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  1. #1
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    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread

    It looks like a strong system might be headed our way and with less than two weeks to go for the projected opening day at Snowbowl it seems like riding bikes in flagstaff may be coming to an end for the season.

    So here is the snow stoke thread for 2013/2014! I know it's Arizona and it's OT for this forum but I think there are enough of you that enjoy trips up north to enjoy snow sports.

    If it is real, it will be huge! » Stu's Weather Blog
    Last edited by raisingarizona; 11-18-2013 at 12:15 PM.

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    Here is one of my favorite edits from last season to get things going. With less than average seasons for the last three years lets hope for a good season!

    Flagstaff Powder Session 1/14/13 - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Here is one of my favorite edits from last season to get things going. With less than average seasons for the last three years lets hope for a good season!

    Flagstaff Powder Session 1/14/13 - YouTube
    wow, you have an outstanding youtube channel

    oh yeah sorry... epic stoke on the vids bro...

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    Thanks MtbAZ44! Hopefully I have timeto put together some sweet edits this winter.

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    Wow those videos are great! I've always wanted to venture into the backcountry on the peaks but I still haven't had a chance to take a Level I avy course (not to mention I haven't the faintest clue where I would do some runs).

    I would love to head up there sometime with you guys if you don't mind! I can grab a beacon, probe, and shovel and tag along. Do you meet up with Maad on backcountry trips?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    Wow those videos are great! I've always wanted to venture into the backcountry on the peaks but I still haven't had a chance to take a Level I avy course (not to mention I haven't the faintest clue where I would do some runs).

    I would love to head up there sometime with you guys if you don't mind! I can grab a beacon, probe, and shovel and tag along. Do you meet up with Maad on backcountry trips?
    Don't take this the wrong way, I appreciate your stoke but everything you just said does not make me want to "guide" you through our backcountry. It's really hard work and you need a lot of experience. Your level 1 wouldn't make me much more confident in your ability. I'm sorry but when it's go time we only ride with people we know that have experience, it's just too risky and we have our own selfish objectives and can't afford to have a total newbie holding us back. This question is kind of like a first date, don't tell your date you hope to get married and have kids your first time out to red lobster, you have to earn some things, you know what I'm saying?

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    so you either need experience or tits

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    Quote Originally Posted by longhairmike View Post
    so you either need experience or tits
    Well no but tits do help, especially if I were single.

  9. #9
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    What RA speaks is truth. I only go BC with my kids who I know can hang. And when they don't, I ditch them just like the snowboarders do on southside. Shred the Gnar

    Bring it winter 13-14!
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Don't take this the wrong way, I appreciate your stoke but everything you just said does not make me want to "guide" you through our backcountry. It's really hard work and you need a lot of experience. Your level 1 wouldn't make me much more confident in your ability. I'm sorry but when it's go time we only ride with people we know that have experience, it's just too risky and we have our own selfish objectives and can't afford to have a total newbie holding us back. This question is kind of like a first date, don't tell your date you hope to get married and have kids your first time out to red lobster, you have to earn some things, you know what I'm saying?
    I understand what you mean and I'm not taking it the wrong way. However, that being said, you have to start somewhere no? How did you start? I'm assuming you went out with someone experienced at some point right? I'm a pretty decent skier (I've hit up Silverton and the upper Gold Hill chutes and glades in Telluride several times) and I know backcountry skiing takes quite a bit of work skinning and hiking up. That being said, I still would never go set off on my own in the backcountry by myself because that's downright stupid and dangerous.

    So what you're basically saying is that unless someone is very experienced in backcountry skiing, a beginner to that type of skiing is pretty much screwed. It's like getting your first credit card. Credit card companies won't give you a credit card because you have no credit history but you can't establish credit history until you get your first credit card.

    Oh well whatever. Forget I even asked.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    I understand what you mean and I'm not taking it the wrong way. However, that being said, you have to start somewhere no? How did you start? I'm assuming you went out with someone experienced at some point right? I'm a pretty decent skier (I've hit up Silverton and the upper Gold Hill chutes and glades in Telluride several times) and I know backcountry skiing takes quite a bit of work skinning and hiking up. That being said, I still would never go set off on my own in the backcountry by myself because that's downright stupid and dangerous.

    So what you're basically saying is that unless someone is very experienced in backcountry skiing, a beginner to that type of skiing is pretty much screwed. It's like getting your first credit card. Credit card companies won't give you a credit card because you have no credit history but you can't establish credit history until you get your first credit card.

    Oh well whatever. Forget I even asked.
    Ha Ha, RA got his start reading ski porn as a teenager in Jersey. Don't take it the wrong way, he was posting after well-deserved post-trail meeting refreshments. Perhaps overly-served. While his points are notable, keep in mind he's one of the elite skiers in Flag. He and his group are not meadow-skipping. They're getting after the goods and in doing so they put themselves at risk. So, it's a bit different than say the group ride on a Sunday.

