Help me create a list of SUV/wagon crossover vehicles that have 7 passenger potential.

We've had a Ford Windstar lately and want to get away from the mini van now and we've already been the full-sized SUV route (Expedition). We want to go with something smaller now that my son has left for college and the family can fit something smaller but my wife still wants the 7 passenger potential "just in case" you need that extra room for friends, soccer teams etc. Whatever. :rolleyes: She wants to be able to slide in like the minivan (no climbing down or up too much to get in. I want some degree of snow and limited off-road worthiness, sportiness, and ,of course, bike hauler capability (Inside preferably, but rackable as well).

Anyway here's my list of vehicles that come to mind in no particular order. I'm sure it's incomplete. Looking to stay under $50K

Ford Freestlye: My dad just got one. Not a bad car. A little gutless
Chrysler Pacifica: A little porky looking.
Volvo XC 90: I like. The V8 versions over 50K
Chevy/GMC Trailblazer/Envoy: Not a big fan of GM products, but these seem popular.
Dodge Durango: Almost getting back to the full-size SUV again. The Hemi calls to me.
VW Toureg: I think they have a stretched version that will accommodate a third seat now.
Audi All-Road Quatro: not sure about availability of third row seat... maybe a bit out of the price range.
Subaru Outback XT... no third row seat, but I really want this one on the list. Maybe we can strap the extra friends and teammates on the rack.
Jeep Grand Cherokee: '05 re-styleing looks like the old Cherokee to me. Hemi :D


We're going shopping this weekend. Anything else I should consider. Thanks.

Honda Pilot

Not "exciting" but it does meet most of your criteria. Price isn't bad, 7/8 passenger capability, decent ground clearance and AWD.

My .02

SN

Help me create a list of SUV/wagon crossover vehicles that have 7 passenger potential.

We've had a Ford Windstar lately and want to get away from the mini van now and we've already been the full-sized SUV route (Expedition). We want to go with something smaller now that my son has left for college and the family can fit something smaller but my wife still wants the 7 passenger potential "just in case" you need that extra room for friends, soccer teams etc. Whatever. :rolleyes: She wants to be able to slide in like the minivan (no climbing down or up too much to get in. I want some degree of snow and limited off-road worthiness, sportiness, and ,of course, bike hauler capability (Inside preferably, but rackable as well).

Anyway here's my list of vehicles that come to mind in no particular order. I'm sure it's incomplete. Looking to stay under $50K

Ford Freestlye: My dad just got one. Not a bad car. A little gutless
Chrysler Pacifica: A little porky looking.
Volvo XC 90: I like. The V8 versions over 50K
Chevy/GMC Trailblazer/Envoy: Not a big fan of GM products, but these seem popular.
Dodge Durango: Almost getting back to the full-size SUV again. The Hemi calls to me.
VW Toureg: I think they have a stretched version that will accommodate a third seat now.
Audi All-Road Quatro: not sure about availability of third row seat... maybe a bit out of the price range.
Subaru Outback XT... no third row seat, but I really want this one on the list. Maybe we can strap the extra friends and teammates on the rack.
Jeep Grand Cherokee: '05 re-styleing looks like the old Cherokee to me. Hemi :D


We're going shopping this weekend. Anything else I should consider. Thanks.

The Audi All Road retails for $48,000.00 new and in the mid 30's used. Doesn't come w/ 3rd row.

I'm looking at a Volvo XC70. No third row but the price is more in line with what I want to spend for a car.

No Chrystler products for me.

toyota highlander and 4 runners come with 3rd seat as an option....this list is helpful, but way out of my price range, we just got a 05 honda odyssey, real nice (i don't drive it much, its my wife's)...and very fast, kept up with a porsche cayenne go up to the eisenhower (sp) tunnel last week...

Honda Pilot

Not "exciting" but it does meet most of your criteria. Price isn't bad, 7/8 passenger capability, decent ground clearance and AWD.

My .02

SN

Good call, Scott. Yeah, this one was admittedly off my radar screen. Of course after I read your response I went down to watch the AFC divisional playoff game which was sponsered by the Honda Pilot (Alright, Steelers Win!). The reviews look exceptional. Kinda blase' styling, but it has good power, car like handling, and great utility. It might be hard to find one though, and I won't be seeing any discount off MSRP.

Definitely added to the list.

"and very fast, kept up with a porsche cayenne go up to the eisenhower (sp) tunnel last week...[/QUOTE]

I guess the cayenne driver forgot to press the gas pedal?

Go for a used Toyota Land Cruiser. It can be bought for under $30K used and will out last every vehicle listed with ease.

"and very fast, kept up with a porsche cayenne go up to the eisenhower (sp) tunnel last week...

I guess the cayenne driver forgot to press the gas pedal?

actually the porsche was using every lane to pass everybody and my wife wanted to know what kind of car it was...sure maybe it wasn't going all out, but it was definately not taking it easy...hop in an odyssey some day, they haul ass...very suprising to me as well..

I guess the cayenne driver forgot to press the gas pedal?

actually the porsche was using every lane to pass everybody and my wife wanted to know what kind of car it was...sure maybe it wasn't going all out, but it was definately not taking it easy...hop in an odyssey some day, they haul ass...very suprising to me as well..

Hahahahah, the Cayenne would own your minivan any day.

-TS

Go for a used Toyota Land Cruiser. It can be bought for under $30K used and will out last every vehicle listed with ease.

I guess what I forgot to say is, that I wanted a rackable sport sedan (BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Infiniti G35) with all wheel drive. My wife would've been happy with another minivan.... A sporty crossover vehicle is the compromise.

The Land Cruiser seems to have its devoted followers, but it doesn't meet my criteria. I want a new vehicle and the price is out of the specified range ($55-70K) new. It's ugly, not sporty on the street at all (see driving impression below), and is pretty much a full sized SUV. If outright off-road ability and utility where on my list, and I didn't care how it looked.... I might look at the LC. But then I might look at a HumVee (not H2) as well. ;)


Besides, I don't exactly want a car to last more than five years. I get tired of them.





The Land Cruiser's road manners are still decidedly truck-like. The steering feel is heavy and the ride, though dampened a great deal, is still stiff. The Land Cruiser's high center of gravity also makes it less desirable to toss into turns, and the 18-inch tires do make a fair amount of noise. The Land Cruiser's 4.7-liter V8 engine has terrific gobs of low-end torque, most of it available well below the 1500-rpm range. With so much torque available right away, you'll find that the Land Cruiser has no problem pulling away from a dead stop or towing heavy loads such as a boat or horse trailer.

When the time comes to go off-road, you'll find that the Land Cruiser has very few limits. Whether it's unplowed roads or unpaved trails, the Land Cruiser's adept four-wheel-drive layout can muscle through most obstacles without even breaking a sweat. The secret to the Land Cruiser's off-road success is a collection of hardware that includes a full-time four-wheel-drive system, a locking center differential, an advanced traction control system, vehicle skid control (VSC) and an all-new five-speed automatic transmission for better power management and fuel economy.

Hahahahah, the Cayenne would own your minivan any day.

-TS

duh. my point being that the odyssey, for a minivan, is very fast..its nice to be able to go up mountain passes at 80 mph...

Go for a used Toyota Land Cruiser. It can be bought for under $30K used and will out last every vehicle listed with ease.

I've owned several LCs over the years. Despite their reputation, entropy never sleeps, never blinks. Everything breaks. And one thing you never want to do in this life is be on the receiving end of the bill for a front end rebuild on an FJ 80. Plus the gas mileage will absolutely kill you. Couple that poor gas mileage with a relatively paltry gas tank (~19 gallons) and your road trips will be veritable Tours de Gas Stationneaux.

