There's a whole bunch of us heading over to the US from UK, to do riding around parts of Utah and Colorado. One of the stops is at Gunnison, and we're looking for some kind person to guide us around Hartmans Rocks to make the most of all the trails, covering as much of them as possible for an epic days ride. Is there anybody willing to do this for me? We're planning this ride for either 6th/7th of May 2004. I did Hartmans Rocks the same time last year but would like to take full advantage of a local riders knowledge, as im absolutely certain that I missed most of the best trails in the area.

cheers

Mark

There's a whole bunch of us heading over to the US from UK, to do riding around parts of Utah and Colorado. One of the stops is at Gunnison, and we're looking for some kind person to guide us around Hartmans Rocks to make the most of all the trails, covering as much of them as possible for an epic days ride. Is there anybody willing to do this for me? We're planning this ride for either 6th/7th of May 2004. I did Hartmans Rocks the same time last year but would like to take full advantage of a local riders knowledge, as im absolutely certain that I missed most of the best trails in the area.

cheers

Mark

Try sending this request to: Rick Garcia tuneup@westelk.com

These boys are alot of fun and know that area like the back of their hand.

Not sure of what my schedule is going to be like then but would like to join in the fun if I am around. Hartman's Rocks!

There's a whole bunch of us heading over to the US from UK, to do riding around parts of Utah and Colorado. One of the stops is at Gunnison, and we're looking for some kind person to guide us around Hartmans Rocks to make the most of all the trails, covering as much of them as possible for an epic days ride. Is there anybody willing to do this for me? We're planning this ride for either 6th/7th of May 2004. I did Hartmans Rocks the same time last year but would like to take full advantage of a local riders knowledge, as im absolutely certain that I missed most of the best trails in the area.

cheers

Mark

How much money will you pay?

How much money will you pay?

Was working on the basis that some kind local american would be pleased to show a bunch of enthusiastic fellow foreign MTB'ers the delights of Hartman's Rock's as a good will gesture. No money i'm afraid, but nice try.

Was working on the basis that some kind local american would be pleased to show a bunch of enthusiastic fellow foreign MTB'ers the delights of Hartman's Rock's as a good will gesture. No money i'm afraid, but nice try.

That should not be a problem if you follow the lead I gave you, no less so than if a bunch of us wanted to come and invade your hood I would suppose. :) They held the 1st ever XC Ski race in Hartmans a few weekends ago, but it should be primetime when you are there.

Was working on the basis that some kind local american would be pleased to show a bunch of enthusiastic fellow foreign MTB'ers the delights of Hartman's Rock's as a good will gesture. No money i'm afraid, but nice try.

Take a look around at what tour companies charge per person per day. Who in their right mind would volunteer to drag a bunch of people they never met, nor know their skill level around somewhere like Hartman? One of the most interesting parts of your inquiry is the fact that you just popped in out of nowhere and your first post is that request. Sure, the CB dude may show you around, or Rick may even take the time out of his day, but I still find your request rude at best.

while i don't live in gunnison anymore, if i did i would be glad to show you around as would many of kind gunnison folk. J.D. sounds like a prick to me, what ever happened to kindness **shole

J.D. sounds like a prick to me, what ever happened to kindness **shole

It was replaced with profanity by an anonymous front ranger?

Take a look around at what tour companies charge per person per day. Who in their right mind would volunteer to drag a bunch of people they never met, nor know their skill level around somewhere like Hartman? One of the most interesting parts of your inquiry is the fact that you just popped in out of nowhere and your first post is that request. Sure, the CB dude may show you around, or Rick may even take the time out of his day, but I still find your request rude at best.