    That said, I backcountry ski solo all the time. You just got to know where to go and how to travel safe. An easy, short, and relatively safe tour is Dutchman. A good place to test out your equipment and whether or not you like the quality over quantity aspect of touring. It can be a lot of work for a 1000' of turns. Post up on the KPAC forum for like-minded folks. Kachina Peaks Avalanche Center - Observation/Discussion Boards ? View forum - Teaming Up - Finding a Backcountry Partner

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    Quote Originally Posted by ECEGatorTuro View Post
    I understand what you mean and I'm not taking it the wrong way. However, that being said, you have to start somewhere no? How did you start? I'm assuming you went out with someone experienced at some point right? I'm a pretty decent skier (I've hit up Silverton and the upper Gold Hill chutes and glades in Telluride several times) and I know backcountry skiing takes quite a bit of work skinning and hiking up. That being said, I still would never go set off on my own in the backcountry by myself because that's downright stupid and dangerous.

    So what you're basically saying is that unless someone is very experienced in backcountry skiing, a beginner to that type of skiing is pretty much screwed. It's like getting your first credit card. Credit card companies won't give you a credit card because you have no credit history but you can't establish credit history until you get your first credit card.

    Oh well whatever. Forget I even asked.
    If things align right I may take you out. Sometimes I need a partner on days I'm not concerned with conditions. I was thinking more along the days that it's really hitting and is a bit dicey.

    "You start out in the mountains with a handful of luck, and hopefully you gain a handful of knowledge before that handful of luck runs out." One of my favorite quotes by I have no idea.

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    This thread needs pics.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-3rd-gulley-snow-profile.jpg  

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    I'd be more interested in the snow sports, but I hear a lot of toolbags in campus on campus saying "Snowbowl, dude. So stoked. I'm the best there is." First off, if you truly are good, you don't brag about it. You know it, and you don't need to justify it. Second, it just seems to me like Snowbowl is more douchebags than a frat house on welcome week. I go to the woods to get away from the hosebags, not hang out with a high concentration of them. If I want douchebaggery in the woods, I bring my own. My douchebags are predictable and I know what to expect. A bunch of frat house regects trying to tear up the bunny hill? No thanks, Jeff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    I'd be more interested in the snow sports, but I hear a lot of toolbags in campus on campus saying "Snowbowl, dude. So stoked. I'm the best there is." First off, if you truly are good, you don't brag about it. You know it, and you don't need to justify it. Second, it just seems to me like Snowbowl is more douchebags than a frat house on welcome week. I go to the woods to get away from the hosebags, not hang out with a high concentration of them. If I want douchebaggery in the woods, I bring my own. My douchebags are predictable and I know what to expect. A bunch of frat house regects trying to tear up the bunny hill? No thanks, Jeff.
    Dang, Eazy_E did you take a doggy downer today? Your dissing a place you haven't even been to. Take a deep breath and step away from the computer. The thread is about getting stoked for winter. You sir apparently have none.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post

    It looks like a strong system might be headed our way...
    ...riding bikes in flagstaff may be coming to an end for the season.
    Yep. Found some time today and got out on the bike to ride Schultz, Sunset, Brookbank, and Little Gnarly. Trails were in great shape. There are still small patches of snow on Sunset. In a few days...there will probably be a lot more.

    -db-

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    trust me, you don't have a clue on this one...
    Make Flagstaff RAD Again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    I'd be more interested in the snow sports, but I hear a lot of toolbags in campus on campus saying "Snowbowl, dude. So stoked. I'm the best there is." First off, if you truly are good, you don't brag about it. You know it, and you don't need to justify it. Second, it just seems to me like Snowbowl is more douchebags than a frat house on welcome week. I go to the woods to get away from the hosebags, not hang out with a high concentration of them. If I want douchebaggery in the woods, I bring my own. My douchebags are predictable and I know what to expect. A bunch of frat house regects trying to tear up the bunny hill? No thanks, Jeff.
    Sounds like college. Every time I hear someone in Flag say gnar gnar pow pow I cringe. there is nothing gnar gnar about pow pow, it's soft and fluffy and it feels really nice.

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    [QUOTE=rockman;10822444]Ha Ha, RA got his start reading ski porn as a teenager in Jersey. Don't take it the wrong way, he was posting after well-deserved post-trail meeting refreshments. Perhaps overly-served. .

    So true! HAHAHA! My fiance was at her sisters for the night down in Sedona so I got a little carried away!

  20. #20
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    If this verifies it's going to be some impressive snow totals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbflg View Post
    Yep. Found some time today and got out on the bike to ride Schultz, Sunset, Brookbank, and Little Gnarly. Trails were in great shape. There are still small patches of snow on Sunset. In a few days...there will probably be a lot more.

    -db-
    Get it while the gettin is still good! It's coming in now!

