Three so far, two rattlers at Usery and a Gopher I believe at Gold Canyon, I like him the most, he just laid there as I rode him over by mistake, then he just chilled, nothing like a rattler, all pissed off and noisy. Almost ran over one of the rattlers, bit of a hit to the ticker as one goes under your foot...... IMG_7790 by driverfound337, on Flickr IMG_7841 by driverfound337, on Flickr IMG_7860 by driverfound337, on Flickr
Why try to move it off the trail? I just go around them. And warn anyone approaching from the opposite direction.
What if someone is coming down the trail the same way you are? I would rather take a little time to nicely encourage the snake to go elsewhere, than risk someone not noticing it and potentially having a problem.
What if someone is coming down the trail the same way you are? I would rather take a little time to nicely encourage the snake to go elsewhere, than risk someone not noticing it and potentially having a problem.
^ This, as long as it's someone else doing the encouraging....!
Erika Nowak is a herpetologist at Northern Arizona University. She's been studying southwestern rattlesnakes for more than 20 years. She says, "Rattlesnakes are often relocated because they occur in places where people don't want them. In most cases, the animals will try to come back to where they were removed from, and if it's an urban area, they are very likely to be killed, either hit by a car, or show up in someone else's yard, or show up in another area and be killed."
Nowak says the snakes try to hard to get home that they take on risky behavior, like crawling during the winter when they should be hibernating, or moving during the day when they would ordinarily be hiding from predators. The normally hardy creatures can become physiologically stress and die from disease.
Erika Nowak believes relocating rattlesnakes may be more successful if their entire community is moved with them. " A lot of the research has been showing that they have really complicated social lives," she says. "So, one thing that we know that encourages survival is moving social groups, or moving animals - even if they're not physically related - at least moving a group of animals that know each other. Moving those animals together into a new habitat."
Nowak says that could mean transferring all the other snakes in the area to the new location, as well as the animals that den with them like gila monsters and desert tortoises.
In response to someone in the comments asking if there are studies that support this, Nowak responded:
In our review article recently published in Conservation Biology, we draw on studies from rattlesnake, Gila monster, and desert tortoise research, including observations of long-term fidelity to dens by different species, to speculate that moving entire communities will benefit all players. There is good data to support this idea for some social groups of rattlesnakes and gartersnakes, but we do not yet have this data for multiple species (to my knowledge). The research is also pretty clear that rattlesnakes and other long-lived reptile species relocated out of their home ranges exhibit aberrant behavior, which increases their mortality rates, compared to animals that are not moved.
The best defense against bullsh*t is vigilance. If you smell something, say something. Jon Stewart
Interesting. People tend to assume animals' lives are very simplistic. I have to admit, I never considered that rattlesnakes might have "really complicated social lives".
Many years ago I used to have a bunch of lizards as pets. I had a collard lizard, a desert iguana and a leopard lizard all living together. It was interesting seeing their different personalities. The collared lizard was a real grump in the morning, if one of the others approached, he would puff up and stand up as tall as he could. Later they'd all be laying on top of each other. He never wanted to be messed with by me though. The leopard lizard didn't seem to mind being handled.
There are two types of people in this world:
1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Now I feel bad for relocating the neighbor's diamondback. It was up by her front door and it seemed the responsible thing to do. We seem to have a hibernaculum of gopher snakes under our garage, I would guess there are a few rattlesnakes in there with them as well. But oddly we only ever see gophers, shovel noses and blind snakes in our yard/garage. In the event of another diamondback encounter in proximity to the house, what would you recommend?
And what about the poor terrapins, you left them out?
Ok, who knows their reptiles? There are four orders:
Crocodilia — crocodiles, gharials, caimans and alligators: 23 species
Squamata — lizards, snakes and amphisbaenids ("worm-lizards"): about 7,900 species
Testudines — turtles and tortoises: approximately 300 species
???
What is the fourth?
There are two types of people in this world:
1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
Soooo many rattlesnakes out this season. I saw three just yesterday out in the McDowell's. Saw a big horned toad too. Unfortunately, it stayed in the weeds so I couldn't get a good picture of it.
I wasn't paying attention on Ripsey and took a wrong turn down some rocks into a wash. After realizing my mistake, I was most grateful for having made it as it netted me my first ever Gila Monster sighting. I would see another the following day in Martinez Canyon, but my phone was dead
Now I feel bad for relocating the neighbor's diamondback. It was up by her front door and it seemed the responsible thing to do. We seem to have a hibernaculum of gopher snakes under our garage, I would guess there are a few rattlesnakes in there with them as well. But oddly we only ever see gophers, shovel noses and blind snakes in our yard/garage. In the event of another diamondback encounter in proximity to the house, what would you recommend?
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I disagree with Dr. Novak. If you have to move a snake farther than 1 km, the more humane thing to do is kill it, rather than relocate it and cause it to suffer a slow painful death.
