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  1. #1
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    amazon is collecting arizona sales tax now

    is this bike related ? well, yes since I order so many bike items off of amazon...

    they just started to collect sales tax... what a bummer... I guess that is good for the local bike shops... makes it more of an even playing field...

  2. #2
    Just A Mountain Biker.
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    Except you can still have a better chance of getting what you are looking for on Amazon and having it shipped to you faster, without the guilt factor
    MTBR: Your dad's online mountain bike forum.



  3. #3
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    i've used their same day-local delivery before... it's not on all items,, but if you have prime, order in the morning, and the item is AT the arizona warehouse,, you can get it for $4 shipping.
    that beats having to get in your car and drive to any store

  4. #4
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    they have to, they have physical store in Phx (area), evn though its a warehouse and not retail. No different than REI, in the state's view. I heard there was a negotiated settlement iwth the state gov to deal with past non-payments but dont recall the details.
    Last edited by chollaball; 02-14-2013 at 09:23 AM.

  5. #5
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    bummer.

  6. #6
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    my wife ordered something from Amazon on Monday. No sales tax paid. ...
    Joe
    '12 Santa Cruz Highball 29", '13 Santa Cruz Solo 27.5", '06 Rocky Mtn Switch 26" XC, AM, blah blah blah.. I just ride.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoePAz View Post
    my wife ordered something from Amazon on Monday. No sales tax paid. ...
    you can order from other non-amazon vendors on amazon... that could be why...

  8. #8
    My other ride is your mom
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    I think it's a good thing. We have a huge business with a foot print here in the valley. Their employees use public services like public education and yet the business does not pay a portion of their taxes via collected sales tax.

    Still....shop local folks....for christs sakes....shop local and keep the money here in town.

  9. #9
    parenting for gnarness
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post

    Still....shop local folks....for christs sakes....shop local and keep the money here in town.
    just like the LDS!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by chollaball View Post
    just like the LDS!
    LBS or LSD?

    I don't mind paying a little extra and buy from my LBS, although sometimes they WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY overcharge for stuff - like CO2 cartridges and other small things.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I think it's a good thing. We have a huge business with a foot print here in the valley. Their employees use public services like public education and yet the business does not pay a portion of their taxes via collected sales tax.
    This would suggest that before paying this tax, Amazon was a net drain on the local economy? Not sure I buy that.

    Besides, you were supposed to give the state that saved tax money anyway, no?

    Effective for 2011, any individual filing Arizona Form 140, Resident Personal Income Tax Return, Arizona Form 140PY, Part Year Resident Personal Income Tax Return, or Arizona Form 140NR, Arizona Nonresident Personal Income Tax Return, will now be required to report Arizona use tax liabilities on purchases made from vendors that do not collect the Arizona transaction privilege (sales) tax (TPT) that are subsequently stored, used or consumed in Arizona.
    Of course, I do understand reality.....

  12. #12
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    i collected and remitted a whole $725 in AZ sales tax from about $8k in-state sales last year...

  13. #13
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    im sure when amazon agreed to BUILD their warehouse here, the suspension of sales tax for a certain period was part of the bargain in exchange for guaranteeing a certain number of jobs for the area.
    lots of states offer large businesses these types of incentives.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    im sure when amazon agreed to BUILD their warehouse here, the suspension of sales tax for a certain period was part of the bargain in exchange for guaranteeing a certain number of jobs for the area.
    lots of states offer large businesses these types of incentives.
    I think you have your facts mixed up. I thought companies get INCOME tax breaks. State sales taxes are collected by the company, and they send it all to the government.

    Anyways, it is definitely a bummer.

  15. #15
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    it's not so much to benefit their bottom line on paper, but to benefit their customer base.
    think about how many AZ people signed up for prime, and REGULARLY order, knowing they get their stuff next day and no tax.
    if they had started collecting tax from the beginning, I don't think they would have hooked as many AZ peeps.
    think of it as a grand opening sale that needs approval from state legislature.
    once you have established the customer loyalty, then you can up the prices.
    sure you might lose some people, but overall the majority will stay.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I think it's a good thing. We have a huge business with a foot print here in the valley. Their employees use public services like public education and yet the business does not pay a portion of their taxes via collected sales tax.

