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  1. #1
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    Another Sedona post, I know, not again!

    It seems like there is a little bit of drama going on around the subject of riding in Sedona. It's a shame because it is such an amazing destination with some really fun, exciting and challenging trails.
    I will be out there this Friday, the 24th through the following Friday and will be doing at least 3-4 rides if anyone wants to join. I rode highline an hangover last time and loved them. Rode more designated trails the year before. Im always up fr something new and challenging if anyone has any suggestions. If not, I know enough to have a good time.

  2. #2
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    We're gettin some rain southwest of Sedona at the moment, with more forcast for the next couple of days. If you're gonna camp...bring a tent.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62kona View Post
    It seems like there is a little bit of drama going on around the subject of riding in Sedona. It's a shame because it is such an amazing destination with some really fun, exciting and challenging trails.
    I will be out there this Friday, the 24th through the following Friday and will be doing at least 3-4 rides if anyone wants to join. I rode highline an hangover last time and loved them. Rode more designated trails the year before. Im always up fr something new and challenging if anyone has any suggestions. If not, I know enough to have a good time.
    kona:

    How good a rider are you, and how good are you at following directions? Did you have any issues with Hangover on the steep sections?

    TD

  4. #4
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    TD, regardless of the volunteer work you've done, you are a poor ambassador for Sedona. After reading these drama threads from 5k miles away and with no dog in the fight or ax (hoe?) to grind, I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. No longer. I suspect your many critics are spot on. Kona said he loved Hangover - period. What purpose is there in calling him out with such a rude post? Who the heck are YOU! Well I guess you've already answered that many times over: Narcissist, egomaniac, drama queen, king of trolls, pedant... If I had your wife's email address I'd recommend she hide the computer from you and start planning for the intervention. What ever good you've done for Sedona trail riding, you've negated many times over. Ignore button from now on.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    TD, regardless of the volunteer work you've done, you are a poor ambassador for Sedona. After reading these drama threads from 5k miles away and with no dog in the fight or ax (hoe?) to grind, I've been trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. No longer. I suspect your many critics are spot on. Kona said he loved Hangover - period. What purpose is there in calling him out with such a rude post? Who the heck are YOU! Well I guess you've already answered that many times over: Narcissist, egomaniac, drama queen, king of trolls, pedant... If I had your wife's email address I'd recommend she hide the computer from you and start planning for the intervention. What ever good you've done for Sedona trail riding, you've negated many times over. Ignore button from now on.
    Wow velo I am going to share the goods with a fellow rider and you think I am a dirt bag. The trail I was going to offer () is a lot more steep than Hangover, so I wanted to see if kona was comfortable with steep slickrock and routing on slickrock where there is no distinguishable trail.

    As you say I must be all those things you are accusing me of.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Wow velo I am going to share the goods with a fellow rider and you think I am a dirt bag.
    As you say I must be all those things you are accusing me of.
    Right. You see veloborealis...traildoc is not a really bad fellow. He just does bad things!

    Because...just as a broken clock can be right twice a day, so can a Narcissist, egomaniac, drama queen, king of trolls, pedant retired old fart of a mountain biker occasionally direct a newb to a mountain bike trail.

    TD. These trails you are going to show 62kona. These are legal, authorized, sanctioned, FS permitted trails are they not? Wouldn't want to see him get arrested, kicked out of the forrest and fined a thousand bucks.

  7. #7
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    TD. These trails you are going to show 62kona. These are legal, authorized, sanctioned, FS permitted trails are they not?

    NOPE, he needs to go to Bike & Bean for those trails. I think they took a group down it recently, check out their facebook page


    Wouldn't want to see him get arrested, kicked out of the forest and fined a thousand bucks.

    I am more concerned he will get lost, but their is good cell service so he can call me for directions.

  8. #8
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    can we please just ban TD so we can have a discussion about sedona without the chest thumping?

  9. #9
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    If there were any moderation at all in this forum, he would've been banned years ago.

  10. #10
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    Remember we ran the mods off lol...Back in the day of unicorns, tummy sticks and meat rainbows
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  11. #11
    Meatbomb
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    .Back in the day of unicorns, tummy sticks and meat rainbows
    Is that the name of 3 user built trails that only 70% of the 30%'rs can ride? Or just gay tourons in the motorcasa?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by clockwork View Post
    Remember we ran the mods off lol...Back in the day of unicorns, tummy sticks and meat rainbows
    I still cringe at that one censored pic of the broken finger...I miss chuck's humor

  13. #13
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    BAN the MOFO!

    FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!
    REALLY, TD STFU!
    "Wisdom is the Chief element of happiness, and then there is ice cream!"

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    Is that the name of 3 user built trails that only 70% of the 30%'rs can ride? Or just gay tourons in the motorcasa?
    the later
    Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of
    arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body.

  15. #15
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    Wow, that got out of hand quick! haha.
    Thanks TD, the trail in that video looks awesome. I handled the steep parts on hangover fine. I like steep and rough. I usually ride DH so thats my style.
    I'm pretty good with directions i guess, but if i have to constantly stop to read where to go next, i think it takes the fun out of the ride. If its really easy to get lost without checking for directions every 5 minutes, maybe it would be best if I rode that trail with someone who knows it. I know your out of town, so is there anyone else who likes riding that stuff who might want to go out next week. As long as it dries up soon.