And you think i'm rude!? So somehow money makes it better you're telling me? I think as far as rudeness is concerned pal, asking about money on your first post is just bare faced cheek.
Not sure how you operate in your country buddy but over here in the UK, the majority of (if not all) guided rides are all based around favours, in the hope that some time in the future it will be returned (and usually is).
In my original request I specified 'some kind person', which clearly isn't you. So why reply to my original post? Bored?
Oh, and where would you have liked me to pop in from? I thought I made it quite clear where we were coming from. So you're obviously stupid too, not a specific request of mine, but thankfully you don't qualify.
Also it's a bit like flying to the moon without a space suit. Based on the fact that we're travelling all the way over from the UK to cycle Utah and Colorado trails, I thought it would it would be safe to assume our fitness levels. Being from the UK and considering the technical nature of our trails, factored in with our unpredictable weather system, I doubt you would be in any position to guide even my dog's dick around Hartman's.
As billybobzia said, you're a (stupid, selfish) prick.
Thanks to everyone else that replied.

And you think i'm rude!? So somehow money makes it better you're telling me? I think as far as rudeness is concerned pal, asking about money on your first post is just bare faced cheek.
Not sure how you operate in your country buddy but over here in the UK, the majority of (if not all) guided rides are all based around favours, in the hope that some time in the future it will be returned (and usually is).
In my original request I specified 'some kind person', which clearly isn't you. So why reply to my original post? Bored?
Oh, and where would you have liked me to pop in from? I thought I made it quite clear where we were coming from. So you're obviously stupid too, not a specific request of mine, but thankfully you don't qualify.
Also it's a bit like flying to the moon without a space suit. Based on the fact that we're travelling all the way over from the UK to cycle Utah and Colorado trails, I thought it would it would be safe to assume our fitness levels. Being from the UK and considering the technical nature of our trails, factored in with our unpredictable weather system, I doubt you would be in any position to guide even my dog's dick around Hartman's.
As billybobzia said, you're a (stupid, selfish) prick.
Thanks to everyone else that replied.

I understand companies charging for guiding, its their job, but comrades in sport, never. I have been in US many times, I stopped counting at 60, and have never had anything other than politeness, courtesy and helpfulness. Last year in Moab a guy drove me 10 miles to start of Porcupine Rim to collect a rental car. He would not accept a cent for it, though offered. I personally guide many people in the UK who ask and have written and posted trail details and maps to people trying to find their way in a new area.
PLEASE lets keep our sport free and friendly. Those that are just interested in the money are welcome to go ahead and work for it. Those that are not prepared to be helpful will get the same in return. JD, I hope you were just having a bad day, it must be hell to live with that attitude all the time.

And you think i'm rude!?

I never said you were rude, just your request.

So somehow money makes it better you're telling me? I think as far as rudeness is concerned pal, asking about money on your first post is just bare faced cheek.

Call it what you will and twist it to justify your needs. That's expected. Go back and look at my post, I never asked for money, just how much you would be willing to pay.

Not sure how you operate in your country buddy but over here in the UK, the majority of (if not all) guided rides are all based around favours, in the hope that some time in the future it will be returned (and usually is).

That makes me wonder how many Coloradans are clamoring to ride in 'Ol Blighty.

In my original request I specified 'some kind person', which clearly isn't you.

So, now you know all about me. What brand crystal ball are you using, or did you pay a gypsy a few shillings to tell you?

So why reply to my original post? Bored?

Some consider mtbr an "online community". I wonder how a barful of drunk Irishmen would do if I walked in as a stranger with ten friends and asked the locals to buy us a few rounds?

Oh, and where would you have liked me to pop in from? I thought I made it quite clear where we were coming from. So you're obviously stupid too, not a specific request of mine, but thankfully you don't qualify.

Could you repeat that last sentence in the Queen's English please?

Also it's a bit like flying to the moon without a space suit. Based on the fact that we're travelling all the way over from the UK to cycle Utah and Colorado trails, I thought it would it would be safe to assume our fitness levels.

Assumptions are for foolish people.

Being from the UK and considering the technical nature of our trails, factored in with our unpredictable weather system, I doubt you would be in any position to guide even my dog's dick around Hartman's. As billybobzia said, you're a (stupid, selfish) prick.

I'm sure your trails are mighty technical, I never indicated they are not. Your namecalling and profanity certainly are an attractive trait. Thanks for showing your true sophmoric colors.

PLEASE lets keep our sport free and friendly. Those that are just interested in the money are welcome to go ahead and work for it. Those that are not prepared to be helpful will get the same in return. JD, I hope you were just having a bad day, it must be hell to live with that attitude all the time.