    Still....shop local folks....for christs sakes....shop local and keep the money here in town.
    So, hooray for protectionism? It's never worked before, but this time it'll be different?

    Myself, and any other consumer out there, will ultimately do what's in our best interest. And my best interest is to get the most value for my dollar. Whoever can provide me with that, gets my dollar, wherever they are. Now, the local places I shop at can't really compete with the internet as far as cost, but they provide other value, so the price difference is negated by the other value.

    Can I get a bike cheaper on the internet than I can at the LBS? Yes. But, the internet won't fix the damn thing when it breaks, so even though the upfront costs are higher, I place a value on service, and it's smarter to buy from the LBS. Just an example.

  17. #17
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    Eazy E is correct. I need to get the most value from my dollar and internet shoping does that. So what does that mean for the Lbs? They have to provide a value to me that goes beyond price. That comes down to service. Either actual bike service or customer service. Why pay 10-30% more for an item at an LBS when you can get the exact thing on-line? Now if you don't know what you need and need customer support then you can't beat local shops if they do it well.
    Joe
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  18. #18
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    QVC got in the same bind, when they did their coast 2 coast sales tour ... Some kind of legal mumbo jumbo I could care less about, but they are now required to charge a State sales tax, regardless of which State one lives in.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MtbAZ44 View Post

    makes it more of an even playing field...
    Um, no it does not.
    Nice KOM, sorry about your penis.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    it's not so much to benefit their bottom line on paper, but to benefit their customer base.
    think about how many AZ people signed up for prime, and REGULARLY order, knowing they get their stuff next day and no tax.
    if they had started collecting tax from the beginning, I don't think they would have hooked as many AZ peeps.
    think of it as a grand opening sale that needs approval from state legislature.
    once you have established the customer loyalty, then you can up the prices.
    sure you might lose some people, but overall the majority will stay.
    not following you -- i signed up for Prime after several years of us buying most of our stuff online and a lot more from Amazon then anywhere else, and combine the account with my wife. We did it for free shipping, taxes did not enter into our calculation. Not a fan of the taxes, but Amazon mostly is still the leader in finding what you want with confidence and ease of use. They are far easier to use than Ebay\Paypal with much less spelunking in the ether for your product and much faster checkout. I am more inclined to go back to Amazon now with the Prime fee paid and knowing shipping is free, but I'm not exclusive about it. If their site sucked, I would never have signed up.

  21. #21
    wrecking crew
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    Amazon is now collecting in AZ since Feb 1st I believe...another forum I was on was posting this same thing. 6.6% sales tax is being charged in AZ, I believe and they are getting ready to add Nevada to that list as well.

    Amazon.com Help: Sales Tax Requirements
    ~~~

  22. #22
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    I think its wonderful. All on-line retailers should be forced to collect appropriate sales tax in every state they sell into. Its not a right to buy stuff tax free, it was a way to subsidize a business model years ago.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    I think its wonderful. All on-line retailers should be forced to collect appropriate sales tax in every state they sell into. Its not a right to buy stuff tax free, it was a way to subsidize a business model years ago.
    Speak for yourself ,we are taxed to death on everything next the local municipalities will want in on the action.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azpilot View Post
    Speak for yourself ,we are taxed to death on everything next the local municipalities will want in on the action.
    As more business has gone on-line (and default "out of state" sales) it reduced the sales tax revenue states and local govenments collected. Why are your entitled to buy stuff tax free? There are state which have no sales tax, if you want sales tax free items move there.

    I'm pretty conservative but feel this is a loophole that should be closed. What you dont realize is that this shortfall in revenue on a state and local level needs to be made up for elsewhere. As a result property taxes, intangible taxes, state income taxes (both corproate and individual) all go up.

    If you have no investments, no real estate holdings and a low wage job then these mean little if anything to you because you. I don't know your individual situation, but I don't want to be foreced to subsidize your sales tax evasion, or anyone elses via my income, property and other assorted taxes.
    Monte
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  25. #25
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    How about the government realizes that it exists for OUR benefit instead of us existing for THEIR benefit?

