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  1. #1
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    Canyon of Fools B Line Shut DOWN

    I went out for a ride yesterday afternoon and spotted the USFS trail crew truck parked at the bottom on COF. I headed west on Dawa and ended doing a circle to Mescal and down Yucca to Canyon of Fools. While ripping through the wall rides I came to the B Line which bypasses the crappy A Line which is constantly eroding and making for a poor user experience by lesser skilled riders. Unfortunately the B Line has been trashed by live vegetatation and large pieces of rocks and organic matter.

    Originally I thought the crew was going to do some badly needed maintenance, but instead they just slashed the B Line. It will be interesting if the maintenance is ever done or the trail just keeps eroding so only the 2%íers can survive it.

  2. #2
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    This won't be a popular opinion but that line is a maintenance nightmare. If the kids are stoked on it maybe get the local high school mountain biking club to maintain it? I sure wouldn't want to include a trail like that into a managed system with limited resources for building new trail but like I said, my opinion probably won't be very popular.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    This won't be a popular opinion but that line is a maintenance nightmare. If the kids are stoked on it maybe get the local high school mountain biking club to maintain it? I sure wouldn't want to include a trail like that into a managed system with limited resources for building new trail but like I said, my opinion probably won't be very popular.
    ra I totally agree with you. A trail like that has the potential to have a large number of volunteers to Adopt It and do the on going maintenacec to keep it in great shape.

    Instead the land manager has made the decision to let it deteriorate each year after major rain periods with no volunteer maintenance. Narrow sections are going to heavily erode due to soft soils and fast moving water.

    The alignment could use immediate attention after each major rain event when the soil is easy to work with. The A-line that had the B-line reroute is so narrow it can only ridden at speed by 2%íers. Even they are not going to have a positive user experience IMHO.

  4. #4
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    Duplication

  5. #5
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    Got any video??
    Formerly mtnbykr©ô

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by #mtnbykr View Post
    Got any video??
    No video yet, do you need some?

  7. #7
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    No offense Switch but the B line sucked. Agreed that the A line needs work. But isn't that one of Sedona's beloved features? The wash ride and/or trails routed in washes or gullies. What's more sustainable than that?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    No offense Switch but the B line sucked. Agreed that the A line needs work. But isn't that one of Sedona's beloved features? The wash ride and/or trails routed in washes or gullies. What's more sustainable than that?
    OK rock you may have a good point. After you did your post I went back out to COF and took some pictures of the slashed B Line section and the poorly maintained A Line.

    I do agree the B Line had some alignment issues as it intersected the original COF trail. That intersection would need some work to make it flow nicely. but it might be less work than constantly having to do maintenance on the A Line.

    I am not sure why the USFS used live vegetation to slash the B Line, I guess acceptable when slashing B Lines.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Canyon of Fools B Line Shut DOWN-cof-line.jpg  

    Canyon of Fools B Line Shut DOWN-cof-b-line-slash.jpg  

    Canyon of Fools B Line Shut DOWN-cof-b-line-slash-2.jpg  


  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    No video yet, do you need some?
    Nope. I've rode it.
    Formerly mtnbykr©ô

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by #mtnbykr View Post
    Nope. I've rode it.
    Have you ridden it recently? I was wondering if any improvements have been made to improve the flow?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Have you ridden it recently? I was wondering if any improvements have been made to improve the flow?
    Something tells me you already know the answer. I'll just add that of all the adoptions and reroutes of user built trails this one is the best. The upper part of COF did not change the character at all and if anything added to the flow. It also has an A line and a B line. Both are fun.

    The reroute on Gunslinger was well done as well. Most probably don't remember the original alignment.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Something tells me you already know the answer. I'll just add that of all the adoptions and reroutes of user built trails this one is the best. The upper part of COF did not change the character at all and if anything added to the flow. It also has an A line and a B line. Both are fun.

    The reroute on Gunslinger was well done as well. Most probably don't remember the original alignment.
    I agree COF was a great adoption. I wish we knew who created that trail so we could give them credit for this awesome trail concept. 😀🚴🏻🇺🇸

  13. #13
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    Bump

  14. #14
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    WTF are you bumping up your BS for, the crap B line has been killed, live with it or go ride another trail where your skill level is more appropriate to. Your BS should have B lines on "1% trails" is getting real old, real fast, sadly I don't spread enough rep around it seems to give you your due.

    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Bump
    One day your life will flash before your eyes, will it be worth watching??

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    I agree COF was a great adoption. I wish we knew who created that trail so we could give them credit for this awesome trail concept. 
    Let me guess. Was it Traildoc, 50cents, Renegademtb, or Switchblade2?
    Veni vidi velo!

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Let me guess. Was it Traildoc, 50cents, Renegademtb, or Switchblade2?
    Velo I could also be pretty certain that you have never created a popular trail for mountain bikers to enjoy. Am I correct in that assumption?