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    Me and some buds are planning a drunken hooliganism Saturday camping excursion and we went on a recon mission today. I can confirm that it was snowing like hell once you got above 8000ft.

    Drunken college snow camping shenanigan hooliganism. Yeehaw!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Me and some buds are planning a drunken hooliganism Saturday camping excursion and we went on a recon mission today. I can confirm that it was snowing like hell once you got above 8000ft.

    Drunken college snow camping shenanigan hooliganism. Yeehaw!
    Oh how I envy your currant position! Enjoy but be safe and don't become a statistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Oh how I envy your currant position! Enjoy but be safe and don't become a statistic.
    Being 27 years old and essentially starting a Bachelor's is pretty sick, not gonna lie. I like it a lot better in college than I did in the real world where I had responsibilities and crap like that. I might not ever leave. Animal House for life. Seven years of college down the drain.

    On a serious note though, I'm not a huge drinker. I'm not 18 anymore so the whole get blackout destroyed YOLO thing isn't for me, and it wasn't even when I was that age. I'm planning on adequate liver lubrication, but no "watch me walk over the fire" drunkenness.

    Wanna know something really bad? Among most of the buds I've picked up since I've been here, I'm among the oldest or I am the oldest and most of the bad ideas come from me. I'm supposed to be the voice of reason and experience, but instead I'm the most immature one who thinks up bad ideas. It's like I just got bigger, I've yet to grow up. Lulz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy_E View Post
    Being 27 years old and essentially starting a Bachelor's is pretty sick, not gonna lie. I like it a lot better in college than I did in the real world where I had responsibilities and crap like that. I might not ever leave. Animal House for life. Seven years of college down the drain.

    On a serious note though, I'm not a huge drinker. I'm not 18 anymore so the whole get blackout destroyed YOLO thing isn't for me, and it wasn't even when I was that age. I'm planning on adequate liver lubrication, but no "watch me walk over the fire" drunkenness.

    Wanna know something really bad? Among most of the buds I've picked up since I've been here, I'm among the oldest or I am the oldest and most of the bad ideas come from me. I'm supposed to be the voice of reason and experience, but instead I'm the most immature one who thinks up bad ideas. It's like I just got bigger, I've yet to grow up. Lulz.
    Meh, leave that for later. I'm 38 and I'm still just figuring out what I wanna be when I "grow up."

  27. #27
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    To those asking, I would suggest if you want to learn more about the backcountry, take it upon yourself to learn. KPAC offers a free awareness clinic which will give you an idea of what is involved, then if you think you're interested, you can take a Level I class. The Level I class KPAC offers is valuable because it'll be held in some pretty basic areas that are a good intro into BC conditions as well as make you aware of the basic tools of knowledge you need to begin to assess for yourself, the risk you are placing yourself in. Beyond that, it's up to you to continue to learn, experience and explore by balancing risk against reward. No class will ever teach you that last part...

    For more info, just check out our website:

    Kachina Peaks Avalanche Center: Home

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    Lets talk a little about snow pack on this thread Maad, I love that stuff! So.......where to start for the newbies?

    North faces have been holding a small amount now for about what? Four weeks, maybe five? Not a lot but maybe there are a few pockets that got loaded, maybe even the 6 to 8 inches turned into 18 in a few very isolated n facing pockets? Something to think about as the season progresses if we get some real accumulation possibly. Rock buttresses, convex roll overs, and cliff bands on those aspects could create trigger points while rapid changes occur during events. It's something that I have been watching. I haven't actually been up there but I'm watching none the less from afar.

    We don't usually get the big step down type slides like you see in a continental pack but I have seen it happen on those upper slopes when early season snows get loaded enough on the more n facing aspects. Here it's usually more of the immediate wind event during or directly after a big snow event and it slides on the previous sitting bed surface. Or at least that has been my observations.

    Any how, I kind of find the pack here to be fairly simple compared to continental type pack and that is good but we do get some serious winds and for the untrained eye it can get ya! You gotta look out for those hard slabs but with experience that's pretty damn easy. For the untrained eye I think they can be inviting, even look safe but in actuality they are ticking time bombs waiting for an unsuspecting snow slider to tick them off!

    Another fun aspect about the pack here, we get heavy wind effected snow, so much it creates a shell. a hard to break shell for most of the time but if weighted enough it can snap! Sometimes I feel good to go and other times I'm not so sure. It gets very developed and strong and even stronger because of all of the warm air in between cycles but I never trust that completely unless it's a full blown mf cycle.

    I can keep going on, I love this stuff and bc travel is so much fun. Sometimes the overly technical snow speak on KPAC turns me off a bit (that's not you guys just some of the posters), I wonder if the people writing it are actually skiing or just like talking about snowpack and flexing their snow geek muscles. For most of us those graphs and whatever don't make any sense but I do know my snow.

    Any interesting thoughts you can share from your travels on the Peaks? I think a fun discussion on our local snowpack and it's characteristics would be cool.

