Results 1 to 62 of 62
  1. #1
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232

    Brown's Ranch Trailhead Grand Opening - Sat. Oct. 19th - Scottsdale

    The official grand opening of Scottsdale’s Brown's Ranch trailhead is next Saturday, October 19th starting at 8:00 am with the Mayor speaking at 9:00 am. There will be an organized mountain bike ride and hike at approximately 10:00 am.

    This new section of the McDowell Sonoran Preserve immediately adds 60 miles of non-motorized, multi-use trails to Scottsdale (hike, bike, equestrian). Approximately 100 miles of additional trails are planned for the northern section of the Preserve within the next few years. Eventually trails south of Dynamite, from Tom’s Thumb trailhead will link the northern Preserve with the southern section and McDowell Mt. Park.

    The new trails are beginner to intermediate. Most are rolling hills on crushed granite with a few extended climbs and minor rocks on the trails. There are a few sandy wash crossings.

    The scenery is FANTASTIC - a true Sonoran Desert experience with huge Saguaro cactus and fantastic rock formations. The trails loop Granite Mtn, Cholla Mtn, Brown's Mtn, Cone Mtn and Balanced Rock. If you like Pemberton, you will love this place!

    There will be no onsite parking Saturday (any other day there is plenty of free parking). Parking will be available at the Pinnacle Peak Patio restaurant, 10426 E. Jomax Rd. Shuttles to the trailhead will be provided for walkers/hikers, or it is a 2 mile ride north on Alma School to the trailhead.

    Basic directions - from Pima Rd go east on Dynamite to Alma School. The trailhead is north (left) on Alma School. BUT, the parking Saturday is south (right) on Alma School to Jomax (right).

    Hope to see you all out there!

    Mark

    Brown's Ranch Trailhead Grand Opening - Sat. Oct. 19th - Scottsdale-brownsranch.jpg

  2. #2
    mtbr member
    Reputation: broncbuster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    854
    Good deal, always liked that area.

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    231
    I have ridden sections of this trail a few times now, and I thought it was one of the nicer trails I have found. A little something for everybody it seemed to me. And they are right, the scenery is second to none. Saw a tarantula AND a gila monster on the same ride.
    Without heroes, we are all plain people, and don't know how far we can go. Bernard Malamud

  4. #4
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metalaficionado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,994
    So I went riding there few weeks ago and kind of enjoyed the Cone Mtn Trail loop, the climb up the Brown's is mandatory to add any sort of ascent cred, hated the cholla mtn loop - it was designed to smash MTB face on cactus. Granite MTB loop was my favorite. I had to return on 136th express and Powerline - which suuuuuuuuuuuuuck, no fun just pure grindfest.

    ... at one point during the ride I got lost. I think I ended up on an OLD trail 14 or 18 going west.... AND IT WAS IT ****ING AWESOME... it was old moto trail with rolls and berms and it was best ****ing five minutes of the whole entire ride.

    and now this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Approximately 100 miles of additional trails are planned for the northern section of the Preserve within the next few years.



    WHY Scottsdale, leave the those ****ing trails alone !

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,329
    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    ... at one point during the ride I got lost. I think I ended up on an OLD trail 14 or 18 going west.... AND IT WAS IT ****ING AWESOME... it was old moto trail with rolls and berms and it was best ****ing five minutes of the whole entire ride.

    and now this !!!!!!!!!!!!!!




    WHY Scottsdale, leave the those ****ing trails alone !
    As much as everyone wants to look at the old trails through their rose-colored glasses....a lot of the old trails also sucked. Most likely because everyone could just make any ole trails they wanted...the Arizona State Trust was just an absentee owner.

    I like the new trails so far. Maybe I just never knew of the awesome secret MTB trails that were at P&D before the new trails were cut. If memory serves, I just remember a lot of sand, sand, rutted out moto trails....with sand. After a few visits, I felt P&D wasn't really worth visiting....and maybe that's the way the "locals" wanted it.

    I for one welcome our new trail-building overlords!

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation: metalaficionado's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,994
    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    As much as everyone wants to look at the old trails through their rose-colored glasses....a lot of the old trails also sucked. Most likely because everyone could just make any ole trails they wanted...the Arizona State Trust was just an absentee owner.

    I like the new trails so far. Maybe I just never knew of the awesome secret MTB trails that were at P&D before the new trails were cut. If memory serves, I just remember a lot of sand, sand, rutted out moto trails....with sand. After a few visits, I felt P&D wasn't really worth visiting....and maybe that's the way the "locals" wanted it.

    I for one welcome our new trail-building overlords!
    das iz what I am sayin... the sheep got their kitty littered disney routes
    leave the rest alone, save money, preserve the historic moto trails

  7. #7
    ...
    Reputation: dtownmtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,270
    Quote Originally Posted by PhxChem View Post
    As much as everyone wants to look at the old trails through their rose-colored glasses....a lot of the old trails also sucked.
    Very true. The old trails were a combination of suck and awesome. The new trails are just uniformly 'nice'.

    For the demographic they are going after, the new trails are perfect. And no more getting lost since every intersection is signed. I'll also give them credit for routing the trails through some of the most scenic areas - really nice. This is an excellent system for beginners and hikers.

    However, I'm one of the folks who miss the whoops and the berms and the super fun sections that are gone - even though you had to slog through sand or walk up a rutted hill to get to them. To me, the crap was worth wading through to get to the gold.

    But that is the past. I expect this place to be VERY popular once word gets out. Fortunately AZ has many, many other options for those who like their riding a little more on the wild side.

  8. #8
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RajunCajun44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,787
    anything is better than the spaghetti with kitty litter sauce that was once Pima and Dynamite... I might actually go out there now and ride...

  9. #9
    DFMBA.org
    Reputation: MTBeing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,749

    Brown's Ranch Trailhead Grand Opening - Sat. Oct. 19th - Scottsdale

    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    anything is better than the spaghetti with kitty litter sauce that was once Pima and Dynamite... I might actually go out there now and ride...
    Agreed. The moto whoop-dee-doos were sucksville the whole way.
    Please donate to IMBA or your local IMBA chapter. It's trail karma.

