Many of you may already have this pic from Niner bikes in your inbox, but for those of you that are not on their info list here is a copy the email regarding the Niner singlespeed frame. Looks nice.

"Thanks again for your interest in Niner Bikes. As a member of our mailing list, you'll be the first to get information as it becomes available. You may or may not have seen photographs of Niner's first frame, the One 9. Attached is an image of the small frame, in Green Anthracite.

As you can see, we are using Easton Scandium GX2 tubing, making the One 9 one of the lightest single speed 29" wheel bikes on the market. While weight was a key element of the design process for the One 9, it was never at the expense of ride quality. Niner worked with Easton to develop custom Scandium tubes designed specifically for the needs of a single speed and 29" wheels. The result is an incredibly agile, fast, and resilient ride.

The One 9 was designed from the ground up, and everything on the frame was purpose built. Details include custom single speed specific vertical drop outs, custom 110 gram EBB, and machined out head tube and BB shell for added weight savings. To keep the handlebar height from getting out of hand, the One 9 has an ultra short head tube. In addition, this frame has a short seat tube to keep the top tube out of your way when climbing, maximize stand over height, and is designed to be used with a 410 mm post.

The Niner One 9 should be available for sale in Mid May 05.

In the weeks to come, as we finalize more information such as geometry and pricing, you'll be the first to know. In the meantime, we hope this wets your appetite. Thanks again for your interest in Niner Bikes.


Chris
Niner Bikes "

That's what it looks like. But maybe the new design incorporates a new clamping system as well? I'm eager to see the new EBB - at 110 grams, that's a solid 30 grams lighter than the Bushnell units. Not bad.

-W

Beautiful bike!! Not "Yuck" at all. Great color and I wish you much success!!!!

Not sure if this helps.

Set screw. That would be my choice of an aluminum frame.

I like the lines on that bike. Very sleek. Nice color too.

I like it a lot - if I was looking for a pure super light race bike that could be it.

One thing that seems a little odd is the "finalising geometry and pricing" BS. They obviously had some pretty specific ideas in mind when designing the frame - if they really went to so much trouble as to "work with Easton to develop custom Scandium tubes" you'd think they'd have to be pretty sure on geometry....

Even more so pricing - this appears to be a well organised business that has strong ideas about what niche they're aiming for. If they really planned as well as they seem to have done, they should know what price they need to sell the frames for before they even have the first one built.

I can't help thinking that this "Niner" bikes is an off-shoot of a major manufacturer, headed up by an enlightened soul, but still carrying the marketing hype of the big brands... I hope I'm wrong...

Sam

Come on, even Salsa, with frames in stock, doesn't have geometry and priceing totally ready for us.
So, Niner decided to get some attention for their stuff before they were actually able to take orders, sue them. See what Fisher and all those others do, show in August, delivery in very late January. Niner could still turn out to be quicker to come with product than any bigshot company. Give them a break, if only it's for heir obvious dedication to 29"ers.

My point is that if they've sourced special tubes and been thinking about low standover, short headtubes, etc, they must have been pretty clear on geometry. I'm just not a fan of all this cloak and dagger - empty websites / coming soon / special mailing lists / hype-building crap. How hard is it to just finalise your product, then come out and say, "this is what we've done, this is how much it will cost, we like it, and hope you do too".

I feel they're doing themselves a disservice - they've obviously put a lot of thought and effort into their product. Mostly those riding or considering 29" wheels have been around bikes a long time and are over being swayed by marketing spin.

Sam

Niner and Voodoo are playing a little chess match with the scandium thing. They're the only companies offering ultra-leightweight frames, and they're both waiting for each other to set a pricepoint. If Voodoo sets theirs at 800 then niner sets theirs at 699 and voodoo's screwed and vice versa. I know the niner is an ss, but it aint too hard to put that little der tab on there.

The Niner's custom EBB is worth some' IMO. Wonder if both use the same level tubing.

That's what it looks like. But maybe the new design incorporates a new clamping system as well? I'm eager to see the new EBB - at 110 grams, that's a solid 30 grams lighter than the Bushnell units. Not bad.

-W

Walt,

What are the drawbacks of a set-screw EBB? Seems like a pretty solid way to hold the system in place. Less complex than a Bushnell, none of that splitting the BB shell like a clamp style.