  29. #29
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    ^^^^ohh, we're skiing(and split boarding) plenty. I won't have any geekery until we can dig pit and get the season baseline going forward....the previous stuff is not a concern of mine except in theory, Abineau and Fremont.....and by Fremont, I mean Seth's rollover. But that's just right now. This big deposit to start the season off is going to make for an interesting horizon in Jan simply because it's so large. I imagine we will get warmer weather after, typical of our pattern....but because we have a layer that comes in at 46 inches potentially, un-drifted....I see the potential for a larger, weaker basal facet layer set if conditions are right But that's just potential.....just something to observe.....dig your pits to the ground throughout the season and check up on this storm from time to time to watch the depth hoar progress. Having the opportunity to observe 4ft of relatively homogeneous storm cycle evolve as the first snow of the season does not happen often here.

    I will note that I have not bounced this off of Dr. Lovejoy yet, and it's just my speculation. But this is my running theory that I will operate under until I can disprove it.

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    I haven't thought about that. 2005 we had about 4 or 5 feet in October and it did react during a huge cycle later that season. But that was a very BIG year. Telemark was the one I was watching actually. A little bit of snow in there. I don't know how much or if it will really matter tho. It usually gets warm after a storm in November but we shall see. It is getting late and December is closing in.

    One area that I'm always watching is the back side of Rustler Peak, it gets a lot of load, faces just a bit more north than Heck Yeah and has those rock towers that develop facets. I have seen that zone step down big when nothing else is moving back there. One time I felt safe skiing a very deep and powdery Hourglass even tho the back of Rustler went full climax style with 2 or three step downs before hitting the last layer. You could just see and feel why that day, I had no need for a pit and honestly if you just listen and pay attention you rarely do.
    Last edited by raisingarizona; 11-21-2013 at 01:37 AM.

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    So is that you Maad posting the graphs? I hope I didn't offend. That was not my intentions. If so I would like to make a suggestion. The graphs are cool I guess if someone can read em but honestly you guys need to explain for the regular folk what the heck it all means. Kind of like what they do in Utah. Those guys do a great job of simplifying the results so people can understand what is actually going on. I have 20+ years of back country skiing experience and I can't follow those graphs at all. I know snow, I know back country skiing, but I can't read the techy geek speak graphs and if I can't then you may be missing your whole audience. Find a way to make it simple for people to understand. Show your graph and then explain it for people in a cool and fun way. Thanks for all of your work, J
    Last edited by raisingarizona; 11-21-2013 at 08:18 AM.

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    I pay attention to the early pattern as well but my hope is that the early season instabilities like developing depth hoar, etc get bridged over with additional load and a strengthening snowpack. If not, it's usually not worth going. Without the base getting upwards of 5 or 6 feet. Too many hidden obstacles for my liking. Wind is the enemy.

    The snow science is great but overly complicated for most to understand, including myself. No offense to Dr. Lovejoy but I've known him for 20+ years and I've never seen him in the bc. I believe the hope for KPAC was to either have a more dedicated forecaster or to actually release a daily (or weekly) avy condition report? As it is, it's a place to post observations, trip reports, and to sell gear. That's all it was initially setup to be but maybe it will evolve in this direction with a full-time forecaster. As it is, it's a great resource and the hard work and volunteer effort of a few dedicated individuals is appreciated.

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  34. #34
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    Just another reason for big bikes at ski resorts
    Make Flagstaff RAD Again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    utah is the 'beehive state" i would have never guessed that one

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    Last year, we started issuing an advisory... Not a forecast....but an advisory. We did this weekly or after a storm cycle. We adopted the Utah Avalanche Centers protocol to explain the relative concerns and issues, without using all tech-speak. It was done as a pilot and is moving forward this season. You can get a sense for the advisories by checking out our Facebook page by going back to last season in the timeline.

  37. #37
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    I will add, that is my geekery on the graphs....but the reason it was done was that we have to be very careful that we are not issuing a "forecast" or providing anything that says "this is safe" or "this is not safe". Without a forecast function, we have to adhere to advisories that merely describe what is going on in the snow pack based on observations (observed faceted layer between 35cm and 37cm from base, failed on an extended column test, did not propagate, wind loading observed on NE faces above treeline, etc). Since I started posting the geekery, we instituted the public advisory format that generalizes the type of issues one MIGHT encounter based on our observations. The keeping of the geek charts acts as a record of the direct observations and tests.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    I will add, that is my geekery on the graphs....but the reason it was done was that we have to be very careful that we are not issuing a "forecast" or providing anything that says "this is safe" or "this is not safe". Without a forecast function, we have to adhere to advisories that merely describe what is going on in the snow pack based on observations (observed faceted layer between 35cm and 37cm from base, failed on an extended column test, did not propagate, wind loading observed on NE faces above treeline, etc). Since I started posting the geekery, we instituted the public advisory format that generalizes the type of issues one MIGHT encounter based on our observations. The keeping of the geek charts acts as a record of the direct observations and tests.
    Ah yes, I had thought that may be the case the more I thought about it this morning. And don't take the "geek" thing like it's bad. I'm a snow geek too just not so graph orientated. I also have a.d.d. so I only last about 15 seconds trying to figure it out and then give up! I guess I may have missed the advisory? Maybe I just have forgotten, I don't pay too much attention to it really since I'm out there enough.

