yoski, I'm gonna get my frame in a few and need to get a stem asap

what I want is the salsa stem or a custom steel stem but am worried about the ride with an h-bar

setup will be with a rigid KM fork and 130mm x 10 or 15 rise

I would go with a Thomson but I don't really like the way they look on steel frames since they're so big...I prefer the old time look of steel with steel...gay, I know *not that there's anything wrong with that

I was thinking
a) the steel would be a welcome flex with the rigid
b) the SUL system of the salsa would prevent some flex
c) a custom builder could make a stiff stem for use with them

or should I say F' it and get the thomson? I do have a Thomson post

Make sure that the stem has a strong bar clamp. You want 4 bolts to keep the bar from twisting in the clamp. As far as flex goes: the bars have flex designed into them (if they are the Ti models) I can actually feel it on my rigid KM. Jeff flattens the 1 inch tubing at the ends to meet the 7/8" tubing of the cross bars. This acts as a flex point. I had an aluminium riser on my KM before this and my hands would bounce off the bar on choppy downhills. With the H-Bar it is much smoother.

Moto

it's only a 2 bolt clamp on the salsa but maybe the SUL system would help, maybe it's just a gimmick...that's working?

2 bolts 4 bolts, does it REALLY matter? Personally I think its hype. I've never had a problem w/2 bolt stems, or 1 bolts stems for that matter. Much less 4 bolts. What about 3? will the odd number throw everything off? oh crap!

Seriously though, I've got a SUL on my crosser, and it works fantastically well. My bras don't rotate. And that's what you want out of a stem, right?

it's only a 2 bolt clamp on the salsa but maybe the SUL system would help, maybe it's just a gimmick...that's working?

What is S.U.L. technology? Flip floppable clamp face or something like that? It really has to do with the clamp area. A 4 bolt clamp just holds the bar tighter. You don't want the bar rotating in the clamp when you land off a drop or jump. I know that Jeff recommends a 4-bolt clamp. And, he specifically mentions a Thomson.

Moto

My bras don't rotate.

Try more shoulder movement. That's what the gals at the strip bar do, anyway!
:p

the los

yoski, I'm gonna get my frame in a few and need to get a stem asap

what I want is the salsa stem or a custom steel stem but am worried about the ride with an h-bar

setup will be with a rigid KM fork and 130mm x 10 or 15 rise

I would go with a Thomson but I don't really like the way they look on steel frames since they're so big...I prefer the old time look of steel with steel...gay, I know *not that there's anything wrong with that

I was thinking
a) the steel would be a welcome flex with the rigid
b) the SUL system of the salsa would prevent some flex
c) a custom builder could make a stiff stem for use with them

or should I say F' it and get the thomson? I do have a Thomson post

Theyre a little porky but their stiffness makes up for it all. Im using one with a easton monkey XC and its da chit mang. Another thing to keep in mind is that alot of the stiffmness of the stem is due to its clamp size (welded area) which are pretty tall.

yeah I didn't think it would make a difference, I have a 2 bolt specialized stem on my cruiser with huge crusier bars and it's held up fine...I think I'll just go with the salsa.

I run an h-bar with the raceface stem (two bolt) although I do not have a problem with it I do seen the advantage of a 4 bolt stem such as the thomson. I can feel the flex of the stem when I am really on the ends of my h-bar.


sidenote....I love the bar

If you don't go off any drops larger than a foot or so, a two bolt stem would work just fine. If you go bigger than that (and I do, with the same KM rigid fork) you will appreciate the feeling of having your bars stay in the same position with the 4 bolt stem. With the 2 bolt you can use the bar rotation as a form of suspension, but it gets hard to steer after the landing...personal experience. ;)

bike ON
bob

Steel salso stems have been discontinued. I'd look for one quick, as they're drying up.

B

anyone know what the effective length of a 135mm x 15 rise would be as compared to 135mm x 10 or 120 x 15 vs. 120 x 10?

how does rise affect reach?

I am running my HBars on a Syntance F99 :eek:

Should I change it out?! :D

However, it is only temporary while I wait... and wait... and wait... for something special.

