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  1. #1
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    Can An Incision Be a Positive Trail Feature?????

    Some of you may have read the PDF file rockman posted about the trail study done by a professor at NAU in 2006 or 2007. When I read the article I was so stupid I couldn't figure out what the study was about. When rockman finally set me straight on an incision being the depth of the trail I have really tried to evaluate the trails I ride from a more informed perspective.

    Now when I ride a trail I am constantly evaluating my riding experience based on the trail incision I encounter on the ride. Bend, Oregon has been a great place to evaluate trails since they have sooo many. There are old trails in Bend built by clueless trail builders and there are new trails in Bend built by the mountain bike community.

    The old trails obviously are the ones with the most incision because they have very few grade reversals and they have had tens of thousands of users on them. For the most part they are total environmental nightmares, but some sections will have to be re-routed in the future.

    Does any viewer who reads this post know if using the incision as a drainage mechanism is a worthy practice when doing trail re-routes on deeply rutted trails with a downhill component? Seems like it might work in some of the sections I was blasting down.

    TD

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    It would seem so on some of the recognized FS trails here in Flagstaff, we have super long fall line sections of trail that are constantly eroded by monsoon storms. Deep 2 plus feet ruts are formed on some of the system trails but no one is crying about the erosion issues on those trails, only when the trails are used by down hill specific riding do they complain. It seems to me now that they really don't care about erosion and just don't like the mountain bikers that like going down hill.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by whoopwhoop View Post
    whoo:

    If I posted this on the trail advocacy forum ra would have never seen the post and given the exact response I was looking for. In Bend when I told one of the major players in the whole trail process here he didn't care much about incision either.

    It seemed like a big deal in the study, but I guess it depends on the land manager in each area. On a fall line trail I think it could be used as a drainage for a re-routed trail if the land manager was getting a lot of flack from users.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Now when I ride a trail I am constantly evaluating my riding experience based on the trail incision I encounter on the ride. Bend, Oregon has been a great place to evaluate trails since they have sooo many. There are old trails in Bend built by clueless trail builders and there are new trails in Bend built by the mountain bike community.

    The old trails obviously are the ones with the most incision because they have very few grade reversals and they have had tens of thousands of users on them. For the most part they are total environmental nightmares, but some sections will have to be re-routed in the future.
    What in Bend would you classify as a "total environmental nightmare?" There are hundreds of miles of well maintained trails. There are a few problem areas but is a very small percentage. I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from here.
    Only two infinite things exist: the universe and stupidity. And, I am unsure of the universe
    - Albert Einstein

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from here.
    We've been doing this from years. Don't hold your breath.

    (TD, have you encountered the wolf yet?)
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    What in Bend would you classify as a "total environmental nightmare?" There are hundreds of miles of well maintained trails. There are a few problem areas but is a very small percentage. I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from here.
    DJ Giggity:

    I agree with you that there are hundreds of miles of well maintained trails especially those built by the mountain bikers, but as you said there are some trails that have problems due to their original routing not being done with numerous grade reversals.

    One trail that is a total blast to ride is the South Fork Trail, it was not built by the mountain biking group and has some sustainable issues that create a higher need of maintenance than a trail like Mrazek or Tiddlywinks.

    Woops is a well laid out trail and is very sustainable, but you might agree it has taken a huge amount of effort to build and needs a crew like the FGR to continue with the lots of ongoing maintenance to keep it in good shape for the jumping crowd.

    The reason why Bend is so successful is that the FS allows the mountain bikers to build and maintain their trails. When you allow a group of people to build a well laid out trail they automatically buy into the long term maintenance of the trail.

    It is a win win situation.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Giggity View Post
    What in Bend would you classify as a "total environmental nightmare?" There are hundreds of miles of well maintained trails. There are a few problem areas but is a very small percentage. I'm trying to figure out where you are coming from here.
    DJ:

    We are still in Bend. I had planned to leave several days ago, but this is a trail builders paradise if you want a huge amount of trails to ride and see what works and what doesn't. Here is a section of trail on Funner that the trail builders took a terrible incision and modified it to a fun twisty section of trail.

    Unfortunately the blurred picture of my wife doesn't do this section justice.

    Since trail maintenance to promote long term sustainability and improved rideablility besides incision repair I am also very much interested in biker friendly water diverters.

    In Sedona we have some of the wost water diverters I have ever ridden in the whole Bend, Oregon trail system. Whoever is training the trail maintenance crews here is doing a great job. Hopefully I can get some pictures to demonstrate what they are doing here.

    Since a lot of the trails are biker only they put in a set of doubles that you can either roll or jump that work great. Never while riding here have I come across a diverter that after riding through it I felt WTF.
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    Last edited by traildoc; 08-17-2012 at 05:01 PM.

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