    Truthfully I like not having a full on forecast. It's the first place I have lived in where I ski the back country and does not have one. I kind of like that. Keeps the crowds (HA! What crowds?) down.

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    Latest GFS precip model is now almost 6" for Yavapai and northern Gila counties. Impressive. Half of that on the SF Peaks would be most timely. Snow levels are 9000' so Flag riding isn't coming to an end either. Thanks Ullr!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-gfs.gif  


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    I can indeed confirm that it's actively snowing in Flagstaff proper. Looks like maybe a half inch or so on the ground at the south end of the NAU campus.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    The snow science is great but overly complicated for most to understand, including myself. No offense to Dr. Lovejoy but I've known him for 20+ years and I've never seen him in the bc.
    i got a KPAC scholarship (thanks, KPAC!) to take (he'll tell ya straight-up he's not really a doctor if you ask) lovejoy's avy level 1 class last season during the big feb. cycle.

    i'll admit, it was super hard to stay focused while standing in pits on dutchman and at 11000'+ at the top of the meadows while the dump just kept coming over the course of two days in the field. but learning a little bit more about snow science and stuff like how to really use a beacon and probe was fascinating and an experience i highly recommend for anyone who ventures beyond the ropes.

    lovejoy was knowledgeable and engaging and a good skier/hiker, too. i suspect that his declining eyesight and obligations as a patroller keep him inbounds more often than not of late. i'm honestly not sure if he can see at all; he may just be skiing from memory at this point.

    here's a link to a little bloggage i wrote up about my avy level 1 class: RockyChrysler.com: Avy Class
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
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    It's snowing in Payson right now. It's not sticking yet.

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    Snowing like hell in Flag again. Looks like it's actually sticking to the road this time.

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    16 to 18" is what I'm hearing from our local ski hill. Hardly anything last night. Not quite the big dump they were hoping for. More on the way but looks like a lot of dry air wrapping into the low as well. But it's got another 24 hours of visitation rights before leaving the premises. Interesting storms these cut-off lows.

    edit to add: 11/24 storm totals are 27" at midway and 17" at Agassiz Lodge. Not quite the monster dump that was forecasted. Not enough to groom either. They're just packing it down by driving over it. Everywhere so if one is inclined to go hiking for turns the pickings will be limited.
    Last edited by rockman; 11-24-2013 at 10:05 AM.

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    Skiing was good if you picked the safe grassy slopes. Thin cover for sure but I managed to ski some very nice bottomless powder and I only hit one rock. I'm really stoked for winter now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Skiing was good if you picked the safe grassy slopes. Thin cover for sure but I managed to ski some very nice bottomless powder and I only hit one rock. I'm really stoked for winter now!
    Bottomless? Is that because it was 10% density fluff?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Bottomless? Is that because it was 10% density fluff?
    Yes and the cold air last night really ripped that moisture right out, setting up a layer about 12 inches deep. It was actually perfect. The texture was super smooth, sexy, and silky!

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Yes and the cold air last night really ripped that moisture right out, setting up a layer about 12 inches deep. It was actually perfect. The texture was super smooth, sexy, and silky!
    the snow conditions this weekend were ideal for fat biking, too RockyChrysler.com: These woods
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    The management at Snowbowl is really stepping up their video efforts. This is pretty cool.

    AZ Snowbowl_Snow Storm Recap - YouTube

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    The management at Snowbowl is really stepping up their video efforts. This is pretty cool.

    AZ Snowbowl_Snow Storm Recap - YouTube
    looks like they bought a helicopter, too!

    here's hoping they use it for BC drops in the IB and that season passholders fly free!
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
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    Major Snow!!

    Major snow last Sunday!! Been playing in the snow for the last two weekends now. (Broke my wrist this summer, still waiting to get back to riding, thus hiking instead)

    First pictures are from 11/23 (Crazy wind!! mountainweather said 75mph and I believe.) Last 2 pics are from yesterday, by the crash site snow was up to my waist!

    Super stoked for Thanksgiving vocation



    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-dsc_4446.jpg2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-dsc_4531.jpg2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-dsc_4594.jpg2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-dsc_4595.jpg

    Sorry for the selfies... everything else is over 10megs -- won't upload.. will resize eventually..

  52. #52
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    Love the snow stoke, been riding back country on the Peaks for 25 yrs, southside on a pow day rivals many a heli run I've done!! Gonna take my boys up for opening day on Fri!

