Friends of Otero MTB! is here!

A group of supporters for Otero Canyon has formed a local mountain bike advocacy group to represent Central New Mexico, http://www.fooriders.org . While we understand that not all subscribers to this petition are mountain bikers, many of you have expressed an interest in joining and developing such a club.

What is Friends of Otero MTB!?
*A newly formed mountain biking advocacy group serving Central New Mexico. It was founded in the summer of 2003 by a group of local volunteers opposed to the closing of one of the state's most well known multi-use trail networks, Otero Canyon.
*"FOO" stands for "Friends of Otero."

Why join Friends of Otero MTB!?
*To become part of an organization that proactively promotes new trails and the sport of mountain biking in general.
*To initiate and promote all efforts to maintain and create single-track trails.
*To partner with other user groups such as birders, horseback riders, motorized trail users, and hikers to develop integrated land use plans that include the needs of the mountain biking community.
*To get bike shop discounts.
*To get a really cool Friends of Otero MTB! T-Shirt and sticker.
*To ride and socialize with other like-minded people.

Still need more information on the Friends of Otero MTB? Please visit our website at http://www.fooriders.org for more information on how to join, meeting announcements, project announcements, etc.

Become a member today and help support Central New Mexico mountain biking!
You can also email the Friends of Otero MTB! at info@fooriders.org

Friends of Otero MTB! is a fully recognized 501c3 organization registered in the state of New Mexico.

I'm disappointed that despite my previous request to you guys to not use the fooriders.org domain name you still chose to do so. I've had <a href="http://www.whois.sc/fooriders.com"><b>fooriders.com</b></a> since 2002 and your recent choice in naming yourself demonstrates a clear disregard of the possible confusion between our entities. This to me seems completely and morally irresponsible.

Nice going there, advocacy group.

We've changed changed our name to FOO, the riders of New Mexico. This distances our selves from you. OUr site has disclaimers stating that we are not you and have no relationship with your web-zine.

More importantly, and the point that you continue to miss, is that our name was thought of in a completely original manner. As stated before, FOO stands for Friends Of Otero. Check out THIS (http://www.saveotero.org) web site for reasons for that name.

Just maybe your site did not reach the audience that you first thought, even with you posting it here. The members of FOO that hang out on mtbr never saw or heard of your magazine until Months after our inseption. Then it was only after we contacted you that you even knew about our little group.

It amazing how you contiune to be so worried about a small local advocacy group 2 states away from your zine.

b

First off, it was <b>ME</b> who initially contacted you guys regarding the name conflict. On Oct. 9th of 2003 I sent two identical emails to "phfusion" stating I was aware of the fact that you guys just registered fooriders.org and I wasn't cool with it (did you guys somehow NOT notice that fooriders.com was registered when you created fooriders.org?). <i>It was my initial email</i> that lead to eventual email exchanges with Matt. As a matter of fact, I have complete records of all the emails if you'd like to see them posted here.

Also, just because YOU hadn't heard of fooriders has no bearing on the fact that we predate you and what you're doing isn't cool. The key to fooriders success is that there are *private* message areas on the site that the general public has no access or awareness of. It is not that I'm "worried" about you guys, but that to successfully protect our IP in the name I have to demonstrate a continued pattern of objection against all infringements on the name.

I've seen the Save Otero website before and think it's a great cause, but why you guys decided to change your identity from "Friends of Otero Canyon" to fooriders escapes me.

Again, knowingly infringinging on the fooriders.com site name seems completely and morally irresponsible.


Just for the record, if it seems I'm being a dick about things it's because I took exception to Matt Turgeon's reply to my request that you guys don't use fooriders.org:

"I will put you in contact with our Legal representation team."

"We are very fortunate to have at our disposal many attorneys not only practicing, but also at the university level. You will be contacted by one of them in the near future. I would believe the Foo Fighters might also have an interest in this."</i><p><br>

Just for the record, if it seems I'm being a dick about things it's because I took exception to Matt Turgeon's reply to my request that you guys don't use fooriders.org:

<p><br>

Tam Pham, that response was in jest, because you were pretty hostile, and quite rude. No need to continue to get personal and name names.

Thank you for your interest and I hope peace finds you.

[QUOTE=Timo]Tam Pham, that response was in jest, because you were pretty hostile, and quite rude. No need to continue to get personal and name names.
[QUOTE]

"Response in jest"... Very nice rationialization indeed. I can post the entire exchange of our emails in chronological order here if you like. I think it will really help the audience to understand my frustration with your organization's attitudes. Your continued, blatant infringement of fooriders has led me to being hostile and rude, but you <b>know</b> that my initial contacts with you were very cordial.

