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Thread: Bash Guard

  1. #1
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    Bash Guard

    After this weekend and noticing that my big ring is already badly damaged after less than a half dozen rides on the new bike I've been encourage to get a bash guard.



    This popped up on Chainlove a while ago for $15. I've got a Pitch with a 22/32/44 setup and I only had about 20 seconds to make a purchase so I got the red one in 34t size. It's made of aluminum but I think some of the trend is towards the plastic versions.

    Is this 34t gonna work or should I look for something else? Is the "Bolt Circle Diameter" of 104mm the proper size/dimension for my Pitch? I would assume that most nuts & bolts are somewhat standardized but in my 40-some-odd-years I've learned to never take something so simple for granted.

    Ted at DNA Cycles said the only think I'd need for installing a bash guard (besides the guard) would be longer bolts since this guard is thicker than the cog is. Would those bolts come with this guard?

    Thanks,

  2. #2
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    Might not need different bolts.. I didn't with my raceface alum one that's probably the same as yours

  3. #3
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    Or I guess if i did need them, they came with it.. Either way I didn't have to go find new longer ones

  4. #4
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    Never needed longer bolts with my RF BG.
    "The secret of joy is the mastery of pain." (Anaïs Nin)

  5. #5
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    That'll work. I have the same one except for 36T and black. Works great and is very light and durable.

  6. #6
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    usually when you go to a basher you remove the large chain ring. that allows the original bolts to still work. the extra clearance is so nice for rock hopping.
    RAM speed: UP, UP, and away....!

  7. #7
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    bigO, same guard that I run, didn't need longer bolts, the 104 is just what you need, the aluminum is very durable. Mine were $45 a pop, nice deal that you got.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  8. #8
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    If in the future you want to change color, you can't go wrong with BBG bashguards for $18 shipped.

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    Great news! I assumed that 34t had the outer diameter of a 34t cog which would be slightly larger than the 32t ring I have on the middle and quite a bit smaller than the 44t large ring so I should have some extra clearance. No I'll need to work on my pedal stroke to avoid the pedal strikes...

  10. #10
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    Spray paint it black!

  11. #11
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    Mike - Unfortunately that will not work for your bike. You need to give it to me. It had to be said! Good call with getting that bash guard. After last weekend I changed my tires out to UST because the burping and sidewall tears were driving me nuts. I have been looking around for a bash guard too. I think Red wouldl look good on your bike.

    edit: I am color blined so don't listen to what I have to say...was just told that bash guard in the pic is orange not red...

  12. #12
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    You may not remember, but I tried warning you about running a large ring - they just get trashed...
    ONE SHOX, ONE GEAR, LOTS of FUN! www.TrailFu.com My Rides

  13. #13
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    thanks for the info

    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz
    If in the future you want to change color, you can't go wrong with BBG bashguards for $18 shipped.
    ordered one - mystery color

  14. #14
    Let'er Buck
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    I put a bashguard on after slicing 4 could size chunks of meat out of my calf from slipping and being attacked by my big ring.
    "Powder River, Let 'er Buck"

  15. #15
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    Mike, I think I have the exact same bike (Pitch Pro 2010 in brown) as you, save for the paint. I bought the exact (well, green not red) same bash guard from Chainlove about 3 weeks back. I took mine for it's first ride with the guard and ground some paint off of it on Waterfall on Saturday.

    I received the green bash guard in 3 days from Chainlove even though I had paid for the slow boat 2 week service. Excellent delivery and service from them so far.

    I slipped my big ring off and the bash guard on and used the same bolts that came with the bike with no issues. You will be fine with the setup you purchsed.

    Was probably the easiest upgrade to a bike I have ever attempted. 4 bolts and the ring slips over the pedal and off followed in reverse by the bash guard.

    Some day I want to get a chain guide on there as well but I really don't know how they work except for the all inclusive bash guard/chain guide systems. I need to do some research on the chain guide and see what I can find. If you find anything let me know!

    I'm dying to run into you up on the mountain now! Our bikes are practically like non-identical twins separated at birth! OK, too stalker-ish for you??? I'll be looking for the yellow Pitch up there now every time I ride. Hope to see you around the valley sometime.

  16. #16
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    e13 offers a nice guide that works with reliably dual chain rings. There are others out there as well.

  17. #17
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    Great news! I assumed that 34t had the outer diameter of a 34t cog which would be slightly larger than the 32t ring I have on the middle
    Mike, a 34t bash is made to cover a 34t ring, and so on. If you ever decide to move to a 34t middle ring you're good to go with that bash.

    Check out the Blackspire Stinger chain tensioner, it makes a pretty solid 2 ring set up when paired with your bash... for little money.

  18. #18
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    chain guide

    Quote Originally Posted by thebrow

    Some day I want to get a chain guide on there as well but I really don't know how they work except for the all inclusive bash guard/chain guide systems. I need to do some research on the chain guide and see what I can find. If you find anything let me know!
    You might consider a "Ronnie ring" Cactus sells them for about $20. They prevent the chain from jumping off the small ring (in the event that the front derailleur cannot). They work slick, and are very easy to install. My AM bike was always dropping the chain off the front no matter what I did, this little gem solved the issue for good...
    Check my pulse...

