In august 2003 i brought a marin alp bike, to cut a long story short the frame on this range hasnt been tested or designed properly (marin admitted the design fault to me on the phone which caused them to change it for 2005) and after a few hundred miles on tarmaced city roads on separate occasions i had 2 frames snap in the same place, the crank arm snap without warning then the back wheel spokes snapped and wrote off the wheel from where ATB the uk distributers had damaged them after they had it in to replace the faulty parts. i got fed up of it being faulty all the time and wrote a letter asking for a refund to the bike value. Today i got a letter from the uk marin importers (ATB) refusing a refund to the bikes value and saying that they are reserving the right to take legal action over a review i wrote on bikemagic.com where i had given it a low rating, can you believe it!!
their bike is dangerous and constantly faulty and their taking legal action against ME for a bad review!!
unbelieveable, i never thought marin would stoop this low.

A review is matter of opinion and yours has been clearly stated I dont think their leagle action will go to far they are most likely just puffing out their chest. I am not a leagal expert but I wouldn't worrie to much about it.

I don't think there's ANYTHING they could do. If this went crazy, and ended up in court, I would be willing to bet you would win everything.

You posted reviews because it's your opinion, and fact that their bikes are dangerous.

Tell them they'll be hearing from your lawyer if this situation is not rectified.

It's completely ridiculous.

-Plink-

You should post the letter they sent you to every MTB review board and chat group you can... See how they like them apples.

I agree with the other, they are bluffing.

Have them bring it on so you can show the world the quality of bike you had.

Is there a link to this "review"?

First post? How about telling us the whole story now? I find what you say in your first post very hard to beleive. Not only do I want to see the letter, but the posted review also. Until then, I reserve judgement.

As long as you didn't purposely or recklessly post any false information in your review (i.e. saying the frame broke when it didn't) you have nothing to worry about. Youre opinions are COMPLETELY protected by the First Amendment (no matter how crazy they may or may not have been), and your factual statements are also completely protected as long as they are either true or you non-recklessly believed them to be true.

In other words, as long as you didn't purposely lie, you're fine.

[QUOTE=pjmaxon]Youre opinions are COMPLETELY protected by the First Amendment [QUOTE]

The First Amendment is applicable in the UK? Cool!

Can you post a link to the review and a scan of the letter? You say you broke what part of the bike? The crankarm and..... a spoke? Wasn't even aware marin manufactured crankarms, or spokes.

damion- i had a look for the review i posted on bike magic and its mysteriously dissappeared. could be something to do with the website saying its in association with marin!!
i think thats apaulling, they take off bad reviews they dont like leaving the good ones on there which gives people the wrong impression, thats just as bad as slander, in effect it just makes it an advertising board for marin with testimonals by unknowing reviews.

anyway heres a more detailed chronology i complied during my correspondance to marin and if your really interested i can send you a photo of the letter:
Chronology

30/7/2003 Purchased Marin Bear valley model from Berkshire cycles (in crowthorn) for
£475 (receipt retained).

12/2003 Rear stays and frame around crank completely snaps off without warning. I
i fell off when this occurred and had to walk 8 miles back.

2/1/2004 ATB (the Marin UK distributers) provide complete bike upgrade to the next
model up (2004 mill valley model). Receipt retained.

About july 2004 (have repair receipt from Berkshire cycles but not dated) frame snaps again in the same place at horizontal rear stays. ATB acknowledges on the phone that it is a design fault of the marin frame. ATB agree to supply the frame from the next model up when its in stock.
ATB supply a replacement frame in the meantime of the same model but the 2005 version with changes to the frame design to strengthen the area around the crank.

9/11/2004 metal pedal arm snaps without warning on tyler hill. I tell ATB this almost caused me to go in to the side of an oncoming car. After analysis ATB acknowledge this to be the fault of the supplied truvita crank.

20/11/2004 ATB supply a new and slightly better shimano 105 crank and the frame
upgrade to the next model (highway one model) that they agreed when the frame snapped in july. Receipt retained.

24/11/2004 On the second time I used the new setup the spokes on the rear shimano wheel snap without warning and buckle the wheel in herne. Front wheel is ok. Therefore this is probably due to damage during the time ATB and the bike shop in herne bay had it to put the new frame and crank on.

ATB claim they only guarantee the original purchase that I made in August 2003 even though the wheel set is the one they supplied on the 2/1/2004 and they also say they don’t deal with shimano warentees and I must either take it back to the shop I got it from in crowthorn to sent it back to shimano or pay to sent it back to shimano uk distributers myself through a local shop. the shop refuses to send it back to shimano distributers claiming it to be wear and tear despite only being 10 months old and the wheel set is worth £200.