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LyNx View Post
    WTF are you bumping up your BS for, the crap B line has been killed, live with it or go ride another trail where your skill level is more appropriate to. Your BS should have B lines on "1% trails" is getting real old, real fast, sadly I don't spread enough rep around it seems to give you your due.
    Just ignore him.. All you will get is a response with a question he will never acknowledge the answer too.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Just ignore him.. All you will get is a response with a question he will never acknowledge the answer too.
    Phillbo we have missed you over on the Passion thread. I am sure you would have had some very meaningful information to post in the thread.

  19. #19
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    Oh, I doubt it. I've never even visited the Passion section.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Velo I could also be pretty certain that you have never created a popular trail for mountain bikers to enjoy. Am I correct in that assumption?
    Answer my question first.
    Veni vidi velo!

  21. #21
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    Your question shall be answered with another question..
    Last edited by Phillbo; 01-07-2018 at 04:52 PM.

  22. #22
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    Hey Switcheroo. You aren't going to let me and Phillbo be right, are you? With your encyclopedic knowledge of Sedona trails, you have to know who built C of F. Or are you asking questions you already know the answer to. Begs the question, for what purpose? Not getting enough credit? I always assumed that trail was named after you, am I right?
    Veni vidi velo!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Hey Switcheroo. You aren't going to let me and Phillbo be right, are you? With your encyclopedic knowledge of Sedona trails, you have to know who built C of F. Or are you asking questions you already know the answer to. Begs the question, for what purpose? Not getting enough credit? I always assumed that trail was named after you, am I right?
    velo the person who gets credit for COF is one of the original Sedona pioneers. He is probably 74 or 75 years old now. We were on a typical Mt. Bike Heaven ride about 16 years ago coming out of Dawa onto Boyonton Pass rode. From there we would ride on the road over to the cattle tank. In the picture you can see the old historic trails around the tank. We would take those trails up to what is now Yucca and end up at Mescal.

    That area use to have a bunch of jeep roads that the teenage youth of Sedona would drive up to the Mescal slickrock area. Rather than taking the tank route the old guy talked the group into riding up COF to what is now Yucca then staying on the Jeep road we would end up at the Mescal slickrock shelf.

    The route by the tank had steep uphill sections so there was usually some hike-a-bike that wasn't fun. The climb up COF is much more gradual. I would estimate about 3' of soil has eroded from the upper/lower section that is barely rideable now due to the narrowing of the riding tread.

    As more riders got familiar with that route the wall rides began to appear. Plumber Phil was commandeered by Jennifer about five years ago to route the upper line. We caught him one day hiding behind a big dead tree clearing trees and brush from the banks. He had the secret volunteer agreement to work anywhere he thought best.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Canyon of Fools B Line Shut DOWN-cattle-tank.jpg  


  24. #24
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    Thank you for a straightforward answer. The history of trails is actually quite interesting, Sedona and elsewhere. Still wondering why you asked if you knew the answer. It makes some of us feel like we are being toyed with and want to poke back at you. You'll get a better response from the community if you show that you are interested in genuine dialogue. Clearly you have a passion for trailbuiding, but you usually come across as an a-hole with no respect for your reader. I recall reading a post by some guy named Traildoc back in 2009 and thinking, Who is this guy? What a douche! I think you may be the first fellow rider I ever called out on a public forum for bad behavior.

    Take this for what it's worth to you, Switch.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Thank you for a straightforward answer. The history of trails is actually quite interesting, Sedona and elsewhere. Still wondering why you asked if you knew the answer. It makes some of us feel like we are being toyed with and want to poke back at you. You'll get a better response from the community if you show that you are interested in genuine dialogue. Clearly you have a passion for trailbuiding, but you usually come across as an a-hole with no respect for your reader. I recall reading a post by some guy named Traildoc back in 2009 and thinking, Who is this guy? What a douche! I think you may be the first fellow rider I ever called out on a public forum for bad behavior.

    Take this for what it's worth to you, Switch.
    Velo I can assure you all the work I have done to provide an enjoyable riding experience for lesser skilled mountain bikers has way out weighed my disagreements with people like you.

    I have tons of friends from all over the world who understand the PROCESS, just because you have a different viewpoint doesnít mean the mountain bike community hasnít created great trails in many different destinations around the country.

    Having a good supply of fun well built trails and maintaining those trails is what makes a destination world class. In Sedona I believe we have a bunch of fun trails. Hopefully the users will keep them in good condition.

  26. #26
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    Trail day on HiLine Sat. https://www.vvcc.us/event-2726710

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    Velo I can assure you all the work I have done to provide an enjoyable riding experience for lesser skilled mountain bikers has way out weighed my disagreements with people like you.

    I have tons of friends from all over the world who understand the PROCESS, just because you have a different viewpoint doesnít mean the mountain bike community hasnít created great trails in many different destinations around the country.