  10. #10
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post

    For the demographic they are going after, the new trails are perfect.
    its a good complement to the harder stuff in the McDs. Need to get out there again, add some b-lines in the boulders.

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    249
    I enjoyed it. Did the out lying loop clockwise to bootlegger then back to Vaquero to the trailhead. Its a fun fast ride.

  12. #12
    livin' the dream......
    Reputation: tjkm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,669
    Cholla,

    There are a few b-lines that they left alone, which is a fun surprise. They also left two trails 'as they were' and just slapped new signs on them. I've said this before, they put in too many trails in this first phase. Most of the trails south of the power line and east of 118th st, flat out suck. The exception might be, and I have not ridden it yet, is Whiskey Bottle from Dixileta Trail toward Fasefield Mtn trail head. The others, IMO will eventually get over grown from lack of traffic, these are just too far for hikers from Browns Ranch, and I just don't see the Fasefield Mtn trail head being that heavily used.

    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    its a good complement to the harder stuff in the McDs. Need to get out there again, add some b-lines in the boulders.

  13. #13
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    Equestrian usage from the horse properties east of 136th.

    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm View Post
    The others, IMO will eventually get over grown from lack of traffic, these are just too far for hikers from Browns Ranch, and I just don't see the Fasefield Mtn trail head being that heavily used.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RajunCajun44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,787
    i rode it tonight... these trails are definitely an outstanding novice ride .... and a good relaxing ride for the experienced... they did a great job in my opinion... it may not have the cardio climbs I want... but, for those wanting to get in shape or just starting out, its a great area...

  15. #15
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    Did you have a chance to climb Brown's Mountain? I like coming up the back side from the west. Some HAB for me over the top!

    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    i rode it tonight... these trails are definitely an outstanding novice ride .... and a good relaxing ride for the experienced... they did a great job in my opinion... it may not have the cardio climbs I want... but, for those wanting to get in shape or just starting out, its a great area...

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RajunCajun44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
    Did you have a chance to climb Brown's Mountain? I like coming up the back side from the west. Some HAB for me over the top!
    of course I tried it if you know me, I love to climb or at least try to climb... the steepness and length of the climb was not an issue... it was the tight switchbacks that made me have to stop... but I was able to get back on the bike quickly and continue climbing...

    Another thing I noticed near Browns Mtn was there must be a family of skunks living around there... man the smell was strong last night...

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    25
    I went up and rode it a couple times this week and logged about 30 miles in all. The only other time I had ridden in that area was the McDowell Sonoran Challenge 18 months ago -- suffice it to say I never bothered to go back. I like it better now, though -- they did a nice job with the place.

    I agree with pretty much everything that's said above. It's a very mellow riding area, which could be super-fast except that most of the corners are off-camber and full of slippery kitty litter. With cholla at the apex and outside of every turn (or so it seemed whenever I started to lose the front), and the typical wash-switchbacks tend to interrupt the flow a lot. But it's a nice antidote to the super-rocky choss more typical around here, so I might go back again when I get sick of knocking my teeth out.

    -If, as discussed above, you wanna experience some of the whoops and berms of the old motox trails, Maverick - my fave little stretch
    -Don't bother with Brown's unless you like to climb; the descent isn't worth it
    -Avoid the power line road at all costs; it sucks. And it won't save you any time.
    -Do yourself a favor and have some tread on your tires. My rear was knackered, which made things "exciting" at times.

    A good tour might go something like this:
    -Ranch trail to Cone Mtn Trail around the west side of Cone mountain
    -Go North on Uppper Ranch and hang a right on Brown Mtn Trail, go up and over Brown's Mtn (W to E)
    -Cut over to Maverick
    -Up Cholla, East down Branding Iron and Granite Mtn Loop
    -West on Balanced Rock and then choose you poison back to the trailhead (avoiding Powerline Rd)
    -The views are gorgeous, so screw Strava and stop to take a pic or two

    I didn't make it West of Granite Mtn loop of south of Powerline Rd, though. Dark chased me out both times.

  18. #18
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    Excellent review!

    One alternate - from the parking lot head south on the pavement, then right (west) on Hackamore Trail, take that around to connect to Cone Mt. It's an excellent warm up trail with great views.

    West side of Granite Mt Loop is fun from north to south.

  19. #19
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    The Brown's Ranch Trailhead will close at 1:00pm today to set up for the grand opening tomorrow.

    The Granite Mt trailhead is open. From Dynamite take 136th St north 2 miles, the parking lot and trailhead are directly under the big power lines. There is no water or facilities at this trailhead.

  20. #20
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    249
    I will be up there tomorrow at the grand opening with my employer, the SFD, from 8-noon I believe

  21. #21
    livin' the dream......
    Reputation: tjkm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,669
    I have yet to encounter horses out there. Just evidence that they were there.........

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    25
    Indeed. I am not too proud to say I have learned that horse apples provide better traction than decomposed granite....

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    427
    Ya know, I've ridden Brown's Ranch before it was a preserve in the early nineties on both my dirt bike and mountain bike.

    I continued to ride there on my dirt bike until the rest of P&D was closed off to motorized use.

    I rode out there again on my mountain bike in June, shortly after they opened the "new" trail head.

    It was upsetting to me to see what they've done to that area. No, let me be more specific ... it made me want to throw up!

    Creating this "plastic" desert experience for people who's time is best spent at the mall? Really?

    From the landscaped trail sides with drip irrigation, to the signs about scorpions to keep the idiots scared and on the trail, I think it's disgusting.

    You can tell exactly when you leave their manicured little area because the trails get fun again. Yes, with whoops and berms that were made by dirt bike tires.

    To think that they're going to run their trail flattening machine through the rest of riding history out there is just criminal as far as I'm concerned.
    Last edited by TurtleGerl; 10-24-2013 at 08:54 PM.

