View Full Version : Marine: Just came out of the Fallujah and I honestly do not know where to start


mergs
12-07-2004, 04:54 PM
http://www.thegreenside.com/images/marinesega2.jpg


Email from Dave - Nov 19, 04

Dear Dad -
Just came out of the city and I honestly do not know where to start. I am afraid that whatever I send you will not do sufficient honor to the men who fought and took Fallujah.

Shortly before the attack, Task Force Fallujah was built. It consisted of Regimental Combat Team 1 built around 1st Marine Regiment and Regimental Combat Team 7 built around 7th Marine Regiment. Each Regiment consisted of two Marine Rifle Battalions reinforced and one Army mechanized infantry battalion.

Regimental Combat Team 1 (RCT-1) consisted of 3rd Light Armored Reconnaissance Battalion (3rd LAR), 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines (3/5); 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines (3/1)and 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry (2/7). RCT-7 was slightly less weighted but still a formidable force. Cutting a swath around the city was an Army Brigade known as Blackjack. The Marine RCT's were to assault the city while Blackjack kept the enemy off of the backs of the assault force.

The night prior to the actual invasion, we all moved out into the desert just north of the city. It was something to see. You could just feel the intensity in the Marines and Soldiers. It was all business. As the day cleared, the Task Force began striking targets and moving into final attack positions. As the invasion force commenced its movement into attack positions, 3rd LAR led off RCT-1's offensive with an attack up a peninsula formed by the Euphrates River on the west side of the city. Their mission was to secure the Fallujah Hospital and the two bridges leading out of the city. They executed there tasks like clockwork and smashed the enemy resistance holding the bridges. Simultaneous to all of this, Blackjack sealed the escape routes to the south of the city. As invasion day dawned, the net was around the city and the Marines and Soldiers knew that the enemy that failed to escape was now sealed.

3/5 began the actual attack on the city by taking an apartment complex on the northwest corner of the city. It was key terrain as the elevated positions allowed the command to look down into the attack lanes. The Marines took the apartments quickly and moved to the rooftops and began engaging enemy that were trying to move into their fighting positions. The scene on the rooftop was surreal. Machine gun teams were running boxes of ammo up 8 flights of stairs in full body armor and carrying up machine guns while snipers engaged enemy shooters. The whole time the enemy was firing mortars and rockets at the apartments. Honest to God, I don't think I saw a single Marine even distracted by the enemy fire. Their squad leaders, and platoon commanders had them prepared and they were executing their assigned tasks.

As mentioned, 2nd Battalion, 7th Cavalry joined the Regiment just prior to the fight. In fact, they started showing up for planning a couple of weeks in advance. There is always a professional rivalry between the Army and the Marine Corps but it was obvious from the outset that these guys were the real deal. They had fought in Najaf and were eager to fight with the Regiment in Fallujah. They are exceptionally well led and supremely confident.

2/7 became our wedge. In short, they worked with 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines. We were limited in the amount of prep fires that we were allowed to fire on the city prior to the invasion. This was a point of some consternation to the forces actually taking the city. Our compensation was to turn to 2/7 and ask them to slash into the city and create as much turbulence as possible for 3/1 to follow. Because of the political reality, the Marine Corps was also under pressure to "get it done quickly." For this reason, 2/7 and 3/1 became the penetration force into the city.

Immediately following 3/5's attack on the apartment buildings, 3/1 took the train station on the north end of the city. While the engineers blew a breach through the train trestle, the Cavalry soldiers poured through with their tanks and Bradley's and chewed an opening in the enemy defense. 3/1 followed them through until they reached a phase line deep into the northern half of the city. The Marine infantry along with a few tanks then turned to the right and attacked the heart of the enemy defense. The fighting was tough as the enemy had the area dialed in with mortars. 3/5 then attacked into the northwest corner of the city. This fight continued as both Marine rifle battalions clawed their way into the city on different axis.

There is an image burned into my brain that I hope I never forget. We came up behind 3/5 one day as the lead squads were working down the Byzantine streets of the Jolan area. An assault team of two Marines ran out from behind cover and put a rocket into a wall of an enemy strongpoint. Before the smoke cleared the squad behind them was up and moving through the hole and clearing the house. Just down the block another squad was doing the same thing. The house was cleared quickly and the Marines were running down the street to the next contact. Even in the midst of that mayhem, it was an awesome site.