"and very fast, kept up with a porsche cayenne go up to the eisenhower (sp) tunnel last week..."

I guess the cayenne driver forgot to press the gas pedal?


Hey Scott, maybe it was the soccer mom driving that purple Cayenne we saw yesterday.

I was going to suggest a Mazda6 wagon, but it's FWD and seats five.

Here are a couple of other possibilities:
Ford Explorer
Volvo XC70 - if you're considering the Subaru, this would be similar
Saab 97x - hey, it's the same as the GM Trailblazer/Envoy crap, but it looks cooler.
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Trailblazer

This might be an isolated incident, but I know a woman with a new Durango. It's less than three months old, and has become prone to not starting lately...I think it's done it three times so far in the past month. I'd stay away from Chrysler products, too.

BTW...the Chrysler Pacifica doesn't look porky, it is porky.

and LC in the 90's or 00's, not the the Old stuff. Allthought I will say my cousins FJ has held up with no maint other than oil very well for years and years.

The 90's and above V8 models are really nice, and drive very, very well on the road. Fuel economy is poor yes, but people tossing cars every 3-5 years are losing so much on resale it would more than even out cost wise if you acutally kept the LC.




I've owned several LCs over the years. Despite their reputation, entropy never sleeps, never blinks. Everything breaks. And one thing you never want to do in this life is be on the receiving end of the bill for a front end rebuild on an FJ 80. Plus the gas mileage will absolutely kill you. Couple that poor gas mileage with a relatively paltry gas tank (~19 gallons) and your road trips will be veritable Tours de Gas Stationneaux.

Ford Freestlye: My dad just got one. Not a bad car. A little gutless
Chrysler Pacifica: A little porky looking.
Volvo XC 90: I like. The V8 versions over 50K
Chevy/GMC Trailblazer/Envoy: Not a big fan of GM products, but these seem popular.
Dodge Durango: Almost getting back to the full-size SUV again. The Hemi calls to me.
VW Toureg: I think they have a stretched version that will accommodate a third seat now.
Audi All-Road Quatro: not sure about availability of third row seat... maybe a bit out of the price range.
Subaru Outback XT... no third row seat, but I really want this one on the list. Maybe we can strap the extra friends and teammates on the rack.
Jeep Grand Cherokee: '05 re-styleing looks like the old Cherokee to me. Hemi :D


We're going shopping this weekend. Anything else I should consider. Thanks.[/QUOTE]




I have a dodge durango, you can get a used one cheap, but you get what you pay for...Of course with three kids its nice to have a car that you don't care about...
volvo xc70's used to have an available rear facing 3rd row.
the audi a6's also have an available rear facing 3rd row.

Subaru is coming out with a 7 passenger vehicle supposedly this fall....go to the sub website and look at the new stuff section, no real pics yet, but some basic info...this is what i'm holding out for...

the new honda odyssey and the toyota sienna both have all wheel drive as an option.

Subaru is coming out with a 7 passenger vehicle supposedly this fall....go to the sub website and look at the new stuff section, no real pics yet, but some basic info...this is what i'm holding out for...

There are some pictures of it, I find it somewhat scary. The interior is gorgeous, though.

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-11166-221181-1795/101493.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/files/weekart/2005/0103/subarub9rear.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/files/weekart/2005/0103/subarub9side.jpg

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-11166-227056-2536/becainside.jpg

i think you want a 4x4 van.

and LC in the 90's or 00's, not the the Old stuff. Allthought I will say my cousins FJ has held up with no maint other than oil very well for years and years.

The 90's and above V8 models are really nice, and drive very, very well on the road. Fuel economy is poor yes, but people tossing cars every 3-5 years are losing so much on resale it would more than even out cost wise if you acutally kept the LC.

You seem to know a lot about landcruisers. Look up the model year designations for the fj-80 sometime.

V8 models....

I do agree about your gas comments, but as for stuff breaking I think your very, very wrong, unless of course your talking about a LC with over 300K on it.




You seem to know a lot about landcruisers. Look up the model year designations for the fj-80 sometime.

1/2 Alfa Romeo and half BMW X5.

Who's making this for them? Seems kinda Infinityish.



There are some pictures of it, I find it somewhat scary. The interior is gorgeous, though.

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-11166-221181-1795/101493.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/files/weekart/2005/0103/subarub9rear.jpg

http://www.autoweek.com/files/weekart/2005/0103/subarub9side.jpg

http://forums.autoweek.com/servlet/JiveServlet/download/31-11166-227056-2536/becainside.jpg

1/2 Alfa Romeo and half BMW X5.

Who's making this for them? Seems kinda Infinityish.

I thought they were...it's their new styling direction, supposedly. Better hurry and get the pretty ones while you can!

I agree with the Alfa influence, esp the grille and upper half of the rear, with the taillights. Kinda looks BMW 1-series-ish too in back. The C-pillar looks like it came from a Nissan Murano.

But overall, I think it's just weird.

I was going to suggest a Mazda6 wagon, but it's FWD and seats five.

Here are a couple of other possibilities:
Ford Explorer
Volvo XC70 - if you're considering the Subaru, this would be similar
Saab 97x - hey, it's the same as the GM Trailblazer/Envoy crap, but it looks cooler.
Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Trailblazer

BTW...the Chrysler Pacifica doesn't look porky, it is porky.

LOL. Yes, but at least it's under-powered. Now if they put the Hemi in the Pacifica and trimmed it down to look more like the concept it was based on, then they'd have something.

Oh, btw, it's Daimler-Chysler now so all those reliability issues are all taken care of. ;)

AS for your other suggestions:
I don't like the Exploder. Besides, it doesn't have the third row seat.
My wife thinks the XC70 is ugly.
The Saab 9-7x sounds interesting. I think GM sells that same vehicle relabled through on of its other companies too....My brother-in-law just bought one.
The 4Runner has been added to the list.


There's a couple of really cool sport wagons I'd consider if I could get the wife off the 7 passenger requirement like the Mazda 6 wagon you suggested, the A4Avant (or A6Avant), Pontiac Vibe, Saab 9-2x Aero, Toyota Matrix, Outback XT turbo, WRX wagon, etc..

Subaru is coming out with a 7 passenger vehicle supposedly this fall.....

That sounded interesting until I saw the pics Girchy Girchy posted. It does look like a stretched out Murano with an Alfa Romeo nose.

I just looked up the 9-7x on the Saab site. It won't be out until spring, but it looks pretty cool. It may be based on the chevy trailblazer, but they gave it a 300 hp V8 and a bit sexier skin.

Oh, oh. Here's another one i forgot about, although it kinda pushes the price window a bit in the V8 version and I never fell in love with its looks. It did whup up on the X5, XC90, and Mercedes ML430 in a comparison Car and Driver did a while back iirc.

i second the odyssey. it will drop most cars off the line and can get 4 people, bikes and gear withought taking off wheels or limbs. and comparatively its handling is more car like than any other, even for it being the heaviest van on the market. the new ones also have a 5sp tranny and something like 240hp.

Honda Pilot or Acura MDX should make the short list. Lots of room, decent milage, reliable and the best resale. My wife has an 02' MDX Touring and it has been problem free and is worth just a few grand than what we paid for it new. I suspect it will be the lowest cost of ownership of any vehicle we have ever owned.

If resale and reliability mean anything, throw out the Ford, Chrysler, Volvo, Jeep and Chevy.

Ford Econoline E-350, available w/ 4x4 I think. It'll easily seat 7 and all the bikes too.

"and very fast, kept up with a porsche cayenne go up to the eisenhower (sp) tunnel last week...

I guess the cayenne driver forgot to press the gas pedal?