Now this study is on road stems but you've gotta assume it's the same as far as stiffness. Check out the whole freakin' thing at

http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/index.htm

Click "Results and Discussion" then the "Analysis and Summary" and read the "Stiffness" section.


or if you just want the good stuff...


"It should also be clear that bar bolt pattern has no material affect on stiffness.* For example, it is a common belief that a four bolt pattern will be stiffer than a one or two-bolt pattern.* The TTT Forgie lays this notion to bed.* The Forgie uses a two bolt pattern, yet has the highest stiffness measured.** Of course, the high stiffness of the Forgie is a function of the large diameter of the extension tube."



It's pretty cool, they took all of these stems and really put the wood to 'em then charted everything-way more information that you wanted to know.

anyone know what the effective length of a 135mm x 15 rise would be as compared to 135mm x 10 or 120 x 15 vs. 120 x 10?

how does rise affect reach?

SOHCAHTOA can figure it out.

thanks for that!

that was a great read although I wish they would have tested a steel stem that was welded as well.

now, can anyone help me on my stem sizing question?

I'm trying to duplicate a total cockpit length of 29.33070866 inches or 745.000001 mm (25 inch top tube with 110mm stem @ 6 degree rise)

with my H-Bar and am having a hard time coming up with the right numbers I know it should be a 120 or 130 rise by 5 or 15 but don't know which combo

SOHCAHTOA can figure it out.

haha, what's that

thanks for that!

that was a great read although I wish they would have tested a steel stem that was welded as well.

now, can anyone help me on my stem sizing question?

I'm trying to duplicate a total cockpit length of 29.33070866 inches or 745.000001 mm (25 inch top tube with 110mm stem @ 6 degree rise)

with my H-Bar and am having a hard time coming up with the right numbers I know it should be a 120 or 130 rise by 5 or 15 but don't know which combo

I don't think there is a hard and fast rule on a conversion from straight bars to an h-bar. On Jeff's site he recommends I think 20mm in length and maybe a bit of rise? I'd probably set it up with some crappy stems first to get your length and rise right, then worry about finding a salsa somewhere..

FWIW, in my h-bar days, I went with a stem 15mm longer and 10 degrees higher.

B

haha, what's that

Remember your trigonometry? I'd do it for you, but I'm eating my lunch right now.

thanks for that!

that was a great read although I wish they would have tested a steel stem that was welded as well.

now, can anyone help me on my stem sizing question?

I'm trying to duplicate a total cockpit length of 29.33070866 inches or 745.000001 mm (25 inch top tube with 110mm stem @ 6 degree rise)

with my H-Bar and am having a hard time coming up with the right numbers I know it should be a 120 or 130 rise by 5 or 15 but don't know which combo

I have 130mmX15 degree on mine, It works beautifully, I actually bought a $20 stem to try it out before hand. I like the higher position. I started with a 120mmX5 degree rise. The higher position allows me to get some weight off of the wrists (especially helpful with rigid)

thanks for that!

that was a great read although I wish they would have tested a steel stem that was welded as well.

now, can anyone help me on my stem sizing question?

I'm trying to duplicate a total cockpit length of 29.33070866 inches or 745.000001 mm (25 inch top tube with 110mm stem @ 6 degree rise)

with my H-Bar and am having a hard time coming up with the right numbers I know it should be a 120 or 130 rise by 5 or 15 but don't know which combo

Oh yeah, Jeff has that adjustable stem for rent, so you can dial in exactly which rise/reach feels best.

anyone know what the effective length of a 135mm x 15 rise would be as compared to 135mm x 10 or 120 x 15 vs. 120 x 10?

how does rise affect reach?
coupla screen shots from an excel spreadsheet for ya on stem comparisons. pm me if'n you want it... I believe I got it from naestep/speeddub nate coupla years back. sorry if the credit goes to someone else.
Serge

Sin, cosin, tangent to what

But I can draw in CAD like a demon
[IMG]

From 0
120 10 deg = 4 1/8”
135 10 deg = 4 21/32”
120 15 deg = 3 59/64”
135 15 deg = 4 13/32”

I went 20mm longer and 10 deg. Up from a flat Salsa bar to a Jones bar

I've been running an SUL w/ the H-bars for over a year. Works great.