  16. #16
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    And how do the trails in the area take heavy rain? Do they get beaten up and need a few days to dry out or they just get tacky and perfect? You guys usually ride right after rain?
    I know in my area, some trails are perfect after rain, others we stay off of for a few days.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blatant View Post
    If there were any moderation at all in this forum, he would've been banned years ago.
    Amen.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62kona View Post
    And how do the trails in the area take heavy rain? Do they get beaten up and need a few days to dry out or they just get tacky and perfect? You guys usually ride right after rain?
    I know in my area, some trails are perfect after rain, others we stay off of for a few days.
    kona:

    I hope you are enjoying the passion the AZ MTBR forum provides. Your post is the perfect example of how the sharing of great trails works. If I was in town I would show you what I consider to be the best ride in Sedona.

    There are others like helimech that ride the trail and share it with others, but heli is a responsible working man and doesn't always have the time to show others around.

    There are others that know the route and may PM you. Due to the steepness I would not recommend it in the rain unless you are in the Wade Simmons category of rider. That being said the best area shortly after a heavy rain period is West Sedona near the High School.

    Special Ed, Pyramid, Witch Doctor, Under the Radar, Templeton, Easy Breezy, Slim Shady, Highline and Baldwin are pretty much all weather trails.

    Good luck with your stay.

    TD

  19. #19
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    What traildoc said.

    And if you're gonna camp...bring a tent.

  20. #20
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    I'd rather read the tummy stick, meat rainbow, ginger docking and vuvuzala threads than anything by some really old guys from the great red north.

  21. #21
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    Yet, here your are, reading it anyway. Life is funny, aye single Speed?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Amen.
    So do you want moderation or not? Or just when you snap your fingers? Because I'm telling you, we're getting extremely mixed messages from the AZ community.

    Nobody has yet done the work I specifically requested. To restate: provide links and explanations of what posting guidelines you feel are being violated, and we'll begin the review process for timeouts and/or bans.

    If your reaction to that is "duh, that's the moderator's job," well... you're wrong. It isn't. Maybe it's unclear what it is moderators do, but I can tell you that evaluating every post in every thread is not part of it.

    So once more: read the guidelines, provide links, explain your reasoning. PM me and/or David with it.

    p.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Centurion_ View Post
    Yet, here your are, reading it anyway. Life is funny, aye single Speed?
    You must be one of the old guys. Hi old guy. Yep , I'm here, busted. Your irony meter is top shelf for your age.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    So do you want moderation or not? Or just when you snap your fingers? Because I'm telling you, we're getting extremely mixed messages from the AZ community.

    Nobody has yet done the work I specifically requested. To restate: provide links and explanations of what posting guidelines you feel are being violated, and we'll begin the review process for timeouts and/or bans.

    If your reaction to that is "duh, that's the moderator's job," well... you're wrong. It isn't. Maybe it's unclear what it is moderators do, but I can tell you that evaluating every post in every thread is not part of it.

    So once more: read the guidelines, provide links, explain your reasoning. PM me and/or David with it.

    p.


    Do not go and get your moderator panties in a bunch Paul. If you cannot see the disruption to the forum with all this Sedona crap. Not sure what to tell you. Does TD bait people in sure! That alone should be addressed with him. Little common sense is all that is needed by the moderators and users. TD is not going to stop and if I or anyone else stops responding to him. Someone else will step in, it is the nature of the beast. So you let these problems continue and tell more and more to ignore him. Explain to me how these Sedona threads look to the new member coming to the AZ forum for riding info. Is the goal to promote riding in AZ or have three threads a day started by TD about the same thing he posted the day before?

    You want specifics? Show me where in the rules it states. Users can bait others into debates simply to disrupt the forum for personal gratification?

    Edit:

    7.) The message is posted as "flame-bait" and is posted to incite flames and insults.

    Apply it to which ever thread you want. I could find dozens.

    Last edited by Cycle64; 08-24-2012 at 10:01 AM.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  25. #25
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    A simple solution is to ignore what you don't want to read. Yah it's annoying but to each their own. This is the first TD/Sedona thread I've clicked on for months. I chose not to click on the other 983 threads.
    No Mods needed.

  26. #26
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    You can't ban someone because they're annoying you. Some of you can't wait until Traildoc posts something just so you can hit reply. It's really rather pathetic. Just leave the guy alone and don't repond to his posts. But you can't can you?

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    You can't ban someone because they're annoying you. Some of you can't wait until Traildoc posts something just so you can hit reply. It's really rather pathetic. Just leave the guy alone and don't repond to his posts. But you can't can you?
    rock:

    It is amazing the amount of time several viewers spend on the AZ forum having discussions with me. I feel sorry for their kids if they are parents, I feel sorry for their wives if they are married, I fell sorry for their significant others whoever they are.

    My hope is that the new viewers can get through the useless posts and get the Intel of the great Sedona riding.

    TD

  28. #28
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    You are not a victim, Tim. You have options!

    1. Block/ignore users you don't want to read.
    2. Report specific infractions and ask for specific redress. This has already happened regarding various users, not necessarily just Traildoc, and the supermods and overlords are reviewing them now.