  26. #26
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    I think its wonderful. All on-line retailers should be forced to collect appropriate sales tax in every state they sell into. Its not a right to buy stuff tax free, it was a way to subsidize a business model years ago.
    you do realize that there are over 45000 constantly changing different taxing districts in the US. the paperwork alone would sink all but the largest corporations.
    of course Wal-mart and target are all for pushing any legislation which would force the majority of their competition out of business (they call it leveling the playing field because they already have stores in all 50 states).

    on YOUR state tax form, there is a section called USE TAX where YOU the consumer are supposed to report the amount of internet and out of state purchases you made without tax.

    i'm in mesa, and my entire store is contained in, and operated out of my home,, why in balls would i collect sales tax that goes to support schools, roads, police, and fire department in Poughkeepsie, NY?
    i collect a total of 9.05% for instate sales.,, and each month i complete & remit the taxs form with 7.3% to maricopa (they handle dividing it up between state/county) and 1.75% mesa.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    you do realize that there are over 45000 constantly changing different taxing districts in the US. the paperwork alone would sink all but the largest corporations.
    of course Wal-mart and target are all for pushing any legislation which would force the majority of their competition out of business (they call it leveling the playing field because they already have stores in all 50 states).

    on YOUR state tax form, there is a section called USE TAX where YOU the consumer are supposed to report the amount of internet and out of state purchases you made without tax.

    i'm in mesa, and my entire store is contained in, and operated out of my home,, why in balls would i collect sales tax that goes to support schools, roads, police, and fire department in Poughkeepsie, NY?
    i collect a total of 9.05% for instate sales.,, and each month i complete & remit the taxs form with 7.3% to maricopa (they handle dividing it up between state/county) and 1.75% mesa.

    Total bull****e...its simple.

    Sorry. I owned three businesses, our gear store did in excess of $15,000,000 in annual sales. About 16.5% of that was from our actual B&M store, the balance was internet sales. The software required to collect sales tax is all zip-code driven and it is very simple. Decent e-commerce sales software already contains the backend for this because they know its coming. States will fund a "clearing house" of sorts, you send in one check, they split it up according to the info you send with it and forward it to the appropriate states for a very small admin fee which the states would/will gladly pay.

    Why should you operating out of your house be subsidized via a competitive advantage by the people in NY or any other state? its going to be the law sooner than later, so start planning.

    Its MUCH easier to force retailers to collect sales tax on the sale than collect the sales tax from the consumer..think about it.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by STT GUY View Post
    Total bull****e...its simple.

    Sorry. I owned three businesses, our gear store did in excess of $15,000,000 in annual sales. About 16.5% of that was from our actual B&M store, the balance was internet sales. The software required to collect sales tax is all zip-code driven and it is very simple. Decent e-commerce sales software already contains the backend for this because they know its coming. States will fund a "clearing house" of sorts, you send in one check, they split it up according to the info you send with it and forward it to the appropriate states for a very small admin fee which the states would/will gladly pay.

    Why should you operating out of your house be subsidized via a competitive advantage by the people in NY or any other state? its going to be the law sooner than later, so start planning.

    Its MUCH easier to force retailers to collect sales tax on the sale than collect the sales tax from the consumer..think about it.

    Great one more expense for the little guy trying to start a business.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azpilot View Post
    Great one more expense for the little guy trying to start a business.
    With all the overhead you're saving by running a "business" out of your home over that of a "real" retailer you should be golden. I started out of my garage but always kept excellent records, collected and pid all my taxes and never had to worry. Its just as easy to run a business the "right" way and 100% on the up and up as it is to be a schmuck and cheat on your taxes and if you ever do get audited you wont have to worry. You do not want the IRS, or the state sales tax commission on your ass. Honestly I'd rather deal with the IRS than an State salse tax audit.

    Quickbooks will be able to do this stuff when the time comes and you can do an e-transfer of the out of state sales tax to a single portal quarterly with the report.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    on YOUR state tax form, there is a section called USE TAX where YOU the consumer are supposed to report the amount of internet and out of state purchases you made without tax
    Funny how mine was always zero...
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  31. #31
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    While we're on the subject, can anybody state any sound reason why a business should be taxed? It's not like a single one of them pay it anyway. To me, the taxes businesses face is one of the main things wrong with the US tax code.

  32. #32
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    Because they use roads, infrastructure, power grids, water, air, have waste, and all sorts of things that are funded and supported by government. Lets not forget OSHA, NIOSH and many other regulatory agencies that ensure they are operating safe and fairly. I'm sure there are hundreds that I'm not mentioning. All things that we use that are degraded and impacted by businesses. For the common good and upkeep and services, they are taxed obviously.