  19. #19
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    Thanks to all the answers concerning a chain guide or similar device. I'll be looking each of these over tonight and get an order in.

    Mike, only time I have ever had the chain drop on my bike was on National last Saturday after putting the bash guard on. Probably not a case of the bash guard contributing to the chain jump but more likely the bike loosening up still since it is still fairly new (bought in November '10)

    Thanks again for the responses!

  20. #20
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    You new to bash guard guys may or may not know this, but once you are no longer running a big ring you can shorten your chain accordingly, this will help in the chain dropping area.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy29er
    You new to bash guard guys may or may not know this, but once you are no longer running a big ring you can shorten your chain accordingly, this will help in the chain dropping area.
    Good call. I went to a medium cage derailleur when I took the big ring off and I haven't dropped a chain since, with a shortened chain of course.

  22. #22
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    removing anodize tip:

    Here's a tip some of you may or may not know. If you've got an anodized part that is faded or you just want to remove the anodizing color, use this stuff:


    It will remove the color and give you a natural aluminum finish that you can polish or not. Just let it soak and rinse.

    Dash

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grave9
    Spray paint it black!
    Hell no! I'm gonna check and see what it costs to powdercoat it purple

    Quote Originally Posted by randyharris
    You may not remember, but I tried warning you about running a large ring - they just get trashed...
    You're right, I don't, but I'm sure you did. Didn't actually give it a whole lotta thought until that trip up and down National. LOTS of banging on the big ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by thebrow
    I'm dying to run into you up on the mountain now! Our bikes are practically like non-identical twins separated at birth! OK, too stalker-ish for you??? I'll be looking for the yellow Pitch up there now every time I ride.
    Slightly stalkerish I'll be around. PMP, SoMo, Deem Hills, anywhere close with some single track...

    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Check out the Blackspire Stinger chain tensioner, it makes a pretty solid 2 ring set up when paired with your bash... for little money.
    OK, so school me on the chain tensioner... What's it's purpose? Obviously to tension the chain but I can count on my d1ck how many times my chain has popped off any ring and while that was back with some tamer riding I've never thought of it being a problem. Guess it must be since the 2011 Pitch is a 2x9 with bash & tensioner.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy29er
    You new to bash guard guys may or may not know this, but once you are no longer running a big ring you can shorten your chain accordingly, this will help in the chain dropping area.
    How many links would I knock off?

    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz
    Good call. I went to a medium cage derailleur when I took the big ring off and I haven't dropped a chain since, with a shortened chain of course.
    What's a "medium cage derailleur?" Didn't know there were different size derailleurs...

    Thanks for all the info & tangent topics. Good stuff I need to know...

  24. #24
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    chain length

    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy29er
    You new to bash guard guys may or may not know this, but once you are no longer running a big ring you can shorten your chain accordingly, this will help in the chain dropping area.
    Good rule of thumb is to set the chain length so it easily makes the circuit around both of the largest rings on each end with the derailleur all the way forward (or off for that matter) plus about 2 links...kinda intuitive, but if you don't happen to know, your chain will be slapping all around and never have good tension...

    I second the med cage derailleur as well...nice way to go, works great for 2x9 with the large ring removed.
    Check my pulse...

  25. #25
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    i bought the exact same bash guard off chainlove.com
    so did my brother. great purchase, it fit in my iron horse with shimano crankset, and his specialized pitch pro. so it should be seamless. neither him or i needed longer bolts. this particular guard is very thin.

    edit: looks like he beat me to it... thebrow is who i was referencing.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertCrawler
    e13 offers a nice guide that works with reliably dual chain rings. There are others out there as well.
    MRP LRP is another one, but I think that the e-13 is a better product due to the design.
    Some reports of mud issues with the e-13 design though.
    Blackspire Dewlie is another.
    Do alot of shopping online, the price varies considerably.
    Do your research prior to purchasing!

  27. #27
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    To add to 5bravo, another "check" for chain length, when in big/big your rear derailleur should be angled forward roughly 45 degrees. FWIW, I also switched to a medium cage when swapping out the big ring for a bash. Also, you'll want to adjust your hi limit on your front derailleur so you're not shifting up onto your bash ring, for those intense moments that you're just not going fast enough and you forget what ring you're in.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Mike, a 34t bash is made to cover a 34t ring, and so on. If you ever decide to move to a 34t middle ring you're good to go with that bash.