I wasn't paying attention on Ripsey and took a wrong turn down some rocks into a wash. After realizing my mistake, I was most grateful for having made it as it netted me my first ever Gila Monster sighting. I would see another the following day in Martinez Canyon, but my phone was dead
Great shot!
There are two types of people in this world:
1) Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data
I wasn't paying attention on Ripsey and took a wrong turn down some rocks into a wash. After realizing my mistake, I was most grateful for having made it as it netted me my first ever Gila Monster sighting. I would see another the following day in Martinez Canyon, but my phone was dead
Originally Posted by chazpat
Great shot!
Love the Monster shots. First one I've seen scaling a cliff without a safety rope.
Originally Posted by mileslong
I passionately remove rocks and corners and other stuff I find too hard to ride.
I am so stoked I finally found a Gila Monster, moved to AZ a year ago and been looking for one ever since, I think I've checked off the critters I have wanted to find IMG_9102 by driverfound337, on Flickr
I am so stoked I finally found a Gila Monster, moved to AZ a year ago and been looking for one ever since, I think I've checked off the critters I have wanted to find IMG_9102 by driverfound337, on Flickr
where did you run across this guy?
He looks hungry.
Gold Canyon - finally saw my first gila monster! I scared the little dude while he was sunning himself on a rock. Good thing I had some riders following me or I wouldn't have known he was there!
Hawes Last Night saw the most chill rattler in my experience then an awkward object right on the trail by the commuter lot and definitely the biggest frog I ever seen. I guess it was a Sonoran Desert Toad and they have hallucinogenic properties but I didn't smoke it. IMG_0850 by driverfound337, on Flickr IMG_0852 by driverfound337, on Flickr
[QUOTE=Driverfound337;13246954]Hawes Last Night saw the most chill rattler in my experience then an awkward object right on the trail by the commuter lot and definitely the biggest frog I ever seen. I guess it was a Sonoran Desert Toad and they have hallucinogenic properties but I didn't smoke it.
...
Yup that's a Sonoran Desert Toad, all right. Keep your dogs away.
Gold Canyon this morning, this SOB I came around a corner this morning, the first rattler took a strike at me as it was too late for either of us to do anything, he was just inches from hitting my leg, INCHES! After a few curses I got a picture of him and was worked up but always aware I am in his environment not mine. The second snake was major chill, he even let me move him off the middle of the trail without nay fuss, I don't usually move them but I knew I had people behind me somewhere and I felt this time I would get him away. I am guessing this is the right thing to do. To note I have been here about 1.5 years in the damn desert, looking forward to leaving here in little over two years without one of these critters biting me. Bark Scorpion got me a couple of weeks ago, that was a horrendous experience, 30 minutes of excruciating pain, entire body numb, from toe to head and everything in between, lost my vision too, couldn't read a clock or cell phone, felt pretty drunk as well. It was hell for 24 hours, sucked for 48 hours, finally got rid of some numbing by day 4, toe remained numb for weeks. Freaking scorpion what a much they pack. Anyone else have similar experience, seems I had a pretty extreme reaction, meanwhile I watch an idiot on youtube purposely get bit and oh he goes numb and that's it. Anyway, I will keep posting as long as the desert doesn't kill me first.
Gold Canyon this morning, this SOB I came around a corner this morning, the first rattler took a strike at me as it was too late for either of us to do anything, he was just inches from hitting my leg, INCHES!
So glad to hear it missed! I've passed many and wondered how good they are at hitting moving targets.
I also had a close encounter with a rattler at GC on Saturday. It was coiled to the side of the trail on Phantom. It was a downhill section, so I was moving pretty fast. I was by it before I really saw it, but missed running over it by inches. It rattled angrily as it moved into the brush.
Then the next day I came almost as close to stepping on one while golfing at Las Sendas. That one was laid out near a rock ledge. I had jumped over it. It didn't move and never rattled even as it moved away while we took pictures of it.
The Massasauga rattle snake evidently can live where I am at by that article. This is the first time I have seen it listed in my area and I am doubtful it is correct. There are Rattlers in southern Ohio along the Ohio river (far north as they can live) and some other water snake by the great lakes but here in central Ohio we have no venomous snakes. We have no Bears, big cats or anything else to worry about other than possibly a bee or tick and I like it that way.
The Massasauga rattle snake evidently can live where I am at by that article. This is the first time I have seen it listed in my area and I am doubtful it is correct. There are Rattlers in southern Ohio along the Ohio river (far north as they can live) and some other water snake by the great lakes but here in central Ohio we have no venomous snakes. We have no Bears, big cats or anything else to worry about other than possibly a bee or tick and I like it that way.