[QUOTE=pjmaxon]Youre opinions are COMPLETELY protected by the First Amendment [QUOTE]

The First Amendment is applicable in the UK? Cool!

...yea its part of Bush's new foreign policy. The First Amendment applies everywhere, or he'll invade. Blair has already signed off.

Seriously though, it seems I forgot that this is an international site, and didn't check where the poster was from (but his reference to Marin UK should have been a big heap'n clue) My mistake.

[QUOTE=pjmaxon]Youre opinions are COMPLETELY protected by the First Amendment [QUOTE]

The First Amendment is applicable in the UK? Cool!


The First Amendment protects U.S. citizens. For Marin to press the issue in a legal manner it would require them to take up said legal action in a U.S. court which would be tossed out in a nanosecond.

Post the letter for others to see.

Can you post a link to the review and a scan of the letter? You say you broke what part of the bike? The crankarm and..... a spoke? Wasn't even aware marin manufactured crankarms, or spokes.


the frame broke twice in the same place, where the horizonal rear stays have the piece of metal that join them togther near the crank it cracked there on the weld because the back triangle is too flexable and this is the stiff point (the 2005 models have a strengthened rear triangle by flayed tubes). the 2nd time this happed i saw it before it got too bad but the first time i didnt see it developing and the stress on the tubes around the crank must have been high because it cause the up tube and diagonal up tube to completely split in two. im pretty sure the new models havent been road tested fully.

the pedal arm on the truvita crank also broke where the pedal screws in to the pedal arm, it sheared in two around the hole.

2 spokes on the back wheel (shamino 16 spoke) broke, the bike came back to me with a slightly buckled back wheel after its repair, im sure thats what caused it

They would get too much bad press if they took you to court. Trust me, if that leaked out, they would loose more sales than they would get out of you. Your best bet would to just keep quiet about it and buy a more reputable brand. The damage is done, they aren't the right bike company for you.


BTW, my girl has a 2000 Bear Valley and its a great bike.

I worked at a shop.
A fellow came in with some solid rubber tires he had made and was shopping them around to customers.
The gm of the shop had me mount them, and right off the bat I knew they were trouble. So did the gm. He put a small mark on the tire and rim, them took them for a quick spin around the lot, and came back by us and grabbed the brakes hard, skidding a bit. When we checked the marks, they no longer lined up, and the tire had rotated on the rim about 12 inches. Not so safe. We told the fella what we saw as wrong, why these wouldn't be good, but he was annoyed that we couldn't see that his product was the greatest thing ever. My gm told him no shop would ever sell these as they were unsafe at any speed.

Maybe a month later the gm takes a call from a "customer" looking to see if we knew of anyone selling solid tires. Without putting 2 and 2 together, the gm went on a tirade about how we just had a set in, how crappy and unsafe they were, etc etc. He went on for 15 minutes really slamming them.

Like a week later the shop gets a "cease and desist" order to stop slandering the product. Naturally we think its a bogus letter from the guy, but it turned out to be legit. Of course, we could've fought it, and probably won, but companies (even small ones) get pissed when you diss their stuff.

However, if I were you, I'd write a second review including the documentation of what Marin told you. Its your opinion after all. If movie and food reviewers can give something a bad review, why can't you.

In august 2003 i brought a marin alp bike, to cut a long story short the frame on this range hasnt been tested or designed properly (marin admitted the design fault to me on the phone which caused them to change it for 2005) and after a few hundred miles on tarmaced city roads on separate occasions i had 2 frames snap in the same place, the crank arm snap without warning then the back wheel spokes snapped and wrote off the wheel from where ATB the uk distributers had damaged them after they had it in to replace the faulty parts. i got fed up of it being faulty all the time and wrote a letter asking for a refund to the bike value. Today i got a letter from the uk marin importers (ATB) refusing a refund to the bikes value and saying that they are reserving the right to take legal action over a review i wrote on bikemagic.com where i had given it a low rating, can you believe it!!
their bike is dangerous and constantly faulty and their taking legal action against ME for a bad review!!
unbelieveable, i never thought marin would stoop this low.


http://www.petebevin.com/troll/trollsm.jpg your boat,
gently down the stream...

yeah, what he said...

I'm sooooo not buying into this one :rolleyes:

...and the tire had rotated on the rim about 12 inches.