    Check out the Blackspire Stinger chain tensioner, it makes a pretty solid 2 ring set up when paired with your bash... for little money.
    +2 on the black spire stinger , it does what a Ronnie ring does but better and it is also a chain tensioner -------its $25.00 , you can not go wrong with this for a dual ring set up

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyBones
    MRP LRP is another one, but I think that the e-13 is a better product due to the design.
    Some reports of mud issues with the e-13 design though.
    Blackspire Dewlie is another.
    Do alot of shopping online, the price varies considerably.
    Do your research prior to purchasing!
    For sure. When I converted to 24/36 I settled in on a few brands but focused on Black Spire and RaceFace as they offer great quality at a reasonable price. I found the RaceFace Light Team FR set for $60 shipped. The typical street price on that bash alone is typically $30-35. Best I have found on the combo lately is closer to $68 plus shipping. Pays to shop, and sometimes right place right time helps.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    +2 on the black spire stinger , it does what a Ronnie ring does but better and it is also a chain tensioner -------its $25.00 , you can not go wrong with this for a dual ring set up


    What mount would I need? BB, ISCG, or ISCG05? I'm thinking the purple roller would go well with these pedals:



    But they don't sell that pedal online for some reason. Plus, if the other pedals are a clue they are probably too expensive for my wallet.

    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Mike, a 34t bash is made to cover a 34t ring, and so on. If you ever decide to move to a 34t middle ring you're good to go with that bash.
    Without a big ring I'm thinking going bigger in the middle isn't a bad idea. I'll worry about that later, though.

  31. #31
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    OK, so school me on the chain tensioner... What's it's purpose?
    Keeps from dropping the chain and aids in reducing chainslap. You may or may not benefit from one. I think the chainslap is better reduced by shortening the chain and going to medium cage der.

    A chain guide is a bit different, I've never used one. Someone else can explain its function(s).

  32. #32
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    i just bought the ronnie ring because of what i read here, its being installed at cactus bikes. (they are doing a bunch of other stuff too, so i just threw that in)

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stumpy29er
    You new to bash guard guys may or may not know this, but once you are no longer running a big ring you can shorten your chain accordingly, this will help in the chain dropping area.
    True dat. I shortened mine when the two ring conversion happened.

    There are calculators that google will find, and may be even more intuitive ways of choosing appropriate length.

    This may help:

    http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/...inlength.shtml

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    What mount would I need? BB, ISCG, or ISCG05? I'm thinking the purple roller would go well with these pedals:
    Check the specifications for your model and year of bike. If it has the ISCG tabs from the factory they will brag about it. If it does not have the tabs, you want the BB version.

    My 09 Marin does not have the tabs.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertCrawler
    Check the specifications for your model and year of bike. If it has the ISCG tabs from the factory they will brag about it. If it does not have the tabs, you want the BB version.
    Cool, I'll check. I didn't even know what the initials meant besides BB...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertCrawler
    404...

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    404...
    Chain sizing is soooo simple. Just follow these directions

    Chain Sizing by Equation
    Bicycle chains consist of inner and outer plates. It is only possible to join inner plates to outer plates. Because of this, chains can only be connected at whole (integral) inch increments. For example, some derailleur bike chain could only be 51, 52, 53 inches, etc. Chains cannot be cut to 52-1/4”, 53-1/8”, or even 52-1/2”. It is possible to determine chain length from industrial drive train equations, and then cut the chain before installing it on the bike.

    Begin by counting the number of teeth on the largest front sprocket and largest rear. These numbers are often printed right on the sprockets and cogs. Next, measure the distance between the middle of the crank bolt to the rear axle. This is also the chain stay length. Measure to the closest 1/8”, and convert this to decimal form. A simple chart below will assist this conversion.

    Fractional conversion to decimal for 1/8” measurements:
    1/8” = 0.125”
    1/4" = 0.25”
    3/8” = 0.375”
    1/2” = 0.5”
    5/8” = 0.625”
    3/4" = 0.75”
    7/8” = 0.875”
    For most bicycles, a relatively simple chain length equations may be used. For bicycles with extreme differences in chainring sizes and short chain stays, the more rigorous and complete equation may be used. This is discussed later in this article.

    SIMPLE EQUATION: L = 2 (C) + (F/4 + R/4 + 1)

    L = Chain length in inches. Round the final result to closest whole inch figure.
    C = Chain stay length in inches, measure to closest 1/8”. Use chart below to find decimal measurement.
    F= Number of teeth on largest front chainring.
    R= Number of teeth on largest rear cog.

    Example: A bike has a 42-32-22 front chainring set up. Use only the 42 for the equation. The rear cog set has 32 tooth largest cog. The bike measures 16-3/8” from the center of the rear axle to the center of the crank bolt. The decimal equivalent for 16-3/8” is 16.375 inches.


    L = 2 (16.375) + (42/4 + 32/4 + 1)

    In the example above, this becomes 32.75 + 10.5 + 8 + 1 = 52.25 inches. Chains cannot be joined at 52.25 inches, so this length is rounded to 52 inches.

    For this system, round up from 0.5. For example, a chain length figured to be 55.5 would be rounded to 56 inches.

    To measure the new chain, lay it on a flat surface with the rollers and plates aligned vertically. Pull on each end to straighten out the chain. Measure from either end. Remember, you can only shorten the chain at whole inch increments. If the chain uses a master link, install it on one of the chain for purposes of measuring, and measure including the master link.


