal force is justified.

    Don't think you can kill someone using only your bare hands? You can. But the key word here is "reasonable." And the shooter will have to be able to convince the DA, (and possibly a jury) that it was..

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    If the fist fight is a one sided fist fight
    like a stroke victim cage match

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    Or if one bare knuckle fighter knocks the other one down on a concrete walkway and begins banging the other's head against it. That is the essence of George Zimmerman's defense..that he was reasonably in fear of receiving great bodily injury or death at the hands of Trevon Martin, who was unarmed. If the jury buys it...he will walk.

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    Lock truck doors and roll up windows. Problem of attacking biker solved. Or drive away 100 yards and call police. No gun needed. Drive away, drive away, drive away. Simple.

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