  24. #24
    livin' the dream......
    Reputation: tjkm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,669
    TurtleGel - The trail building starts again in November with another 50 miles going in. I HOPE they do a better job, as *most* of the new stuff has no flow, and makes about 50 turns in a half mile. I do like riding Cholla Mtn ---Branding Iron---Grantie mtn east to west ( I might have my mtns mixed up). I also like Maverick, Vaquero, Wrangler, Rustler and part of Cone Mtn. There are some new trails that are just awful, and should be allowed to grow over and go back to a natural state.

  25. #25
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by tjkm View Post
    TurtleGel - The trail building starts again in November with another 50 miles going in. I HOPE they do a better job, as *most* of the new stuff has no flow, and makes about 50 turns in a half mile. I do like riding Cholla Mtn ---Branding Iron---Grantie mtn east to west ( I might have my mtns mixed up). I also like Maverick, Vaquero, Wrangler, Rustler and part of Cone Mtn. There are some new trails that are just awful, and should be allowed to grow over and go back to a natural state.
    They should just give what's already there some loving with some reroutes for the super sandy areas and close off some of the spaghetti.

    None of that area is super techy to begin with. Why dumb it down?

    Those trails already have names. Keep some history.

  26. #26
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5,820
    Murphy's Trail

  27. #27
    Give it a crank
    Reputation: Mtn-Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,995
    They obviously had hikers in mind first, horses second, wildlife 3rd, insects 4th, desert plants 5th, birdwatchers 6th, trail workers 7th, grand opening guests 8th, and it does look like they added cyclists, oh wait, those are mountain bikers.

    Still, I'll take it as is because the land could have easily turned into housing developments, we all get to enjoy it instead, who could possibly complain. I'm fine with the new trails too because there just aren't many other places around here where you can take beginners for a really fun and scenic ride and not get beat up doing it. It's a great addition to all the riding we already have, and if you want the old trails, there's plenty still left, at least for now.

    My first impression the first time I rode the new trails was the same as the moto trail lovers, I thought P&D was all gone. Looking at the map you can see there's plenty of the old trails still left.


  28. #28
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    OK, here you go, City of Scottsdale is asking for feedback from trail users of the new north section. Pease take time to provide thoughtful feedback and suggestions.

    Trails North of Dynamite Survey

  29. #29
    Meatbomb
    Reputation: Phillbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    5,820
    Question #2 appears to be a loaded question.. If i only ride the area I still have to rank Hiking , Equestrian etc.... Activities that I do not do in the area.

  30. #30
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
    OK, here you go, City of Scottsdale is asking for feedback from trail users of the new north section. Pease take time to provide thoughtful feedback and suggestions.

    Trails North of Dynamite Survey
    Thank you!

  31. #31
    livin' the dream......
    Reputation: tjkm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    1,669
    Thanks for the link. Question two is odd, as I have to rank that I do equestrian activities even though I don't partake in the horse gig. I gave an honest assessment and it was not all bad. I hope the next phase has more flow to it!!

  32. #32
    Dirt Bike Craig
    Reputation: FMX_DBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    455
    not sure if this is the right place but I saw some moto tracks on the Granite Mtn loop today that weren't there last Saturday. East side of the loop. Seemed like they were pretty conscious not to tear up the trail thankfully
    Check out my photography on RedBubble http://www.redbubble.com/people/fmxdbc

  33. #33
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    Thanks. There are still some moto X bikes that sneak in to the Preserve, but the numbers are going down. The City has a full time person on site at Brown's Ranch and we do MTB trail checks almost daily (we need more volunteers, see my sig). You will also see quad tracks some times and those are from the City staff doing trail checks or repairs.

    Quote Originally Posted by FMX_DBC View Post
    not sure if this is the right place but I saw some moto tracks on the Granite Mtn loop today that weren't there last Saturday. East side of the loop. Seemed like they were pretty conscious not to tear up the trail thankfully

  34. #34
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    4
    Thanks for bringing up an important point! The COS has acknowledged there will be more use from mtbr's in the 2nd and 3rd phases and will consider that when building these trails. There are good things happening that will have a positive impact in building those trails for mountain bikers and the survey is a great place to send your comments in. Don't get hung up on the form format . . . Just send in your feedback.

    We have an incredible bonus in that we don't have to ride far to find more challenging trails by riding west of the Preserve boundary (south of Legends) and into the Tonto. Those trails are NOT part of the Preserve and hopefully will remain as there are for a long time. There is GREAT riding up there. Some of the more extreme complaints come from those who have not ridden the areas I just cited, so get out there and have fun and appreciate what is still there.
    Last edited by CaroleB; 10-31-2013 at 05:57 PM.

  35. #35
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    231
    I don't understand all the angst, I've ridden these trails and enjoyed them very much. I like K Trail, I like Granite Basin, I like a lot of trails. If I don't like 'em, I don't ride 'em. Seems simple to me, if they don't do it for you, go ride somewhere else! There are a lot of choices in the Valley, we're lucky in that regard. I wasn't one of them, but a lot of people busted their a$$es to put this trail network together, seems we could show a little more appreciation.
    Without heroes, we are all plain people, and don't know how far we can go. Bernard Malamud

  36. #36
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RajunCajun44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,787
    Quote Originally Posted by scooter_dude View Post
    I don't understand all the angst, I've ridden these trails and enjoyed them very much. I like K Trail, I like Granite Basin, I like a lot of trails. If I don't like 'em, I don't ride 'em. Seems simple to me, if they don't do it for you, go ride somewhere else! There are a lot of choices in the Valley, we're lucky in that regard. I wasn't one of them, but a lot of people busted their a$$es to put this trail network together, seems we could show a little more appreciation.
    for what its worth, coming from someone who has mountain biked since 1992, I appreciate all the efforts they made... Great trails... maybe not my cup of tea... but so what... These trails will please A LOT of other mountain bikers and that is wonderful by me...