The fighting has been incredibly close inside the city. The enemy is willing to die and is literally waiting until they see the whites of the eyes of the Marines before they open up. Just two days ago, as a firefight raged in close quarters, one of the interpreters yelled for the enemy in the house to surrender. The enemy yelled back that it was better to die and go to heaven than to surrender to infidels. This exchange is a graphic window into the world that the Marines and Soldiers have been fighting in these last 10 days.

I could go on and on about how the city was taken but one of the most amazing aspects to the fighting was that we saw virtually no civilians during the battle. Only after the fighting had passed did a few come out of their homes. They were provided food and water and most were evacuated out of the city. At least 90-95% of the people were gone from the city when we attacked.

I will end with a couple of stories of individual heroism that you may not have heard yet. I was told about both of these incidents shortly after they occurred. No doubt some of the facts will change slightly but I am confident that the meat is correct.

The first is a Marine from 3/5. His name is Corporal Yeager (Chuck Yeager's grandson). As the Marines cleared and apartment building, they got to the top floor and the point man kicked in the door. As he did so, an enemy grenade and a burst of gunfire came out. The explosion and enemy fire took off the point man's leg. He was then immediately shot in the arm as he lay in the doorway. Corporal Yeager tossed a grenade in the room and ran into the doorway and into the enemy fire in order to pull his buddy back to cover. As he was dragging the wounded Marine to cover, his own grenade came back through the doorway. Without pausing, he reached down and threw the grenade back through the door while he heaved his buddy to safety. The grenade went off inside the room and Cpl Yeager threw another in. He immediately entered the room following the second explosion. He gunned down three enemy all within three feet of where he stood and then let fly a third grenade as he backed out of the room to complete the evacuation of the wounded Marine. You have to understand that a grenade goes off within 5 seconds of having the pin pulled. Marines usually let them "cook off" for a second or two before tossing them in. Therefore, this entire episode took place in less than 30 seconds.

The second example comes from 3/1. Cpl Mitchell is a squad leader. He was wounded as his squad was clearing a house when some enemy threw pineapple grenades down on top of them. As he was getting triaged, the doctor told him that he had been shot through the arm. Cpl Mitchell told the doctor that he had actually been shot "a couple of days ago" and had given himself self aide on the wound. When the doctor got on him about not coming off the line, he firmly told the doctor that he was a squad leader and did not have time to get treated as his men were still fighting. There are a number of Marines who have been wounded multiple times but refuse to leave their fellow Marines.

It is incredibly humbling to walk among such men. They fought as hard as any Marines in history and deserve to be remembered as such. The enemy they fought burrowed into houses and fired through mouse holes cut in walls, lured them into houses rigged with explosives and detonated the houses on pursuing Marines, and actually hid behind surrender flags only to engage the Marines with small arms fire once they perceived that the Marines had let their guard down. I know of several instances where near dead enemy rolled grenades out on Marines who were preparing to render them aid. It was a fight to the finish in every sense and the Marines delivered.

I have called the enemy cowards many times in the past because they have never really held their ground and fought but these guys in the city did. We can call them many things but they were not cowards.

My whole life I have read about the greatest generation and sat in wonder at their accomplishments. For the first time, as I watch these Marines and Soldiers, I am eager for the future as this is just the beginning for them. Perhaps the most amazing characteristic of all is that the morale of the men is sky high. They hurt for the wounded and the dead but they are eager to continue to attack. Further, not one of them would be comfortable with being called a hero even though they clearly are.

By now the Marines and Soldiers have killed well over a thousand enemy. These were not peasants or rabble. They were reasonably well trained and entirely fanatical. Most of the enemy we have seen have chest rigs full of ammunition and are well armed are willing to fight to the death. The Marines and Soldiers are eager to close with them and the fighting at the end is inevitably close.

I will write you more the next time I come in about what we have found inside the city. All I can say is that even with everything that I knew and expected from the last nine months, the brutality and fanaticism of the enemy surprised me. The beheadings were even more common place than we thought but so were torture and summary executions. Even though it is an exaggeration, it seems as though every block in the northern part of the city has a torture chamber or execution site. There are hundreds of tons of munitions and tens of thousands of weapons that our Regiment alone has recovered. The Marines and Soldiers of the Regiment have also found over 400 IEDs already wired and ready to detonate. No doubt these numbers will grow in the days ahead.