    Was that actually a serious post?
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Because they use roads, infrastructure, power grids, water, air, have waste, and all sorts of things that are funded and supported by government. Lets not forget OSHA, NIOSH and many other regulatory agencies that ensure they are operating safe and fairly. I'm sure there are hundreds that I'm not mentioning. All things that we use that are degraded and impacted by businesses. For the common good and upkeep and services, they are taxed obviously.

    Was that actually a serious post?


    Businesses don't pay taxes, they just collect them.

    Taxes are a cost of doing business, overhead, as it were. It's just a cost passed onto the consumer. By the time the consumer ultimately gets a product, there's a lot of tax and regulatory costs buried in it, none of which are ultimately borne by the businesses.

    I read an article that government red tape regulation cost the economy 1.75 trillion in 2008. That was five years ago, before Obama had the chance to literally triple the size and scope of government. Wonder what it's up to now?

    You wanna know why the US will never have an economy like we used to? That's why. The next generation will have a lower standard of living than we currently enjoy, of that, I have no doubt.

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post


    Businesses don't pay taxes, they just collect them.

    Taxes are a cost of doing business, overhead, as it were. It's just a cost passed onto the consumer. By the time the consumer ultimately gets a product, there's a lot of tax and regulatory costs buried in it, none of which are ultimately borne by the businesses.
    Hence, "the cost of doing business". Sure, I'd like to be able to buy 50" LED TVs for $50, but the true cost is much higher. In this case importation fees, tariffs, the fuel for the boat, etc. What would you rather have, things that cost a little more, or pay outright 60-70% of your income in taxes? At least this way it's spread out a little bit and a little more tailored to the use. Again, it's kind of hard to take this serious. These are costs of doing business. Sure, it can be passed to the consumer. What's the point? That you can't afford a bicycle because it's too much and you're trying to say the cost of business is too much? Last time I checked, CEOs are pulling in record amounts of income, in fact we are talking multiple times more than in previous eras, even accounting for inflation. Apple, oil, other tech, even the auto industry are all doing pretty darn well. What is your point, that you should get things for free?
    I read an article that government red tape regulation cost the economy 1.75 trillion in 2008. That was five years ago, before Obama had the chance to literally triple the size and scope of government. Wonder what it's up to now?
    I don't know because it's difficult to determine what you are saying. The government is 3x bigger now? We have 3x as many troops, 3x as many workers? 3x as much money for government services? Guess what, I work for the government, and I can tell you the department I work for is not 3x bigger than 5 years ago, in fact, it's smaller and has been under a hiring freeze for much of that time. I'm not going to argue the government is way smaller than it was 5 years ago, but your argument seems to be complete hyperbole and possibly based on false information. Hard to figure out the point based on this...


    You wanna know why the US will never have an economy like we used to?
    Like when? I don't remember it ever being dramatically better than it was now, I'm going back 30 years...
    The next generation will have a lower standard of living than we currently enjoy, of that, I have no doubt.
    What did you think was going to happen due to excessive spending in Reagan years and on through now? (Although it started before Reagan, it just really ballooned under him). So you are saying you do not want to pay for it and just want it to magically go away? Or are you ok with accepting a lower standard of living to "pay down" what needs to be paid? Would you rather preserve your own higher standard of living and pass the problem along, or would you rather "take the hit" and start to get stuff paid down so the next generation can actually have it better?

    Stillnotsureifcereal....
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    While we're on the subject, can anybody state any sound reason why a business should be taxed? It's not like a single one of them pay it anyway. To me, the taxes businesses face is one of the main things wrong with the US tax code.
    Huh????

    Our corporate income tax rates are some of the highest in the developed world and our individual tax rates are some of the lowest.

    Most "small" businesses use the flow-thru system where net business income is taxed at the individual rate. This allows for a lower individual tax rates to apply rather than the higher coporate rates.

    I have no idea where you got the idea that corporations dont pay taxes. There were years when my tax liabilty was many hundreds of thousands of dollars and we paid it. We avoided taxed where possible (different from evasion..) but when you're businesses are sound and turning great profits, taxes are something that comes with the success.
    Monte
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  36. #36
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    I actually waited one day too long and had to pay tax on the TV i just bought, still cheaper though

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