  37. #37
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    Thanks guys, you are right. The City of Scottsdale has designated this a Preserve (not a park). The primary purpose is the protection of the natural Sonoran desert and wildlife in an urban boundary location - this is a very rare combination. We are fortunate to have access!

    I took 6 middle age newbies out yesterday for 13 miles. We ended the ride on Maverick and they were thrilled with the whole experience. They want to ride out there every week and they will buy bikes, gear, etc. This is a good thing for MTBing!

  38. #38
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkP View Post
    Thanks guys, you are right. The City of Scottsdale has designated this a Preserve (not a park). The primary purpose is the protection of the natural Sonoran desert and wildlife in an urban boundary location...
    yeah...but...$4M trailhead facility?
    'preserve' is the party line you get from anyone in the Preserve Commission or City, and its extremely selective as to what is preserved vs. what ridiculous amount of dollars constitutes 'facilitating access'. Hypocritical, frankly. How many sculpted nature trails or amphitheaters do you need amongst the various THs all within a few miles of eachother? Gateway TH has government largesse dripping all over it. Brown's Ranch TH cost $4M, it existed just fine as a simple dead end not very long ago. Why isnt every TH like 104th st, a dirt parking area with a trash can? Why the need to pave and build at the 128th St. entrance to Tom's Thumb? Westworld TH has 2 manicured horse pens...right next to a private equestrian facility, massive parking, massive bathroom structure....but we can't build a couple dirt jumps in the Brown's Ranch entrance area? They are allowing some jeep tours, but we can't have a few tech lines? The most interesting trails off Brown's Ranch, and others like Landslide, are closed to bikes? Dont ever forget that the Preserve is geared toward hikers and beginners, not advanced bikers.

    Maybe dtownmtb will someday get some answers as to why all his ideas about trails got thrown out - he knows that area better than anyone.
    Don't drink the BS you get from the city or the Preserve authorities. Yes they are doing some good things and its a nice set of trails, but its absolutely political. I don't much bother with meetings etc anymore, cause imo it won't make much difference. The Scottsdale Planners and Preserve Commission have their plan to execute, which gives a nod toward mtbrs but does not really satisfy them.

    MarkP - perhaps you can push on that and get some answers? Not just parrot their party line. No offense, just saying, you have hit the Brown's ranch targeted demographic with your friend, but even those guys will get bored with simple trails in a year if they actually ride weekly. If they don't, just drop a lot of coin and ride a few times a year...congrats they ride as well as my 7yo. what is so good about that for the rest of us?

    I live down the street from 104th, I pay my taxes.

  39. #39
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    yeah...but...$4M trailhead facility?
    'preserve' is the party line you get from anyone in the Preserve Commission or City, and its extremely selective as to what is preserved vs. what ridiculous amount of dollars constitutes 'facilitating access'. Hypocritical, frankly. How many sculpted nature trails or amphitheaters do you need amongst the various THs all within a few miles of eachother? Gateway TH has government largesse dripping all over it. Brown's Ranch TH cost $4M, it existed just fine as a simple dead end not very long ago. Why isnt every TH like 104th st, a dirt parking area with a trash can? Why the need to pave and build at the 128th St. entrance to Tom's Thumb? Westworld TH has 2 manicured horse pens...right next to a private equestrian facility, massive parking, massive bathroom structure....but we can't build a couple dirt jumps in the Brown's Ranch entrance area? They are allowing some jeep tours, but we can't have a few tech lines? The most interesting trails off Brown's Ranch, and others like Landslide, are closed to bikes? Dont ever forget that the Preserve is geared toward hikers and beginners, not advanced bikers.

    Maybe dtownmtb will someday get some answers as to why all his ideas about trails got thrown out - he knows that area better than anyone.
    Don't drink the BS you get from the city or the Preserve authorities. Yes they are doing some good things and its a nice set of trails, but its absolutely political. I don't much bother with meetings etc anymore, cause imo it won't make much difference. The Scottsdale Planners and Preserve Commission have their plan to execute, which gives a nod toward mtbrs but does not really satisfy them.

    MarkP - perhaps you can push on that and get some answers? Not just parrot their party line. No offense, just saying, you have hit the Brown's ranch targeted demographic with your friend, but even those guys will get bored with simple trails in a year if they actually ride weekly. If they don't, just drop a lot of coin and ride a few times a year...congrats they ride as well as my 7yo. what is so good about that for the rest of us?

    I live down the street from 104th, I pay my taxes.
    Scottsdale in this upcoming election has over 200M in bond issues before its voters. One of the questions includes about 10 projects, among them are improvements to Westworld trail and Indian Bend MUP areas. The effect of these bonds would be to require almost a 30% increase in property taxes. The basic arguments for or against the bonds are: citizens of Scottsdale spending a lot on their community, embracing 'big government' solutions to making a better city vs. less involvement of the government in our city, more private investment, less civic projects.

    I voted for bonds, because I don't mind paying a huge membership fee if I get good amenities for it. Its up to us to make noise and push the city planners and Preserve Commission to hear us. That is why i think jumps built in the Preserve illegally, nightriding, BIG group rides etc all are important to rattle the cage a little and make them appreciate that its not all about hikers, old people, and noobs. The City of Scottsdale's median age is almost 10 years above the national median. There are plenty of spaces and funds for mtb-specific topics, its the mindset of the old flower-sniffers that we need to shake up.

  40. #40
    ...
    Reputation: dtownmtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,270
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    yeah...but...$4M trailhead facility?
    'preserve' is the party line you get from anyone in the Preserve Commission or City, and its extremely selective as to what is preserved vs. what ridiculous amount of dollars constitutes 'facilitating access'. Hypocritical, frankly. How many sculpted nature trails or amphitheaters do you need amongst the various THs all within a few miles of eachother? Gateway TH has government largesse dripping all over it. Brown's Ranch TH cost $4M, it existed just fine as a simple dead end not very long ago. Why isnt every TH like 104th st, a dirt parking area with a trash can? Why the need to pave and build at the 128th St. entrance to Tom's Thumb? Westworld TH has 2 manicured horse pens...right next to a private equestrian facility, massive parking, massive bathroom structure....but we can't build a couple dirt jumps in the Brown's Ranch entrance area? They are allowing some jeep tours, but we can't have a few tech lines? The most interesting trails off Brown's Ranch, and others like Landslide, are closed to bikes? Dont ever forget that the Preserve is geared toward hikers and beginners, not advanced bikers.