Seriously?! You're really comparing Ohio to Arizona on an Arizona forum? My brother lived in Ohio for 4 years and he still talks about how much that place sucks. My wife and I visited him and his family while he was still there and yup, that place is an armpit of a state. Sorry if I'm a bit sensitive but being a native AZ boy it's hard for me to hear about how much someone likes another state but then when December/January rolls around all I see are license plates from the Midwest. Snakes are cool, cooler then whiners from Ohio. I'd rather have every single one of my trails overflowing with snakes instead of having one more snow bird driving their rust buckets on our streets during our winter.
Last edited by homey; 07-31-2017 at 12:51 PM.
Reason: to be mo snarky
"You can become a very fast donkey, but you'll never be a thoroughbred..."
The Massasauga rattle snake evidently can live where I am at by that article. This is the first time I have seen it listed in my area and I am doubtful it is correct. There are Rattlers in southern Ohio along the Ohio river (far north as they can live) and some other water snake by the great lakes but here in central Ohio we have no venomous snakes. We have no Bears, big cats or anything else to worry about other than possibly a bee or tick and I like it that way.
I see. Nothing dangerous where you live except for HUMANS, lol.
Two close encouters - one with a picture, one without:
#1 (no picture) - Riding at Browns Ranch in the spring with my 3 year old and 6 year old. 6 year old rode ahead (against dad's wishes) and met a new friend. "DADDY (screaming and crying) HE LOOKED LIKE AN ICE CREAM CONE AND HAD TWO HUGE TEETH AND WANTED TO EAT ME!!!" Thank you to the two gentleman that ran to his and my aid. (no bite just a scare). Side note - I didnt sleep for 2 days after my adrenaline was pumping so hard.
#2 (picture) - Riding at Sonoran preserve in N. Scottsdale. Saw a guy standing at the side of the trail (on a nice Ibis HD3) and he stopped me. The snake pictured refused to move. Not even an inch. We screamed, rang bells, you name it...nothing. Walked closer to him (within 10 feet) and saw his tongue moving (soooo yucky). Yep...gonna walk around this bad boy.
Man this week has been busy with critters, maybe 10 tarantulas, 1 unknown snake, 1 rattle snake, 1 gila monster, 1 javelina, 1 froggy unknown species, 3 desert hairy scorpions, 3 whip scorpions and probably forgetting something. Still amazed at the ecosystem here in the phoenix valley, been here 1.5 years and don't like it much here but the desert is fricken cool.
Gila Monster was Usery Regional Park off Moon Rock trail, so cool I love these things, second one I have seen this year and only two sightings ever. IMG_1711 by driverfound337, on Flickr IMG_1710 by driverfound337, on Flickr
I'd be okay with fewer of the sightings I've had in the last few weeks. Specifically, rattlers in the Phx mtn preserve off of 40th st. Luckily both have been very quick to make noise.
First was coming up a switchback and the rattler was on the high side of the trail. Made lotsa noise when I got about 15 ft from it, and I was moving slow, so had enough time to stop and back away.
This past Monday, another was at the top of a small hill between washes right on the edge of the trail to the left. I ended up almost plowing into a cactus to the right as I flailed like a schmuck trying to veer away. At the speed I was going, and with its proximity to the trail, I had way less warning/reaction time to work with. Got the heart rate going very well though.
Prior sighting was right around the #2 blue dot to the SW of the red spot.
I am about to be to Arizona to live and ride. Whats the policy when you encounter a rattler flying down the trail. Skid to a stop, try and avoid it while keeping moving? Try and nudge it with a stick off the trail?
LDC usually by the time you see one all you can do is pull up your legs and try and avoid running it over. Try to not knee yourself in the face and it wouldnt be much fun if your front tire kicked it up in your lap.. not likely though. If there's a lot of people in the area I try and get it to leave. Diamondbacks are pretty docile usually but have seen a few Mohaves that will stand their ground and even aggressively come at you and Mohaves are the last rattler you want to get tagged by around here...
LDC usually by the time you see one all you can do is pull up you legs and try and avoid running it over. Try to not knee yourself in the face and it wouldnt be much fun if your front tire kicked it up in your lap.. not likely though. If there's a lot of people in the area I try and get it to leave. Diamondbacks are pretty docile usually but have seen a few Mohaves that will stand their ground and even aggressively come at you.
Ive ran over a few snakes by mistake. Always finished them off if too bad and had a proper trailside funeral. Not sure about finishing off a wounded rattlesnake though. Hopefully i am able to recognize them fast because ill be riding mid day, on low traffic trails and thats where they will be out getting sun. I have a high probability of lots of encounters. I am actually looking forward to observing these beautiful creatures outisde of captivity. Those gila monsters are one of the most beautiful creatures ive ever seen.
Its really not a problem... more of a fear factor thing and they probably wouldnt be too injured if you did run one over. Have seen people trying to kill them and all it wants to do is leave... Live and let live.
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Originally Posted by Phillbo