    Rigorous Equation
    Examples of bikes using the rigorous equation would be a track bike with a large front ring, perhaps a 55 tooth, and a small rear cog, such as a 11 tooth. Additionally, to require the rigorous equation, the bike would need a very short chain stay, such as 15 inches or under in length. As the front and rear sprockets differ more in size, the chain must diverge more off a line represented by the chain stay. This is the hypotenuse of a triangle, which can add to the chain length. Again, it is only a concern in very extreme cases.

    For an example of the rigorous equation, assume a one speed bike has a 15 inch chain stay, a 58 tooth front ring and an 11 tooth rear sprocket. For one-speed bikes, eliminate the "1" at the beginning of the equation. This is the extra inch added by derailleur manufacturers when sizing chain. The short equation yields an answer of 47.25 inches, which should be rounded to 47 inches. The rigorous equation yields an answer of 48.17 inches, which is rounded to 48 inches. The short equation would be an inch too short. This again is an extreme situation. Even in this one-speed example, if the chainring is reduced to a 55t, the two equations come up with the same answer.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike


    What mount would I need? BB, ISCG, or ISCG05? I'm thinking the purple roller would go well with these pedals:



    But they don't sell that pedal online for some reason. Plus, if the other pedals are a clue they are probably too expensive for my wallet.


    Without a big ring I'm thinking going bigger in the middle isn't a bad idea. I'll worry about that later, though.
    The smaller of the ISCG bolt on mounts ISCG 03 is yours

  39. #39
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    Does one need to shorten the chain if you get a tensioner?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Does one need to shorten the chain if you get a tensioner?
    The tensioner is really not what will determin your length of chain,it does not make much difference really --the fact that you have no big ring any more means you can take generally one or two whole links out .

    if you get a med cadge for your derailur and or a med cadge derailur you can take another link out .

    Generally most factory built 3 ring bikes with a long derailur have 2 or 3 links that can be taken out when you go to a 2x9 with a med cage derailur with a tensioner and bash on.

    With your drivetrain all together the way you will run it ,Just take one link out at a time, and shift your bike on the middle ring in ft ( Which is your large ring now that you removed your 44 )and the large 34 tooth ring in the rear , and then take your shock off and cycle your rear end through its travel, you will see how tight your chain is getting as you bottom your suspension, you do not want to run out of derailur spring before you bottom your travel.

    Its real easy simple common sence stuff

    I run a 2x9 , I have a black spire and a bash ring and I run a med cage derailur and I run 3 less links in my chain over what it was stock ,

    I have no chain slap and have never dropped a chain at all

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    ... and then take your shock off and cycle your rear end through its travel, you will see how tight your chain is getting as you bottom your suspension, you do not want to run out of derailur spring before you bottom your travel.
    Sounds like a good idea regardless of suspension design but is this necessary for the FSR on the Pitch? I am going to be doing the same thing soon on similar suspension so that is why I ask.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    With your drivetrain all together the way you will run it ,Just take one link out at a time, and shift your bike on the middle ring in ft ( Which is your large ring now that you removed your 44 )and the large 34 tooth ring in the rear , and then take your shock off and cycle your rear end through its travel, you will see how tight your chain is getting as you bottom your suspension, you do not want to run out of derailur spring before you bottom your travel.
    This is a really good and important point...My bad not mentioning it (FAIL)...Leads to a good read to help guys understand why a well thought out suspension is important and vastly more complex than even the chain formula:

    http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/articl...n-part-1-28367

    Plus it makes it a little easier to 'splain to the wife or GF why your bike cost's as much as a decent mid 2000's dirtbike....
    Check my pulse...

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dragon
    Sounds like a good idea regardless of suspension design but is this necessary for the FSR on the Pitch? I am going to be doing the same thing soon on similar suspension so that is why I ask.
    Yes , the Pitch fsr has 9mm of chain growth , the horst link uses chain growth through out its travel for its "anti squat" , so it is very importaint to make sure you have enough room when making a chain smaller.

    Most all designs of suspension will have some "Chain growth" to be awear of .

    My fsr has 3mm of growth and it will yank the chain apart if you get it too tight and have it on the middle ft ring and the large 34 rear sprocket and drop off and bottom the suspension.

    Now as you get used to correctly using the transmission on your bike ---(you should never use the middle ft ring and the big rear ring together , that is a terrible chainline and robbs power ) --------then you can get the chain even tighter if you want to because you know that granny 4 or 5 is the set up you should use for that ratio rather than using middle ring 1.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    Now as you get used to correctly using the transmission on your bike ---(you should never use the middle ft ring and the big rear ring together , that is a terrible chainline and robbs power ) --------then you can get the chain even tighter if you want to because you know that granny 4 or 5 is the set up you should use for that ratio rather than using middle ring 1.
    how do you recommend we go about going fast on single track without that big ring? i dropped my large ring and replaced it with the bash guard. are you saying im stuck with middle all around? or is there some optimizing that can take place?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theycallmebrown
    how do you recommend we go about going fast on single track without that big ring? i dropped my large ring and replaced it with the bash guard. are you saying im stuck with middle all around? or is there some optimizing that can take place?
    Most true allmountain riders have no use for the 44 tooth ring , it just gets bent and derails the chain------so no you wont need it .--( you just spin faster in the 36 middle and the 11 tooth rear --------its just fine and plenty fast when your gobbling up hack and slaming drops)---------you can run a 36 tooth up ft if you think you need it , -----one ride doing some allmountain hack and you will see you don't need it.