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    Pictures from years past

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-6292_1087004699045_4079053_n.jpg

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-6292_1087004859049_936104_n.jpg

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-6292_1087004899050_7649878_n.jpg

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    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-6292_1087006339086_1427209_n.jpg

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-6292_1087006419088_6546109_n.jpg

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-6292_1087007739121_8119811_n.jpg

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-6292_1087006259084_6913974_n-1.jpg

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-6292_1087006299085_6479959_n.jpg

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    A memorable tour to Telemark Slide on Fremont and then climbed back up Doyle for the run down Telescope or whatever it's called.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-telemark1.jpg  

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-telemark2.jpg  

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-telemark3.jpg  

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-telemark4.jpg  

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-ken_doyle.jpg  


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    Nice rockman! I have yet to get into that area with good conditions. It looks like you guys nailed it that day. This year I really want to explore more. The face across the way in your last pic has been on my radar for a few years now and it's time to make it happen.

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Nice rockman! I have yet to get into that area with good conditions. It looks like you guys nailed it that day. This year I really want to explore more. The face across the way in your last pic has been on my radar for a few years now and it's time to make it happen.
    RA....are you talking about Cliffband couloir?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    RA....are you talking about Cliffband couloir?
    I guess I'm not sure. I think I have seen a bunch of interesting looking lines in that area. The approach is long and the aspect difficult but it sure looks pretty. Have you been in that area Maad? I really need to get a good winter bag as overnights may be the call? I know the old crew back in the 80's and early to mid 90's frequented that zone but I sure haven't yet.

    I was also wondering about the big north facing aspen tree area coming off the far shoulder of Doyle back into the IB. If there are any well spaced glades it could possibly be a sweet powder stash after the winds have hammered the alpine. Any idea?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I guess I'm not sure. I think I have seen a bunch of interesting looking lines in that area. The approach is long and the aspect difficult but it sure looks pretty. Have you been in that area Maad? I really need to get a good winter bag as overnights may be the call? I know the old crew back in the 80's and early to mid 90's frequented that zone but I sure haven't yet.

    I was also wondering about the big north facing aspen tree area coming off the far shoulder of Doyle back into the IB. If there are any well spaced glades it could possibly be a sweet powder stash after the winds have hammered the alpine. Any idea?
    I've only skied the cliffband area once and that was on a multi-day snow cave trip. It's a long approach from just about anywhere.

    There is good trees skiing on the north side of Doyle. The top part is usually wind-hammered and it's steep. I've had more luck with skier's right and down to Waterline Rd.
    Last edited by rockman; 11-27-2013 at 11:40 PM.

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    Did someone say aspens?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-southside.jpg  

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-southside2.jpg  


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    Oh man I hope we get some of that this year! I love those south side storm riding days.

    Sounds like things may be a bit crowded this weekend.

    http://www.arizonasnowbowl.com/news/...r_11.27.13.pdf

  62. #62
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    RA....yes, I've done Cliffband as both a west-east IB traverse and an overnight.

    Rockman....check your IM's to check six

    RA and Rockman.....I have the coordinates to the secret rebel base on Hoth and have installed some updates to it's defenses.....the Empire has thus far been unable to locate it.....

  63. #63
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    The next storm a week from now looks promising. May Ullr provide.

    This is the cornice that eventually ripped out above Alison Clay in 1993. That's when the snapped off stumps on skier's were added to the early season hazards and the lower path considerably widened. 20 foot base by mid-February I think.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-ac_1993.jpg  


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    Asssspen.





    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-2279_1020978608434_5720_n.jpg

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    A couple more I found and then I'm out of old stuff. Time for snow and some new pics.

    Nolan
    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-18354_1180523316952_7457847_n.jpg

    Tracks left after the big 2010 storm. The one we weren't allowed to ski in. We were late due to restrictions and the snow was sun effected and heavy but very stable. This is in part why skiing here can be so frustrating. The clock is ticking and often our access points are limited. This was when it was still technically illegal to be skiing the back country after the storm lifted. It was an epic storm that left 100 inches in 5 days up high on the mountain but it was bitter sweet. Going into the wilderness was determined to be illegal by the forest service and we were denied access throughout that cycle.
    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-20654_1197639504846_425367_n.jpg

    Last edited by raisingarizona; 11-28-2013 at 10:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Oh man I hope we get some of that this year! I love those south side storm riding days.

    Sounds like things may be a bit crowded this weekend.

    http://www.arizonasnowbowl.com/news/...r_11.27.13.pdf
    And at the bottom of that press release:

    "...Please Note: Now that Arizona Snowbowl is in winter operations and according to the National Forest
    Service policy, ALL Slopes will be closed to uphill access throughout the season from 8:00 am – 5:00 pm..."

    We were stopped by a patroller (name available upon request ;-) last year as we skinned up the far left side of Hart Prairie and informed we could be fined $250 apiece. On subsequent trips we skinned our way up the summer hiking trail.