Maybe they were "Spinner" tires, eh?

fp

Some battles you just don't fight. Obviously thier company is subpar. I'd just walk away and consider thier threat real. Its better than taking on a lawsuit, even if it is a super small chance. If you lose a lawsuit, your gonna be bummed at the bike you could have bought with the money.

i will try and post the letter when i get to use my sisters scanner in the next few days. they pretty much refute any wrongdoing and deny that they told me about the marin design fault (despite it being the main reason for the change of frame design). they offered me the price of their lowest alp model (?599) as a refund but the bike ive got is worth almost double that. they said the bike should only be used for lightweight training aswell, which excludes all recreational and commuting use! on the phone theyve also said i should be happy with the ?599 they offered as if they wanted they could deduct wear and tear for the time ive had it!
PR isn't their strong point.

im considering taking it to small claims court (which is free in the uk up to £5000) as the refund offered is only about half of what its worth now with the supplied replacement bits on it but i dont know how i stand on this legally- trying to get the value for the bits atb have added as upgrades. if i lose ill have to pay court cousts which could be alot.


incidently the letter they sent me was a 2 page letter from a solicitor which must have taken both atb and the solicitor at least an hour and a half to put together, which i would have though cost a few hundred in solicitors costs. they could have

they could have just resolved the whole thing for that much and supplied a replacement wheel.

i agree about the reposting a review, i dont think theres anything they can do about internet opinions, espically if its just a list of events that occured with all the stuff breaking. i remember when alligations about prince charles being gay were put on the internet a few months ago and they couldnt do anything to get it taken off.
i think marin were pissed because it was on bikemagic 'associated with marin' website, ie their sponsored billboard no doubt.

Until I see proof of what you are saying, I find it hard to believe. The only way that they could come after you is if your review was false. If what you say really happened, there is no case.

I am calling you out, troll. Show us the proof.

Until I see proof of what you are saying, I find it hard to believe. The only way that they could come after you is if your review was false. If what you say really happened, there is no case.

I am calling you out, troll. Show us the proof.

I agree. Sounds like someone paid too much for a crappy bike and is pissed off.

Does anyone seriously think there's ANY legal action to be taken here? Come on that's rediculous!

No offense, but you would have to be one stupid person to think a company could sue you because they sold you a bad product!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If anything, YOU should be the one sueing THEM! You can sue a company over things like faulty products that they knew were faulty but sold anyways!!! This isn't just a USA thing either! People have sued companies for this reason many times before and won, most often resulting in a recal of the product, like they do with car companies.

WWWWTTTTTTTFFFFFF?

If you are legit in what's going on, then it might just be that the bike company is trying to scare you into submission so you don't even consider the idea of SUEING THEM!

IF they had any merrit in the law suit at all then companies would be sueing every single one of use who wrote a bad review on this web site!!!!

I still think this is BS though.

So, you bought a bike for 475. It broke a few times, they supplied free repairs/replacements everytime. They offer a refund of 600 and you say no??? It seems like you want to recieve a refund for the parts they gave you for FREE. Maybe if you paid for them you deserve a refund, but they were FREE.

Take the 600 and walk away. :rolleyes:

crack at the top of the down tube in 98, Marin Gave me a 98 Indian Fire Trail which I traded to a bro, which he broke in 2000 at the tope of the down tube, which Marin replaced with a 2000 Indian Fire Trail, which he sold to a bro and that one is still going strong.

You very well might be in trouble. If you've made erroneous conclusions about the Marin frames and then stated them as fact to the general public, you could very well be sued for libel.

Lots of idiots on the mtbr.com reviews make comments like, "This frame SUCKS", etc. These are probably not libelous statments as they are clearly opinionated. But should someone make the statement that, "This company does not test its products and puts out untested and poor quality merchandise", that could very well be libel.

If you're going to write an intelligent review, you must state fact and opinion. Fact consists of what happened to your frame, what you were told by Marin, what Marin did for you (or didn't do for you, etc.) Opinion is something you start with "I think", or something that is clearly a subjective statment like "this frame sucks" or the "quality is poor".

I'm not a lawyer, but this is all pretty common knowledge. Watch your step when you write reviews. You might want to send a letter to Marin apologizing, but also pointing out the fact that the quality of their frames is suspect and that they haven't treated you well.

Find some sort of common ground where the two parties are willing to work something out.