I'm not sure why you're hesitant to have names mentioned if you believe you're not partaking in anything of concern.

Your continued, blatant infringement of fooriders has led me to being hostile and rude, but you <b>know</b> that my initial contacts with you were very cordial.
QUOTE]

Agreed. We both have elevated this, while we both started cordial. I did the legal remark, after you did one, so I thought I was being a smart aleck. I was wrong for that Tam. You obviously have more at stake with the name, than I do, and I was too flip about it. Again, I am sorry.

All references to FooRiders will be removed from the website. Send me an email on your suggestions regarding what to do with the domain name.

All references to FooRiders will be removed from the website. Send me an email on your suggestions regarding what to do with the domain name.

But why don't you just use a domain with Friends of Otero or Otero riders or something like that, foo is pretty vague for what you're doing anyway.

Also, having been to Term's site, there is some confusion. Just my .02 FWIW.

OK, what exactly is the big deal here? fooriders.COM vs. fooriders.org? To me, the "ORG" is very different than the "COM", the two have very different connotations and are legally quite different. Did my wife get all upset when she had to go to ".net" for her company because someone else already had the same name ".com"? Nope. There's this crazy "freedom of speech" thing here in the US and I'm surprised, especially between two cycling groups, that this is an issue. I kind of liked the "fooriders" for friends of otero, sounded catchy. It never occured to me that there might be a fooriders.com (or .edu, .gov, .whatever...) or to care. I had never heard of fooriders.com until today, and just had heard about fooriders.org last week.

Maybe having completely missed all the back-and-forth I am overlooking something vitally important here.... doubt it though. We all ride bikes, and share a lot of passion about cycling, so that ought to help bridge the gap here, I'd think. There truly are more worthy ways to expend energy than to quibble about .com / .org discrepancies. Why not put a fooriders.org disclaimer (and link!) at bottom of home page, as fooriders.org did for you (well, disclaimer, not linked though...<hint?>). Both would benefit through more hits/traffic, it would seem to me.

Lastly, "foo" isn't anything special..... as a band had the "foo" before both groups.... at least "friends of otero" means something, as I couldn't find a description/explanation of the meaning of "foo" in fooriders.com context. Is there a vital significance that is degraded or disrespected by fooriders.org utilizing a similar domain name? Never mind how many times "foo" appears in a domain name in general! If I were Mr. foo.com, I'd be er,... I wouldn't care!

&lt;mtbr flame mode&gt;

Your pretense of insight is nothing short of "amazing".

Here's a clue: fooriders

Not foo fighters, not foo, not foomama. That's as simple as I can break it down. If you're still not clear on what the "big deal" is then I'm afraid there isn't enough time (for me anyways) to enlighten you.

&lt;/mtbr flame mode&gt;

Regardless, Matt has addressed this and Friends of Otero (Canyon) and Save Otero will stop using the fooriders name.

<MTBR mode flame>

Your pretense of insight is nothing short of "amazing".

Here's a clue: fooriders

Not foo fighters, not foo, not foomama. That's as simple as I can break it down. If you're still not clear on what the "big deal" is then I'm afraid there isn't enough time (for me anyways) to enlighten you.

</MTBR mode flame>


Flamer, eh? J/K

Well, that sure clears it up!

I made no pretense. I apologize if this shocking fact upsets you and if my observation was less than awe-inspiring. I dare say that the topic is equally as dull as my pedantic post.

Nice site, by the way!

Wow, all this over a name. How sad. This is as bad as The World Wildlife Foundation, suing World Wrestling Federation, over INITIALS!

As for "FOO" not meaning anything, It does mean something, do a google search on it. It has to do with UFO's. So to add to the fire (hee hee) I would say that the NM people would have "more" right to it. Also, since they're in another state, and you don't have any representation in New Mexico, that I can see, then they actually could use the name. Also, just because you have a "domain" name, that doesn't entitle you to the name. I'm almost positive you're not a corporation, right?

Well, I must go now, I'm preparing a lawsuit against Toad and the wet sprockets. The singer/bass player has the same name as me, I also play bass, I use to be called Toad in elementary school and I ride a mountain bike and sometimes my sprocket gets wet. I'm going to make him change his name.

Flamer, eh? J/K

Well, that sure clears it up!

I made no pretense. I apologize if this shocking fact upsets you and if my observation was less than awe-inspiring. I dare say that the topic is equally as dull as my pedantic post.

Nice site, by the way!

so lets just let this go. We realy appriciate the support but how about we channel it to help mountain biking in New Mexico.

go to www.fooriders.org for details. (yes the domain will be changed in time as well. As for the meaning of FOO. besides the obvious meaning, I really like the R. Crumb reference.