Moto

I has all the specs for a light and responsive ride.

But I am reading this book called "Blink". And the first thing that popped into my head when I saw the frame was "it has no soul". Just my impression.

I have two Monkeys, you see.

Maybe I am a sucker for the "Master Says Faster" and "Your bike sucks" stickers on the Bianchi X.X.S.S. frames. Or the "1FG" moniker that even Cannondale was able to muster. And of course the "Fatties fit fine" we all know and love from Surly.

However, I think this is good for the general acceptance of 29ers in the "boy racer" market and the market as a whole. This is what happens as a small niche moves toward main stream. Perhaps the success of the "One 9" will inspire Trek to make an OCLV 29er hard tail or something.

Although Niner starts out with an EBB SS model, they are no Surly. For them, a SS as a first model makes sense as SS'ers are so much more openminded and thus more likely to convert to 29". Quite possibly an easier market than high-end geared 29".
To me personally, the 1FG never had any sool, it was just a projection of what the SS community seemed to be about for Cannondale, and a way to look bad-ass in a new way. An other CAAD, but now EBB, wowzerz...

I think something like Niner has a good change to become a big-sale brand over the years, being so dedicated to the new standard in wheels, and prepared to dive into it head-first, from the highest bridge. A new brand, starting with the most advanced frame material, for a 29" SS-specific frame, and then also voluntarily taking up the additional challenge to use a custom lighter EBB unit, that's promising een without the very nice pre-pro pictures.
If I had the money (or jsut a bit more dedication and gut?), I'd to be doing something very similar right now. I respect Niner for doing what for me is just a daydream over lunch.

I agree, the movement needs an OCLV-type 29" frame from a big company, even if only as a reassurance for newbies not so sure 29" is such a good long-term investment, passing fad, bla bla. The Salsa Dos Niner is another step in that direction, good to have them on board as well.

Chris,

Are the bikes going to be manufactured in the Knoxville area? I noticed the Knoxville cycling plug on the bottom of your email.

Chris,

Are the bikes going to be manufactured in the Knoxville area? I noticed the Knoxville cycling plug on the bottom of your email.


I wish. I have nothing to do with this company. These are just pics I received after signing up for Niner bikes info list. I should have made that more clear in my post. Sorry.

C/mon guys - lets no poo-poo a frame or jump to conclusions here. From my understanding the Niner Bikes jumped on the opening of a yearly when on of mtbr's sales guys called him to let him know it was open. So they got a banner up and are still working the kinks on their frames. Aosty, and some other southern CA folks have seen and ridden this frame and they have said "it's the real deal." I've talked with Chris @ Niner and they are not an offshoot of another big box bike brand. They are two guys that ride 29"ers and saw the need for a lightweight and affordable frame and have worked in the bike industry in one capacity or another in the past so they have experience. It's not a fly by night operation.

So some of you guys who are dissing the bike while knowing nothing about it need to wake up and put yourself in their shoes if you were passionate about 29"er and it was YOU starting up a company and wishing to produce affordable frames.

And no, I have no involvement in Niner Bikes. I'm just the lurking moderator here that doesn't want to see what happened to the Salsa frame happen here (even through Salsa did release a pre-production sample at dirt demo.) My guess is Niner wants to get it nailed right the first time and avoid a tarnished name due to a less than perfect prototype.

Rant mode off.

Brett

Downsides I've seen (and I only built a couple before switching to the Bushnells) are:
-Tend to slip
-Require ridiculous amounts of torque on the set screw bolts sometimes
-Set screws can dig little divots into the EBB itself, which can make it hard to get the tension you want (once the divot is there, the screw will try to find it if it's nearby next time you tighten it down).

I don't like split shells for much the same reasons. And with the new Bushnells at 140 grams (with all their hardware) it's hard for me to accept anything that is only a few grams lighter (not counting the set screws and mounts, even) and has these problems. I've NEVER had a complaint about slipping or seizing or anything else on one of my Bushnell equipped bikes - and the design of those things is wicked clever, IMO. Maybe that's the main reason, really. Set screws seem too crude, I just like the cleverness of the Bushnell.