    Maybe dtownmtb will someday get some answers as to why all his ideas about trails got thrown out - he knows that area better than anyone.
    Don't drink the BS you get from the city or the Preserve authorities. Yes they are doing some good things and its a nice set of trails, but its absolutely political. I don't much bother with meetings etc anymore, cause imo it won't make much difference. The Scottsdale Planners and Preserve Commission have their plan to execute, which gives a nod toward mtbrs but does not really satisfy them.

    MarkP - perhaps you can push on that and get some answers? Not just parrot their party line. No offense, just saying, you have hit the Brown's ranch targeted demographic with your friend, but even those guys will get bored with simple trails in a year if they actually ride weekly. If they don't, just drop a lot of coin and ride a few times a year...congrats they ride as well as my 7yo. what is so good about that for the rest of us?

    I live down the street from 104th, I pay my taxes.
    I'm not going to press for answers as to why this went down differently that I thought it would. I expect that Epicrider's explanation here: Pima and Dynamite Trails Survey is likely pretty close to how it happened.
    Instead, I'll take this as a lesson on "how things work" in Scottsdale.

    Personally, I think the new trailhead is pretty darned nice. Yeah, it was pricey, but they apparently have the money for it. I'll mostly use the Fraesfield or 136th entrance anyhow.

    Regardless of how Brown's Ranch went down, I still think it is awesome that the citizens of Scottsdale voted to pay higher sales tax - just so that the city could by and preserve these areas. I read "preserve" as not putting McMansions on the land. The city is supposed to buy the remaining parcel that they don't have in the McDowells this month. That will enable them to carve out a trail from the top of Sunrise over to the Ftn. Hills trails - thus bypassing the jerkwads in Hidden Hills. I even saw a suggestion that they would extend Quartz up and over Thompson Peak. Now that would be a hella climb. So, good stuff there.

  41. #41
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,094
    I do see the point that as a purist, all we need is the desert and some trails....we don't need a fancy LEED trailhead facility, and see that as a waste. However, I can see the other point that by building these entrances into the desert, folks that don't normally feast on the outdoors like many of us are given a nice easy entry into it. It draws them in....and if just a few of them become as passionate about the outdoors as many of us, this is perhaps a net gain. We can discuss how to price this, and I think it would be interesting to quantify it over beers vs. qualify it as I have here....but in the end, I don't think we'll ever know the true value in dollars of one persons passion and love for the outdoors which translates into a better society through that persons positive and beneficial actions. I think we are all extremely thankful that this land has been set aside.

  42. #42
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I do see the point that as a purist, all we need is the desert and some trails....we don't need a fancy LEED trailhead facility, and see that as a waste. However, I can see the other point that by building these entrances into the desert, folks that don't normally feast on the outdoors like many of us are given a nice easy entry into it. It draws them in....and if just a few of them become as passionate about the outdoors as many of us, this is perhaps a net gain. We can discuss how to price this, and I think it would be interesting to quantify it over beers vs. qualify it as I have here....but in the end, I don't think we'll ever know the true value in dollars of one persons passion and love for the outdoors which translates into a better society through that persons positive and beneficial actions. I think we are all extremely thankful that this land has been set aside.
    yes i agree with you, and with dtownmtb about all the positives, its hard not too, as Scottsdale has done some very very nice things...but its also somewhat turning a blind eye to the warts on the plan. What if 200M in bond issues were only 150M, property tax change only needed to be 22%? There is a separate proposal on this November ballot for school overrides -- what if the $4M for the Brown's Ranch TH went to the schools? Its easy to spend someone else's money, and its easy to vote for spending when you *will* get some nice things out of it and your portion is comingled wtih 300,000 other people's portion. Its up to the political leaders to be judicious with our dollars, and I do not believe that is the case here, at least as much as it could be. Yeah its not $500M for a non-functioning website, but, its still over the top.

    Maad I also dont agree with you about the easy access inspiring new passion, for 2 reasons. 1). There are already many existing, easy access points. One of the bond line items is to add 200 parking spaces to Pinnacle Peak park, just down the street. 128th St. is also just down the street. How much do we need to throw at redundant THs? 2). are we responsible for sticking the needle in someone's arm? If you live in Scottsdale, and are not already taking advantage of the THs or the amazing views from the MUPs, the views from Scottsdale Sports Complex or Talking Stick fields or Mountain View Park, from Horizon Park or all the existing trails, the amazing aquatic facilities, the views out your door... how much more prodding do you need? I don't feel the need to pay for it to the extent of $4M so you can wake up and smell meat-space. My neighbors across the street have 2 boys, and i've NEVER seen them go outside. We took our kids for a walk up Paradise Wash in spring, ducking in off the road through McDowell Mtn Ranch with the underpass a few min north of where Paradise hits Quartz, our kids went wild hiking through the boulders and playing in the wildflowers. To each his own, but, there is already loads of access.

    Fact is, mtbrs got left out of this, as simply more of the herd for wide, graded trails. Brown's Ranch is fun, I'm planning to ride it this weekend, but its also limited and expensive. They built horse-specific parking, they built hitching posts!!!! hitching posts to go with the special-parking areas for people who can afford their horses and giant trailers? If its raining handouts in Scottsdale, how come MTBRs got so little?

  43. #43
    ...
    Reputation: dtownmtb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,270
    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    what if the $4M for the Brown's Ranch TH went to the schools?
    I'm pretty sure that all of the money spent on the preserve is from a 1% addition to the sales tax that is targeted as just such things. It would not be right (or legal, I'd think) to spend it on other things like schools - despite how worthy they are.