How do you keep mountain biking free? I'm sure the OP and his pals bought their bicycles and plane tickets.

Your definition of "helpful" seems to be a bit different than mine. Helpful is supporting the communities that build and maintain the trail systems. Why doesn't the OP buy the really cool aerial map of Hartman that was put together by a Gunnison local? If there was a local guide service there, would that money not be going to help the community that supports mountain biking? How about supporting the bike shops that support the trails where you travel to?

Free and friendly don't go together, especially if those who expect a free ride are not supportive of the communities that keep mountain biking alive. They are not being friendly to mountain biking as a whole.

Bad day? Not even close. I had a great ride and found a really cool antique bottle.

Hey Mark:
Don't worry about it, as somebody once put it, J.D. is not a troll (I'm paraphrashing here).

Yea, it's crazy to assume that some local would love to show a bunch of brits around for nada. As you can probably assume, most of us ride purley for the hope that some day we'll meet somebody who is visiting and offer money to show them around. It has nothing to do with meeting new people.

I never said you were rude, just your request..

And how exactly is your opinion supposed to help the situation and my original request?
Surely your time wasted posting pointless and inappropriate replies to messages which simply don't concern you should be spent out riding your bike. Poor time management.


Call it what you will and twist it to justify your needs. That's expected. Go back and look at my post, I never asked for money, just how much you would be willing to pay..

But why? Again wasting your own time, and mine. I told you, no money.


That makes me wonder how many Coloradans are clamoring to ride in 'Ol Blighty.

With an attitude like yours I wouldn't bother clamoring. As for any other friendly Coloradians, (or anyone for that matter) they are more than welcome, free guiding and general hospitality included. I've recently travelled to South Wales, Scotland and Turkey and received free guiding each time without even asking. I've also guided local rides and even taken clubs on unfamiliar guided rides as part of my love of the sport. I really shouldn't be justifying myself to you, but feel you don't even begin to understand what it's all about.


So, now you know all about me. What brand crystal ball are you using, or did you pay a gypsy a few shillings to tell you?

Very poor endeavour at humour, however atleast you're allowing me to get to know you, Jerome.


Some consider mtbr an "online community". I wonder how a barful of drunk Irishmen would do if I walked in as a stranger with ten friends and asked the locals to buy us a few rounds?

Indeed an online community it is. But again you failed to answer my question. Why reply to my earlier posts with tiresome pointless reply when you should be out riding? That is if you do ride. I tell you what. You and some pals can meet us for a meal at the 'Shanghai Garden Restaurant', Horizon Drive, if you like? I'll pay and even get the beers in.


Could you repeat that last sentence in the Queen's English please?

No.


Assumptions are for foolish people.

Either a very weak proverb or a poor attempt at philosophy. Tedious man.


I'm sure your trails are mighty technical, I never indicated they are not. Your namecalling and profanity certainly are an attractive trait. Thanks for showing your true sophmoric colors.

Now this is the best. If you're going to use the Queen's English in an attempt to sound intelligent, atleast spell it (sophmoric) correctly. Sorry if the profanity offended you, but I have to admit that i was still in shock from your general attitude. Either you're going to be helpful or you're not. Assuming (foolish of me I know) that you're not, then please stop wasting my time.

Hey Mark:
Don't worry about it, as somebody once put it, J.D. is not a troll (I'm paraphrashing here).

Yea, it's crazy to assume that some local would love to show a bunch of brits around for nada. As you can probably assume, most of us ride purley for the hope that some day we'll meet somebody who is visiting and offer money to show them around. It has nothing to do with meeting new people.


Cheers Skinny-Tire, my sentiments exactly.

I'd feel quite proud to show fellow foreign MTB'ers around my favourite trails, local or not.

That should not be a problem if you follow the lead I gave you, no less so than if a bunch of us wanted to come and invade your hood I would suppose. :) They held the 1st ever XC Ski race in Hartmans a few weekends ago, but it should be primetime when you are there.