    I was talking about shifting into the middle ring ( which is the new big ring once you remove the 44 tooth ring and install a bash ring ) --and shifting into the large 36 tooth rear ring -------thus crossing the chain from right to left so badly that you are wearing the drivetrain out badly and making alot of friction -----------you can shift into you little 22 tooth ft ring and 4th or 5th in the rear and get the same ratio and have the chain line become straight so you get perfect power transfer and do not wear your drivetrain out , -----and you can run your chain tighter knowing you will never run the middle ring and 1st cog in the rear .

    You should not go any lower that the 4th ring in the rear while on the 32 middle ft ring.

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    Christ, my head is starting to hurt. I thought this was gonna be simple and now I'm taking my Fing shock off... I'm sure it's simple... I'm just lazy. Should I Loctite my shock bolts when I put them back together?

    Thanks for all the info...

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theycallmebrown
    how do you recommend we go about going fast on single track without that big ring? i dropped my large ring and replaced it with the bash guard. are you saying im stuck with middle all around? or is there some optimizing that can take place?
    Although they exist, I don't know too many people who can spin out on 36T let alone 44T.

  48. #48
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    Besides possibly loctite, bigO, get a torque wrench if you don't already have one, and start torquing everything regularly. Personally, I check torque on every single fastener at least every other ride, definitely before rides like our shuttle Sunday. Takes about 5 minutes once you get a routine down, torque specs should be available Specialized web site.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DesertCrawler
    Although they exist, I don't know too many people who can spin out on 36T let alone 44T.
    well my middle ring (now my large) is a 32T. and there have been a few times where im pointed downhill now and peddling gets me nowhere faster.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theycallmebrown
    well my middle ring (now my large) is a 32T. and there have been a few times where im pointed downhill now and peddling gets me nowhere faster.
    Yeah, I can see spinning out on 32T. When converting to two rings most tend to upsize the middle ring.

  51. #51
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    Get a good torque wrench not a piece of junk; spend your ducats wisely!

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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Christ, my head is starting to hurt. I thought this was gonna be simple and now I'm taking my Fing shock off... I'm sure it's simple... I'm just lazy. Should I Loctite my shock bolts when I put them back together?

    Thanks for all the info...
    Lord Mike do not use locktight on your bike--( only on some items , not many at all ) , I get more bikes in where I have to drill out bolts and then make new bolts for the guy ( most bolts are very special and you can not get them as quickly as you thought ) -------put good grease on the fasteners you will have off all the time )

    And do not water wash your bike , the AZ lime water will kill you bike quick and you really wont be able to bet any fasteners off the poor thing.

  53. #53
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    Christ, my head is starting to hurt. I thought this was gonna be simple and now I'm taking my Fing shock off... I'm sure it's simple... I'm just lazy. Should I Loctite my shock bolts when I put them back together?
    LOL...air shock? Just let out the air and cycle it.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    LOL...air shock? Just let out the air and cycle it.

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    LOL...air shock? Just let out the air and cycle it.
    While its in your service stand it is way better to just pop the shock off and be able to smoothly move the suspension all the way with no hassle or drag through the travel.

    This way you can detect any cable drag ( your pitch needs attension to the cable routing under the BB to keep drag out of the system and to keep from dragging the cables on the frame )
    and you can keep an eye on the feel and play of the bearings ( they should be silky smooth and have no play )

    And you will cycle it many many times while getting your chain the correct length and checking and correcting everything and when you try to do this with the shock still on its a sticky pain in the a$$ hassle ( and you still have 200 psi of nitrogen in the shock and its hard to cycle without taking the bike out of the stand everytime )
    I find it nice to just pop the shock off-------Plus now is the time to service and lube the air sleeve with "Slick Honey" and keep the shock working smooth and correctly
    I like to service my air shock every month and it keeps from killing the seal and it keeps the suspension working smooth .

  56. #56
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    smooth like butta' ?

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    While its in your service stand it is way better to just pop the shock off and be able to smoothly move the suspension all the way with no hassle or drag through the travel.