    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    Maad I also dont agree with you about the easy access inspiring new passion, for 2 reasons. 1). There are already many existing, easy access points. One of the bond line items is to add 200 parking spaces to Pinnacle Peak park, just down the street. 128th St. is also just down the street. How much do we need to throw at redundant THs? 2). are we responsible for sticking the needle in someone's arm? If you live in Scottsdale, and are not already taking advantage of the THs or the amazing views from the MUPs, the views from Scottsdale Sports Complex or Talking Stick fields or Mountain View Park, from Horizon Park or all the existing trails, the amazing aquatic facilities, the views out your door... how much more prodding do you need? I don't feel the need to pay for it to the extent of $4M so you can wake up and smell meat-space. My neighbors across the street have 2 boys, and i've NEVER seen them go outside. We took our kids for a walk up Paradise Wash in spring, ducking in off the road through McDowell Mtn Ranch with the underpass a few min north of where Paradise hits Quartz, our kids went wild hiking through the boulders and playing in the wildflowers. To each his own, but, there is already loads of access.
    Not sure if I can go along with you on this. First, I think that a lot of the reason behind the fancy trailheads is for the tourists. They are pretty important to the local economy and I suspect that these expenditures are mostly aimed at them.

    Also, maybe it seems pathetic to have to drag someone to a fancy trailhead to make them start to appreciate what was there all along, but I'd bet that it does sometimes happen that way. It is sad, but true that there are people living here who have no idea of the wonders right outside their door. If this helps drag a few of them away from their TVs, and change their attitudes, maybe that is worthwhile.

    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    Fact is, mtbrs got left out of this, as simply more of the herd for wide, graded trails. Brown's Ranch is fun, I'm planning to ride it this weekend, but its also limited and expensive. They built horse-specific parking, they built hitching posts!!!! hitching posts to go with the special-parking areas for people who can afford their horses and giant trailers? If its raining handouts in Scottsdale, how come MTBRs got so little?
    Scottsdale has not come to the realization that some other communities have - MTBRs spend lots of $$ and can be an important economic force. Not sure what it will take to clue them in.

  44. #44
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,094
    I see your point cholla, but I really do believe that some folks would never think to just walk outside in the desert and find something beautiful or inspirational....because they've never done it before, they don't know it exists....it's a solipsistic barrier for them which makes no sense to me...but that's just because I can see it, just like you see your neighbors with the kids that never go outside.

    Granted....Scottsdale has a wealth of hand-holding opportunities for folks to utilize if they want a smooth entrance into the desert, so point well made.

    Downtown perhaps hits it.....it's a tourist thing.

  45. #45
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by dtownmtb View Post
    I'm pretty sure that all of the money spent on the preserve is from a 1% addition to the sales tax that is targeted as just such things. It would not be right (or legal, I'd think) to spend it on other things like schools - despite how worthy they are.
    you are correct, i believe. My point (not well spelled out) is that each of these expenditures is a choice for discretionary income, and in that sense a bond vs. a tax are similar vehicles.

    Once you start talking tourism you enter a maze of mixed motivations and information. Its constant in the AZ Republic. Entertainment district and the Phx Open tend to get the most attention. Scottsdale does a tremendous job of making itself a destination, and the city leaders are very involved in that. As a group they take a pro-investment pro-tourism approach. Its very hard to accurately quantify the economic impact, every study has a counterstudy, and every opinion has a very passionate counter-opinion, usually with charges of bias or being in someone's pocket. Here is an example: the bond proposal includes building a downtown parking structure to draw people to the entertainment district -- opponents argue that the city should not build it that it should be a private investment, or, that the entertainment district doesnt need any more advertising and already is too big.

    Like you said, that is how things get done in Scottsdale.

    WRT mtbrs, my feeling is that bias is all the old bitter Carla's of the world. Again, median age is 10 yrs above the national average. I dont think those people will ever clue in, a lot like transplants to Sedona.

  46. #46
    mtbr member
    Reputation: RajunCajun44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    2,787

  47. #47
    How much further ???
    Reputation: Douger-1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    2,371
    Best hiking trail in the country??? Really? I find that are to believe, A/C bathrooms and all.
    “Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did." Mark Twain

  48. #48
    My other ride is your mom
    Reputation: Maadjurguer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    5,094
    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post
    I just read through all 40 pages of comments and here is my summary:

    -Most of the comments are by out of town visitors. Visitors are delighted that the trailheads have cold water, bathrooms and easy to use paths. Visitors are also very concerned about rattlesnakes and cactus
    -A few, very small minority, don't like "dirt bikers" (only 4 or so comments out of the 200+ comments)
    -I'd say about half of the comments are clearly from novice outdoorsmen and women.....folks who don't normally get outside, or when they do...would only do so if there was a big arch leading them to a pathway, lots of maps and enough amenities to make them feel safe. This is my feeling on the subject, so take that with a grain of salt. However, I base my opinion on the fact that most of the users gush about the destination being a great one because of the cold water and AC bathrooms and easy hikes....ohh, and they do point out that the desert is pretty which in many cases, was a surprise to them.

    My commentary:
    I would not go so far as to say this is the majority user at the preserve locations.....please note these comments were left for Browns Ranch and Gateway areas. I would surmise that the kind of person that rates their experience here is the kind of person that never really does this kind of thing.....so the results are skewed to that demographic. I would further surmise that anyone local and supporting the Preserve might point to this body of comments as evidence for what users want. I would counter that the kind of folks that use the resource daily and or weekly, don't leave comments, don't use the public bathrooms, and would keep coming even if there was no water or AC bathrooms.