In closing, I want to share with you a vignette about when the Marines secured the Old Bridge (the one where the Americans were mutilated and hung on March 31) this week. After the Marines had done all the work and secured the bridge, we walked across to meet up with 3rd LAR on the other side. On the Fallujah side of the bridge where the Americans were hung there is some Arabic writing on the bridge. An interpreter translated it for me as we walked through. It read: "Long Live the Mujahadeen. Fallujah is the Graveyard for Americans and the end of the Marine Corps."

As I came back across the bridge there was a squad sitting in their Amtrac smoking and watching the show. The Marines had written their own message below the enemy's. It is not something that Mom would appreciate but it fit the moment to a T. Not far from the vehicle were two dead enemy laying where they died. The Marines were sick of watching the "Dog and Pony show" and wanted to get back to work.

Dave

http://www.thegreenside.com/story.asp?ContentID=11151

Wasatch Walt
12-07-2004, 07:19 PM
Hey Mergs,

one question.

Is there any sappy self glorifying BS you don't fall for?

War sucks Mergs, and here you are amping it up to all it is not.

Can we talk about how many women/children/innocents were murdered by both sides in Fallujah Round 1 and Round 2?

Naw, that would interfere w/ your myth that war is noble.

War isn't noble, and if you were anymore than a armchair insurance agent, you would do more than know that, you would feel it.

Go read Vonnegut, you seem to have wandered.

T 3
12-07-2004, 07:49 PM
This story is about courageous men not politics.

The US trains these men to perform during peacetime and in wartime regardless of who's in the White House or what percentage of the nation thinks any particular war is just or unjust.America should be proud to have well trained brave men like the Marines in Mergs story.

Regardless of what anyone here in the United States thinks of the war in Iraq,the US needs men like
these Marines,the security of the US isn't a given,there may be a situation in our lifetimes where it's definitely about protecting US soil.

mergs
12-07-2004, 07:59 PM
Walt,

I am all for you posting threads about all the deaths of civilians, and how your for the war, then against, then back for again, then how we need to get out, and how its being bungled...

Me, if you don't mind of course... I'll keep posting things that are of interest to me. And I for one, I am interested what the Marines are experiencing in Fallujah and what they have to say. I can't be the only one here that finds what the Marines are going thru of interest. Don't like it, ignore me. Its really easy. Try it. It works.

Fock Vonnegut. Been there done that... zzzzzzz.

mergs
12-07-2004, 08:02 PM
This story is about courageous men not politics.

The US trains these men to perform during peacetime and in wartime regardless of who's in the White House or what percentage of the nation thinks any particular war is just or unjust.America should be proud to have well trained brave men like the Marines in Mergs story.

Regardless of what anyone here in the United States thinks of the war in Iraq,the US needs men like
these Marines,the security of the US isn't a given,there may be a situation in our lifetimes where it's definitely about protecting US soil.

Thanks T 3. You get it. Like always.... Walt, reply, a knee-jerk reaction... I doubt he got past the third paragraph before he decided to rant... Mergs this, Mergs that... played.

Happy Chanukuh, by the way. :)

gingy
12-07-2004, 08:05 PM
This story is about courageous men not politics.

The US trains these men to perform during peacetime and in wartime regardless of who's in the White House or what percentage of the nation thinks any particular war is just or unjust.America should be proud to have well trained brave men like the Marines in Mergs story.

Regardless of what anyone here in the United States thinks of the war in Iraq,the US needs men like
these Marines,the security of the US isn't a given,there may be a situation in our lifetimes where it's definitely about protecting US soil.

Agreed that these are courageous guys who I am grateful are willing to fight for our freedom. Shame of it is that none of us know what the heck they are fighting for over there. We are way past old b.s. that Iraq poses a threat (everyone in the world but us and the Brits apparently were unconvinced). We are simply trying to rebuild infrastructure we destroyed while turning the country upside down looking for simething that was not there. I truly feel for those guys. The mission is not worthy of their valor. Mergs -- they can use a few good men. Why not you?