    General infractions and general redress ("I get sad when X posts, do something about it") are not going to get you anywhere. Name-calling and other direct intervention will probably get you banned, so I strongly advise ignoring/blocking folks who make you sad. If you're physically/emotionally incapable of ignoring/blocking people who make you sad, man up, do the work, and we'll do what we can.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  29. #29
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    I suggest the buddy system. Have someone who cares prevent you from clicking the TD posts.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  30. #30
    skilldest©
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    Now THAT is a clicking buddy!!!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    You are not a victim, Tim. You have options!

    1. Block/ignore users you don't want to read.
    2. Report specific infractions and ask for specific redress. This has already happened regarding various users, not necessarily just Traildoc, and the supermods and overlords are reviewing them now.

    General infractions and general redress ("I get sad when X posts, do something about it") are not going to get you anywhere. Name-calling and other direct intervention will probably get you banned, so I strongly advise ignoring/blocking folks who make you sad. If you're physically/emotionally incapable of ignoring/blocking people who make you sad, man up, do the work, and we'll do what we can.
    Can you explain how rule seven does not apply too many of Traildoc's threads?

    I like your coy attempt to divert this as my physical and/or emotional issue. I am not sad and could really careless what TD does or how it looks on MTBR. I am simply making an argument since you called me out for saying Amen. If that upsets you well not much I can do about that now is there.

    I am done debating it with you online. Got something to say to me, PM me I'll be happy to listen.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    You can't ban someone because they're annoying you. Some of you can't wait until Traildoc posts something just so you can hit reply. It's really rather pathetic. Just leave the guy alone and don't repond to his posts. But you can't can you?
    Been there, tried that. If he's going to treat the MTBR masss as children, then he deserves the same. It's a calculated effort.

    Sorry, but he brought this on himself by not living the Golden Rule.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    You are not a victim, Tim. You have options!

    1. Block/ignore users you don't want to read.
    2. Report specific infractions and ask for specific redress. This has already happened regarding various users, not necessarily just Traildoc, and the supermods and overlords are reviewing them now.

    General infractions and general redress ("I get sad when X posts, do something about it") are not going to get you anywhere. Name-calling and other direct intervention will probably get you banned, so I strongly advise ignoring/blocking folks who make you sad. If you're physically/emotionally incapable of ignoring/blocking people who make you sad, man up, do the work, and we'll do what we can.
    Why on earth would MTBR ever ban Traildoc? His borderline sociopathic posts drive on-line traffic. And MTBR makes money based on traffic. In fact, I'm starting to think that TD is on the payroll.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tpvet73 View Post
    Why on earth would MTBR ever ban Traildoc? His borderline sociopathic posts drive on-line traffic. And MTBR makes money based on traffic. In fact, I'm starting to think that TD is on the payroll.
    That is an extremely good point! He's in pretty tight with Francois the MTBR Ultralord. They were rogue trail builders together back in the day in the Bay area

  35. #35
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    I have actually given in and put TD on the ignore list awhile back. The noise is way more than anything mountain bike value-add (for me anyway). He knows exactly what he is doing.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    That is an extremely good point! He's in pretty tight with Francois the MTBR Ultralord. They were rogue trail builders together back in the day in the Bay area
    Wait, isn't mt biking either not allowed or heavly restricted in the Bay area? Hhmmmm
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Can you explain how rule seven does not apply too many of Traildoc's threads?

    I like your coy attempt to divert this as my physical and/or emotional issue. I am not sad and could really careless what TD does or how it looks on MTBR. I am simply making an argument since you called me out for saying Amen. If that upsets you well not much I can do about that now is there.

    I am done debating it with you online. Got something to say to me, PM me I'll be happy to listen.
    good lord, you are awful.

    the guy (td) was trying to help someone looking for trail info. checks to see if the op was comfortable with the exposure/steepness in order to assess whether another trail would be a good choice. some velo******bag guy comes roaring to the rescue of someone not needing rescue and then you all come running with torches and ropes.

    pathetic... and funny. you know how it sounds for a grown man (im making a big assumption here) to cry for more moderation on the interwebs? embarrassing.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    You are not a victim, Tim. You have options!

    1. Block/ignore users you don't want to read.
    2. Report specific infractions and ask for specific redress. This has already happened regarding various users, not necessarily just Traildoc, and the supermods and overlords are reviewing them now.

    General infractions and general redress ("I get sad when X posts, do something about it") are not going to get you anywhere. Name-calling and other direct intervention will probably get you banned, so I strongly advise ignoring/blocking folks who make you sad. If you're physically/emotionally incapable of ignoring/blocking people who make you sad, man up, do the work, and we'll do what we can.
    Paul:

    I want to thank-you for clearing up the posting protocol. Let's hope some of the viewers take your suggestions to heart.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    Paul:

    I want to thank-you for clearing up the posting protocol. Let's hope some of the viewers take your suggestions to heart.
    There you go again TD. FYI, we're not a dum as you think we is.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    That is an extremely good point! He's in pretty tight with Francois the MTBR Ultralord. They were rogue trail builders together back in the day in the Bay area
    rockman:

    It is true Francois and I were friends the last time I broke bread with him. But it is not true that he and I ever worked on a rogue trail together. I believe I did possibly work with him on maintenance and re-route projects at Soquel Demo Forest. Lately I have joined in on several of the great barbecues he and his buddies put on after the Wednesday bike rides at Skeggs Point.