In august 2003 i brought a marin alp bike, to cut a long story short the frame on this range hasnt been tested or designed properly (marin admitted the design fault to me on the phone which caused them to change it for 2005) and after a few hundred miles on tarmaced city roads on separate occasions i had 2 frames snap in the same place, the crank arm snap without warning then the back wheel spokes snapped and wrote off the wheel from where ATB the uk distributers had damaged them after they had it in to replace the faulty parts. i got fed up of it being faulty all the time and wrote a letter asking for a refund to the bike value. Today i got a letter from the uk marin importers (ATB) refusing a refund to the bikes value and saying that they are reserving the right to take legal action over a review i wrote on bikemagic.com where i had given it a low rating, can you believe it!!
their bike is dangerous and constantly faulty and their taking legal action against ME for a bad review!!
unbelieveable, i never thought marin would stoop this low.

the frames i can see you wanting to get warrantied. the crank could also be warrantied, but that's an issue to be taken up with the brand that made the crank- Truvativ. NOT MARIN. as for the broken spoke, stop being a cheapskate and go spend a couple bucks to maintain your bike. sometimes parts break.

You are having a problem with Marin "UK". Let's make that clear. (It appears that a lot of people are not reading the whole thread before they reply.) I am wondering what Marin UK offers as a warranty on their bikes. Is it much different from Marin USA?

I'm not sure what the whole truth is, since I have only read your rantings, but you'll probably want to be careful about making it worse with your agressive statements on this site.

I have pre paid legal service. I have had to use them twice, in both cases a letter from a law firm quickly changed their attitudes.

..i got fed up of it being faulty all the time and wrote a letter asking for a refund to the bike value. Today i got a letter from the uk marin importers (ATB) refusing a refund to the bikes value and saying that they are reserving the right to take legal action over a review i wrote on bikemagic.com where i had given it a low rating, can you believe it!!.

Qaz, speak to your local Trading Standards. They deal with this sort of thing all the time, and will give free advice. There's also a National advice line - don't have the number but a Google, or a search on the BBC web site should give a hit.

Have to admit, if they have agreed to refund the original purchase price – that’s more than fair.

I think I'll have to go with Oaken and Harp, and say *cough* *TROLL!!!* *cough* that I am skeptical about the authors claims.

Even though I have fewer posts. Oh well.

cowabunga

That's so poor... call their bluff man. There's nothing they can do... absolutely nothing.
Whatever offensive action they take, they'll lose.

Until I see proof of what you are saying, I find it hard to believe. The only way that they could come after you is if your review was false. If what you say really happened, there is no case.

I am calling you out, troll. Show us the proof.
There was something similar about 4 years ago. A woman was sued (and actually lost) for posting a negative review on a fish hobbyist web site or something. The site sued her, and was awarded over a million I believe. I'm not sure what the precedence the jury was setting, but this dude's story sounds similar.

well heres the scan of their solicitors letter the only thing ive done is blank out my address. i had to cut and resize it for uploading.

page 1 part 2

page 2 part 1

page 2 part1

page 2 part 2

the only change i have made is to blank out my address.

to clarify a few points if your interested in the details of it- i asked them for a refund of the bikes value after they had put on the replacement parts, well you dont ask you dont get right and considering how dangerous and all the hassle its been i dont think thats too much to ask, espically considering their solicors cost must have been a few hundred.

anyway they say the frame had cracked in a different place the second time, i dont know how they can say that as it was in exactly the same place -on the inside weld of the cross bar on the horizontal rear stays. the first frame completely snapped in two after it had given way there first, i can only think that thats what they mean ie the whole frame didnt snap the second time. i think the solicitor must have misunderstood about the truvita crank too as atb didnt say it was a fault inherant of all truvita cranks that caused mine to snap just it was the fault of this one on my bike.

the bit at the bottom of page one is also incorrect, where i had put handlebar grips on their bar ends and they thought i had put the barends on myself. i had put an adjustable stem on too but how they can then go on to say just because ive put an adjustable stem and barend grips on means it hasnt been used properly is absurd is my mind. anyway i cant see how they can sell a bike and say its only for lightweight training because it doesnt say that anywhere in the paperwork it came with, in fact it says its designed as a roadbike with the upright position of a city bike and if it cant do 6 miles a day on tarmaced roads its not fit for its purpose.