    -db-

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post

    Tracks left after the big 2010 storm. The one we weren't allowed to ski in...
    Going into the wilderness was determined to be illegal by the forest service and we were denied access throughout that cycle...
    I still don't understand how they were able to make access illegal for a single event. Anyone with an understanding of the law want to chime in?

    -db-

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    A couple more I found and then I'm out of old stuff. Time for snow and some new pics.

    Tracks left after the big 2010 storm. The one we weren't allowed to ski in. We were late due to restrictions and the snow was sun effected and heavy but very stable. This is in part why skiing here can be so frustrating. The clock is ticking and often our access points are limited. This was when it was still technically illegal to be skiing the back country after the storm lifted. It was an epic storm that left 100 inches in 5 days up high on the mountain but it was bitter sweet. Going into the wilderness was determined to be illegal by the forest service and we were denied access throughout that cycle.
    I'm not so sure it was really the FS and more the Coc. County Sheriff's office and not wanting to put Search and Rescue in harm's way. It was a huge storm but as we found out most of the slide paths went sympathetically during the storm. It was more the way it was handled and how the closure was implemented that was disappointing.

    Anyhow, 1993 was a bigger year and there were at least 3 storm cycles that approached the 2010 totals. The difference was that SAR wasn't having to rescue lost snowboarders on southside on a continual basis and the avalanche that killed Rick was yet to occur. It seemed like all of those storms in 93 came in wet and finished light and it was just a bomber snowpack.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-hc_1993.jpg  


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    The closure was a CCSO call as they were overwhelmed. We will continue to work within the system to avoid this in the future as we have a representative from CCSO on the KPAC board. One way we have preserved access was by advocating successfully for access into fire affected areas the winter following the large Schultz burn a few years ago. The FS was considering extending the closure order to all users in the areas commonly used for ingress/egress out of the IB....we pushed back and were able to maintain travel corridors.

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    Thank god south side is side country light.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbflg View Post
    And at the bottom of that press release:

    "...Please Note: Now that Arizona Snowbowl is in winter operations and according to the National Forest
    Service policy, ALL Slopes will be closed to uphill access throughout the season from 8:00 am – 5:00 pm..."

    We were stopped by a patroller (name available upon request ;-) last year as we skinned up the far left side of Hart Prairie and informed we could be fined $250 apiece. On subsequent trips we skinned our way up the summer hiking trail.

    -db-
    This is going to have to be discussed more with Snowbowl, the FS, and back country skiers. As long as we can get up to the low saddle and beyond on a working skin track I wouldn't mind the restrictions, I get that they are trying to get things done but unfortunately we don't really have any other options.

    I'm also worried about wind hold days, we often use the ski area to skin up when Agassiz is on hold to get up and out, are they going to stop us from doing that as well?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    This is going to have to be discussed more with Snowbowl, the FS, and back country skiers. As long as we can get up to the low saddle and beyond on a working skin track I wouldn't mind the restrictions, I get that they are trying to get things done but unfortunately we don't really have any other options.

    I'm also worried about wind hold days, we often use the ski area to skin up when Agassiz is on hold to get up and out, are they going to stop us from doing that as well?
    Folks....this is not an issue. Uphill traffic for access into the BC is allowed as per FS and AZ Snowbowl. Uphill access for downhill use within AZ Snowbowl outside of operating hours is allowed. What is not allowed, is uphill access for downhill use within AZ Snowbowl during operating hours, avy control operations or winching as this is theft of service or a safety issue. This is a non issue. Clarification on this policy can be found directly on AZ Snowbowl's web page.

    Bottom Line: if you are accessing the BC, uphill traffic within AZ Snowbowl during all hours is allowed as long as you are off to the side and not interfering in operations or downhill traffic....the normal skin track out to Allison/Dutchmans is preserved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbflg View Post
    I still don't understand how they were able to make access illegal for a single event. Anyone with an understanding of the law want to chime in?

    -db-
    I had no idea that a "wilderness" area could be closed.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    This is going to have to be discussed more with Snowbowl, the FS, and back country skiers. As long as we can get up to the low saddle and beyond on a working skin track I wouldn't mind the restrictions, I get that they are trying to get things done but unfortunately we don't really have any other options.

    I'm also worried about wind hold days, we often use the ski area to skin up when Agassiz is on hold to get up and out, are they going to stop us from doing that as well?
    In the past it wasn't really an issue until they bought the winch cat and the cable hazards that go along with it. Just a guess but that's when things got a bit more contentious. And they have definitely had problems with folks skinning up bowl-side while they're trying to access avy conditions and/or preparing to shoot the cannon into upper bowl.

    But I agree RA, it seems like they could designate an uphill track. The new runs they cut makes the most sense. Up Rt. 66 or Dutchman. From the top catwalk you can head in either direction in relative safety up the ridgeline.