    He once told me that there were some people on MTBR that don't like me and if I wanted to increase my rep power it would be better to shorten my posts.

    We're heading to McCall tomorrow to check out the riding. Got any ideas of which trails to try out?

    TD
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Another Sedona post, I know, not again!-023a.jpg  

    Another Sedona post, I know, not again!-022a.jpg  

    Another Sedona post, I know, not again!-024a.jpg  


  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    He once told me that ... if I wanted to increase my rep power it would be better to shorten my posts.

    TD
    There is a reason he makes the big bucks. He's a smart man.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy_ending View Post
    good lord, you are awful.

    the guy (td) was trying to help someone looking for trail info. checks to see if the op was comfortable with the exposure/steepness in order to assess whether another trail would be a good choice. some velo******bag guy comes roaring to the rescue of someone not needing rescue and then you all come running with torches and ropes.

    pathetic... and funny. you know how it sounds for a grown man (im making a big assumption here) to cry for more moderation on the interwebs? embarrassing.
    HE:

    I was responding to Paul for calling me out for saying Amen to another users post. He asked if a person violates a rule let him know. I simply did that as Rule 7 applies to many of TD's posts plain and simple.

    For the record, I don't care if they moderate the forum or not. Just be consistent if with the hand slapping one way or the other.
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    Can you explain how rule seven does not apply too many of Traildoc's threads?

    I like your coy attempt to divert this as my physical and/or emotional issue. I am not sad and could really careless what TD does or how it looks on MTBR. I am simply making an argument since you called me out for saying Amen. If that upsets you well not much I can do about that now is there.

    I am done debating it with you online. Got something to say to me, PM me I'll be happy to listen.
    Nothing coy about it, Tim. Link me to a specific post you feel specifically violates Rule 7. Do not point me to "many" of his threads. Point to a thread, make the argument that it's in violation and why, and I'll take it from there.

    The same applies to anyone who has a problem with another poster and cannot avoid the issue via blocking or exerting some willpower. If you have a problem, flag it and forget it.
    Don't be that guy! Read the forum guidelines.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cycle64 View Post
    HE:

    I was responding to Paul for calling me out for saying Amen to another users post. He asked if a person violates a rule let him know. I simply did that as Rule 7 applies to many of TD's posts plain and simple.

    For the record, I don't care if they moderate the forum or not. Just be consistent if with the hand slapping one way or the other.
    trust me, i knew where your response was pointed. just commented on that as well as the general tone of an otherwise innocuous thread.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by happy_ending View Post
    velo******bag guy comes roaring to the rescue of someone not needing rescue and then you all come running with torches and ropes.
    You don't think TD's online persona had anything to do with that?

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again. TD's like the boy who cried wolf. Many don take anything he post seriously any more unfortunately.
    Nobody gives a s#$t you singlespeed.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Observer View Post
    Many don take anything he post seriously any more unfortunately.
    True!
    Currently at Mayo Clinic being tested for a kidney transplant. Donors welcome.

  47. #47
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    What really needs to be determined is What happens to all the Porn where the actors are wearing the LIVESTRONG bracelets ? Will they get an asterisk ?

  48. #48
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    Hey that's me you're talking about.

    In retrospect, I agree with you. If you take him at his word, it appears TD was trying to be helpful to the OP and I jumped in on the mistaken assumption that he was calling the OP out about his skills. But I made those assumptions based on TD's past behavior on this forum and I question whether it's helpful to start out a "friendly" suggestion about a trail to ride by asking how a good a rider he is or whether he can follow directions.

    I would suggest such a subject be broached along the lines of, "If you liked Hangover, your might like trail A, B, or C." But we all have our own "style" I guess. As an "ambassador" for Sedona, TD has little or no grasp of diplomacy or the tone of his posts. His credibility also seems to be evaporating like a puddle on a redrock summer day.

    I plan to simply ignore him from now on, but I wouldn't want him banned. It's more fun to watch him self destruct. One last thought: Can you imagine spending one vacation day, let alone one's entire retirement, posting as relentlessly asTD does on this forum? What may have started as a way for TD to serve his "community" (a commendable notion) has turned into a form of public masturbation. Makes me want to gouge out my eyes, but yes I keep looking. I think I need to go ride my bike. VB

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    Quote Originally Posted by veloborealis View Post
    Hey that's me you're talking about.

    In retrospect, I agree with you. If you take him at his word, it appears TD was trying to be helpful to the OP and I jumped in on the mistaken assumption that he was calling the OP out about his skills.
    VB
    VB:

    It's nice to see you realize I provide a nice service to fellow advanced mountain bikers looking for Intel on the Sedona trail system. Unfortunately in Sedona the user built trail system is not signed, so navigating on our trails is confusing, if you don't have one of my comprehensive maps to help you out.

    I also provide numerous loop suggestions(EveryTrail Trips by johnf0246 - page 1 - order: creation date | EveryTrail) on Everytrail.com. Those loop suggestions have ride descriptions that also help riders determine if the ride fits their style of riding along with videos of the ride being reviewed.