    Conclusion:
    What does this prove? Absolutely nothing. I do think it goes to show however that there may be a perception by those in charge at the Preserve based on comments received, that this is a tourist draw for Scottsdale and that the preservation of open space is that draw....and nothing more. We all certainly agree that we all support the preservation of open spaces, and we applaud the City for doing so. If we ever hope to include our voice to the conversation in any meaningful way, we will have to go much further than just griping about easy trails and the lack of anything progressive. This is not a value statement that has any traction whatsoever with the folks in charge of the Preserve. I think any successful conversation on our collective part will have to be framed in a discussion about how a lot of folks come to this city from out of town, and who ride. I'm not sure any of us has or can articulate that at the moment. I imagine someone with connections to the Chamber of Commerce/Tourism would.

    I'm going to have to watch Pedal Driven again....

  49. #49
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I just read through all 40 pages of comments and here is my summary:

    -Most of the comments are by out of town visitors. Visitors are delighted that the trailheads have cold water, bathrooms and easy to use paths. Visitors are also very concerned about rattlesnakes and cactus
    -A few, very small minority, don't like "dirt bikers" (only 4 or so comments out of the 200+ comments)
    -I'd say about half of the comments are clearly from novice outdoorsmen and women.....folks who don't normally get outside, or when they do...would only do so if there was a big arch leading them to a pathway, lots of maps and enough amenities to make them feel safe. This is my feeling on the subject, so take that with a grain of salt. However, I base my opinion on the fact that most of the users gush about the destination being a great one because of the cold water and AC bathrooms and easy hikes....ohh, and they do point out that the desert is pretty which in many cases, was a surprise to them.

    My commentary:
    I would not go so far as to say this is the majority user at the preserve locations.....please note these comments were left for Browns Ranch and Gateway areas. I would surmise that the kind of person that rates their experience here is the kind of person that never really does this kind of thing.....so the results are skewed to that demographic. I would further surmise that anyone local and supporting the Preserve might point to this body of comments as evidence for what users want. I would counter that the kind of folks that use the resource daily and or weekly, don't leave comments, don't use the public bathrooms, and would keep coming even if there was no water or AC bathrooms.

    Conclusion:
    What does this prove? Absolutely nothing. I do think it goes to show however that there may be a perception by those in charge at the Preserve based on comments received, that this is a tourist draw for Scottsdale and that the preservation of open space is that draw....and nothing more. We all certainly agree that we all support the preservation of open spaces, and we applaud the City for doing so. If we ever hope to include our voice to the conversation in any meaningful way, we will have to go much further than just griping about easy trails and the lack of anything progressive. This is not a value statement that has any traction whatsoever with the folks in charge of the Preserve. I think any successful conversation on our collective part will have to be framed in a discussion about how a lot of folks come to this city from out of town, and who ride. I'm not sure any of us has or can articulate that at the moment. I imagine someone with connections to the Chamber of Commerce/Tourism would.

    I'm going to have to watch Pedal Driven again....
    interesting thoughts. As anyone who has taken an intro to psych class knows, how you frame the question dictates the answer. So, some questions:

    1. Does the Preserve trail system offer the kind of challenges that make it a destination for you
    2. How many days a year do you recreate outdoors
    3. How much money per year do you spend on outdoor recreation
    4. Classify your skill level as beginner, intermediate, advanced
    5. How critical is challenging outdoor recreation to you
    6. Did open space influence your decision to buy a home in scottsdale
    7. did open space influence your decision to visit scottsdale
    8. What other attractions did you visit while in Scottsdale
    9. What other things in Scottsdale do you do

    That survey would likely paint a much clearer picture of various trail users. Tons of residents use the trails, you just see them higher up the mountain, and they dont bother with stupid noob oriented trail reviews. I've never written a trail review survey like that, ever, even to places I visit.

    I don't think we need to waste time with Scottsdale CoC. See my point about old people and the city council being focussed on tourism. I think as a city Scottsdale does a very good job of providing services to its residents.And I think they know quite well the many many local users, cars at the THs etc. The City Planners I've spoken with are all good people who get it and know who's out there, but they are still following their jobs and those jobs are not catered to bikes. I am in no way convinced that volunteering en masse will gain bikers any more traction. We are fighting Jim Crow laws in the Preserve mission statement. The old blueshirts tut tut when you ask for bike-friendly amenities, because the rules wont allow it that is all they need to know. 'Well of course you can have a drink of water, right over here at the Coloreds' fountain.' Some others who do volunteer could hopefully shed some light on that. If you guys can provide receptive voices, people genuinely interested in promoting biking amenities like at MMP or with the new park in Mesa...I will be among the first out there with my kids to volunteer for dig days. But I think they just want bike stewards to help maintain the status quo.

  50. #50
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    I was going to respond to Cholla's first response today, but now there is so much to cover....

    Let me just say, I don't have any more influence than the rest of you. I'm just a MTBR looking for a spot to help out the community. I will say, the City is in listening mode and they have had meetings (not me). I have no idea if they will change their approach to trail building in the next phases. I do personally hope so.

    I just did a Google search and found there is a Preserve Commission meeting next week on the 7th. Note that the published agenda has time for public comments and a discussion of Trail Standards.

    Will you be there?

  51. #51
    parenting for gnarness
    Reputation: chollaball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    6,142
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkP View Post

    Will you be there?
    why?
    they dont gaf, its a Preserve sonny, not a park. Man its comfortable in this here bathroom.

  52. #52
    The Next 100 Miler
    Reputation: MarkP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    232
    OK, we've been working on this since November. X-posted here because this is important to the future trails at Brown's Ranch. We are the communications conduit to the City of Scottsdale.

    Announcing the Desert Foothills Mountain Bike Association

  53. #53
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,716

    Brown's Ranch Trailhead Grand Opening - Sat. Oct. 19th - Scottsdale

    Rode the new system for the first time on Sunday, and loved it. Going back this weekend for more. Great desert XC riding, and easy to pile up some non-pounding miles. Had ridden out there in the old days, too...never really thought much of it. Much better now, IMO. Don't like it, too easy, too fancy, too whatever? Don't go...