Thanks for that Bigwheel. Always amazes the seasonal changes that you get over there in the Rockies.
I'll be mailing Rick later this week.

cheers

Mark

Mark - if only you knew how truly funny your comments and responses are. I reckon we'll be able to hear the laughter all the way from Grand Junction in a few hours.

Are you related to Dave Hinde BTW?

Best of luck.

Mark - if only you knew how truly funny your comments and responses are. I reckon we'll be able to hear the laughter all the way from Grand Junction in a few hours.

Are you related to Dave Hinde BTW?

Best of luck.

Cheers Seb

I know exactly how funny it may read. I've even considered saving and posting on singletrackworld for a Friday funny.

Not related to Dave Hinde in anyway and not even sure i'd have the balls to admit even if I was.

Nice one.

Mark

Cheers Seb

I know exactly how funny it may read. I've even considered saving and posting on singletrackworld for a Friday funny.

Not related to Dave Hinde in anyway and not even sure i'd have the balls to admit even if I was.

Nice one.

Mark

Errr ... yeah. Not sure I'd recommend sharing it too widely.

Errr ... yeah. Not sure I'd recommend sharing it too widely.

Oh




.

Errr ... yeah. Not sure I'd recommend sharing it too widely.

I would, there is a certain comradery around Mtn. Biking that some get and others exploit.

The touring companies that have permits to guide on Government property here in the states charge fare for their services because of permit and other overhead costs. There are several to choose from, none of which to my knowledge even list Hartmans on their schedule. I did run into a local guide service last fall out there that was taking a group of school kids around however, under a guide permit. I am sure they were charging $$. As they had every right to as a licensed guide service that the school had contacted and then contracted their services. I hope you are getting my point.

How a request that went unanswered for 5 days by some bikers to some fellow bikers on an online community board with such a simple a request has turned into trollathon, I don't know. :confused:

I would, there is a certain comradery around Mtn. Biking that some get and others exploit.

The touring companies that have permits to guide on Government property here in the states charge fare for their services because of permit and other overhead costs. There are several to choose from, none of which to my knowledge even list Hartmans on their schedule. I did run into a local guide service last fall out there that was taking a group of school kids around however, under a guide permit. I am sure they were charging $$. As they had every right to as a licensed guide service that the school had contacted and then contracted their services. I hope you are getting my point.

How a request that went unanswered for 5 days by some bikers to some fellow bikers on an online community board with such a simple a request has turned into trollathon, I don't know. :confused:

Hmmm. You think that this is a trollathon, but you think Mark should post it to another forum where there are a bunch of clueless idiots even less well-appraised of the facts. Okay!

Sorry - while I applaud your efforts to help, which surely must be enough for Mark to go on, I'm afraid you clearly have no idea what I was referring to. That is how these threads get confusing in the first place.

Maybe the new forum format is to blame and you didn't mean to respond to me specifically.

[QUOTE=scorcher seb]Mark - if only you knew how truly funny your comments and responses are. I reckon we'll be able to hear the laughter all the way from Grand Junction in a few hours.
QUOTE]

As a matter of fact I do have a clear idea of what you were referring to. There is certainly no laughter coming out of Gunnison in regards to Marks comments and responses. But I do feel a certain sadness about JD's, who neither lives in Gunnison Co., nor is licensed to guide in the Hartmans area to begin with. :(

There are requests all the time by people traveling about to try and hook up with like minded locals on all the boards, why was Marks any different and why does it warrant this type of coverage? Perhaps it has developed into a show of diplomacy that should be aired to prevent further episodes from occuring?

[QUOTE=scorcher seb]Mark - if only you knew how truly funny your comments and responses are. I reckon we'll be able to hear the laughter all the way from Grand Junction in a few hours.
QUOTE]

As a matter of fact I do have a clear idea of what you were referring to. There is certainly no laughter coming out of Gunnison in regards to Marks comments and responses. But I do feel a certain sadness about JD's, who neither lives in Gunnison Co., nor is licensed to guide in the Hartmans area to begin with. :(

There are requests all the time by people traveling about to try and hook up with like minded locals on all the boards, why was Marks any different and why does it warrant this type of coverage? Perhaps it has developed into a show of diplomacy that should be aired to prevent further episodes from occuring?