    Having a good supply of fun well built trails and maintaining those trails is what makes a destination world class. In Sedona I believe we have a bunch of fun trails. Hopefully the users will keep them in good condition.
    Cool Switch. I would say that my viewpoint on these issues is still developing. I've spent most of the last 25 years in Bush Alaska where this trail-building drama does not exist. Salmon harvest allocations, wolf control, river access, trophy hunting, mining, subsistence rights, etc. Plenty of grist for the drama bros in all that, but not over trails. We just rode, basically where ever we could and wanted to.

    But wherever you live, a douche is a douche. Don't be one.
    Veni vidi velo!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post

    But wherever you live, a douche is a douche. Don't be one.

    Too late...

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Cool Switch. I would say that my viewpoint on these issues is still developing. I've spent most of the last 25 years in Bush Alaska where this trail-building drama does not exist. Salmon harvest allocations, wolf control, river access, trophy hunting, mining, subsistence rights, etc. Plenty of grist for the drama bros in all that, but not over trails. We just rode, basically where ever we could and wanted to.

    But wherever you live, a douche is a douche. Don't be one.
    velo I am what I am. I havenít changed my position on wanting well built mountain bike trails and wanting them maintained by the people who use them since day one.

    As far as the Alaskan thing goes I have personal experience that trail building is going on there also by people who want well built trails in their community. I have ridden such trails and helped construct and maintain them.

    The soil is mostly clay due to glacial presence previously. Lots of quick growing vegetation and lots of roots from tree growth. Building trail tread requires lots of vegetation removal. Maintenance is done with chain saws and industrial type mowers.

    Lots of fun if you are into making a great trail system. If you are lazy then there are not going to be any trails. Itís a choice.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    velo I am what I am. I havenít changed my position on wanting well built mountain bike trails and wanting them maintained by the people who use them since day one.

    As far as the Alaskan thing goes I have personal experience that trail building is going on there also by people who want well built trails in their community. I have ridden such trails and helped construct and maintain them.

    The soil is mostly clay due to glacial presence previously. Lots of quick growing vegetation and lots of roots from tree growth. Building trail tread requires lots of vegetation removal. Maintenance is done with chain saws and industrial type mowers.

    Lots of fun if you are into making a great trail system. If you are lazy then there are not going to be any trails. Itís a choice.
    I'm pretty sure you weren't in the Bush, but no matter. Where I lived we built trails by pointing the bike and pedaling. Dry, alpine tundra along the ridge tops were good places, as were gravel bars, abandoned ditches, beaches and old miner's routes. It took a lot of saddle time, and walking, so you couldn't be lazy. Creativity helped as well as knowlege of area history and traditional transportation routes. In the winter we followed the dog teams, the snowmobiles, windswept frozen rivers, game trails, and sea ice.

    So there were places to ride. What was absent was the drama generated by attention-seeking primadonnas such as yourself. BTW I have never tried to change your views. You're entitled to them. I agree with you sometimes. It's the trolling, baiting, posturing, lying, distorting, grandstanding, and divisiveness I take issue with. In the eight years I have been visiting the Arizona forum, through your four bans from mtbr, five user names, and two prosecutions by the USFS, you have not changed one bit.

    Clearly, you are what you are.
    Veni vidi velo!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    I'm pretty sure you weren't in the Bush, but no matter. Where I lived we built trails by pointing the bike and pedaling. Dry, alpine tundra along the ridge tops were good places, as were gravel bars, abandoned ditches, beaches and old miner's routes. It took a lot of saddle time, and walking, so you couldn't be lazy. Creativity helped as well as knowlege of area history and traditional transportation routes. In the winter we followed the dog teams, the snowmobiles, windswept frozen rivers, game trails, and sea ice.

    So there were places to ride. What was absent was the drama generated by attention-seeking primadonnas such as yourself. BTW I have never tried to change your views. You're entitled to them. I agree with you sometimes. It's the trolling, baiting, posturing, lying, distorting, grandstanding, and divisiveness I take issue with. In the eight years I have been visiting the Arizona forum, through your four bans from mtbr, five user names, and two prosecutions by the USFS, you have not changed one bit.

    Clearly, you are what you are.
    velo read your post, you sound like the American media trying to destroy our current President. I would hope that the building of great mountain bike trails will be looked back as a worthy PASSION. You are constantly trying to paint me as a terrible person, if it makes you feel good about yourself so be it.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchblade2 View Post
    velo read your post, you sound like the American media trying to destroy our current President. I would hope that the building of great mountain bike trails will be looked back as a worthy PASSION. You are constantly trying to paint me as a terrible person, if it makes you feel good about yourself so be it.
    True to form. Fake patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel. If that's your position you are beyond help.

    And no, I don't feel good about it.
    Veni vidi velo!

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