Go for a used Toyota Land Cruiser. It can be bought for under $30K used and will out last every vehicle listed with ease.[/QUOTE]

Acually the V6 Highlander is suprisingly fast. You wouldn't believe it until you drive one, but when you lay it down the thing will take off. It's the fastest SUV I've ever driven for sure. I've never driven a Chayenne so I can't really compare the two.

i second the odyssey. it will drop most cars off the line and can get 4 people, bikes and gear withought taking off wheels or limbs. and comparatively its handling is more car like than any other, even for it being the heaviest van on the market. the new ones also have a 5sp tranny and something like 240hp.

thanks for backing me on the odyssey, getting bashed by everyone (even though they probably have never driven one)...the new ones have 255 hp...

thanks for backing me on the odyssey, getting bashed by everyone (even though they probably have never driven one)...the new ones have 255 hp...

It's easy to keep up with the fastest cars on I-70 when they're all stoped by the traffic.


(This comment is in no way supposed to define the quickness or slowness of any car or driver, but instead comment on the super crappy traffic situation).

i second the odyssey. it will drop most cars off the line and can get 4 people, bikes and gear withought taking off wheels or limbs. and comparatively its handling is more car like than any other, even for it being the heaviest van on the market. the new ones also have a 5sp tranny and something like 240hp.

If we were going back to a minivan, I'd seriously consider the Odyssey. They look good, get rave reviews, and have good power.


minivan= not on the list of search criteria.

the only problem i see is most of the vehicles you are looking at are not the kind you slide into the third seat, let us know what you get and what you look at....

Honda Pilot.

Added. I don't think the MDX offers 7 passenger seating and the Pilot is essentially the same vehicle for thousands less.

If resale and reliability mean anything, throw out the Ford, Chrysler, Volvo, Jeep and Chevy

I've personally never had any reliability issues with the Ford products I've owned (windstar, expedition, F-150, 'nuther windstar). Not even little things.

Not to question your handle, but shouldn't it be "Mozart"? Do you race shifter carts? I would love to try that some time. It looks like a riot. Those indoor racing go-karts look fun too.

Added. I don't think the MDX offers 7 passenger seating and the Pilot is essentially the same vehicle for thousands less.



I've personally never had any reliability issues with the Ford products I've owned (windstar expedition, F-150, 'nuther windstar). Not even little things.

Not to question your handle, but shouldn't it be "Mozart"? Do you race shifter carts? I would love to try that some time. It looks like a riot. Those indoor racing go-karts look fun too.

wondered that myself, or is it that you chose it from "blinded by the light", making you a springsteen fan??

the only problem i see is most of the vehicles you are looking at are not the kind you slide into the third seat, let us know what you get and what you look at....

I'd never be sliding into the third row seat myself,,,, so what do I care? :D In fact, we won't need it most of the time. Mrs. KRob just wants the option for the extra utility "in case" the kids have friends along or when we go pick up the boys from college or whatever. Like I said before..." :rolleyes: " Let me have my 'druthers and the list would be somewhat different. (M5!!! :D)

Ford Econoline E-350, available w/ 4x4 I think. It'll easily seat 7 and all the bikes too.

Mucho utility there for sure..... but you haven't been reading the search criteria (unless, of course, your comment was offered tonge-in-cheek ;) ).

Ford Econoline E-350 = does not compute.

1/2 Alfa Romeo and half BMW X5.

Who's making this for them? Seems kinda Infinityish.
Is half Alfa Romeo a nice way of saying Edsel?

It might be hard to find one though, and I won't be seeing any discount off MSRP.

Definitely added to the list. My Forester was showing it's age, so I was in the same situation as you two weeks ago, and the Pilot on the top of the list to replace it. We test drove it, and while not at all exciting, it was plush with plenty of power, at least coming off of a 2000 Subaru Forester. It met our criteria of 7 passenger, not horrible gas mileage with good road manners. I didn't end up with one, but they were offering excellent incentives, 2.9 apr, and fleet pricing ($27K and some change for the leather/sunroof, no DVD/GPS trim package).

In the end we decided it was just too big for the three of us (planning a fourth soon) and picked up a CRV SE with a much nicer "Honey, can I quit my job and work at the bike shop this summer?" payment. It seems better built than the Subaru, which I would have a hard time recommending to anyone.

Oh, oh. Here's another one i forgot about, although it kinda pushes the price window a bit in the V8 version and I never fell in love with its looks. It did whup up on the X5, XC90, and Mercedes ML430 in a comparison Car and Driver did a while back iirc.


For an SUV, I think this is the coolest looking machine out there. Definately no "me too" styling there. May be my next if I find the right "used" one out there a year or 2 from now.
Greg

Oh, btw, it's Daimler-Chysler now so all those reliability issues are all taken care of. ;)

Ha! Maybe 'compounded' is a better choice than 'taken care of.'

It will seat six comfortably and goes great in the snow (got 6 inches last night). Looks cool too. :D
2003 F150 Supercrew FX4
http://gallery.mtbr.com/data/mtbr/500/234916truck2.jpg

It will seat six comfortably and goes great in the snow (got 6 inches last night). Looks cool too. :D
2003 F150 Supercrew FX4
http://gallery.mtbr.com/data/mtbr/500/234916truck2.jpg

There ya go! Maybe it's time to trade in my 97 F150 for a new Supercrew. My kids hate riding very far in the back of my extended cab. Sell the van and just let my wife drive her beetle.

Mucho utility there for sure..... but you haven't been reading the search criteria (unless, of course, your comment was offered tonge-in-cheek ;) ).

Ford Econoline E-350 = does not compute.

Criteria #1 = <$50. After that, form follows function.

Criteria #1 = <$50. After that, form follows function.

No, he mentioned that he wanted a smaller vehicle that's easy to get into, and somewhat sporty. Any 4x4 converted E-Series (Ford doesn't make them, but other companies such as Quigley convert them to 4WD) will be very tall and large, and about as un-sporty as you can get. Plus, the conversion is $9,000.

Something more sensible than that is a new Dodge Sprinter...yeehaw! Decent mileage, a ton of room, and a torquey little diesel.

http://www.dodge.com/nav/photo/sprinter_10_main.jpg

OUTBACK XT OUTBACK XT OUTBACK XT OUTBACK XT

Come on man, it's faster than the WRX 0-60 on account of more torque and lower gearing.

OUTBACK XT OUTBACK XT OUTBACK XT OUTBACK XT

Come on man, it's faster than the WRX 0-60 on account of more torque and lower gearing.

Yeah man. It would be at the top of my list if I could get her off the 7 passenger thing. Tell them to find their own ride, dammit.

Maybe you can suggest to her that you should be basing your choice on the space you need 98% of the time. Then, if you really need the 7 passenger space, you can always rent whatever fits best when you need it.

Maybe then you can work in some of the other options ;)

Maybe you can suggest to her that you should be basing your choice on the space you need 98% of the time. Then, if you really need the 7 passenger space, you can always rent whatever fits best when you need it.

Maybe then you can work in some of the other options ;)

Yeah, just toss the extra couple of kids in the back.

Hey, I've fit 7 in my '85 Caprice before. They swore it wasn't too cramped in the back seat.

Yeah, just toss the extra couple of kids in the back.

Hey, I've fit 7 in my '85 Caprice before. They swore it wasn't too cramped in the back seat.

LOL. Or like I said. Just strap them on the roof.

I drove a '78 Impala Wagon all through graduate school. It had 350,000 miles on it when the cam lobes finally went flat. The ultimate sport/crossover/suv!

Added. I don't think the MDX offers 7 passenger seating and the Pilot is essentially the same vehicle for thousands less.

I've personally never had any reliability issues with the Ford products I've owned (windstar, expedition, F-150, 'nuther windstar). Not even little things.