(page 2) atb told me on the phone they would only guarentee my original purchase and from the date i brought it. this is also the first thing ive heard about any offer of free spokes, atb said they had noting to do with shimano and just told me to go back to the shop, the shop said it couldnt be repaired anyway so i guess they must have got that mixed up there somehow.

the second paragraph on page 2 that mentions the local shop is the bit i find most objectionable becasue i did nothing except go in there an ask them to send my bike back to atb, i wasnt angry, rude, abrupt or anything and although the shop i orignally brought it from was good about everything this guy in my local shop said he didnt want anything to do with it because he didnt sell it to me and i think he must have just told atb a whole load of lies in defense of himself because he knew he would come in to trouble with them if i told them about how he wouldnt write me any recipts or saying how he did didnt want the crap from it as he put it or even how he lost the pedals when they sent it back to him.

i didnt like that customer service or that of atb as i had only asked them to replace the faulty parts with the same or better ones, which is what your entitled to if somethings faulty, i wouldnt say them replacing the faulty parts is bending over backwards for me as they put it and all the time i had to argue my case and spend age on the phone and when the crank broke they didnt even believe it till they saw it.

my review i posted only stated about all the failures these bikes have had and i said it was dangerous and mentioned they told me about their weak frame which has had to be redesigned and i said i wouldnt touch it with a bargepole but after whats happened and how dangerous its been there was nothing defamatory about it as it was just an account of the failures and me saying i wouldnt even condider this range of bikes again as they clearly havent been tested enough.
the dangerous thing about it is everyone else with the pre- 2005 alp models are probably going to have it crack then snap on them after theyve put some miles on it, its only because i cycle everyday that ive been the first one to experience it.

ive put this whole thing to a no win no fee solicitor and its being considered at the moment. hopefully it will get somewhere because the alp frames have been so dangerous for me.

EMAN "So, you bought a bike for 475. It broke a few times, they supplied free repairs/replacements everytime. They offer a refund of 600 and you say no??? It seems like you want to recieve a refund for the parts they gave you for FREE. Maybe if you paid for them you deserve a refund, but they were FREE.

Take the 600 and walk away. "


well i guess i could take the refund even though its worth about £400 more now than their offering so i dont know if its worth it. plus ive got all the bit (tyres, tubes, brackets etc) on my current one.
i guess im annoyed that everytime it went wrong i had to walk miles back, i almost got hit by a car twice, i had to drive miles to the shop keep taking it back all the time, i got injured when i fell off and all the hassle of trying to get it sorted out and fixed then not having any transport etc and its all been down to things going wrong that just shouldnt have.

its just been so dangerous after almost being hit by a car and so much hassle then for them to say well heres your money back and we might take legal action over a bad review despite our frames snapping on you, is just appalling.

i dont know if its worth taking the refund given the current value although the wheel is still broken. its just been the worst and most dangerous product ive ever brought in my life. and although its easy to sit here and type about almost being runover, when it happens when your going quite fast its a really scarey thing and could have easily left me permantly damaged.
when they just say well heres your money back and threaten legal action for a quite legitimate bad review after that is just unacceptable that they can act like that and get away with it if nobody does anything.
and the pre 2005 frames are still out there, whos to say that something worse might not happen to someone else as marin havent even been recalled them or been challenged about it.

Okay, having followed this thread since its inception, I can now confidently say that you are a lunatic. You buy a lightweight bike, use it for a ton of commuting, it breaks, they offer you a full refund, and you want to spend the rest of your life getting even with them? Um ... they offered you a full refund. What do you want them to do? Buy you a house? Take the refund, buy yourself a bike that is more appropriate for the use you intend to put it to, and stop whining. Geez Louise.

They sell bikes. Sometimes the bikes break. Most of the bikes don't break, but some of them do. When the bikes break, they offer to refund the price of the bike. Then a consumer activist nutcase spends 100 hours trying to prove that he's entitled to double the value of the bike. You're not. And if you paid yourself $5 an hour for all the hours you've spent on this nonsense, instead of accepting their perfectly reasonable offer of a refund, you could've bought the upgraded bike already and be done with it. Get a life.

Okay, having followed this thread since its inception, I can now confidently say that you are a lunatic. You buy a lightweight bike, use it for a ton of commuting, it breaks, they offer you a full refund, and you want to spend the rest of your life getting even with them? Um ... they offered you a full refund. What do you want them to do? Buy you a house? Take the refund, buy yourself a bike that is more appropriate for the use you intend to put it to, and stop whining. Geez Louise.

They sell bikes. Sometimes the bikes break. Most of the bikes don't break, but some of them do. When the bikes break, they offer to refund the price of the bike. Then a consumer activist nutcase spends 100 hours trying to prove that he's entitled to double the value of the bike. You're not. And if you paid yourself $5 an hour for all the hours you've spent on this nonsense, instead of accepting their perfectly reasonable offer of a refund, you could've bought the upgraded bike already and be done with it. Get a life.