Well, I'm really sorry - but you have again proved that you have no idea what I was referring to. Of course, now you're replying to a different response anyway, so maybe you're just getting more confused than before.

Like I said before, it is that sort of confusion - both on your part and on Mark's that resulted in this becoming "a trollathon." You don't seem to mind that though. Carry on for all I care.

But I do feel a certain sadness about JD's, who neither lives in Gunnison Co., nor is licensed to guide in the Hartmans area to begin with.

I never claimed to live in Gunnison County.

I never volunteered any guiding services.

I never even claimed to know the Hartman area well enough to guide there.

I only asked what he would pay, wondering how much he and his pals would be willing to put back into the community they plan on "using". This was an especially burning question since he obviously had not put anything into this measly online "community" to begin with.

How good for CB's Summer season do you think it would be if every mountain biker who came to visit didn't spend any money, not even on a map at the Alpineer? What if they all decided to camp for free in the forest, fully supplied and using free information/maps/guide from the internet? Those people do not support mountain biking, by not supporting the mountain biking communities they are "using". What was that 70's elementary school saying about drugs, "Users Are Losers"?

It's your prerogative to feel sadness for me or my feelings on this issue, but feel more sadness for the lack of support our communities get from those who choose to keep mountain biking "free".

Very poor endeavour at humour, however atleast you're allowing me to get to know you, Jerome.

You and some pals can meet us for a meal at the 'Shanghai Garden Restaurant', Horizon Drive, if you like? I'll pay and even get the beers in.
.

Should I be scared, or impressed that you know how to use a search engine? Neither, so sorry, Charlie.

the only real problem with hartmans is that it can be very, and i mean very, easy to get lost. there is one pretty good map, yes made by a gunny local, actually an old roomate of mine, that would be hepful. it would be great to have someone with you and the map with you for the first ride to get your bearings right. when will you be there again? there are many trails not on the map, either new or blm didn't want them on the map. it is, in my opinion, the most underrated place to ride in the U.S. but you have to know where you are going. i spent 10 great years in gunny and miss hartmans most of all. also, if dry check out dr park, up around almont, one of my favorites.
the map like i said is decent, but you still don't know which way to ride trails (alot can be both ways) or the unidentified ones.
if it so happens that i am there at that time, would be glad to show you around, but you might have to wait for my slow *ss. cheers

How good for CB's Summer season do you think it would be if every mountain biker who came to visit didn't spend any money, not even on a map at the Alpineer? What if they all decided to camp for free in the forest, fully supplied and using free information/maps/guide from the internet? Those people do not support mountain biking, by not supporting the mountain biking communities they are "using". What was that 70's elementary school saying about drugs, "Users Are Losers"?

It's your prerogative to feel sadness for me or my feelings on this issue, but feel more sadness for the lack of support our communities get from those who choose to keep mountain biking "free".
Did I miss something? Since when does asking somebody to show them around constitute camping for free, fully supplied and using free info? Talk about taking it to extremes (you da man). Even so, what if Mark spent his last penny on his plane ticket to fulfill some sort of dying wish? So, if he's penniless, he's not allowed to enjoy the trails? Since when does spending money equate to supporting community (didn't you make some jackass claim that if didn't do trail maintenance--which costs zero money to do--anything was secondary and you shouldn't call yourself a true mt biker)?

JD, the hypocrasy that you spew is almost laughable (except for the fact that I almost think you're being serious).

the only real problem with hartmans is that it can be very, and i mean very, easy to get lost. there is one pretty good map, yes made by a gunny local, actually an old roomate of mine, that would be hepful. it would be great to have someone with you and the map with you for the first ride to get your bearings right. when will you be there again? there are many trails not on the map, either new or blm didn't want them on the map. it is, in my opinion, the most underrated place to ride in the U.S. but you have to know where you are going. i spent 10 great years in gunny and miss hartmans most of all. also, if dry check out dr park, up around almont, one of my favorites.
the map like i said is decent, but you still don't know which way to ride trails (alot can be both ways) or the unidentified ones.
if it so happens that i am there at that time, would be glad to show you around, but you might have to wait for my slow *ss. cheers