Of course, the Bushnell units are like 10x as expensive, too. So that matters some. Pinch bolt and set screw designs are super cheap, there's no getting around that.

-Walt

Walt,

What are the drawbacks of a set-screw EBB? Seems like a pretty solid way to hold the system in place. Less complex than a Bushnell, none of that splitting the BB shell like a clamp style.

Moto

Bad mouthing the competition hurts both. To hear the chiding comments, and who they are coming from, only raises my interest in Niner bikes. I hope these frames are made domestically, to me "Made in the U.S.A." is the ultimate counter culture.
..Todays John Henry...

Obviously the person making the statement has never worked in Product Development. It is extremely difficult with multiple parties involved, numbers not finalized, erc... I applaud Niner, whoever it turns out to be, on taking their time to follow a rigorous process to get product right. This will save them in the long run.

On the Scandium thing: Don't forget the Salsa Dos Niner is also a full Scandium tubeset. Salsa has been using Scandium since they started producing Non-steel bikes. The Dos-niner is no exception.

I think that's a good looking bike, nice color too. I like they're geometry thoughts too..."designed around a 410mm post"...sweet

Agreed. Seems like there is a lot of unwarranted bashing. Patience...or in the words of my favorite fab'er, "Relax."

Bravo 2M. The only thing I'm sure of with Niner is that they're a new 29" frame in the market. How is this a bad thing? Quit yer *****en' folks, let 'em come out with this as they can, and let 'em do it right. I for one do give a flyin' rats ass about this cloak & dagger stuff. They're a private company, and they can do what they damn well please. If I was in the market for a SS, I'd certainly consider these guys. The frame looks fantastic. And already owning a scandium bike, I know how well they ride. With a loooong post it'll be even better(I own a 'cross bike).

http://happymtb.org/forum/read.php/1/130718

Bad mouthing the competition hurts both. To hear the chiding comments, and who they are coming from, only raises my interest in Niner bikes. I hope these frames are made domestically, to me "Made in the U.S.A." is the ultimate counter culture.
..Todays John Henry...
Hey now.. I was just sharing my personal impression with the "no soul" thing. Maybe for me it's about how no one seems to be affiliated with this outfit except for "Chris" and they don't reveal who they are. Surly is Surly, Walt is Walt, Matt Chester is the egg man (koo koo, ka choo).

Sharing my initial impression is not "bad mouthing." Saying something like "I bet it rides harsh and is not very strong" or "I know these guys and they screwed over customers at their last gig" would be bad mouthing. I don't know theses guys and I don't ride aluminum so there. ;-)

My 1FG has no soul and it's "Handmade in the USA". And after my ride on my SS Monkey at Tyler State Park the 1FG is for sale. The 1FG is a cool bike, like Cloxxki says in a Cannondale sort of way. And we know who they are too.

So hey... I hope Niner is successful. I just hope they make something that differs significantly from GF and Cannondale. We already have that stuff.

Mike

I believe bike "soul" is overrated. The rider has/gives the bike soul. Doesn't matter where the bike comes from. I have seen the guys on 300.00 Treks that have lots o' soul and guys with uber cool, ulrta rare handmade frames that were just another a$$hole with a lot of money.

Walt,

What are the drawbacks of a set-screw EBB? Seems like a pretty solid way to hold the system in place. Less complex than a Bushnell, none of that splitting the BB shell like a clamp style.

MotoThe only drawbacks I see are the divots in the EBB insert. I use and prefer the pinch bolts on a steel frame. On an aluminum frame the setscrews are more durable.

I have not had or seen any issues with slipping if the shell and insert are properly sized. Never had to use much force to lock the BB in place.

I like that they are dead simple. The insert is very unlikely to jam in the shell. I the off chance that it does it can be pressed out and it is not wedging itself in place.

...One thing that seems a little odd is the "finalising geometry and pricing" BS...
Sam
Not BS at all!

You can do all your homework. Do the CAD drawings. Rework them. Then when you build the first frames they may not ride exactly how you wanted, or the clearances were not just right. Maybe the chainstay length needs to be changed by 2-3mm so you have a better gearing range with the EBB. The final pricing is changing for the tubing (Exchange rates can be hell). The frame is taking longer to weld than you thought or you are still looking at welders and painters. Then you need to build more prototypes. OOPS the insurance quote just came in! YIKES!!!! Did we forget to pay ourselves? The state wants HOW MUCH for workmans comp?!?