Not to question your handle, but shouldn't it be "Mozart"? Do you race shifter carts? I would love to try that some time. It looks like a riot. Those indoor racing go-karts look fun too.

MDX and Pilot have the same seating set-up (seven passengers), but I don't blame you. I would have bought the Honda too had I not been able to buy the MDX at cost.

It's great you have had such great luck with Fords, but statistically they are at the bottom of the car reliability wood pile. Not an opinion, just a fact.

Yea, the Motzart should be Mozart, but thats good ole' East Tennessee spelling for ya. I didn't catch it until I had already used the handle for about 50 posts. I have driven a shifter cart. They are mucho fun. If there was a track around here I'd have a mountainbike for sale.

Go give the Pilot a good look. I think you will dig it. Good luck.

LOL. Or like I said. Just strap them on the roof.

I drove a '78 Impala Wagon all through graduate school. It had 350,000 miles on it when the cam lobes finally went flat. The ultimate sport/crossover/suv!

Impressive! Mine only has 51k miles on it so far...it was a granny car. We used to have a '77 Impala, but sold it at the 130,000 mile mark, it was nickel-and-diming us to death. We saw it driving around town for a long time after that, with a "Jesus is my co-pilot" plate tied to the grille.

Parents bought a '94 Aerostar after that, now that's been a bulletproof piece of work. Crude, but dependable and sturdy.

I did a lot of research and found the Nissan Pathfinder did the best job for me. First, my wife needed 7 seats, she got it. I needed it to pull a 4500 lbs trailer, and I got that too.

270 ponies!

The 2005 Pathfinder is all new in design and quite well packaged.

All I can really say is I put the money down and brought it home, so I am sold on it.

Good luck

The new Nissan Pathfinder seats 7 and has:
270 HP V6 with loads of torque - 15 mpg city, 21 mpg highway
a stability system
5 speed automatic with overdrive (woulda perferred the new Xterra's 6 speed manual)
4 wheel independent suspension
4 wheel drive has a low range (unlike car-based utes)
6000 pound towing capacity and standard hitch receiver
4 wheel limited slip and 4 wheel antilock discs standard.

It drives more like a sports car than any off-road capable SUV I've driven, very firmly sprung with minimal roll in corners. I took it up in the snow and couldn't get it stuck in 10-12 inches of powder. The stability system is very cool. I compared 90 degree turns on slick snowpack at 15-20 mph with and without it, and the difference is amazing.

On the downside, Yakima doesn't have fit information for the rack yet. The standard roof rails are very tall and narrow, so I'm not sure how I'm going to transfer over my Yakima rack, but I can use my hitch mount rack for now. The base model's stereo will need replacing, but for $27,000 I'm very impressed with the vehicle.

I forgot about the new Pathfinder. A guy at work just leased one for next to nothing and seems very happy with it. It's huge inside and the new 4.0 liter motor is really nice.

audi wagons from a few years ago had a 3rd row seat. they are fantastic cars. if you considered used, you could find which year had the 3rd row and look for a low-mileage certified vehicle. Quattro!

It's too bad BMW discontinued the 5 series wagon. My sister was in the same market and got an X5 because the 3 series wagon was too small for her. I read somewhere they are bringing back the 5 series wagon. you could check into that?

If you dropped the 7 passenger thing, you could open the door to the audi quattro, the bmw 325xit, or even save a bit of coin and slum it with me: we got a passat wagon. you can get a nice car with the 4motion and tons of doodads for less money.

The whole concept of a Porsche or VW SUV (basically the same) is marketing BS to me. Geez, its an SUV. An SUV is a truck. You want performance, buy a car.

So, getting past my little prejustice, I think the Freestyle offered the best package. I want to fit a 9'6" surfboard inside and like the way the Freestyle seats fold flat. Plenty of room and enough power for a truck. Mileage was not very good but I have never owned anything over 4 cylinders so I'm jaded. (19 city/24 highway if I remember correctly).

The Pilot may be more dependable. (oh, heck, very likely is more dependable) but a little smaller.

I agree with you and do not really trust GM.

My younger son owned a Volvo 850 Turbo (1996) and it was a POS. Lots and lots and lots of expensive repairs so no Volvo's for me. We ended up donating it to the American Cancer Society in December. Many years ago I owned a Volvo 240 DL. Not the most reliable either and expensive to repair and service.

Toyota is supposed to be the most reliable vehicle made. I can't argue with that.

Style. If that is a concern, I go back to the "buy a car" argument. Style is just too personal to make an honest judgement call on anyway.

I want to move up to something larger next time around and for the very first time in my life, am considering an SUV. However, for me, a Passat or Mazda6 wagon that seats five (I normally don't carry more than two) is probably plenty. My surfboard does fit in my current Passat Sedan so that is my measure for the minimun interior length of a vehicle.

AWD is very attractive as I live in the northeast and drive a lot in snow.

So, after all my research, my heart leans towards the Freestyle but my rational mind says go with the Pilot or a Toyota.

:)

Good luck.

Maybe you can suggest to her that you should be basing your choice on the space you need 98% of the time. Then, if you really need the 7 passenger space, you can always rent whatever fits best when you need it.

Maybe then you can work in some of the other options ;)

Great minds think alike. I used that exact argument with her.... She wouldn't budge. Maybe after we drive one?

The new Nissan Pathfinder seats 7 and has:
270 HP V6 with loads of torque - 15 mpg city, 21 mpg highway
a stability system
5 speed automatic with overdrive (woulda perferred the new Xterra's 6 speed manua)
4 wheel independent suspension
4 wheel drive has a low range (unlike car-based utes)
6000 pound towing capacity and standard hitch receiver
4 wheel limited slip and 4 wheel antilock discs standard.

It drives more like a sports car than any off-road capable SUV I've driven, very firmly sprung with minimal roll in corners. I took it up in the snow and couldn't get it stuck in 10-12 inches of powder. The stability system is very cool. I compared 90 degree turns on slick snowpack at 15-20 mph with and without it, and the difference is amazing.

On the downside, Yakima doesn't have fit information for the rack yet. The standard roof rails are very tall and narrow, so I'm not sure how I'm going to transfer over my Yakima rack, but I can use my hitch mount rack for now. The base model's stereo will need replacing, but for $27,000 I'm very impressed with the vehicle.

Another good suggestion that was off my radar screen. I never liked the older ones but I had noticed the '05 looks a lot better imo. Add on that the ubiquitous (and very nice) Nissan 3.5V6 engine (bumped up to 4.0 for more torque), and the 7 passenger seating, and we may have a winner.

Adding it to the list. Thanks. Here's a pic

That thing makes the Pacifica look down right skinny. It reminds me of the Murano which reminds me of a morbidly obese person with fat dripping off their arms.

Oh, well, as I've always stated, style is subjective. What I don't like others love. Look at Polynesians. Look at French cars.

Style also does not dictate that a vehicle is good or bad.
:)

I want to move up to something larger next time around and for the very first time in my life, am considering an SUV. However, for me, a Passat or Mazda6 wagon that seats five (I normally don't carry more than two) is probably plenty. My surfboard does fit in my current Passat Sedan so that is my measure for the minimun interior length of a vehicle.

AWD is very attractive as I live in the northeast and drive a lot in snow.

So, after all my research, my heart leans towards the Freestyle but my rational mind says go with the Pilot or a Toyota.

:)

Good luck.

really look at the passat wagon. we got one, and it's nice. FWD, and put snow tires on this winter (live in MA most of the winter... posting from italy now, though). the small engine has a lot of pep with the turbo, and gets over 30 mpg on the highway with a bike rack (no bike) on the roof.
very big inside.
quick edit: you are really considering a car called 'Freestyle'? Just get a minivan. Nothing wrong with that!