Spoken like a lawyer!! Phil you the man! By the way how are things? .....jdcamb

I was thinking about you in December, because we were in Rochester for a hockey tournament. Rochester ... that's your neck of the woods, isn't it? I didn't bring my bike, and between all the hockey and the constant drinking in the hotel, I didn't have time to do much, but we did have a fun time. Took the kids to the Strong Museum - what an awesome place.

The weather around here has been crappy for riding - either it's too freaking cold, or it's too warm. And me with my new Nokian Extreme 296's sitting in my basement collecting dust. I did have an outstanding ride in South Florida over the Christmas break - met some real nice folks at Jim's Bicycles near Ft. Lauderdale, and the shop owner let me rent his really nice Jekyll, and one of the regulars took me through the trails - really nice trails and great ride.

When you coming back round these parts Jim? That last visit was fantastic - loved the company and the riding. Looking forward to doing it again.

Take the money. You "got even" with them just by discussing the case on here. They look really bad, but you now look very silly. I wouldn't buy a Marin after reading this, but also not sell you something else.

Okay, having followed this thread since its inception, I can now confidently say that you are a lunatic. You buy a lightweight bike, use it for a ton of commuting, it breaks, they offer you a full refund, and you want to spend the rest of your life getting even with them? Um ... they offered you a full refund. What do you want them to do? Buy you a house? Take the refund, buy yourself a bike that is more appropriate for the use you intend to put it to, and stop whining. Geez Louise.

They sell bikes. Sometimes the bikes break. Most of the bikes don't break, but some of them do. When the bikes break, they offer to refund the price of the bike. Then a consumer activist nutcase spends 100 hours trying to prove that he's entitled to double the value of the bike. You're not. And if you paid yourself $5 an hour for all the hours you've spent on this nonsense, instead of accepting their perfectly reasonable offer of a refund, you could've bought the upgraded bike already and be done with it. Get a life.


well thats your opinion, i just dont think something should be sold to the public thats dangerous (in my experience), its not just about getting my money back and personally i think not even one bike should be manufactured to be used on the road thats dangerous, quality control and design should be better than that now and we wouldnt accept this standard if it was a car or a motor bike so why should we with our bikes? i dont think you understand that even one defective bike is too many and how dangerous that is when u come off on the road almost under a car.
my model should have easily been able to withstand about 6 miles a day on smooth roads, the same fault would have occured even if it was only strictly used for lightweight training. i at least hope to inform other users of this model of my experience and dealings with marin, i would have been glad to have know this information before i decided on buying it.

It's too bad that you bought a bike that broke. Lots of us have had bikes that have broken. When it happens, you hope that the manufacturer stands behind the warranty and offers a refund or a replacement. They did, in this case, but that wasn't good enough for you. No, you wanted upgraded wheels, upgraded cranks and an upgraded frame. That's when they told you to piss off.

Defects happen. It's unfortunate, but unavoidable. All manufactured goods have defects. Marin has a good reputation for quality bikes, meaning that they probably don't have a very high defect rate. But you saying that there should be no defects ever is just pie in the sky. Try running a business and let me know how your zero-defect policy works out. You'll spend more on quality control and testing than you'll make in revenues.

You didn't get hurt. Nobody got hurt. You bought a product that had a defect. They offered you a full refund. Get over it.

I was thinking about you in December, because we were in Rochester for a hockey tournament. Rochester ... that's your neck of the woods, isn't it? I didn't bring my bike, and between all the hockey and the constant drinking in the hotel, I didn't have time to do much, but we did have a fun time. Took the kids to the Strong Museum - what an awesome place.

The weather around here has been crappy for riding - either it's too freaking cold, or it's too warm. And me with my new Nokian Extreme 296's sitting in my basement collecting dust. I did have an outstanding ride in South Florida over the Christmas break - met some real nice folks at Jim's Bicycles near Ft. Lauderdale, and the shop owner let me rent his really nice Jekyll, and one of the regulars took me through the trails - really nice trails and great ride.

When you coming back round these parts Jim? That last visit was fantastic - loved the company and the riding. Looking forward to doing it again.

A lot has happened since my last visit. My family in Canada has fallen apart and I no longer need to go up and visit anymore. I would like to plan a trip in your direction towards spring. Good to hear you had fun here in Rochester. I don't get that a lot. Next time you come bring your bike. I may be moving soon to Colorado Springs so we will have to hookup before/if I go......jdcamb

It's too bad that you bought a bike that broke. Lots of us have had bikes that have broken. When it happens, you hope that the manufacturer stands behind the warranty and offers a refund or a replacement. They did, in this case, but that wasn't good enough for you. No, you wanted upgraded wheels, upgraded cranks and an upgraded frame. That's when they told you to piss off.