Wasatch Walt
12-07-2004, 08:14 PM
This story is about courageous men not politics.

.

BS

That account is full of cheap literary devices to not describe anything approaching reality; Sweat, Fear, Anger, Panic, Hope

it is full of cr@p

the guy is a focking monomaniac BS artist.

mergs
12-07-2004, 08:27 PM
Agreed that these are courageous guys who I am grateful are willing to fight for our freedom. Shame of it is that none of us know what the heck they are fighting for over there. We are way past old b.s. that Iraq poses a threat (everyone in the world but us and the Brits apparently were unconvinced). We are simply trying to rebuild infrastructure we destroyed while turning the country upside down looking for simething that was not there. I truly feel for those guys. The mission is not worthy of their valor. Mergs -- they can use a few good men. Why not you?



I think this Marine disagrees. If you read it fully, he knows exactly why he is there, and appareantly so do his men. Luckily the ones in the meatgrinder are not as confused as some of the folks back home.

I answered gmaki once on another thread, the age requirements suck:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?postid=516055#poststop

T 3
12-07-2004, 08:45 PM
BS

That account is full of cheap literary devices to not describe anything approaching reality; Sweat, Fear, Anger, Panic, Hope

it is full of cr@p

the guy is a focking monomaniac BS artist.


Walt you yourself have posted stories about what it's like for the guys in action over there,no one said the writer was a Pulitzer Prize winner for crissakes.Yeah this story wasn't as "earthy" as the ones you've posted,but so what.

gmaki
12-07-2004, 09:40 PM
Thanks T 3. You get it. Like always.... Walt, reply, a knee-jerk reaction... I doubt he got past the third paragraph before he decided to rant... Mergs this, Mergs that... played.

Happy Chanukuh, by the way. :)

Yeah T 3 mergs would like to thank for having his back... as usual....

You big ol' centrist you.

T 3
12-07-2004, 10:10 PM
Yeah T 3 mergs would like to thank for having his back... as usual....

You big ol' centrist you.


Hi gmaki,great to see you tonight :)

I consider Mergs just one more scum bag Republican friend,I have several,it's a necessary evil around where I live.Kerry won Illinois but not my county.

Hey I'm on page 436 of Bill Clinton's biography which concerns the prep for the 2nd debate in the ' 92 campaign.Fantastic book,you might enjoy it if you have the time.( It's 957 pages)

gmaki
12-07-2004, 10:31 PM
Hi gmaki,great to see you tonight :)

I consider Mergs just one more scum bag Republican friend,I have several,it's a necessary evil around where I live.Kerry won Illinois but not my county.

Hey I'm on page 436 of Bill Clinton's biography which concerns the prep for the 2nd debate in the ' 92 campaign.Fantastic book,you might enjoy it if you have the time.( It's 957 pages)

I'm going to let you in on a little secret. I don't see Clinton as a bastion of liberalism and I don't think having once been his supporter gives you any liberal "street cred". I am kind of an "issues" guy, and don't put too much stock in party loyalty.

If you recall Clinton also bombed the hell out of a bunch of innocent people (in Yugoslavia), also based on trumped up evidence.

Not exactly my idea of liberalism, or even centrism for that matter.

Having said that I am happy for you and your 15 minutes of fame, but I don't see myself buying or reading Clinton's bio anytime soon.

Nuboy
12-08-2004, 04:13 AM
Hey Mergs,

one question.

Is there any sappy self glorifying BS you don't fall for?

.

Right, Walt, we must accept you view that anything any American has done is terrible, awful and the Americans deserve to die before anyone else.

Of course, we're all Nazi's and Commies for not hating America the way you do.

Nuboy
12-08-2004, 04:19 AM
Shame of it is that none of us know what the heck they are fighting for over there.
You can speak for yourself and Walt...but please don't speak for me.


We are way past old b.s. that Iraq poses a threat
I don't know about your "b.s." assessement but yes we are past the threat because we took it away from them.
The mission is not worthy of their valor.
Yes, and you'd be the first to denigrate them...wouldn't you?

Mergs -- they can use a few good men. Why not you?

While Mergs dares to support the troops in the field, you only go to undermine their efforts.