    If being informative about Sedona riding is not what you consider ambassador like I am curious what would you call it?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by _dragon View Post
    Now THAT is a clicking buddy!!!
    Yeah, I would click that buddy.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    rockman:

    We're heading to McCall tomorrow to check out the riding. Got any ideas of which trails to try out?

    TD
    Loon Lake and Goose Creek are great rides. I've heard good things about Bear Basin. Lots of info here: Trails near McCall, ID??

    Go much further east and you will encounter the inferno. Otherwise, skirt south to Jackson. City of Rocks is worth a stop if your looking for a camping spot. There is also riding nearby in the South Hills.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Another Sedona post, I know, not again!-678213main_20120820-idaho_800-600.jpg  


  52. #52
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    I still want to hook up with TD and do some rides in Sedona.
    Keep The Rubber Side Down

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. D View Post
    I still want to hook up with TD and do some rides in Sedona.
    Mr. D:

    Good to here there is still one person left who is willing to give it a try. If you sign up in the next couple years I will give you a free tour and a free shuttle. As you may know I am on tour until Dec 6, so let me know when you plan to come to town.

    I am working on some newer maps like the two I just did for the Bike & Bean area so let me know if I can put a custom map together for you. I apologize for not being there before Dec 6th, if you were coming earlier.

    TD

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul B View Post
    You are not a victim, Tim. You have options!

    1. Block/ignore users you don't want to read.
    2. Report specific infractions and ask for specific redress. This has already happened regarding various users, not necessarily just Traildoc, and the supermods and overlords are reviewing them now.

    General infractions and general redress ("I get sad when X posts, do something about it") are not going to get you anywhere. Name-calling and other direct intervention will probably get you banned, so I strongly advise ignoring/blocking folks who make you sad. If you're physically/emotionally incapable of ignoring/blocking people who make you sad, man up, do the work, and we'll do what we can.
    Rule #1---Why was my "Hello Titties" avatar deleted by a mod on here when a user complained about it? His complaint was his young daughter was a Hello Kitty fan and asked him about it. I asked the mod what the hell the guy does when he is watching TV or driving down the road and see's something objectionable? Why was that user not advised by the moderator to just use the "ignore" function? If they had ignored me, they would not see my posts and not have to worry about it. Instead, the mod got lazy and removed my avatar.
    I ignored TD and TPS long ago, banning them just makes them mad and they will come back with another screen name (been done by a few others banned in the past already) and validates them. TD is of no good the the MTB community as a whole in my opinion, yet I respect his right as an American citizen to say whatever he feels, no matter how ignorant or disrespectful I think it is.

    Just wondering Paul, why the inconsistent moderation?

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by cstem View Post
    Rule #1---Why was my "Hello Titties" avatar deleted by a mod on here when a user complained about it? His complaint was his young daughter was a Hello Kitty fan and asked him about it. I asked the mod what the hell the guy does when he is watching TV or driving down the road and see's something objectionable? Why was that user not advised by the moderator to just use the "ignore" function? If they had ignored me, they would not see my posts and not have to worry about it. Instead, the mod got lazy and removed my avatar.
    I ignored TD and TPS long ago, banning them just makes them mad and they will come back with another screen name (been done by a few others banned in the past already) and validates them. TD is of no good the the MTB community as a whole in my opinion, yet I respect his right as an American citizen to say whatever he feels, no matter how ignorant or disrespectful I think it is.

    Just wondering Paul, why the inconsistent moderation?
    cstem:

    I think Paul asked you for specific examples. Just because someone has a different POV than you doesn't mean their POV isn't valid or their employment experience isn't valid.

    As an ex insurance broker I gave you my opinion, you didn't like it and discovered I was either right or wrong or somewhere in between, that's what I call becoming informed.

    Life is based on lots of personal choices, hopefully as individuals we make more good ones than bad ones.

  56. #56
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    cstem,
    I think the answer to your question is in post 43...
    ...Link me to a specific post you feel specifically violates Rule 7. Do not point me to "many" of his threads. Point to a thread, make the argument that it's in violation and why, and I'll take it from there.

    The same applies to anyone who has a problem with another poster and cannot avoid the issue via blocking or exerting some willpower. If you have a problem, flag it and forget it.
    Someone just couldn't bear to see the image anymore and complained.
    Your new avatar makes a whole lot more sense now too!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by GR1822 View Post
    cstem,
    I think the answer to your question is in post 43...


    Someone just couldn't bear to see the image anymore and complained.
    Your new avatar makes a whole lot more sense now too!
    Ahhhh yes, consistency.

  58. #58
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    And to answer the spineless ***** that neg-repped me and is too chickensh1t to sign for it, no, I'm not related to TD. Get a life.

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    kona:

    I hope you are enjoying the passion the AZ MTBR forum provides. Your post is the perfect example of how the sharing of great trails works. If I was in town I would show you what I consider to be the best ride in Sedona.

    There are others like helimech that ride the trail and share it with others, but heli is a responsible working man and doesn't always have the time to show others around.

    There are others that know the route and may PM you. Due to the steepness I would not recommend it in the rain unless you are in the Wade Simmons category of rider. That being said the best area shortly after a heavy rain period is West Sedona near the High School.