Defects happen. It's unfortunate, but unavoidable. All manufactured goods have defects. Marin has a good reputation for quality bikes, meaning that they probably don't have a very high defect rate. But you saying that there should be no defects ever is just pie in the sky. Try running a business and let me know how your zero-defect policy works out. You'll spend more on quality control and testing than you'll make in revenues.

You didn't get hurt. Nobody got hurt. You bought a product that had a defect. They offered you a full refund. Get over it.



both my frames broke in the same place in under 6 months of not even heavy use, that goes beyond the odd defective one thats a design fault in my view and a dangerous one. it wouldnt have taken too much testing to have found that and i suspect this is due to it being a new line of non-mountain bikes for marin.

i wasnt pestering them for upgrades either i just asked for the same or better, i would have been more than happy if my original purchased worked. if someone finds a dangerous defect with a product they want to make it known to the manufacturer and other customers for their own safety.

Sorry to hear about the family thing. But Colorado Springs sounds exciting. You got work there?

You're always welcome here Jim, and you know you've got a place to stay. So definitely plan a visit for the spring. The trails usually stay wet here until early May, although it depends a lot on the season (and the thaw). As far as spring riding goes, generally the later the better.

I haven't seen Russ in a while, but I don't think he's ever said no to a ride.

Sorry to hear about the family thing. But Colorado Springs sounds exciting. You got work there?

You're always welcome here Jim, and you know you've got a place to stay. So definitely plan a visit for the spring. The trails usually stay wet here until early May, although it depends a lot on the season (and the thaw). As far as spring riding goes, generally the later the better.

I haven't seen Russ in a while, but I don't think he's ever said no to a ride.

Got a job, place to live, everything. Just have to figure out what to do with my Mom. She was in Cardio Pulminary rehab but she got kicked out for smoking?? We are trying to convince her to step up to the plate. Our only options are to put her in a assisted care facility until she can get her Social Security crap worked out. I no longer have the resources available to help her anymore. I have to get on with my life and will feel bad dumping her on my brother. But I can only help those who are willing to help themselves.

I know the deal on the trails. Thanks for the offer too. I'll PM you when the time comes near......jdcamb

If these bikes are so inherently dangerous, many others must be braking them too, right? You're going about this all wrong. If you're concerned about safety or something you needf to get together with all of the hundreds of others who've broken these bikes and have a class action suit.

I think offering a full refund for WHAT YOU PAID is perfectly reasonable. Marin shouldn't have to be punished by giving you a free upgrade. If the new bike is worth so much to you, then keep it!

You've broken a lot of parts made by a lot of companies besides the frame, so you are either very hard on your equipment or you need to lose some serious weight. Get a heavier duty bike.

qaz, I'm sure you realise by now the Marin's are not working out for you. For whatever reason you are not able to ride them in a manner that suits you without them breaking. It's a bad deal - sometimes that happens - often the companies stiff us. Here ATB sales have offered you a refund. I'm afraid is you are only entitled to the money you have spent, so it's £599.

You are on your third failure with Marin - I can't see a forth attempt making any difference, and it looks like ATB sales have come to that same conclusion. Take the money and try somewhere else.

both my frames broke in the same place in under 6 months of not even heavy use, that goes beyond the odd defective one thats a design fault in my view and a dangerous one. it wouldnt have taken too much testing to have found that and i suspect this is due to it being a new line of non-mountain bikes for marin.

i wasnt pestering them for upgrades either i just asked for the same or better, i would have been more than happy if my original purchased worked. if someone finds a dangerous defect with a product they want to make it known to the manufacturer and other customers for their own safety.


But that still does not entitle you to extra money BEYOND WHAT YOU ORIGINALLY PAID OUT OF YOUR POCKET!!!

You keep saying that you want to make it known that the bike is not safe. Well, you've DONE that!! You've stated many times that you have made it known to the manufacturer and the general public that you have a deep concern about the quality of the bike. DONE! You DID your part. THE END.

Now that you've told them your concerns, they have offered you a FULL refund for your original purchase price. Now what? What more do you want? Please explain how extorting extra money from them is going to make your point to them any more clear?

It seems to me like you are trying to collect extra money to compensate you for your inconvenience in dealing with this entire experience. While in principal that sounds great, legally you don't have a leg to stand on. And in the mean time, you keep digging deeper and deeper, inconveniencing youself even MORE than if you had just accepted their MORE THAN GENEROUS and EXTREMELY FAIR offer in the first place.