    This way you can detect any cable drag ( your pitch needs attension to the cable routing under the BB to keep drag out of the system and to keep from dragging the cables on the frame )
    and you can keep an eye on the feel and play of the bearings ( they should be silky smooth and have no play )

    And you will cycle it many many times while getting your chain the correct length and checking and correcting everything and when you try to do this with the shock still on its a sticky pain in the a$$ hassle ( and you still have 200 psi of nitrogen in the shock and its hard to cycle without taking the bike out of the stand everytime )
    I find it nice to just pop the shock off-------Plus now is the time to service and lube the air sleeve with "Slick Honey" and keep the shock working smooth and correctly
    I like to service my air shock every month and it keeps from killing the seal and it keeps the suspension working smooth .
    While I appreciate your logic...this is why Mike's head hurts Poor dude just wants to ride with a bashgaurd, lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    Lord Mike do not use locktight on your bike--( only on some items , not many at all ) , I get more bikes in where I have to drill out bolts and then make new bolts for the guy ( most bolts are very special and you can not get them as quickly as you thought ) -------put good grease on the fasteners you will have off all the time )

    And do not water wash your bike , the AZ lime water will kill you bike quick and you really wont be able to bet any fasteners off the poor thing.
    Well, I would've used BLUE loctite and I know our water sucks.

    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    While I appreciate your logic...this is why Mike's head hurts Poor dude just wants to ride with a bashgaurd, lol.
    Exactly It's probably not all that difficult. Just more work than I was prepared for. Probably would be good for me to learn to take this thing apart. Then I'll know better how to fix it.

    What's "slick honey?" Is that the stuff DNA put around the front fork seals that they said doesn't need to be done but once or twice a year?

  59. #59
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    Exactly It's probably not all that difficult. Just more work than I was prepared for
    Here's my humble advice at this point.

    1) install bash
    2) adj. front der. limit screw so you cannot shift into the now missing ring
    3) ride bike / have fun
    Worst case scenario is that the drivetrain performs just like it did before. Make the other adjustments in time...over a few beers

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride
    Here's my humble advice at this point.

    1) install bash
    2) adj. front der. limit screw so you cannot shift into the now missing ring
    3) ride bike / have fun
    Worst case scenario is that the drivetrain performs just like it did before. Make the other adjustments in time...over a few beers
    I'll probably go with that but I'll probably take out 2 links (seems to be a conservative estimate) and see how it rides. Then, if I'm feeling frisky I'll unscrew the shock and play with it until I get it perfect.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Well, I would've used BLUE loctite and I know our water sucks.


    Exactly It's probably not all that difficult. Just more work than I was prepared for. Probably would be good for me to learn to take this thing apart. Then I'll know better how to fix it.

    What's "slick honey?" Is that the stuff DNA put around the front fork seals that they said doesn't need to be done but once or twice a year?
    No locktight , till you kinda get a handle on where you might need it.

    Slick Honey is a great suspension lube that I love for rebuilding forks and shocks , its actually made for bikes and I also use it alot in my automotive shop for transmissions and all seals and on the moto race bikes , It really works good and can keep you air sleeve seal and your forks alive and kills stiction.--( you need it more than once a year )
    You can order it from A&E Bike , most shops around town do not have it .

    Its two bolts to pop your shock off , it takes way more time to screw around with letting the air out and trying to compress the suspension and hold it just right to see what your chain tension is doing

    This stuff is all easy to do and is something you will be doing all the time to keep your ride working correctly and to keep your bolts and nuts lubed with slick honey so they wont siez and jam up .

  62. #62
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    Locktite blue on disc rotor bolts -- pretty much a given. Caliper hangers are another candidate.

    Usually, stuff doesn't come loose with properly torqued fasteners when the threads of both mating interfaces are clean and in good shape. Fasteners do have a life cycle and over torquing them can stretch and distort them so they will never stay tight.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr
    Its two bolts to pop your shock off , it takes way more time to screw around with letting the air out and trying to compress the suspension and hold it just right to see what your chain tension is doing
    Gotta take 'em both off? I figured pop the top bolt off and let the shock just sit there as the upper triangle rotates?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Gotta take 'em both off? I figured pop the top bolt off and let the shock just sit there as the upper triangle rotates?
    Some bikes you can , but be real carfull when you swing the shock forward the lower mount does not hit the stanchion on the shock and make dam sure the upper linckedg does not hit the shock either .

    Its just as easy to pop it off and then be able to lube both the bolts and nuts so they wont siez .

    Real simple stuff

  65. #65
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    I just ordered some of the Buzzys brand Slick Honey this morning before reading this. I have heard it's great stuff as well for suspension seals. I got a tube of it for like $7 from Jensons, I think they had a tub of it for twenty some odd bucks too.

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch 1
    I just ordered some of the Buzzys brand Slick Honey this morning before reading this. I have heard it's great stuff as well for suspension seals. I got a tube of it for like $7 from Jensons, I think they had a tub of it for twenty some odd bucks too.
    That old Buzzy's Slick Honey is some great stuff.
    Your right the tub is about $20.00 , It really removes any stiction when applied to your fork bushings , seals and seal packing when freshinng up forks and shocks .
    You will find lots of uses for it .
    Works really well in freewheel hubs and on all nuts and bolts that are prone to siezing up .