Nuboy
12-08-2004, 04:21 AM
Not exactly my idea of liberalism, or even centrism for that matter.

.

G-mac..I believe you're so far to the left you've finally hooked up with the far right.

Laffy
12-08-2004, 05:38 AM
I'm glad those guys are so damm good at what they do. For me the debate for war ended October 11, 2002 thru march 2003.

"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- In a major victory for the White House, the Senate early Friday voted 77-23 to authorize President Bush to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein refuses to give up weapons of mass destruction as required by U.N. resolutions.

Hours earlier, the House approved an identical resolution, 296-133"

5 months later the balloon went up and bloviation after March 2003 is counterproductive.

I think the e-mails and soldiers blogs are great. It is nice to have thier take on things from up close. Not all the news they send home is rosey, but hey war blows. Those soldiers don't ask for everyone to head down to the recruiter they only ask for support. If 15% of the county was not giving the Baath Party/AL Q hope the job would be way easier.

Satan on a stick
12-08-2004, 05:49 AM
BS

That account is full of cheap literary devices to not describe anything approaching reality; Sweat, Fear, Anger, Panic, Hope

it is full of cr@p

the guy is a focking monomaniac BS artist.

It does read like propaganda.

seenvic
12-08-2004, 07:42 AM
I don't know about your "b.s." assessement but yes we are past the threat because we took it away from them.

We are past a threat from Saddam, which may or may not have ever existed. The question I have now:

Is there more of a threat from the "rallying of the terrorists" that are now against us that may not have been actively against us before we invaded Iraq?

It basically comes down to this for me. Are we safer from a world of terrorists because of our actions in Iraq? Or not?

I don't have the answer. Just my opinion. And my opinion would be closer to Senator Fiengold's from Wisconson (good speech, thanks for posting), than to Nuboys (no disrespect to Nuboy).

gmaki
12-08-2004, 09:01 AM
G-mac..I believe you're so far to the left you've finally hooked up with the far right.

LOL :D

I understand how radical it sounds to be against dropping bombs on cities full of innocent people.

bullit71
12-08-2004, 10:08 AM
F@ck you. Do you live in the US? If you do, please, and I really mean this, please get the f@ck out of my country. You don't deserve any of the protection that these brave guys provide for you, and all you do is ***** about what they do.

Just get out. Go to Canada, Mexico, whatever. Just not here. Period.

Merg, many sincere thanks for your service, and the service of those brave men and women over there. I've never served, and feel somewhat guilty reading these kind of stories for not having served in some form for my country. But I'll be the first to buy a soldier a beer if I see him at a bar.

Also keep in mind that the vast majority of Americans support guys over there and feel the way I do, and views like Walts and other pansies on this board are in the very slim minority. Walt, you can think whatever you want, but that's the cold, hard fact.

Nuboy
12-08-2004, 10:19 AM
LOL :D

I understand how radical it sounds to be against dropping bombs on cities full of innocent people.

Like Dresden or Hiroshima?

gmaki
12-08-2004, 10:32 AM
Like Dresden or Hiroshima?

I wasn't around then and I haven't studied either case enough to feel qualified to pass judgement.

However in both case at least they were during legally declared wars against countries that had declared war on us first.

Nuboy
12-08-2004, 10:39 AM
It basically comes down to this for me. Are we safer from a world of terrorists because of our actions in Iraq? Or not?



I would say, that in light of 9/11 and all of the attacks that preceeded it, we weren't safe from terrorism in the first place.

Now the question for me is..do we fight them on their own turf or do we just sit back and let them take pot shots at us?

I think you know how I would answer that question.

Nuboy
12-08-2004, 10:41 AM
I wasn't around then and I haven't studied either case enough to feel qualified to pass judgement.

However in both case at least they were during legally declared wars against countries that had declared war on us first.


ahh...Well, then, it's all how you see things, I would suppose. How many "innocents" were in Faluja?

TrailVictim
12-08-2004, 10:41 AM
BS

That account is full of cheap literary devices to not describe anything approaching reality; Sweat, Fear, Anger, Panic, Hope

it is full of cr@p

the guy is a focking monomaniac BS artist.


Walt, you are such a *****. How dare you say how those Marine's felt. Like I said before and I'll say it again, you're a coward "Fear and Panic" would be the way you would react, but most respond with courage and honor. WHAT A LOSER!!!!