1.8, FWD, four snows, stardard, sedan. That is my only real complaint. Sedan. I just got back from a week in Montreal and the Adirondacks and had no trouble in the snow.

I really like the AWD version of the Passat wagon and would not mind a six cylinder but that is now only available in the GLX and comes with a list price around 34K. Ouch!

I am also toying with an automatic which is something I have never owned. Unfortunately, when you couple the auto with AWD and the 1.8 and the performance is pretty sluggish. Guess if you compare it to a real SUV it would not be considered sluggish though.

I just saw that Mazda has come out with a 2.3 liter turbo AWD version of the 6 sedan as a '06 model. I would imagine they would follow with an AWD wagon and that is a nice option over the Passat and even a bit longer (187.8" vs 184.3").

The whole concept of a Porsche or VW SUV (basically the same) is marketing BS to me. Geez, its an SUV. An SUV is a truck. You want performance, buy a car.

So, getting past my little prejustice, I think the Freestyle offered the best package. I want to fit a 9'6" surfboard inside and like the way the Freestyle seats fold flat. Plenty of room and enough power for a truck. Mileage was not very good but I have never owned anything over 4 cylinders so I'm jaded. (19 city/24 highway if I remember correctly).

The Pilot may be more dependable. (oh, heck, very likely is more dependable) but a little smaller.

I agree with you and do not really trust GM.

My younger son owned a Volvo 850 Turbo (1996) and it was a POS. Lots and lots and lots of expensive repairs so no Volvo's for me. We ended up donating it to the American Cancer Society in December. Many years ago I owned a Volvo 240 DL. Not the most reliable either and expensive to repair and service.

Toyota is supposed to be the most reliable vehicle made. I can't argue with that.

Style. If that is a concern, I go back to the "buy a car" argument. Style is just too personal to make an honest judgement call on anyway.

I want to move up to something larger next time around and for the very first time in my life, am considering an SUV. However, for me, a Passat or Mazda6 wagon that seats five (I normally don't carry more than two) is probably plenty. My surfboard does fit in my current Passat Sedan so that is my measure for the minimun interior length of a vehicle.

AWD is very attractive as I live in the northeast and drive a lot in snow.

So, after all my research, my heart leans towards the Freestyle but my rational mind says go with the Pilot or a Toyota.

:)

Good luck.

Hey Rev. Your thought process makes sense. Just a couple of notes on your observations.
1. While it used to be true about buying a car if you want performance and styling .... more and more vehicles (I won't call them cars or trucks, just to keep things from getting too confused) have amazing performance and utlitity potential all in one package. It's like picking a bike, you always comprise something when trying to choose an all-around performer but it seems there are more vehicles now that do alot of things very well without too much compromise. Kinda like my Hammerhead 100x :) .

2. I do like the Freestyle. I got a chance to drive it for about 4 hours when I delivered it to my dad after he bought his. I Iike the looks and the CVT but wish the engine had a little more power. It's stupid and shallow, I know , but the fact that my dad bought one first makes it less appealing. There is a local dealer (a plus) and I've had good luck with Fords.

3. I guess I've just been lucky, but I've just never had car problems with any of the cars I've owned so the reliablity quotient doesn't mean much to me. I know everyone says Honda and Toyota are the best..... but until I get a lemon from one of the other manufacturers I don't get too excited about that within reason.... I mean, I wouldn't buy a Yugo or a Volga.

4. I think the Volvos are getting better on reliablity... but still. A couple of people have mentioned their poor reliablity.... Any dissenters out there?

5. I actually like the looks/styling of some of the crossover type wagons better than many of the sedans. It is a personal thing though, you're right.

The Truck/SUV magazine I was looking at said the Freestyle was basically a Ford 500 Wagon. I consider that a good thing. Of course, the Ford 500 is based on a Volvo so I should have problems but I don't. No more than I would with a Mazda which is another Ford related product.

They said the Freestyle was not meant for off road driving but I would not be buying a vehicle like that for its off road capability. Space wise, it really gives you a lot. I especially like the way the seats fold flat, as I said already.

Realistically I would be better served with an AWD wagon. I just saw that Mazda is offering a 2.3 liter turbo AWD sedan as an '06 model and expect that will end up in a wagon soon enough. Another nice option. My current 1.8 liter Passat sedan has served me well and I would have to look at AWD wagon before making any final decisions. Trouble is it is difficult to get the 1.8 AWD with a manual trans and the auto is sluggish. Go to the six cylinder GLX and you are in the 34K list price area. The Passat is being redesigned for '06 and from what I have seen will have nice Audi-like lines.

As for performance, my wife would always rather drive a sports car/sports sedan with a manual transmission so there would be an exciting car in the family anyway. I could go with a boring but practical vehicle and still have fun with her car.

More Freestyle questions.

How was the fit and finish quality. Up to Japanese standards? Was it a quiet ride? Concerning performance, what are the 0-60 figures? One person's idea of sedate may not be anothers. If I get 0-60 in 8 seconds (the 1.8 Passat with the manual does) I'm satisfied. My older son has a car that does it in 4.6 seconds. ('04 Subaru WRX STI) He is very satisfied! I am damned impressed but it is just too small and the rear seat doesn't even fold down. :(

So many choices. That's a good thing.
:)

Great minds think alike. I used that exact argument with her.... She wouldn't budge. Maybe after we drive one?

I hope you have more luck on that than I did. My wife won't let me anywhere near the BMW, Audi or Infinity dealers here. She keeps getting sticker shock. Up here in Canada, most of that group are over 50 k.

You could try her on the Subaru. Push the safety, AWD etc. And from what I hear, that XT is pretty fun to drive with all the extra power....if she has a heavy foot it may be an easier sale and a pretty good middle ground.

Drek

More Freestyle questions.

How was the fit and finish quality. Up to Japanese standards? Was it a quiet ride? Concerning performance, what are the 0-60 figures? One person's idea of sedate may not be anothers. If I get 0-60 in 8 seconds (the 1.8 Passat with the manual does) I'm satisfied. My older son has a car that does it in 4.6 seconds. ('04 Subaru WRX STI) He is very satisfied! I am damned impressed but it is just too small and the rear seat doesn't even fold down. :(

So many choices. That's a good thing.
:)

The fit and finish on the Freestyle (JH is right, that is a dorky name) seemed pretty good. Better than average for american cars. The ride was quiet. no wind noise around doors or windows, no rattles etc. Cornering was really quite good. Very flat. I kept the cruise on 75mph on one curvy mountain pass without even noticing. My Windstar or Truck usually let me know it's time to slow down on the curves with their body roll. I like the Continously Variable Transmission (CVT) in this situation as well. You never have to lock out the overdrive like on a regular automatic tranny in hilly, ups and downs, it just adjusts the gear ratio to the optimum pretty seamlessly. I can't remember the numbers on the 0-60 but it feels maybe a little faster than my van. I mean it's adequate, but that's about all. I'm looking for something that's quite a bit more than adequate this time.

The seats are comfortable. Even the third row seats weren't bad. I do like the fold flat capability too. Although that's becoming pretty much the standard anymore. The controls are pretty intuitive and have a good feel. The ventillation system works well, although the automatic climate control didn't always keep up when there was sudden changes in outside temps. The suspension felt a bit stiff going over high speed bumbs like on freeway overpasses, but for everything else felt really good. Plush on slow bumps and smaller irregularities but very controlled in corners. You ought to go drive one.

I also like the Passat wagons. No third row seat though.