    Special Ed, Pyramid, Witch Doctor, Under the Radar, Templeton, Easy Breezy, Slim Shady, Highline and Baldwin are pretty much all weather trails.

    Good luck with your stay.

    TD
    Haha. Ya thanks, its interesting. I appreciate your help and willingness to show these wonderful trails.
    No I'm not quite in the Wade Simmons category, so I'll be staying off of that trail. Thanks.
    I'll look up some of those trails. Some of them I remember, I rode highline with you 2 years ago.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62kona View Post
    Haha. Ya thanks, its interesting. I appreciate your help and willingness to show these wonderful trails.
    No I'm not quite in the Wade Simmons category, so I'll be staying off of that trail. Thanks.
    I'll look up some of those trails. Some of them I remember, I rode highline with you 2 years ago.
    kona

    I am in the process of making a new map of the area those trails are in, I will post it when it's done.

    TD

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    kona

    I am in the process of making a new map of the area those trails are in, I will post it when it's done.

    TD

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    I can't believe what some of you guys have blown this up to. As the op, I was not offended by his response. I appreciate him wanting to make sure I don't get in over my head and get lost or hurt. He may be blunt, but whatever, thats TD and I'm cool with that.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by 62kona View Post
    I can't believe what some of you guys have blown this up to. As the op, I was not offended by his response. I appreciate him wanting to make sure I don't get in over my head and get lost or hurt. He may be blunt, but whatever, thats TD and I'm cool with that.
    kona:

    I just got done with the Lower Red Rock Loop Map. I am parked along the side of the highway headed to McCall, Idaho and want to get this done for you. I will post it to my Google Map Site and give you the link. Hope it helps. Sorry it took so long, I will try and make it up to you.

    TD

    Here is the link to the Lower Red Rock Loop 11X17 Map. I did it in a pdf file and a jpeg. This link is to the jpeg (https://07854805-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites....attredirects=0) You should be able to click on it and zoom in.

    TD
    Last edited by traildoc; 08-25-2012 at 12:26 AM.

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    rock:

    It is amazing the amount of time several viewers spend on the AZ forum having discussions with me. I feel sorry for their wives if they are married, I fell sorry for their significant others whoever they are.

    My hope is that the new viewers can get through the useless posts and get the Intel of the great Sedona riding.

    TD
    I feel sorry for your wife too. With the high number of lengthy posts on here, I'd say you spend more time on the forum than anybody else. Being that you're not allowed to ride anywhere in AZ at the moment and aren't residing in AZ at the moment isn't it kind of a waste of time?

    Please, TD, kill two birds with one stone. Stop posting on here; your wife will get back the loving husband she deserves and the new viewers won't have to weed through the useless posts.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

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    Arrogance arrogance arrogance... Narcissism narcissism narcissism...

  66. #66
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    Wow! Thanks for putting in the extra effort TD. That was really cool of you. We will hook up for a ride next time I'm in town for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    kona:

    I just got done with the Lower Red Rock Loop Map. I am parked along the side of the highway headed to McCall, Idaho and want to get this done for you. I will post it to my Google Map Site and give you the link. Hope it helps. Sorry it took so long, I will try and make it up to you.

    TD

    Here is the link to the Lower Red Rock Loop 11X17 Map. I did it in a pdf file and a jpeg. This link is to the jpeg (https://07854805-a-62cb3a1a-s-sites....attredirects=0) You should be able to click on it and zoom in.

    TD

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    WTF are you talking about? This is what I started this thread for. He has been the only one with any helpful information. Go rant somewhere else instead of making me read through 3 pages of this ******** just so I can can get some trail directions.

    Quote Originally Posted by SHNIPE View Post
    Arrogance arrogance arrogance... Narcissism narcissism narcissism...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 62kona View Post
    WTF are you talking about? This is what I started this thread for. He has been the only one with any helpful information. Go rant somewhere else instead of making me read through 3 pages of this ******** just so I can can get some trail directions.
    My apologies if you didnt get the memo. The great thread you started for information and directions was taken over and made into a "look at me and who I know" thread. It was great for about 12 of the 67 posts. The comment I made was not directed towards you.

    Also, you can edit your options to show many more posts so that you dont have to click through 3 full pages of posts. My Account -> Options on the left -> Thread Display Options and change it to 100.. I only had to read one long page. No clicking to read more pages only to be let down with more grandstanding from TD and bs before you get to the actual meat of the information.

  69. #69
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    Kona, Sorry for jacking your thread and feeding the drama. Have fun riding in Sedona and please post a ride report - with pics!

  70. #70
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    Ride invite

    I'm meeting up on Sun @ 7:30am at Bike and Bean to lead a tech ride. Anyone that wants to have some fun, join in!!

    Trail Doc - Alaska, man. Head for Alaska.
    If lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right

  71. #71
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    Thanks I'll be there.

    Quote Originally Posted by zul View Post
    I'm meeting up on Sun @ 7:30am at Bike and Bean to lead a tech ride. Anyone that wants to have some fun, join in!!

    Trail Doc - Alaska, man. Head for Alaska.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHNIPE View Post
    Arrogance arrogance arrogance... Narcissism narcissism narcissism...
    Snip:

    Could you PLEASE be more specific? I this type of post I get sometimes when I try and give the advanced masses Sedona trail Intel. 99% appreciate the advice and 1% I never hear back from.