  67. #67
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    Or you could just take a link off at a time until it feels right instead of taking everything apart and rebuilding it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tonebone2000
    Or you could just take a link off at a time until it feels right instead of taking everything apart and rebuilding it.
    Well, the problem with that is I don't know what FEELS right. If it weren't for MTBR I wouldn't even have thought of removing links since I've never dropped a chain.

    I forgot about these:





    That's just THREE rides worth of damage


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    You gotta find some bigger drops, bigO, you're not using all of your rear shock travel.
    The question isn't who's going to let me, it's who's going to stop me.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike
    Well, the problem with that is I don't know what FEELS right. If it weren't for MTBR I wouldn't even have thought of removing links since I've never dropped a chain.

    I forgot about these:





    That's just THREE rides worth of damage

    Ive seen guys run the big ring untill they have the teeth compleatly gone at the two low spots , so your not to bad, but you needed to get a bash ring on there and a tensioner and get rid of the chain slap and not drop a chain ( as you pound harder and get faster you will drop a chain ).

    And when ever you alter the drive system -----Tensioner, different cage derailur or different size rings or take links out of the chain you really must pop the shock off and slowly cycle the travel and find you tightest spot and make sure you you have some derailur spring left , -----you want the chain just long enough but you do not want it to long .( The bike must be quiet , slient and have no chain slap or noise --------I can not ride a bike that clanks down the trail )

    If you just guess and take links out and you happen to end up to tight and compress the suspension you will pull the whole rear derailur into the spokes and make a real mess .

    so don't guess , its to easy to make sure

    That new bash ring look great , now go and beat it up and see how it works !!

  71. #71
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    OK, back to this...

    I'm getting ready to order a Black Spire for my 2010 Pitch Pro. Someone earlier said it has the ISCG mount. I can't find it on the specs in their website though but is this correct?

    Also was looking for medium cage derailleurs but don't see anything like that at Jenson. I found this M985 that says it's for a double ring crankset but it doesn't say medium cage. The Specialized specs also say it has an "E type" derailleur but the photo of the E type on that page shows what looks to be a bottom bracket mount and mine does not look to be mounted that way. I'm also not sure if I wanna drop $110 on this right now. Trying to do stuff on the cheap so may just go with the chain tensioner for now.

    So, back to the technique. Once I get the tensioner and/or derailleur on (I don't have a stand) I'll put the bike upside down and remove the shock. Put the bike in big/big and move the rear triangle through it's travel making sure that at no point it pulls the rear derailleur further than ~45º. Remove links until I get that magic number then reassemble.

    Do I have it?

  72. #72
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    Mike, the stinger comes in either a BB mount or ISCG 05 mount.

    The derailleur you posted a link to is a front derailleur. A medium cage is referring to the rear derailleur. If you have a Sram rear now, you have to stay with Sram, same goes if you have a Shimano.

    The derailleur cage can go further than 45 degrees as long as it isn't binding and still shifts OK. I tend to run the chain pretty tight to keep from having chain slap, which really irritates me.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Christ, my head is starting to hurt. I thought this was gonna be simple and now I'm taking my Fing shock off... I'm sure it's simple... I'm just lazy. Should I Loctite my shock bolts when I put them back together?

    Thanks for all the info...
    I do not like to locktight anything , I get so many bikes that are really screwed up where you have to drill bolts out because of locktight, even after heating them up .

    So ...no do not locktight your shock, I use it only on select problem areas which are very few.

    Your "Black Spire Stinger" will be an ISCG 03 model , its the same one I run and the little thing works great !

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz View Post
    Mike, the stinger comes in either a BB mount or ISCG 05 mount.
    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    Your "Black Spire Stinger" will be an ISCG 03 model , its the same one I run and the little thing works great !
    So I know there is a ISCG and ISCG 05. Is ISCG 03 the same as ISCG?

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    OK, back to this...

    I'm getting ready to order a Black Spire for my 2010 Pitch Pro. Someone earlier said it has the ISCG mount. I can't find it on the specs in their website though but is this correct?

    Also was looking for medium cage derailleurs but don't see anything like that at Jenson. I found this M985 that says it's for a double ring crankset but it doesn't say medium cage. The Specialized specs also say it has an "E type" derailleur but the photo of the E type on that page shows what looks to be a bottom bracket mount and mine does not look to be mounted that way. I'm also not sure if I wanna drop $110 on this right now. Trying to do stuff on the cheap so may just go with the chain tensioner for now.

    So, back to the technique. Once I get the tensioner and/or derailleur on (I don't have a stand) I'll put the bike upside down and remove the shock. Put the bike in big/big and move the rear triangle through it's travel making sure that at no point it pulls the rear derailleur further than ~45º. Remove links until I get that magic number then reassemble.

    Do I have it?

    BTW
    Consider expanding your searches past Jenson, they are not the Be all/End all of cycling components e-tailers. I always find better deals than Jenson, so I rarely order from them. The intewebz are full of bike shops; start searching & save to your favorites list so you accumulate a vast collection of sources from which to purchase your latest goodies.
    Better deals = more goodies for your bike!
    Just sayin'

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    So I know there is a ISCG and ISCG 05. Is ISCG 03 the same as ISCG?
    ISCG refers to the tabs that are on your bike , ...( you have ISCG tabs on your bike ..."International Standard Chain Guide" )

    Your bolt hole size in the 03 standard size .....the small bolt hole circle .

    There is also an 05 standard which has a larger bolt hole circle which will not fit your Specialized bike.( unless you have a good tig welder and a lathe )

    If a bike does not have any ISCG tabs , you can clamp the stinger inbetween the BB cup on the rt side , and there are two sizes of these BB stingers ---------I do not like the BB mount , I will just make a ISCG tab bracket and weld it on the frame if I have to ......

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DustyBones View Post
    Consider expanding your searches past Jenson, they are not the Be all/End all of cycling components e-tailers. I always find better deals than Jenson, so I rarely order from them.
    True. Between Jenson and Price Point I can usually find what I'm looking for. I try to stick to them because I don't know anything about most of the others. Nothing worse than giving money to a company you knot nothing about and have problems either getting your merchandise or your money back.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    ISCG refers to the tabs that are on your bike , ...( you have ISCG tabs on your bike ..."International Standard Chain Guide" ) Your bolt hole size in the 03 standard size .....the small bolt hole circle. There is also an 05 standard which has a larger bolt hole circle which will not fit your Specialized bike.( unless you have a good tig welder and a lathe )
    Cool... Thanks for the clarification.

    I assume since no one has corrected my method of shortening the chain I've got a clear handle on it?

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    Mike hows the bash holding up? Im about to take the big ring off and cant decide between the race face and a thicker truvativ poly one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHNIPE View Post
    Mike hows the bash holding up? Im about to take the big ring off and cant decide between the race face and a thicker truvativ poly one.
    Holding up great. Leaving a little red paint here and there

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    True. Between Jenson and Price Point I can usually find what I'm looking for. I try to stick to them because I don't know anything about most of the others. Nothing worse than giving money to a company you knot nothing about and have problems either getting your merchandise or your money back.


    Cool... Thanks for the clarification.

    I assume since no one has corrected my method of shortening the chain I've got a clear handle on it?
    Just take one link out at a time and shift your chain on the big ft ring and the big rear cog and with the shock off just slowly cycle the rear up and down through your travel and make sure you do not bottom out the travel in your rear derailur .

    After you kinda get the hang of what position you need to have your chain in when selecting gears you can have your chain much tighter to a point.

    I run my chain tighter because I can not stand the noise , .......but however my bike can not be shifted into the big ft ring and the big rear cog at all , ........when I am in my big ft ring I only use my last 5 smaller cogs in the rear , I never go deeper than 5th.

    But at first just get it tight enough for the two big rings and start there .

  81. #81
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    Ive got the same RF bash only in sexy black....I took one link out and am running it as it til I get a midcage derailer....then Ill pull a 2nd link.

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    Everything makes sense but I'm not sure what you mean about:
    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    make sure you do not bottom out the travel in your rear derailur.

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    Meaning you dont want the derailer to pull so far forward it takes up all the spring and ends up breaking when the suspension is fully flexed and the chain is tight. (too tight)

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZG23 View Post
    Meaning you dont want the derailer to pull so far forward it takes up all the spring and ends up breaking when the suspension is fully flexed and the chain is tight. (too tight)
    Duh... damn. I was thinking about the suspension's travel, not the derailleur's travel. There I go trying to overthink something...

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Duh... damn. I was thinking about the suspension's travel, not the derailleur's travel. There I go trying to overthink something...
    Mike, I've done and redone my setup so many times, I've got the hang of it pretty well. I'm on the west side as well so if you ever need a hand, just give me a yell.

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz View Post
    Mike, I've done and redone my setup so many times, I've got the hang of it pretty well. I'm on the west side as well so if you ever need a hand, just give me a yell.
    I think I've got it now but I'll keep you in mind. Thanks!

  87. #87
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    I bet now you wish you had a hardtail, huh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by K3N View Post
    I bet now you wish you had a hardtail, huh?
    I've got one. Just filled the tires with air this afternoon 'cause they were completely flat. I only keep it because I can't stand the thought of giving it to someone for $150 when I have 11 years and nearly $700 into it. Plus, it's a spare in case my good bike breaks...

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    Everything makes sense but I'm not sure what you mean about:
    The rear derailur will only swing forward so far and then it hits the stop and if your chain is to short you will force the derailur past that and generally yank the derailur into the spokes and or brake the chain or both .

    When you start moving your wheel through the travel you will notice the chain will grow shorter and the derailur moves forward to make up for this growth , you just want to make sure that when your on the big rings and you reach your max chain growth by moving the rear wheel by hand that you have about 3/4" to maybe 1.25" of movement left in the derailur so you wont yank the derailur off your frame.

    Once you start playing with it you will see what its all doing , and its very understandable and easy to do .

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