I totally forgot about that one. my neighbor did tons of research and tons of test drives on trucks and ended up with the titan(same powerplant and undercarriage) and that thing hauls! we fit 4 guys and 6 bikes in that thing, and it wasn't even the full crew cab version, so the pathfinder should be plenty roomy. All this aside, how often does your wife think her college kid will get into his mom's car with friends anyway!!! :D

Keep your eyes peeled for these over the next 12 months.Designed and built in Australia but I have heard rumours that they are now to be released in the US.

Ford Territory. Comes in a choice of 2WD or AWD. Options for 5 or 7 seats with the 3rd row of seats folding down under the floor leaving a completely flat cargo area. Barra 6 cylinder engine. Second row seats can also fold flat.

http://images3.fotopic.net/?iid=yshrrw&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

http://images4.fotopic.net/?iid=yshrr0&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

http://images2.fotopic.net/?iid=yshrrv&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

More info here (http://www.ford.com.au/territory/) .

....., how often does your wife think her college kid will get into his mom's car with friends anyway!!! :D

LOL. Good point. Better question: How often does she think our college age boys will come home period. I do have twin girls still at home and a 6 year old with plenty of friends and soccer teams still always needing rides it seems. But, hey, if there's no room, there's no room.

I read somewhere they are bringing back the 5 series wagon. you could check into that?


That would be cool. That's another instance where I think the wagon would be better looking than the sedan. The new 5 series sedan with its tacked on, Bangled up hiney is ugly. A wagon version would take care of that.

More Freestyle questions.

Concerning performance, what are the 0-60 figures?

0-60 = 8.2sec. Not bad, but I still think it needs a stronger engine. Maybe Ford could buy a nice 3.5 V6 from Nissan and drop it in there... Or better yet, drop in that Yamaha built narrow angle V8 they've added as an option on the Volvo XC90 this year. Then I think I'd be all over this choice.

Here's more info on the Freestyle, a picture, and a link to the Car and Driver road test.
I forgot to mention, the engine does make quite a bit of noise when floored. The CVT just keeps it at 5800rpm and matches ratios until you let up or you hit the speed governor @ 111mph. It's a little different, but seems to work.

Link: http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=8897&page_number=1
Pic:

0-60 in 8.2 is descent. My Passat is rev limited at around 135 mph. After I bought my 2000 I had to see if the figures were accurate. They are, at least on the NY Thruway (only once, had to see if the car was as fast as stated in articles).

So, fancy market speak aside, the Freestyle (I'm neutral on the name) is a very nice AWD station wagon. By the time I am actually in the market, which will not be until 2007 when my youngest finishes college, I imagine there will be more engine choices. Prehaps a hybrid like the one Honda put in the Accord that combines excellent performance with better than average mileage or a small V-8 that is economical.

Thanks for your input. My gut feeling is that hybrids will be pretty common in SUV's, if not most cars, in the next few years.

PS: My gut feeling is usually wrong.........

Certified Pre-Owned Audi S6 wagon is the way to go if you can find one. Quite thirsty though...

As far as 5-seaters go - I have a Passat wagon, the wife has a Saab 9-5 wagon. Both great cars. Recently had a 9-5 Aero wagon loaner - if performance is an issue check that rocketship out!!

There are financial advantages to buying used but I want new with an extended warranty to cover me bumper to bumper for 100k. One electronic breakdown can easily cover the extra cost of a extended warranty. Historically we keep cars for 150k miles or ten years so I can justify the added expense of a new vehicle.

My sons have both bought used cars with less than stellar results but it was all they could afford.

Have you seen the '06 Passat sedan? Very nice. No photos of the wagon yet.

As for the Audi, while nicer (subjective) than a VW, an Audi is basically a VW with a higher price tag so I would stick with the VW.

Saabs are nice but are becoming too GM for my tastes and cost more than I want to spend. I liked them much better when the key was between the seats. Quirky but different.

There are financial advantages to buying used but I want new with an extended warranty to cover me bumper to bumper for 100k. One electronic breakdown can easily cover the extra cost of a extended warranty. Historically we keep cars for 150k miles or ten years so I can justify the added expense of a new vehicle.

My sons have both bought used cars with less than stellar results but it was all they could afford.

Have you seen the '06 Passat sedan? Very nice. No photos of the wagon yet.

As for the Audi, while nicer (subjective) than a VW, an Audi is basically a VW with a higher price tag so I would stick with the VW.

Saabs are nice but are becoming too GM for my tastes and cost more than I want to spend. I liked them much better when the key was between the seats. Quirky but different.

I drove a couple of '06 Passats here in the AZ proving grounds as part of a customer clinic. They were both great. The wagon had the 3.2 vr6 which is basically a slightly detuned version of the lump in the R32 and Touareg. The sedan had the 2.0 FSI which was pretty damn peppy for a 4 banger. Very pretty cars. Can't wait to see what the 2.0t can do when tuned...

The 9-5 is still pretty Saab-ish - key in the middle, driver's console skewed entirely to the driver, lousy cup-holders ( ;) ). The one beneficial effect of GM ownership is the heavy discounting available. At the time the wife and I were cross shopping an A4 Avant, BMW 325 ix wagon, and a Benz C320 wagon. Even the base Saab 9-5 2.3lpt engine blew them all away in terms of performance and that's what she ended up liking. It's worth test driving an Aero just for sheer grins factor.

Agree w/you on the Audi thing. The A6 and Passat share the same platform and if you took the skin off the Passat you'd see plenty of 4 ring logos on the running gear.

Keep your eyes peeled for these over the next 12 months.Designed and built in Australia but I have heard rumours that they are now to be released in the US.

Ford Territory. .

Looks cool. Any idea on the horsepower rating? A bit taller than the Freestyle but not as big as an Expedition. Sounds like Exploder territory. Wonder where that's going to fit in their crowded line-up. I've got my doubts they'll import that. They wouldn't want to canabolize Exploder sales anymore than they already are with the Freestyle.

Seems like Ford always does that. I just read about a hot sedan they offer in Australia that would knock the socks off the pedestrian Taurus (in looks and performance) but they won't offer it here for fear it would hurt Taurus sales.

Edit: I found the engine info on the Ford/Australia site you provided:
"The new Ford Territory’s Barra 182 4.0 litre, 24 valve in-line six engine boasts twin overhead camshafts and Dual Variable Cam Timing (VCT). Athletic performance is provided with 182kW of power and 380Nm of torque."

That sounds like the engine the Freestyle needs.
Can anyone provide the conversion into horsepower and ft-lbs?

Looks cool. Any idea on the horsepower rating? A bit taller than the Freestyle but not as big as an Expedition. Sounds like Exploder territory. Wonder where that's going to fit in their crowded line-up. I've got my doubts they'll import that. They wouldn't want to canabolize Exploder sales anymore than they already are with the Freestyle.

Seems like Ford always does that. I just read about a hot sedan they offer in Australia that would knock the socks off the pedestrian Taurus (in looks and performance) but they won't offer it here for fear it would hurt Taurus sales.

Edit: I found the engine info on the Ford/Australia site you provided:
"The new Ford Territory�s Barra 182 4.0 litre, 24 valve in-line six engine boasts twin overhead camshafts and Dual Variable Cam Timing (VCT). Athletic performance is provided with 182kW of power and 380Nm of torque."

That sounds like the engine the Freestyle needs.
Can anyone provide the conversion into horsepower and ft-lbs?

Australia solved the problem of the Taurus by simply not importing any more of them. It was probably pretty easy for them seeing as though they were not a big seller anyway. The Exploder still gets imported despite many reports of them not being reliable. The Territory has won quite a few awards in it's first year of production and is very popular.

According to
these guys (http://www.wentec.com/unipower/calculators/kw_hp.asp) 182kw = 244.06hp. This caculator (http://hemsidor.torget.se/users/b/bohjohan/convert/conv2_e.htm) shows 380Nm to equal 280.27362 foot lbs.