TrailVictim
12-08-2004, 10:43 AM
Walt, you are such a *****. How dare you say how those Marine's felt. Like I said before and I'll say it again, you're a coward "Fear and Panic" would be the way you would react, but most respond with courage and honor. WHAT A LOSER!!!!



***** means B/I/T/C/H

gmaki
12-08-2004, 10:47 AM
I've never served, and feel somewhat guilty reading these kind of stories for not having served in some form for my country.

and views like Walts and other pansies on this board are in the very slim minority.

You feel a little guilty about being a pansy, but not so guilty, you won't call someone else one.

Spoken like a true Republican!

gmaki
12-08-2004, 10:52 AM
ahh...Well, then, it's all how you see things, I would suppose. How many "innocents" were in Faluja?

I have no idea, especially since the US refuses to estimate the numbers of innocents we have killed.

Oh, and a little fyi, Falluja is not the only city in Iraq we have dropped bombs on. Do a Google search under "Shock and Awe." and read some of the results. Apparently it will be learning experience for you.

Glad I could be of some help.

mergs
12-08-2004, 10:58 AM
F@ck you. Do you live in the US? If you do, please, and I really mean this, please get the f@ck out of my country. You don't deserve any of the protection that these brave guys provide for you, and all you do is ***** about what they do.

Just get out. Go to Canada, Mexico, whatever. Just not here. Period.

Merg, many sincere thanks for your service, and the service of those brave men and women over there. I've never served, and feel somewhat guilty reading these kind of stories for not having served in some form for my country. But I'll be the first to buy a soldier a beer if I see him at a bar.

Also keep in mind that the vast majority of Americans support guys over there and feel the way I do, and views like Walts and other pansies on this board are in the very slim minority. Walt, you can think whatever you want, but that's the cold, hard fact.

small correction: i'm not a vet. but othere here are, such as laffy, richde, Jm. etc. (sorry guys hard to keep track of all of you) so give them the thanks.

me, i'm just an anonymous polyanna posting on a message board. when i see something of interest i post it... it just so happens that these posts tend be pro military rather than against. and walt is incorrect... its not an attempt to glorify war... its an attempt to honor those who served. God knows there's plenty of anti-military sentiment around here... I just want to be able to post an opposing viewpoint.

seenvic
12-08-2004, 11:01 AM
I would say, that in light of 9/11 and all of the attacks that preceeded it, we weren't safe from terrorism in the first place.

Now the question for me is..do we fight them on their own turf or do we just sit back and let them take pot shots at us?

I think you know how I would answer that question.

I agree with your first statement.

I am sure we are fighting SOMEONE on their turf, presently. I am less sure that in Iraq we are fighting the SOMEONES we need to be fighting (defined by the ones that took a "pot shot" at us on 9/11 and are likely to have the means to do it again). I was more comfortable that we were fighting the SOMEONES we need to be fighting in Afganistan than in Iraq.

But, I am also not sure that our actions of taking it to them "over there" has reduced the chances of another "pot shot" over here. I hope so. Just like I had no idea 9/11 was coming, I have no idea if another one is coming.

At the end of the day, I hope you are right, Nuboy.

bullit71
12-08-2004, 11:09 AM
I've calmed down since I first read this thread, so I shouldn't have used the name calling. But after reading that long letter from the front lines (Fallujah), hearing about some poor soldiers leg getting blown off (he'll never be able to know the joys of hittin' the trails on your favorite mtn bike on a crisp early morning), and trying to imagine what it must be like for these soldiers in the heat of battle - the first reply I read is Walt's saying that it's a bunch of sappy BS. Nice.

I'm not saying that you have to agree with the war, but these are men who are simply following their instructions, and they are dying over there. You want to rant and rage at the president, I don't have a problem. But if you raging at the soldiers doing their duty, and are getting maimed, crippled and dying, then that's where I draw the line.

Of course you have the right to voice those views, but I have the right to rage back. :)

See yah!

Nuboy
12-08-2004, 11:51 AM
I agree with your first statement.



Just like I had no idea 9/11 was coming, I have no idea if another one is coming.

.

Me neither...it's the nature of the war.
I would bet though it's not like they haven't been trying. They would hit us hard if they could.