    I don't know of one person anywhere that provides the full spectrum of FREE help that I try to provide. Please take the time to provide some specifics on where I am not trying to be helpful? I am trying to provide mountain bikers with a great riding experience, not win a personality contest.

    Self-appointed ambassadors don't have to kiss butt. Their job is to provide results not fluff.

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by zul View Post
    I'm meeting up on Sun @ 7:30am at Bike and Bean to lead a tech ride. Anyone that wants to have some fun, join in!!

    Trail Doc - Alaska, man. Head for Alaska.
    zul:

    You are a funny guy. Thanks for taking kona on a tech ride. I am really curious where you guys ended up going. I know you never stay on the system trails. In fact you have a hard time staying on any trail. I think kona is going to have some fun riding with you.

  74. #74
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    TD - When I say 'Head to Alaska', I mean that in the nicest way. If I had the time, I'd say 'Count me In'.

    As for today's ride w Kona, it went well. No blood, a bit long (17 miles or so) but 5 other locals showed up and made the ride special. Those that made the entire loop (which included Kona) hit up Highline and parts of the Hogs.

    Most all of the dry creeks are busted apart from recent flooding just enough to make those creeks that much harder and extra fun. Downed trees and rock falls siting amid many trails. The Forest Service has lots of work to do.

    Check out this boulder fall on Templeton ... Several BIG rocks fell onto the trail and smashed into a large sycamore tree ...

    P1000081" width="549">

    P1000077" width="549">

    Kona is a hell of a rider and we dragged him over some beastly terrain including some 'on the fly drops' which he gobbled with delight. He also made the super hard right hander on Highline. PROPS!!!
    If lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right

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    TD
    Thanks for looking out for me. Zul took care of me.

    Zul,
    Awesome ride this morning! 17miles was a bit far for for me, but I'm glad I did the hogs trails with you guys. It was really fun, you have a cool group of riders here. Thanks again for being a great guide. Looking forward to another ride this week.
















  76. #76
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    [QUOTE=62kona;9630226]TD
    Thanks for looking out for me. Zul took care of me.

    Zul,
    Awesome ride this morning! 17miles was a bit far for for me, but I'm glad I did the hogs trails with you guys. It was really fun, you have a cool group of riders here. Thanks again for being a great guide. Looking forward to another ride this week. [QUOTE]

    Good to see you had a good time, and that you got to meet some of the good characters around Slowdona. Too bad I had to work today, cause it would have been a nice ride.
    The secret to mountain biking is pretty simple. The slower you go the more likely it is you’ll crash.
    - Julie Furtado

  77. #77
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    So I am going out to Sedona for a weekend in few weeks. It's a conference but I want to try to get away for like 2 hours on each of the days. It's my first time riding there, from what I seen the area Hwy 179 and something-butt and cock-whatever hills areas are the place to go for first-timers. (Who the hell named these places anyway?) I am looking for xc/trail riding, about 15 miles. Suggestions, anyone?

    This not a baiting post, I just need place to ride.

  78. #78
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    If your conferences are at the Hilton, you can ride The Shades (Slim Shady), Highline, Lost Lama and several other trails 'on that side of town'. There are many combos and loops with bail out options that can be riden directly from the Hilton ... 5 minutes of road to pedal and your golden.

    Cockscomb (the back of a roosters neck), Girdner and all of those trails are 'on the other side of town'. It's 15 minutes by car from 'one side' of town to 'the other', which doesn't sound like much but by the time you rack bikes, load and set up your gear ... it adds up.

    So, it really depends upon where you are staying. Mornings are good, afternoons are hot but not unbearable. Temps should be even better in a few weeks.

    Good luck!
    If lovin you is wrong, I don't wanna be right

  79. #79
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    [QUOTE=woahey;9630382][QUOTE=62kona;9630226]TD
    Thanks for looking out for me. Zul took care of me.

    Zul,
    Awesome ride this morning! 17miles was a bit far for for me, but I'm glad I did the hogs trails with you guys. It was really fun, you have a cool group of riders here. Thanks again for being a great guide. Looking forward to another ride this week.

    Good to see you had a good time, and that you got to meet some of the good characters around Slowdona. Too bad I had to work today, cause it would have been a nice ride.
    Woahey:

    Once again I want to thank you for your post to the advanced masses about one of our best user built trails that we all enjoy riding. I haven't heard back from you regarding the TWO new maps I did up to help the Bike & Bean employees show their customers how to get to those cool trails from the shop.

    I don't think the new Coconino and Hermit trails are even on the shop map to help riders with a good optional route over the Hog trails. I look forward to your positive input how to improve the maps

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by zul View Post
    If your conferences are at the Hilton, you can ride The Shades (Slim Shady), Highline, Lost Lama and several other trails 'on that side of town'. There are many combos and loops with bail out options that can be riden directly from the Hilton ... 5 minutes of road to pedal and your golden.

    Cockscomb (the back of a roosters neck), Girdner and all of those trails are 'on the other side of town'. It's 15 minutes by car from 'one side' of town to 'the other', which doesn't sound like much but by the time you rack bikes, load and set up your gear ... it adds up.