(If I did it right that is)

Something more sensible than that is a new Dodge Sprinter...yeehaw! Decent mileage, a ton of room, and a torquey little diesel.



Oh yes. That'll be my next vehicle. Seriously, sometime this year.

Do yourself a favor and drive a Saab 9-5 Aero. Imagine a Trailblazer-sized SUV with the inside and outside trim of the Saab 9-5...ala 9-7X This will be a fast, fast vehicle which you probably won't see many of on the road because Saabs aren't too popular in the US.
http://www.gmcanada.com/ssi/static/english/vehicles/2005/saab/97x/97x_overview.html

Do yourself a favor and drive a Saab 9-5 Aero. Imagine a Trailblazer-sized SUV with the inside and outside trim of the Saab 9-5...ala 9-7X This will be a fast, fast vehicle which you probably won't see many of on the road because Saabs aren't too popular in the US.
http://www.gmcanada.com/ssi/static/english/vehicles/2005/saab/97x/97x_overview.html

Thanks for the link. I'm going to have to call the Saab dealer and see when they are expecting the 9-7x. I'm very interested in it. After reading the comments on the 9-5Aero I went and read up on them. If I was looking for a fast 5-passenger wagon, that one would be right up there. Very cool. And they're giving the 9-7x a 300hp V8 so what's not to love. Definitely high on my list.... unless they're not coming out for a while yet.

Any comments on Saab reliablity from anyone who's owned one? There wouldn't be a dealer close (250miles) if I go this way, so that's a concern as far as service and warranty work etc.... in fact the only dealers here are Ford and Chrysler/Dodge which is why I still have the Freestyle and the Pacifica on my list.

MDX and Pilot have the same seating set-up (seven passengers), but I don't blame you. I would have bought the Honda too had I not been able to buy the MDX at cost.


I'm having a hard time loving the cookie cutter styling on the Pilot so I went and checked out the MDX. Pretty cool. 7 passenger seating (I didn't know), a little stronger version of the 3.3 VTEC engine, better looking than the Pilot, and still around 40K. And JD Power customer satisfaction ratings are off the charts.

I've added it to the list. Thanks for the info.

Thanks for the link. I'm going to have to call the Saab dealer and see when they are expecting the 9-7x. I'm very interested in it. After reading the comments on the 9-5Aero I went and read up on them. If I was looking for a fast 5-passenger wagon, that one would be right up there. Very cool. And they're giving the 9-7x a 300hp V8 so what's not to love. Definitely high on my list.... unless they're not coming out for a while yet.

Any comments on Saab reliablity from anyone who's owned one? There wouldn't be a dealer close (250miles) if I go this way, so that's a concern as far as service and warranty work etc.... in fact the only dealers here are Ford and Chrysler/Dodge which is why I still have the Freestyle and the Pacifica on my list.

You could probably extrapolate the reliability from reading trailblazer/envoy ratings as it's based on the same GM platform. Not sure where they're sourcing the engine from...

www.saabnet.com is a pretty good place to start if you want more input on them

Our 9-5 has been above average reliability wise. Not Toyota/Honda reliable but better than your average Euro. Having said that - I'd think twice about it if my nearest dealer was 250 miles away

I agree with Srexy on the saabnet link. We have a 1991 9000 turbo and 1996 9000 super cs and both have had their fair share of "things" which have gone wrong. Both were bought used, however, and I work on them myself. There is a reason there is a small but devout Saab cult out there. These cars have so much character and are well thought out. Model for model, I think they even surpass Volvo in safety ratings which many people don't know about.

We bought the 1996 off of my parents (he bought new in 1996) and the car is probably the biggest sleeper on the road. The 1991 has 170K and we are currently trying to sell it - it still runs strong but I bought the '96 for dirt cheap from pop. There is something to be said with a turbocharged car...especially living at 5000 feet and going up to 10-11,000 to go skiing on a regular basis. Now the 9-7x won't be turbocharged - but the 300hp would probably suffice. :)

One area of concern down the road - Saabs are notorious for poor resale value. You can get a $40K new saab 9-5 Aero wagon a few years old off of ebay w/40-60K miles for under $15,000. Horrible for someone selling after three years old, but wonderful for me who needs a safe, nice car - has a new family and first year w.a mortgage payment.

Subaru WRX wagon or Forester Turbo would do all you need except only cary 5 people but they make up for it by being more fun to drive than ANY vehicle mentioned so far plus they aren't too expensive.
http://images8.fotki.com/v111/photos/4/43793/1638371/CamberGOOD-vi.jpg
http://www.freerentmoney.com/wrx/board3.jpg

Resurrecting a dead thread to give some closure to it. Like anyone still cares. :rolleyes:

It took me/us a while to decide which car to buy, but having a local dealer who is really good to work with and makes car buying very painless swung it in favor of the Freestyle.

I like how it drives. Quite sporty (compared to a minivan especially), corners well, holds the bike and the family. What more do you need, right? Well 50-80 more hp and torque would've been nice.

It is pretty gutless around town, off idle, merging into traffic etc. Even the wife noticed. Some of this feel may be due to the CVT because it seems to have plenty of power for passing and maintaining speed on steeps at highway speed.

Anyone have any suggestions for pepping up the engine. Chip? Turbo? Supercharger? Does anyone make stuff for this engine? Ford 3.0 V6 DOHC. Or should I just live with it?

A coupla pics:

not even sure why i'm reading this post... but I personally would have spent like 10k on the nicest late 80's Merc. Grand Marquis Wagon (with the fold up seats in the back it'll seat 7 and a bag of soccer balls). Then I would take yer extra 30+K and outfit it with a big block V8, Supercharger, posi-rearend, wider axles and new gears.. jack up the body 12", jack up the suspension another 12", toss on some 30" steel AmRacing rims and find the biggest touring tires made (for sportiness). Don't forget to have it dipped in black epoxy paint for durability (and shinyness). Oh, and install a lift-gate on each side like a running board so there's no climbing-in necessary. You could prolly even afford to have the grill rebuilt to accommodate a quad-lens headlight setup, like the 'ole Family Truckster of Nat.Lampoons legend... sorry, but I don't have any pix for reference. If I find any tho, I'll make sure to post
'em.

This definitely has LOTS to do with mountain biking. Yes, it does.

Resurrecting a dead thread to give some closure to it. Like anyone still cares. :rolleyes:

It took me/us a while to decide which car to buy, but having a local dealer who is really good to work with and makes car buying very painless swung it in favor of the Freestyle.

I like how it drives. Quite sporty (compared to a minivan especially), corners well, holds the bike and the family. What more do you need, right? Well 50-80 more hp and torque would've been nice.

It is pretty gutless around town, off idle, merging into traffic etc. Even the wife noticed. Some of this feel may be due to the CVT because it seems to have plenty of power for passing and maintaining speed on steeps at highway speed.

Anyone have any suggestions for pepping up the engine. Chip? Turbo? Supercharger? Does anyone make stuff for this engine? Ford 3.0 V6 DOHC. Or should I just live with it?

A coupla pics:

I wonder if the feel of being gutless has more to do with the electronic throttle control, rather than the CVT. I drove one of the '05 300hp Mustang GT's with an automatic, and I noticed right away that at low speeds it seemed that the processor didn't open the throttle the way your right foot wanted it too! (Don't ask what I was trying to do) Maybe programmed to open the throttle slower at low speeds so it won't be too touchy when parking, something like that. Just a thought anyway. :)

Btw.. Is McGill still on the map? I bought a car from a guy that lived there and worked at Hyland Mtrs. Been almost 20 years ago and at that time looked like it was about ready to go into the history books.