Laffy
12-08-2004, 11:59 AM
They are not the citizens that stick their heads in the sand and think Islamofascism will go away. They are not the type of people that will put themselves first.

"He is a volunteer 19.6 years old, making him 6 months older than his grandfather who got drafted in to WWII, Korea, or his father who was when conscripted for Vietnam.

This young man in uniform was probably a team sports athlete in high school and graduated in the middle of the pack, making him better educated than any prior generation in our military. Unlike many of his peers, he's never drawn an unemployment check and he doesn't ever want to.

He had a job in high school in order to pay for the car that was already 10 years old. He got the car to take his girl friend on dates, and when he left for war, she promised to wait for him. She is likley to be dating another guy by the time this Iraqi war veteran returns home. When our trooper gets back, he'll call her new beau a "wimp". And she knows he's right.

About three times a week, he grabs a few minutes to write home. When the mail-bag arrives by chopper, he's hoping to get a letter from his girl and his mom, though he'll never admit to the latter. If he gets a care package from his girl or mom with razors, toothpaste, M&Ms, ....... He will share them with his squad and be hero for the day.

He has a short haircut and tight muscles, wears a 4 pound kevlar helmet and an 18 pound flak jacket to work. He can march all day in 100 degree heat with a 60 pound pack on his back. This young man in uniform knows how to use every weaponin his unit and can field strip and reassemble his own weapon in less than a minute--in the dark.

His gunney sergent or sfc has been in combat before. Yet this is the first time he and his Lt. have been shot at. Under fire he obeys orders instantly. If asked he'll always have an opinion on how to do something better. Often he is right.

By now he's has already had more responsibility and seen more suffering and death than most of his civilian contemporaries will see in their lifetimes.

When he gets home, he won't talk much about the horror of war and probably won't have PTSD, but he will want more fresh milk, salads, and homemade cookies than anyone thought possible. When he goes to a ball game or a formal event, he'll resent those who carelessly ignore the national anthemwhen it's played or don't join in when the pledge of allegiance is recited. He'll put his hand over his heart, gaze at the American flag, and sing or recite proudly and loudly.
Oliver North

gonzostrike
12-08-2004, 05:41 PM
oh thge COURAGE of being armed and ordered to kill "insurgents" just to force a US-friendly puppet regime in Iraq, and to protect a US-plutocrat-enriching petrohandling construction K for HalliburtonCheneyBushCorp.

yep, "freedom isn't free" -- it costs about as much as the dumb shytes dying for cheap oil, plutocracy and illusory "freedom" notions including golden carrots, "retirement" and "affluence."

ditchdiver56
12-08-2004, 10:46 PM
oh thge COURAGE of being armed and ordered to kill "insurgents" just to force a US-friendly puppet regime in Iraq, and to protect a US-plutocrat-enriching petrohandling construction K for HalliburtonCheneyBushCorp.

yep, "freedom isn't free" -- it costs about as much as the dumb shytes dying for cheap oil, plutocracy and illusory "freedom" notions including golden carrots, "retirement" and "affluence."


Actually, I think it's the courage to stare death in the eye and make death blink first.
Did anyone ever tell you you're a bit of a pessimist?

PetPervePete
12-09-2004, 05:55 AM
I would say, that in light of 9/11 and all of the attacks that preceeded it, we weren't safe from terrorism in the first place.

Now the question for me is..do we fight them on their own turf or do we just sit back and let them take pot shots at us?

I think you know how I would answer that question.

They're taking pot shots at us BECAUSE we're on their turf. How many terrorist attacks happened BEFORE we started stationing troops in the middle east?
You think the terrorists hate us because of the freedom we enjoy? Newsflash: We've had our freedoms for over 200 years. You think they just woke up one day and said,
"Hey, those Americans have freedom of religion and the bill of rights.That's an insult to Islam. We must attack!"
How would you react if Iran started stationing troops in YOUR hometown.

Nuboy
12-09-2004, 07:43 AM
They're taking pot shots at us BECAUSE we're on their turf. How many terrorist attacks happened BEFORE we started stationing troops in the middle east?
You think the terrorists hate us because of the freedom we enjoy? Newsflash: We've had our freedoms for over 200 years. You think they just woke up one day and said,
"Hey, those Americans have freedom of religion and the bill of rights.That's an insult to Islam. We must attack!"
How would you react if Iran started stationing troops in YOUR hometown.