    So, it really depends upon where you are staying. Mornings are good, afternoons are hot but not unbearable. Temps should be even better in a few weeks.

    Good luck!
    Yes I am staying in Hilton ! I will be there in 4 weeks. Thanks a bunch.

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    Thers only 1 place that newbs to Sedona ridin turn to; mtb and TD. He gave me the goods, straight, without alot of BS; and then offered a guided tour---which I accepted. In my books; as a rider from BC that wants to get down and get dirty in Sedona; TD is the MAN. Banning him is absurd; and so are the rest of your pukey comments; specifically meant to attack a person's integrity and fine character; that is contrary to the rules, my riding friends.
    Just let TD do his 'JOB' being the Ambassador of mtbiking in Sedona; plain and simple; with fluorish. And with excellence. If only every ridin locale had a TD; we, who ride around, would be in heaven.
    cheers. TS

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Yes I am staying in Hilton ! I will be there in 4 weeks. Thanks a bunch.
    metal:

    The two new maps I made for Bike & Bean have all those trails listed by zul. You might want to print them up before your trip to make sure you have the latest trail Intel. I made those maps for B&B's use, but Woahey has yet to confirm whether they are sharing the Intel with the MTBR viewers.

    The maps include the new trails recently built by the FS to help riders using the Slim Shady and Templeton trails.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TransitionSenior View Post
    Thers only 1 place that newbs to Sedona ridin turn to; mtb and TD. He gave me the goods, straight, without alot of BS; and then offered a guided tour---which I accepted. In my books; as a rider from BC that wants to get down and get dirty in Sedona; TD is the MAN. Banning him is absurd; and so are the rest of your pukey comments; specifically meant to attack a person's integrity and fine character; that is contrary to the rules, my riding friends.
    Just let TD do his 'JOB' being the Ambassador of mtbiking in Sedona; plain and simple; with fluorish. And with excellence. If only every ridin locale had a TD; we, who ride around, would be in heaven.
    cheers. TS
    So ratting on others that he had helping him to save his own butt doesnt attack his own integrity and show his fine character? He spoke for himself there with actions for once and not long winded rambling circle talk.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by TransitionSenior View Post
    Thers only 1 place that newbs to Sedona ridin turn to; mtb and TD. He gave me the goods, straight, without alot of BS; and then offered a guided tour---which I accepted. In my books; as a rider from BC that wants to get down and get dirty in Sedona; TD is the MAN. Banning him is absurd; and so are the rest of your pukey comments; specifically meant to attack a person's integrity and fine character; that is contrary to the rules, my riding friends.
    Just let TD do his 'JOB' being the Ambassador of mtbiking in Sedona; plain and simple; with fluorish. And with excellence. If only every ridin locale had a TD; we, who ride around, would be in heaven.
    cheers. TS
    TS:

    Thanks for you unbiased post of your mountain bike experiences with the traildoc. As you know with having had 100's of discussions and rides together we both try and provide a great riding experience for are fellow riders.

    Thanks for your support and I look forward to your generosity this coming Winter when I transition back into the Arizona riding scene

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by traildoc View Post
    metal:

    The two new maps I made for Bike & Bean have all those trails listed by zul. You might want to print them up before your trip to make sure you have the latest trail Intel. I made those maps for B&B's use, but Woahey has yet to confirm whether they are sharing the Intel with the MTBR viewers.

    The maps include the new trails recently built by the FS to help riders using the Slim Shady and Templeton trails.
    Thanks. Where can I download the aforementioned maps?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SHNIPE View Post
    So ratting on others that he had helping him to save his own butt doesnt attack his own integrity and show his fine character? He spoke for himself there with actions for once and not long winded rambling circle talk.
    Shnipe:

    When I gave the other trail workers names for the Munds Wagon project the Federal Prosecutor was under the impression that there had been a BIG crime done on the trail reroute project. Everyone involved with doing the work knew the citation was over blown except for the Prosecutor.

    He wanted names so I gave them to him knowing full well if he moved forward with that case the FS was going to not be able to get good volunteer help on other FS sanctioned projects.

    The re-route would have easily been approved, but there would have had to have been a bunch of taxpayer dollars spent to send an archeologist out to inspect a site that there was never any significant activity previously detected in archeological studies or NEPA's.

    I feel sorry for guys like you that don't understand how these things work.

    Now that the Sedona Mountain Club has offered to decommission the new poorly built downhill trail near Brewar Rd. it will be interesting if the mountain bike community can get any positive PR out of that project.

    The president of the SMC club has done thousands of hours of volunteer work for the Sedona FS and is well connected with the key people in the organization so hopefully the project will move forward. Raisingarizona and 77 Ranger have offered to help and they probably can get some additional help from their riding buddies, and I am sure one or two of the guys who helped on the Munds Wagon project would also volunteer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metalaficionado View Post
    Thanks. Where can I download the aforementioned maps?
    metal:

    I just posted several NEW Sedoan maps at: https://sites.google.com/site/sedona...in/attachments

    If you click on that link you will hopefully get to all the new maps. You may not get the maps the first time, but hopefully it will work for you. If all else fails I can email the files to you if you give me your email address.

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