  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    I had no idea that a "wilderness" area could be closed.
    Of course they can. They're the FEDs. The FS can close any part of the national forest (of which designated wilderness areas are usually a part of) if they decide to. They do it for fire danger all the time.

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    Back to our regularly scheduled programming Happy T-Day!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-hc_1995.jpg  


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    thankful for

    another snowy morning ride on schultz

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-1486867_10151834890223123_656899269_n.jpg

    weren't nobody around neither... go figure.
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    another snowy morning ride on schultz

    Click image for larger version. 

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    weren't nobody around neither... go figure.
    That is one serious rut Dude, this cannot be sustainable! Way to get after it and being way more motivated than I!

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    Quote Originally Posted by rockman View Post
    Back to our regularly scheduled programming Happy T-Day!
    It's been a while since I have hit that upper CR zone with snow and lines filled in like that! These picture are getting me stoked!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maadjurguer View Post
    Folks....this is not an issue. Uphill traffic for access into the BC is allowed as per FS and AZ Snowbowl. Uphill access for downhill use within AZ Snowbowl outside of operating hours is allowed. What is not allowed, is uphill access for downhill use within AZ Snowbowl during operating hours, avy control operations or winching as this is theft of service or a safety issue. This is a non issue. Clarification on this policy can be found directly on AZ Snowbowl's web page.

    Bottom Line: if you are accessing the BC, uphill traffic within AZ Snowbowl during all hours is allowed as long as you are off to the side and not interfering in operations or downhill traffic....the normal skin track out to Allison/Dutchmans is preserved.
    Good to hear Maad! There was some talk amongst Flag locals about this yesterday and it's good to hear this from you.

    Nannoo Nannoo.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockychrysler View Post
    another snowy morning ride on schultz

    weren't nobody around neither... go figure.
    Holy jesus, that's one huge rut. Our snow-trails in Anchorage (getting a nice snow-pack finally) don't look anything like that, some are almost level with the surrounding snowpack (slightly tapering maybe?). Hopefully you can get some traffic on the trails and get them packed down. It's so cool what a snow-bike can do. I hit up one today that hadn't been ridden by bikes since about 6-8" of new snow, the snow bike just trucks right through the mashed up stuff from hikers (smoothing it out in the process), it's great. I felt so good that when I got to the top, I built a fire and had a beer
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-img_0135.jpg

    Opening day. They were not very friendly with me.
    Last edited by raisingarizona; 11-30-2013 at 10:25 AM.

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    So Much Stoke!

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-img_0142.jpg

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    The forecast for the week looks pretty good!

    National Weather Service - NWS Flagstaff

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    Way OT but this is nuts!




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    What's the deal with the waste water snow? Doesn't sound appealing

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpbarrett View Post
    What's the deal with the waste water snow? Doesn't sound appealing
    Well SB is the first area to use all and only treated water for snowmaking but most golf courses, ski areas, and city parks use it to some degree. Often our drinking water has a percentage of treated water in it as well. The long term effects are unknown I guess but it's used everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Way OT but this is nuts!




    That is like THE best skydiving video ever!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Well SB is the first area to use all and only treated water for snowmaking but most golf courses, ski areas, and city parks use it to some degree. Often our drinking water has a percentage of treated water in it as well. The long term effects are unknown I guess but it's used everywhere.
    Most Americans have no idea how good they have it. 60% or more of the world would literally kill to have access to our reclaimed waste water. A fair part of the world would kill for it before it was treated. First world problems to the max.

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    I'm sure it's better than the water you drink at a public pool.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    Another OT video but OH MY GOD! So lucky to be alive!!!


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    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Another OT video but OH MY GOD! So lucky to be alive!!!

    Awesome. Were they jumping off Wall Street?

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    Quote Originally Posted by el poseur View Post
    Awesome. Were they jumping off Wall Street?
    Awesome isn't the word that comes to me. Kinda creepy watching the dudes hand slide down the rock in slow motion. But yeah, that's wall street along the Colorado River. There was an incident two weeks ago in Sedona where the same thing happened. Base jumping off Lee Mountain. Must have been a bit of a walk to get to the jump point.

    I suspect between the base jumpers and the slackline/swing thingy that's the new rage, Search and Rescue stays pretty busy in Grand County.

  94. #94
    SamuraiBunnyGuy
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    search and rescue handles basejumpers? wouldnt it be easier to hire a part-time guy with a job title of Scrape & Squeegee?

  95. #95
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    Incoming!

    Powderchasers.com

  96. #96
    slower than you
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    Payson in the crosshairs. Should be awesome for Ski Star Valley!

    2013/2014 Snow Stoke Thread-make_img.jpeg

    Quote Originally Posted by raisingarizona View Post
    Here's hoping Snowhole opens the Agassiz chair this weekend...
    "May your trails be winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." - Ed Abbey
    http://rockychrysler.com/

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  98. #98
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    Powder skiing! That is all.

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    Wind loading refreshers all day long today! So good......

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    Today was incredible!


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