Enjoy the new car!

not even sure why i'm reading this post... but I personally would have spent like 10k on the nicest late 80's Merc. Grand Marquis Wagon (with the fold up seats in the back it'll seat 7 and a bag of soccer balls). Then I would take yer extra 30+K and outfit it with a big block V8, Supercharger, posi-rearend, wider axles and new gears.. jack up the body 12", jack up the suspension another 12", toss on some 30" steel AmRacing rims and find the biggest touring tires made (for sportiness). Don't forget to have it dipped in black epoxy paint for durability (and shinyness). Oh, and install a lift-gate on each side like a running board so there's no climbing-in necessary. You could prolly even afford to have the grill rebuilt to accommodate a quad-lens headlight setup, like the 'ole Family Truckster of Nat.Lampoons legend... sorry, but I don't have any pix for reference. If I find any tho, I'll make sure to post
'em.

This definitely has LOTS to do with mountain biking. Yes, it does.

Better yet, get the 76-78 model. Already got the 460, the 9" disc brake rear end, and dual-facing rear seats (seating for 10!), all for under $300 :rolleyes: :D

SUV costs too much gas! I prefer Honda Accord V6 EX. It is smooth as smoothville. It runs like a lexus. The interior is quiet.

Btw.. Is McGill still on the map? I bought a car from a guy that lived there and worked at Hyland Mtrs. Been almost 20 years ago and at that time looked like it was about ready to go into the history books.

Enjoy the new car!

Highland motors is now a Holiday Inn/Prospector Casino and McGill is barely on the map but still alive. My wife was raised in McGill so we can't say anything too bad. Did you recognize Ely from the pictures or did you look up my profile?

I don't think the Freestyle has an electronic throttle.....I just think its 200hp are all at 5800rpm. :( It does seem to rev pretty freely though once you mash it.

Resurrecting a dead thread to give some closure to it. Like anyone still cares. :rolleyes:

It took me/us a while to decide which car to buy, but having a local dealer who is really good to work with and makes car buying very painless swung it in favor of the Freestyle.

I like how it drives. Quite sporty (compared to a minivan especially), corners well, holds the bike and the family. What more do you need, right? Well 50-80 more hp and torque would've been nice.

It is pretty gutless around town, off idle, merging into traffic etc. Even the wife noticed. Some of this feel may be due to the CVT because it seems to have plenty of power for passing and maintaining speed on steeps at highway speed.

Anyone have any suggestions for pepping up the engine. Chip? Turbo? Supercharger? Does anyone make stuff for this engine? Ford 3.0 V6 DOHC. Or should I just live with it?

A coupla pics:

I am considering buying a Freestyle myself. I haven't looked at them in person yet, but was wondering how roomy the interior is?? Does the third row of seats come out or fold into the floor?? With the third row out, could you put a bike inside?? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan now, and with the third row out I can fit 2 bikes inside. Thanks for any help/info you can give :)

I am considering buying a Freestyle myself. I haven't looked at them in person yet, but was wondering how roomy the interior is?? Does the third row of seats come out or fold into the floor?? With the third row out, could you put a bike inside?? I have a Toyota Sienna minivan now, and with the third row out I can fit 2 bikes inside. Thanks for any help/info you can give :)

Interior is pretty roomy. Not minivan roomy but we fit four people and all my sons stuff plus his bike (on the roof) when we went in to fetch him from college last week. The rear seats fold and stow flat. I haven't tried putting my bike in with just the third row down, but I think one would fit. It's super easy to fit one in with the third row and middle seats flat. It's very easy to extract it as well because the floor inclines slightly toward the front. Just grap the back wheel and the bike just rolls right out.

Anyone have any suggestions for pepping up the engine. Chip? Turbo? Supercharger? Does anyone make stuff for this engine? Ford 3.0 V6 DOHC. Or should I just live with it?


Live with it. It's a nice vehicle and you don't want to do any ghetto sh1t to it, like make it louder or drink more gas. Save your money for the bike or bikes you will put on the roof. :D

Interior is pretty roomy. Not minivan roomy but we fit four people and all my sons stuff plus his bike (on the roof) when we went in to fetch him from college last week. The rear seats fold and stow flat. I haven't tried putting my bike in with just the third row down, but I think one would fit. It's super easy to fit one in with the third row and middle seats flat. It's very easy to extract it as well because the floor inclines slightly toward the front. Just grap the back wheel and the bike just rolls right out.

Sweet, I definitely have to give them a looksee. It would be nice to ditch the minivan I am stuck with now ;) Oh well, I can't complain too much. With kids aged 9,3 and 1, my dad says I am serving time in the "minivan years." Plus it makes a good bike-wagon.

Thanks again for the info :)

the freestyle has alot of the volvo componentry. it is basically a volvo wagon except that it says ford on it and costs alot less oh yeah and the fuel mi. is pretty good also all of the seats fold flat

duh. my point being that the odyssey, for a minivan, is very fast..its nice to be able to go up mountain passes at 80 mph...
Then go 80 mph.

TJ

Highland motors is now a Holiday Inn/Prospector Casino and McGill is barely on the map but still alive. My wife was raised in McGill so we can't say anything too bad. Did you recognize Ely from the pictures or did you look up my profile?

I don't think the Freestyle has an electronic throttle.....I just think its 200hp are all at 5800rpm. :( It does seem to rev pretty freely though once you mash it.

When I saw the pic of the train & snow, the background reminded me of McGill and the area where the Pony Express route was. The guy I bought the car from would have graduated from HS around 77 or 78. His parents lived in McGill and the house was on the Eastern (i think that was the direction) most street against the mountain. His Dad's name was Marvin, his David. The only time I was in Ely was after we got the car loaded, Marvin took us there to have dinner, and show us "out-of-staters" the red light district!

You can ask your wife if she knows/knew the people. The car was at 41 First St. Still have the directions they gave me: "Hwy/ 4th, left on Ave K to 1st. Puke orange house with 2 BFT's in front (pine)"

Live with it. It's a nice vehicle and you don't want to do any ghetto sh1t to it, like make it louder or drink more gas. Save your money for the bike or bikes you will put on the roof. :D

Yeah, that's what I decided too. It'd cost too much to trade it in now (Although, I see the SAAB 97x is out now) and adding a chip or turbo would just make it use more gas. I'm biding my time. Three more years and the twins graduate from highschool..... :D Then I'll get me a high performance bike hauler.

When I saw the pic of the train & snow, the background reminded me of McGill and the area where the Pony Express route was. The guy I bought the car from would have graduated from HS around 77 or 78. His parents lived in McGill and the house was on the Eastern (i think that was the direction) most street against the mountain. His Dad's name was Marvin, his David. The only time I was in Ely was after we got the car loaded, Marvin took us there to have dinner, and show us "out-of-staters" the red light district!

You can ask your wife if she knows/knew the people. The car was at 41 First St. Still have the directions they gave me: "Hwy/ 4th, left on Ave K to 1st. Puke orange house with 2 BFT's in front (pine)"

I graduated in '79 so I'm sure I know them.... just trying to figure it out. I'll ask Saundra. Over in McGill you knew everyone by what house they lived in. In fact you still call the houses by who used to live there instead of by address. Gotta love microscopic towns. Still got the legal Brothels too. :rolleyes:

I think the international horsepower war is spoiling people - we're putting way too much emphasis on power. The three cars I've driven the most ('79 Pinto, '94 Aerostar, '85 Caprice) are all pretty low on power, and all but the Pinto were easily driven anywhere.

Now we think 0-60 in 8.2 is slow. I've never had a problem with any vehicle I've driven which does that in the 10-11 second range.