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  54. #54
    Ouch, I am hot!
    Reputation: Dirdir's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    4,764
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    ... and loved it ... easy to pile up some non-pounding miles ...
    Since when do you like anything non-pounding?
    I AM JUST A JERK

  55. #55
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,716
    Quote Originally Posted by Dirdir View Post
    Since when do you like anything non-pounding?
    In my old age...
    Ride more; post less...

  56. #56
    JJK
    JJK is offline
    AZ MTBR
    Reputation: JJK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    316
    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    In my old age...
    Hey Walt, I did a nite ride there last nite and I feel the same way as you.. In my old age these trails are cool... I think they built some good stuff out there, more fun than the old P&D. I have ridden out there since last fall on all the new trails and love it and the Swanky Bathrooms..
    Later, JohnnyK
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Brown's Ranch Trailhead Grand Opening - Sat. Oct. 19th - Scottsdale-mtb-nite-ride-p-d.jpg  


  57. #57
    Just another half mile...
    Reputation: Epicrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,004

    Updated MAP

    Still lots of old P&D moto trails to the north of the new stuff for all you people who were complaining about P&D being dumbed down. Last weekend I went out and rode some of the old stuff to the north of Granite Mtn, still lots of fun to be had out in the northern trails for those looking for a little more adventure.The old trails are not getting ridden much by mountain bikers, and not seeing as much use as the new trails. In fact now that the motos are largely gone, it seems the equestrians are out riding the old moto trail more than mtn bikers. I have updated my MAP with the new trails in Green and the old moto trails in red.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn-Rider View Post
    They obviously had hikers in mind first, horses second, wildlife 3rd, insects 4th, desert plants 5th, birdwatchers 6th, trail workers 7th, grand opening guests 8th, and it does look like they added cyclists, oh wait, those are mountain bikers.

    Still, I'll take it as is because the land could have easily turned into housing developments, we all get to enjoy it instead, who could possibly complain. I'm fine with the new trails too because there just aren't many other places around here where you can take beginners for a really fun and scenic ride and not get beat up doing it. It's a great addition to all the riding we already have, and if you want the old trails, there's plenty still left, at least for now.

    My first impression the first time I rode the new trails was the same as the moto trail lovers, I thought P&D was all gone. Looking at the map you can see there's plenty of the old trails still left.

  58. #58
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,716

    Brown's Ranch Trailhead Grand Opening - Sat. Oct. 19th - Scottsdale

    Quote Originally Posted by Epicrider View Post
    Still lots of old P&D moto trails to the north of the new stuff for all you people who were complaining about P&D being dumbed down. Last weekend I went out and rode some of the old stuff to the north of Granite Mtn, still lots of fun to be had out in the northern trails for those looking for a little more adventure.The old trails are not getting ridden much by mountain bikers, and not seeing as much use as the new trails. In fact now that the motos are largely gone, it seems the equestrians are out riding the old moto trail more than mtn bikers. I have updated my MAP with the new trails in Green and the old moto trails in red.
    Thanks, Dale...very nice of you! It's quite amazing that the sprawling Preserve is just a lesser piece of the overall area. It's a veritable smorgasbord!!

    If you were to recommend a route that tours the best of the N/NW trails, what would you suggest?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    Ride more; post less...

  59. #59
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    357
    Quote Originally Posted by Epicrider View Post
    Still lots of old P&D moto trails to the north of the new stuff for all you people who were complaining about P&D being dumbed down. Last weekend I went out and rode some of the old stuff to the north of Granite Mtn, still lots of fun to be had out in the northern trails for those looking for a little more adventure.The old trails are not getting ridden much by mountain bikers, and not seeing as much use as the new trails. In fact now that the motos are largely gone, it seems the equestrians are out riding the old moto trail more than mtn bikers. I have updated my MAP with the new trails in Green and the old moto trails in red.
    Thanks, the old moto trails are where the real fun is !

  60. #60
    Just another half mile...
    Reputation: Epicrider's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    1,004
    Hmmm, try this route. This route starts off of Branding Iron. Take 24 north to 44, right on 33, then left on Staghorn, then right on 25 to 54, then left on 23 (West Express), then right on Legends of the North, right on Legend Loop, left on Legends of the South, left on 20, right on 19, left on 18, which will get you back to the new trails. If you have a Garmin GPS, drop this KMZ file into the custom maps folder in the unit, make it a lot easier to follow the trails out there. Don't forget to enable it to display it.

    Quote Originally Posted by waltaz View Post
    Thanks, Dale...very nice of you! It's quite amazing that the sprawling Preserve is just a lesser piece of the overall area. It's a veritable smorgasbord!!

    If you were to recommend a route that tours the best of the N/NW trails, what would you suggest?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  61. #61
    I am Walt
    Reputation: waltaz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    4,716
    Quote Originally Posted by Epicrider View Post
    Hmmm, try this route. This route starts off of Branding Iron. Take 24 north to 44, right on 33, then left on Staghorn, then right on 25 to 54, then left on 23 (West Express), then right on Legends of the North, right on Legend Loop, left on Legends of the South, left on 20, right on 19, left on 18, which will get you back to the new trails. If you have a Garmin GPS, drop this KMZ file into the custom maps folder in the unit, make it a lot easier to follow the trails out there. Don't forget to enable it to display it.
    Thanks so much!!!
    Ride more; post less...

  62. #62
    Give it a crank
    Reputation: Mtn-Rider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,995
    Nice job on the map as always, Epicrider! Many thanks.

Similar Threads

  1. Brown's Ranch Trailhead
    By Phillbo in forum Arizona
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: 01-17-2014, 11:40 AM
  2. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 10-20-2013, 09:06 PM
  3. Hall Ranch Antelope Trailhead PSA
    By ignazjr in forum Colorado - Front Range
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-06-2012, 11:37 AM
  4. Scottsdale man arrested in trailhead burglary
    By PhxChem in forum Arizona
    Replies: 40
    Last Post: 05-25-2012, 09:45 AM
  5. Replies: 12
    Last Post: 06-08-2011, 08:34 PM

Members who have read this thread: 0

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •