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  1. #1
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    AZ Specialized Enduro riders.

    If you use granny is there much pedal feedback? Overall impressions of the bike for SOMO and PMP?

    Edit: By feedback I mean kickback. Not pedal bob. I also do not own an Enduro. It's on my short list along with a Nomad.
    Last edited by Cycle64; 06-19-2011 at 12:47 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    If you use granny is there much pedal feedback? Overall impressions of the bike for SOMO and PMP?
    What's a granny?
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    What's a granny?
    2. v. To throw an object by holding it in both hands and pitching it underhand, generally while bending the knees. Used often when referring to a style of throwing a basketball for those too weak or innacurate to make it to the hoop.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    If you use granny is there much pedal feedback? Overall impressions of the bike for SOMO and PMP?
    Horst link bikes (I have one currently and have had quite a few) will pedal better in the granny gear as far as squat is concerned (tendancy of the rear to compress as you pedal up steep inclines). They still do this though and are nowhere near the anti-squat of a DW link bike. Pedaling uphill on a horst link bike in middle ring is especially frustrating due to this, but granny is a bit better. Most people would equate this with "more" pedal feedback, although horst link bikes won't have 100% anti-squat and some bikes (some other dual link designs, some high single pivots) have more than 100% anti-squat, which is where pedal feedback usually comes in. 100% is kind of the "neutral" point where pedaling forces are offset by suspension anti-squat forces. The "excessive" anti-squat can be especially a pain when trying to climb real technical terrain where you need to have maximum traction, whereas on a downhill it's not nearly as bad. Traditionally, this is the way it is with high pivot single pivot bikes equipped with granny gears.

    Also traditionally, horst link bikes have weak anti-squat in the middle ring going uphill, pretty good on level slopes, ok anti-squat in the granny uphill (but not great IME), usually a good progressive suspension curve, lots of traction uphill, very active suspension overall, and poor performance on square-edged bumps.

    Higher pivot single pivot bikes usually have more anti-squat, less traction uphill due to it being excessive usually, better square-edged bump performance, less suspension activeness, and the progression curve depends on if it has a linkage or not usually.

    Lower pivot single pivot bikes usually are more active, with less anti-squat than the higher single pivot, more uphill traction than the higher pivot, poorer square-edged bump performance again, and generally a lot of "in between" the high SP and low SP.

    Mini-link/parallel-link (generic terms) frames can mirror ANY of these bikes and also allow things that are not possible with any of them, bringing together several desireable traits that allow you to "have your cake and eat it too". You can have decent square edged bump performance with great activeness and anti-squat (pedaling). Not all of these bikes are equal, so it depends on the exact bike/design, but they are a step ahead in my riding experience.
    Last edited by Jayem; 06-17-2011 at 08:27 PM.
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  5. #5
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    In addition to what Jayem posted- on any bike, having sound pedaling technique will help minimize bob. Spinning the pedals in near perfect circles, with power distributed as equal as possible through the entire 360 degrees of stroke puts less stress on the suspension and helps with traction. That makes a case for clip in shoes, but a good pedal "spin" can be done with flats.
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  6. #6
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    WTF did Jayem say ???

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    WTF did Jayem say ???
    What I got out of it was "get yourself a Singlespeed so you don't have to worry about any of this ****."
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  8. #8
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    Now that your master's degree in bicycle suspension has been written ...

    I had a '10 (new design) Enduro. Very nice bike. I've had several Horst bikes and the newer Enduro was arguably the best of them as far as pedalling is concerned. The newer Enduro's feel very slack and it's a big-feeling bike, particularly in wheelbase.

    Very, very low bottom bracket, though, which is a deal-killer for me on our terrain here.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    Now that your master's degree in bicycle suspension has been written ...

    I had a '10 (new design) Enduro. Very nice bike. I've had several Horst bikes and the newer Enduro was arguably the best of them as far as pedalling is concerned. The newer Enduro's feel very slack and it's a big-feeling bike, particularly in wheelbase.

    Very, very low bottom bracket, though, which is a deal-killer for me on our terrain here.

    That's higher or on par with many frame listings. Just a few listings.

    Enduro
    BB
    350 millimeter = 13.779 527 559 inch

    IBIS Mojo HD160
    BB
    352 millimeter = 13.858 267 717 inch

    Nomad
    BB 14.0

    EL Guapo
    BB
    13.8

    Chilcotin
    BB
    350 millimeter = 13.779 527 559 inch
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  10. #10
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    You could go with an EG for cheap and if you're worried about HA, you could always put an angleset on it. You already have the perfect fork for it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz View Post
    You could go with an EG for cheap and if you're worried about HA, you could always put an angleset on it. You already have the perfect fork for it.
    No angleset for tapered at this time. But the EG is crossing my view since we spoke. So is the Nomad. But I can't seem to find the shock size on it. Edit: Found it 8.5x2.5.

    PS: Let me know if you want to ride somewhere this weekend. Painter here in the morning Sat. But I'm game for a late day.
    Last edited by Cycle64; 06-17-2011 at 08:38 PM.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    What I got out of it was "get yourself a Singlespeed so you don't have to worry about any of this ****."
    Vassago Cycles, Shadetree Bikes, Flat Tire Bikes, Galfer Brakes USA

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    If you use granny is there much pedal feedback? Overall impressions of the bike for SOMO and PMP?
    I ride a HL Enduro, and I have very little legs so most all of my climbing is in granny , ( generally granny 3-4 or 5 ) granny 2-3 all the way up Bees Knees .

    There is no pedal feed back felt at all , I ride somo alot and climb up natty in granny 3 -4.

    I ride this bike everywhere and it works very well , alittle heavy for XC but it works ok there as well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by skinny-tire View Post
    What I got out of it was "get yourself a Singlespeed so you don't have to worry about any of this ****."

    You ride one. So no way will I ever! As will I never drive a Prius.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    WTF did Jayem say ???
    I tried to read it when I woke up from my afternoon nap and it gave me a headache. Was too much info to process
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  16. #16
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    I have owned an older enduro 06 and ride my sxtrail everywhere. I don't feel any pedal feedback while climbing in granny. however I feel the pedal feedback on my jedi and it is an odd feeling having my pedals move when I dont want them to because of suspension action.
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
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  17. #17
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    Pedal feedback in granny is my only complaint about the Rune. It is a weird feeling having the pedal kick back at you.

  18. #18
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    Dunno...have ridden Enduros and other horst link bikes like Norco North Shores. Never felt any pedal feedback, kickback, or whatever back in climbing or any other form of pedaling. Pretty plush suspension that makes you want to just go out and rip the GNAR on it. Sure MR. Hill doesn't feel any kick back on his horst link beast either.

  19. #19
    suvlako
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    Own what used to be Blatant's enduro and it climbs like a goat. I never get that feedback(which I would refer to as "pedal bob"). If you are, it sounds like you can be a little light on air in your shock. Be sure to add air with your " pro pedal" on.

  20. #20
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    Look into warranties. Everything WILL break...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by berzerker View Post
    Look into warranties. Everything WILL break...
    Even Kali pads in a month. Wish I knew someone at Trek. Maybe they could fine a Remedy or Scratch frame for me.
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  22. #22
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    hey guys,, ive made it quite clear that my 16 year old trek Y-bike will NOT be used for AZ trail riding (unless someone wants to rebuild it into a SS FS for hire).
    i see that DNA cycles has the enduro SL expert on closeout for over $1000 off
    http://dnacycles.com/product/special...rt-59613-1.htm

    except for 1 hawes and 1 somo ride in the past 14 months, i've only known relatively flat forest (600'-700' MSL) all my life.
    My riding style: i'm not into super tech, drops, or air, but i still want something that can handle those if if inadvertently encounter them. i also have an acquired habit of standing up on 90% of the ride, something i will need to unlearn here if i want to make it up the climbs without spinning out the back tir

    can i get any comments for or against plopping down 3 grand on one of these next weekend?
    Last edited by longhairmike; 06-20-2011 at 11:10 PM.

  23. #23
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    Mike- I'll be honest, if you are looking ofr some high zoot machinery- I think you will like that bike. But as far as a bike for "in case" you hit some tech while on your XC ride, just about any bike will do. I ride a SSHT 29 w/ an 80mm fork. I can pretty much hit 90% of anything most trails out here dish out short of something like NRA (true dirt jumping), and I could probably do that too, but my skill would run out before my bike would! Your old bike needs retired to grocery getter though, I will say that!
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Pedaling uphill on a horst link bike in middle ring is especially frustrating due to this, but granny is a bit better.
    I think you're just weak. Never a problem climbing w/ my Quasi, always in the middle ring. I also think _dw will get a torsion injury if you keep swinging so hard from his jewels.

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    Mike , I'm on for the fossil ride and after party @ Hero's or the Monestary !!(your new local Pub)!!
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  26. #26
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    Rode and 08/09 Enduro last night. Very plush seemed to wear me out a little more then I would have thought. But it was hot out late in the day yesterday. I'll be trying a Firebird in the near future.

    So my short list is the Nomad, which I have not ridden. Enduro, which I have to buy a complete bike for it to make sense. Then sell off all the parts I'm not going to use. As I have all new stuff already. The Pivot Firebird. I hear many around here have them and happy withthe performace. I'll see how the demo ride goes. But it's hard to tell after a single ride if a bike is going to be the one long term. Also like the IBIS Mojo HD. Not sure Carbon & the fat kid will be getting along over time. Road bike sure but mountain!
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  27. #27
    suvlako
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    Do yourself a favor and demo a 2011 Enduro. Not even closd to the same bike. The 08-09's were a bit flexier thN the new ones. Surf city specialized alwaya blows them out at the end of the season.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by suvlako View Post
    Do yourself a favor and demo a 2011 Enduro. Not even closd to the same bike. The 08-09's were a bit flexier thN the new ones. Surf city specialized alwaya blows them out at the end of the season.
    One I rode last night was a fancy carbon one. Did not noticed any flex.
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  29. #29
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    The '10 and newer Enduros are a much different bike than the previous models.

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    I ride a 2008 Giant Reign 1 and I am considering buying an Enduro comp. because of the more DH geometry and more travel.

    I do not question the downhill capabilities of the enduro, but do u think I can climb like mormon or national with an enduro comp with no travel adjust fork ? I can do that with my Reign.

    Do u have any comments on the uphill side of that bike ? I am trying to find a demo day with not much success..

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokbm View Post
    I ride a 2008 Giant Reign 1 and I am considering buying an Enduro comp. because of the more DH geometry and more travel.

    I do not question the downhill capabilities of the enduro, but do u think I can climb like mormon or national with an enduro comp with no travel adjust fork ? I can do that with my Reign.

    Do u have any comments on the uphill side of that bike ? I am trying to find a demo day with not much success..
    I have travel adj on my Enduro and would never ever use it ever , I climb natty and or Mormon with no problem or ever wanting to drop the fork, It all just depends on how well you have set your bike up and how well you ride it.

    You should be able to go to "Global Bike" and ride their Test enduro so you could at least ride one at SoMo and see for your self .

    Natty or Mormon are nat to bad , you should get the Test Enduro and come out to Bees Knees and climb that bad boy , ...that thing will let you know if you have the balance of your bike correct !

  32. #32
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    Hey Kelstr, thanks for the reply.... I've done bees knees a couple times on my Reign. I went to global bikes but they did not mention to have a test enduro.... Too bad because I am ready to pull the trigger. What year is your enduro ? when do u ride somo we can hook up for a spin ?

  33. #33
    suvlako
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    Which GB did you go to? What size are you looking for? I saw a few Carbon pros on ebay. Check it out, they are a real deal.

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    I went to Price X Ray and Az Ave X 202

    At landys they have a medium but riding the parking lot does not mean anything to me.... I would love to test ride it at any SOMO trail.

  35. #35
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    Enduro climbs very well in my opinion. I'm not a good climber and have very little issues with my Lyrik set at 170. To this date, the Enduro is the best bike I have owned.
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  36. #36
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    Cycle64, what trails do u usually climb ?

    I am thinking there will be one more enduro on SOMO trails soon :-)

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokbm View Post
    Hey Kelstr, thanks for the reply.... I've done bees knees a couple times on my Reign. I went to global bikes but they did not mention to have a test enduro.... Too bad because I am ready to pull the trigger. What year is your enduro ? when do u ride somo we can hook up for a spin ?
    I have the 08 Enduro SL , the head angle is slackened to 66 degrees and the travel has been increased to 165 ft and 160 rear .

    We generally ride tuesday, thursday and saturday mornings at 0500 , would love to have you come out

    Tomorrow morning we will be at Bees Knees , all are welcome for the pain, come on out if you can make it .

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokbm View Post
    Cycle64, what trails do u usually climb ?

    I am thinking there will be one more enduro on SOMO trails soon :-)
    I mostly ride in the Phoenix Mountain Preserve. I know a couple people with 08 & 10 Enduro's which ride SOMO all the time. I don't foresee them switching brands anytime soon.
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  39. #39
    suvlako
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    Just buy it. You will not be dissappointed.

  40. #40
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    I have an "08 Stumpy Comp and am looking for a little more bike... maybe I should demo an Enduro.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    maybe I should demo an Enduro.
    Do it.
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  42. #42
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    I have an '07 Enduro and love it. I have not had a reason to upgrade anything on it, and have had it since new. I have climbed Natty with it just fine and never adjusted the Talas fork on it, although I do adjust from time to time just to play around with it. Still the best bike I've ever ridden.

  43. #43
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    Me wants a carbon stumpy evo!!!!!
    Bender to AZDog: I'm not the best person to give advice on not riding!

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by azdog View Post
    Me wants a carbon stumpy evo!!!!!
    Do it.




    Can I ride it pretty please??????????
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  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    I have the 08 Enduro SL , the head angle is slackened to 66 degrees and the travel has been increased to 165 ft and 160 rear .
    The OP should keep in mind that Kelly can climb anything and make it look easy. And can do it while beetching the whole time about the wife, dog, work and never be out of breath.

    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    We generally ride tuesday, thursday and saturday mornings at 0500 , would love to have you come out

    Tomorrow morning we will be at Bees Knees , all are welcome for the pain, come on out if you can make it .
    One of the days I'll have to come out and bring your group's average WAAAAAY down Never ridden Bees Knees. I'll have to try it some day.

    Back on topic, I've got a U-Turn fork and have never even thought about dropping it. Nor do I engage my Pro Pedal. I don't know that I've got my bike setup really well but I'm definitely lazy. I ride it the way it is and don't blame the bike when I don't clean things. It's usually my fault anyway...

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    I have the 08 Enduro SL , the head angle is slackened to 66 degrees and the travel has been increased to 165 ft and 160 rear .

    We generally ride tuesday, thursday and saturday mornings at 0500 , would love to have you come out

    Tomorrow morning we will be at Bees Knees , all are welcome for the pain, come on out if you can make it .
    Kelstr ... I think I know who you are ... When I am coming to ride there are always 3 guys finishing the ride between 6 to 630... Man 5am its way to early for me :-)

    Regarding the bike, I am between adding an angleset + lyrik 160mm to my 2008 Reign if I go this route I need to replace my front hub to 20mm instead of 9mm qr (this build will be similar from what u have) or buying a new enduro ... I love my reign but I think I will spend more money and still have a 2008 bike.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by leokbm View Post
    Kelstr ... I think I know who you are ... When I am coming to ride there are always 3 guys finishing the ride between 6 to 630... Man 5am its way to early for me :-)

    Regarding the bike, I am between adding an angleset + lyrik 160mm to my 2008 Reign if I go this route I need to replace my front hub to 20mm instead of 9mm qr (this build will be similar from what u have) or buying a new enduro ... I love my reign but I think I will spend more money and still have a 2008 bike.
    Yes that is our group coming down , ...now I know who you are I have seen you several times.
    That Reign is a great bike , you could definitely change it up to fit your riding style better and keep it !
    ( depending on your ft hub , sometimes you can just get the 20mm end caps and pop your 9mm's off and your 20's on )

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post

    One of the days I'll have to come out and bring your group's average WAAAAAY down Never ridden Bees Knees. I'll have to try it some day.

    ...
    Mike you would bring nothing buy class to our group .
    You would love Bees Knees Mike , .......Its a vision quest ......I have some fresh "Peyote" ready , your 3rd eye is opened and you gain wisdom through the pain and the psychoactive alkaloids .......

    Sorry got off on a tangent there , anyhow you would love it .......( plane on loosing 2 days or so ).......the visions can be very intense and last along time ....

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    Mike you would bring nothing buy class to our group .
    I don't think I'd bring class to a Hell's Angels convention...

    Quote Originally Posted by kelstr View Post
    You would love Bees Knees Mike , .......Its a vision quest ......I have some fresh "Peyote" ready , your 3rd eye is opened and you gain wisdom through the pain and the psychoactive alkaloids .......

    Sorry got off on a tangent there , anyhow you would love it .......( plane on loosing 2 days or so ).......the visions can be very intense and last along time ....
    So, do I actually have to make it the whole way up in order to get these benefits? I suspect you guys would be coming back on the return trip when I just begin to crest the top of BK...

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by big0mike View Post
    I don't think I'd bring class to a Hell's Angels convention...


    So, do I actually have to make it the whole way up in order to get these benefits? I suspect you guys would be coming back on the return trip when I just begin to crest the top of BK...
    You actually go in west up BK and the you climb out east on the Gila trail , its a 6.5 mile circle .

    Its a real slow pace because its steep and it just keeps climbing , everybody stays together .

    Mike you always bring a bump up in class no matter where you go

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