So...wouldn't you rather have a bike that is right from the first and is priced so the company will be around for a while?

soul lives in the dropouts. it always has. plus, look at those chainstays. sexy.

Not BS at all!

You can do all your homework. Do the CAD drawings. Rework them. Then when you build the first frames they may not ride exactly how you wanted, or the clearances were not just right. Maybe the chainstay length needs to be changed by 2-3mm so you have a better gearing range with the EBB. The final pricing is changing for the tubing (Exchange rates can be hell). The frame is taking longer to weld than you thought or you are still looking at welders and painters. Then you need to build more prototypes. OOPS the insurance quote just came in! YIKES!!!! Did we forget to pay ourselves? The state wants HOW MUCH for workmans comp?!?

So...wouldn't you rather have a bike that is right from the first and is priced so the company will be around for a while?

Fine, and all very good points Shiggy, but if you're still at that point in the product design process, perhaps it's a little premature to be releasing pics, advertising etc. Yes, things may change at the last minute, but my feeling is that by talking about a yet-to-be released product with little finalised info is only setting yourself up for a fall. Some people will love what you are selling - then may be dissappointed if your final product isn't what you'd said. Some people will not like what you're saying from the start, go on hearsay and rumours and pre-judge product as something it may not be - as we saw already happen with the Salsa Dos Niner. You're best off just not giving people that opportunity for making their pre-concieved judgements.

I'm glad to hear these guys are a small outfit doing what they can to get this frame out to the market. It looks like a great frame - I just think that they'd be best served finalising their product offering before promoting it, then getting it out to what appears to be an anxious buying public.

Cheers,

Sam

After reading this Kolo...the only thing I can think of that comes to mind is the Santa Cruz Blur.

How many months (or years) was it before those things started shipping? It was really hard to be a shop employee who took an order for one of those and their customers had to wait FOREVER!

"I just think that they'd be best served finalizing their product offering before promoting it, then getting it out to what appears to be an anxious buying public."

The problem is they bought ad space for a full year and people kept nagging "who is Niner bikes" "reveal yourself" etc. They have released the pics of the bikes they are riding to hopefully quench the thirst but obviously now they are only setting themselves up for disaster?

If you look at ads for Thule and Yakima, some of their new product ads hit 6,8,10 months out. They might have an available date of 10/01/05. That's one that comes to mind. Not only does it generate excitement, but also constructive criticism of what the consumer (us) wants to see, which only makes a product better in the long run. Just my .02pesos
Peace, Brett

..."I just think that they'd be best served finalizing their product offering before promoting it, then getting it out to what appears to be an anxious buying public."

The problem is they bought ad space for a full year and people kept nagging "who is Niner bikes" "reveal yourself" etc. They have released the pics of the bikes they are riding to hopefully quench the thirst but obviously now they are only setting themselves up for disaster?

If you look at ads for Thule and Yakima, some of their new product ads hit 6,8,10 months out. They might have an available date of 10/01/05. That's one that comes to mind. Not only does it generate excitement, but also constructive criticism of what the consumer (us) wants to see, which only makes a product better in the long run. Just my .02pesos
Peace, BrettAlso, especially with a new company/product it can be a hard sell to the retailer if they have never heard of it. Advertising/promoting the company gets that buzz going, has potential customers asking their LBS when they are getting it. I would not want to wait until all my product finished and ready to ship before I did anything to let people know about it. Bad business.

The worst exploiters of the "get us excited and then wait till next year for the release" are none other than the major movie studios. They show you a preview in February and at the end it says, "Coming this Fall!"
That always frustrates me, but it plants a seed of anticipation; and if I am looking forward to seeing it (and I believe it exists), then I just wait. And I watch the really good movies I already own while waiting for the new release (read: I ride my current bikes while waiting for the new one). In fact, I have just entered into my latest "waiting game" since I ordered my WaltWorks. Walt is about 3 months out right now- he is slammed with business. Go Walt!

We need to welcome with open arms all the supporters and newcomers to our 29" world.