Well, if he's coming from the UK he shouldn't have a problem negotiating the map for Hartmans. Any idiot with a map could find their way around there with no trouble - as long as they had some previous map-reading experience. The map is also very informative about which way to ride certain trails, and I'm sure a few minutes spent with the guys in The Tune-Up would help formulate a good route. I've managed some great rides round there armed only with the map, some common sense, and a desire for adventure. Never felt the need to have someone holding my hand. In fact, you'd have to be trying really hard not to have a good ride around there. I agree with you, it is a great place to ride.


As for Fat-Tyre's post, it is possibly the most ludicrous and nonsensical post I have ever read on MTBR, but quite possibly one of the funniest.

As for Fat-Tyre's post, it is possibly the most ludicrous and nonsensical post I have ever read on MTBR, but quite possibly one of the funniest.

After yours maybe. "I've managed some great rides round there armed only with the map, some common sense, and a desire for adventure. Never felt the need to have someone holding my hand." BTW what is it with the Brit fetish for hand holding?

The Hartmans map pretty much is a non sequitur actually for a flow ride there. There are many trails and spurs that are not on the map and the "number" system it relates to on the little posts are getting trashed without replacement. I guess I am a slow learner but I have been riding Hartmans for over 10 yrs and still don't know all its secrets.

I have never had a bad time riding there either, but every time I ride there in a group it is pretty much left up to one rider to choose the route and everyone else just follows. Sound simple? It is. Fun too. Until you are in a group where everyone has the map and an opinion, then it can get testy.

In fact I am going to do my damndest to make sure that bunch o' brits has the time of their lives when they come to town. I'll hook them up with the man who made most of the trails in there and is perhaps one of the nicest people you will never get a chance to meet to boot.

So Mark go ahead and email me @ bigwheel_29 at hot mail dot com and we'll make sure you get the kings treatment, on the house of course. ;)

BTW what is it with the Brit fetish for hand holding?




I don't know. Please explain. Who do you think is the Brit?

More amusing confusion at your end, I suspect.

scorcher
not to diminish your map reading skills, but i can guarantee you have not fully experienced hartmans - the map doesn't do it justice intentionally. many of the good ones are left off by request of the blm. that being said, of course you can still have a great time, but don't think you have seen it all

I don't know. Please explain. Who do you think is the Brit?

More amusing confusion at your end, I suspect.

Someone that lists their home as London, UK and calls themself "wibbles" qualifies don't you think?

You peteophiles crack me up. Uh, carry on.

Should I be scared, or impressed that you know how to use a search engine? Neither, so sorry, Charlie.

Just a simple invitation to share a meal and some beer with comrades in sport and I won't even ask you for money.

Well, I'm really sorry - but you have again proved that you have no idea what I was referring to. Of course, now you're replying to a different response anyway, so maybe you're just getting more confused than before.

Like I said before, it is that sort of confusion - both on your part and on Mark's that resulted in this becoming "a trollathon." You don't seem to mind that though. Carry on for all I care.

No confusion Seb. 'bunch of clueless idiots' - quite clearly.

scorcher
not to diminish your map reading skills, but i can guarantee you have not fully experienced hartmans - the map doesn't do it justice intentionally. many of the good ones are left off by request of the blm. that being said, of course you can still have a great time, but don't think you have seen it all


I can guarantee that myself! That's one of the things I like about it - trying to figure out the original lines over the rocks and avoid all the cheater lines, and just explore.

But I reiterate - any idiot could avoid getting lost there armed with the map and some common sense. And I'm sure Mark has the map-reading skills if he is coming from the UK.

Someone that lists their home as London, UK and calls themself "wibbles" qualifies don't you think?




I don't know. I imagine UK citizenship requirements are a little more complicated than that.

I hope Mark wasn't offended by your childish jibe about hand-holding Brits.

Sorry mate, you missed the point completely.

Just a simple invitation to share a meal and some beer with comrades in sport and I won't even ask you for money.

Don't hold your breath and make sure the "meat" there doesn't meow .