Imagine if I went to XYZ fast food emporium, and bought a meal for $5.00. I took a bite and didn't like it, but then I ate the whole thing anyway. Then I go to the manager and complain, so he apoligizes, and gives me, (I repeat... he GIVES ME) a coupon for a FREE MEAL worth $5.00. The next day I come in and order another meal, and pay for it with the FREE COUPON THAT I DIDN'T HAVE TO PAY FOR. I eat the FREE meal, and, once again, am dissatisfied with it. I go to the manager and demand my money back. How much money do you think I'd be entitled to? According to your logic, it would be $10.00. Well, you're wrong. I am entitled to $5.00, because $5.00 is all that I paid out of my pocket for the first meal the previous day.

Now, if I got violently ill from eating one of these meals and had to be rushed to the hospital because of food poisoning, and as a result I was stricken with some permanent disability that prevented me from ever working again. If it turns out the food was tainted because of neglance on the restaurant's part, then I could sue them for damages above and beyond the $5.00 and medical bills, and I would be right to do so. HOWEVER, in YOUR case, you did NOT suffer any injury, or damages (other than minor inconvenience), THEREFORE, you are entitled to NOT ONE RED CENT above and beyond your original out of pocket expense of buying the bike.

As pissed off as you might be about the whole situation, you have to take a step back and put yourself in their shoes. They have been building bikes for a long time. They build quality products, or else people wouldn't speak so highly of them on mike forums and buy their products. Your situation, while unfortunate, is probably a rare case. As a manufacturer, it is your responsibility to do whatever possible WITHIN REASON to satisfy the customer with a fair resolution that works for all parties involved. They offered you an upgraded frame AT NO COST TO YOU, they replaced several components AT NO COST TO YOU, and finally when you STILL couldn't be pacified, they offered you a FULL REFUND for the money you paid out of pocket to buy the bike in the first place.

Any SINGLE ONE of those resolutions would have been considered MORE than satisfactory and fair to any normally functioning, mentally sane, and rational human being. And yet when you were given ALL THREE of these options COMBINED, that STILL wasn't good enough for you.

My advice to you...
1. Take the refund offer while it is still on the table AND BE HAPPY WITH IT!!!
2. Quit slandering the company before you get sued and then YOU will owe THEM money
3. Go see a shrink and ask him to prescribe electro-shock therapy
4. Go buy a bike that is appropriate for whatever you are using it for.

I don't understand what this guy's bike has to do with mountain biking. I don't understand why he didn't take the refund. I think he's probably a major pain, or they wouldn't have had a lawyer write him a letter. When you break a spoke on a 10 month old wheel you fix it. A single cracked frame maybe I'd give 'em another chance, but on a second frame no way, I'd get a refund and move onwards.

Now about that crank what the heck brand is "truvita" (even in the lawyer's letter that way, which I find very odd as I assume this is Truvativ misspelled).

Whacko.

Seems like Marin spent a long time and money to make this happy. undoubtedly, they spent more money on the legal fees than the upgrades they gave him and now they're buying him out of his bike and he won't take it.

Total whack job.

qaz:
Like an above post said; if you do want to make it a point that their bikes are inherently dangerous, you'll need to find some other people and launch a class action lawsuit. Otherwise, you have no chance of winning.

On the other hand, given what Marin has done to try to make you happy, I don't know where you're going to find any sympathy for your case.

. I am not a leagal expert but I wouldn't worrie to much about it.
Man I hope not :D

having seen the document you received I can tell you that its not a lawsuit yet and it cant become a lawsuit, (btw, i didnt read the whole thread so if someone else has said this sorry). thats just a "tactic" to get you to shut up, the document comes from a lawfirm, its quite common practice to scare people... as long as its not a notifying document from any judicial institution youve got no worries and rest assure its never gonna be.
marin has no legal case, they just want you to shut up or say youre sorry

You should post the letter they sent you to every MTB review board and chat group you can... See how they like them apples.

that is a great start....but I would give them one last chance to correct it or tell them what you are going to do.

2ed start everything off IMO (In my opinion)

I'll just throw in my two cents.

I think Marin has gone far beyond what is neccessary to try and resolve the situation. My hat is off to them. Every mechanical product made has a failure rate, whether a bike, a car, or a toaster. The fact that one fails does not make it a dangrous product.

As far as their letter, they didn't say that they would sue you, but noted that they are not waiving their rights to do so. To the extend you posted false, defamatory statements they do have a cause cause of action in court. While, I do not practice law in the UK, I do in the US and have no reason to believe they couldn't pursue a legal remedy in the UK for your statements.