Well, Petey, since you brought up the last 200 years. Weren't those people siezing ships and their crews back in 1804, holding the crews hostage and demanding ransom? The Eruos, true to form, kind of buckled, and paid the ransom. If I recall from my history, President Jefferson used the Marines and put a stop to it.

To answer your question, yes, I do think they consider our freedom an insult. I would bet if you made the same statement on the Hesbola.com message board, some of those wonderful people would be paying you a visit and chopping off your head with a dull knife.

mergs
12-09-2004, 07:54 AM
From the halls of Montezuma, to the shores of Tripoli
We will fight our country's battles....

gonzostrike
12-09-2004, 10:18 AM
the redneck, "kill 'em all" attitude of some of you folks scares me. perhaps you should form your own Police State with National ID, policies of interrogation a la Abu Ghraib, invasion of lands when they have something you want, accusations of terrorism when YOU are the terrorist, along with all the Newspeak that comes with such silly little-boys-playing-war-in-the-woods nonsense.

pathetic. you call yourselves "humans"?

moonraker
12-09-2004, 10:25 AM
Anyone here have a clue about the fact that war is political in nature. Wars are ultimatly judged by the political outcomes. The confusion stems right from the incompetent Sec. of Defense himself. Here in Falujah round 2, a supposed mighty military victory was scored. But was it a political victory? Not by any stretch of the imagination. The more Iraqi people the marines kill, the more their surviving friends and reletives will fight to rid thier land of the foreign invaders. It is no wonder that we have already lost this war....it's like Vietnam all over again. With generals saying "if we only had more troops, we could behold victory". All the while the figures of 5 Iraqi's killed and only 1 american make it look like the US is winning. But the political outcome is one of complete failure.
I support our troops. I don't want any harm to happen to them. I want them all back home now. On the other hand, I can not blame the Iraqi people for trying to expell a foreign invader.

Laffy
12-10-2004, 05:49 AM
Nuboy
Well, Petey, since you brought up the last 200 years. Weren't those people siezing ships and their crews back in 1804, holding the crews hostage and demanding ransom? The Eruos, true to form, kind of buckled, and paid the ransom. If I recall from my history, President Jefferson used the Marines and put a stop to it.

Jefferson, "Millions to defence and not one cent to ransom" or something like that when talking about the Barbary Pirates. Ansectors of Mormar Kadafi.


Gonzostrike
the redneck, "kill 'em all" attitude of some of you folks scares me. perhaps you should form your own Police State with National ID, policies of interrogation a la Abu Ghraib, invasion of lands when they have something you want, accusations of terrorism when YOU are the terrorist, along with all the Newspeak that comes with such silly little-boys-playing-war-in-the-woods nonsense.

I don't think I have seen the same posts or war as you. "kill 'em all" would be 20 B-52s at 0300 followed by marines smoking everything still standing. Not the, "we are going to attack next week if you don't give up your car bombings, beheadings, police station raids. If your not a scumbag please leave the city." Instead of B-52s those marines and soldiers go toe to toe with nut cases to lessen the collateral dammage. Those guys don't want your shallow support. To them their mission is to make Iraq a nice place to live for the 25million people that aren't Baathists or AL Q. You don't support that? Talk support of the troops in this thread, but then post pictures of hurt kids in another. I'll take the liberty to speak for my brothers in their absence; Take your bull$hit support and shove it! Not supporting the mission is leaving them out in the breeze and costing lives. You keep giving very mean people hope and with that hope they can recruit more. "Hey get in on the ground floor all we have to do is send the Yanks packing. You could be the next Uday or Qusay."

mergs
12-10-2004, 06:10 AM
the redneck, "kill 'em all" attitude of some of you folks scares me. perhaps you should form your own Police State with National ID, policies of interrogation a la Abu Ghraib, invasion of lands when they have something you want, accusations of terrorism when YOU are the terrorist, along with all the Newspeak that comes with such silly little-boys-playing-war-in-the-woods nonsense.

pathetic. you call yourselves "humans"?

calm yourself... youre starting to frighten me.