(before I get flamed on this, yes I know there are "threaded" and "hybrid" views as well, BUT THEY SUCK!).

In general, MTBR is like a large room full of people in groups having conversations within those groups. Thee are also smaller groups within the larger ones having side conversations.

The so called "flat view" format is like having a chronological transcript of a room full of people in groups having conversations. The transcript logs statements by each person in the room in the order in which they are spoken. There is no correlation given between various statements as they are logged. In order to follow a conversation, a statement must ether reference the statement it is replying to, or you have to figure it out by the content of the statement. Most of the time this can be done, but it is not a very efficient way to follow the flow of the various conversations in the room.

The "treaded view" gives a visual representation of the hierarchy of conversations on the room and makes it very easy to determine which people are talking to each other and interpret the flow of those conversations.

I think much of the success of MTBR has been due to the ease of communication due to format of their forums. There are some hooks in the new board for the threaded view, but the implementation is horrible. Using the "threaded view" is like trying to read a book through a soda straw. Approximately 8 lines are given in a scrolling box to view the treads.

I know MTBR did not write the vBulletin software, but you are allowed to modify the code under the vBulletin license agreement. I think a few relatively simple modifications could greatly enhace the "threaded view" experience. Namely, put the current message text at the top of the page with the threaded view below it and allow the threaded view to render in it's entirety, not in a scrolling text box.

This is meant to be constructive feedback for the MTBR staff, not a flame job.

Dave L.

Completely agree. The new format is way too cumbersome for a quick scan, so it discourages a quickly developing thread, and fatally subordinates brilliant replies that are more interesting than the top level post in a thread. In the old forum, a great reply generates lots of sub replies, begging a look at that level of the thread. In the new format, that is lost.

Part of that feature would be restored if posts in the threaded window were color coded for viewed and not-viewed by the user.

AND, you can't see when members you always read posts by are in the thread unless you dig into each thread, or use the more tedious and disorganized search by member routine.

you are so right....

I like a lot of the features about the new format, but I miss the old threaded view, for exactly the reasons stated above. Hopefully I'll adjust eventually.

I like the fact that with the old system, you can look at a much larger amount of information at once, and also decide whether or not to look at a thread based on the replys, rather than just "guessing" like it is now.

I think most of these upgrades are simply upgrades for the sake of it, 95% of the users will not use all these extra functions, and it alienates a lot of people. MTBR seems to be the most popular MTB site, hands down, and to that extent you have to taylor the site to those ideas, that you need to be able to process more information, posting that doesn't require registartion, and overal just simpler. Some may argue that now with all these pre-packaged tags and smiley faces or whatever that it's "simpler", but I don't think so, the layout can not support as much information at once, there's "distractors"(I keep seeing that I should buy a Truth on the right side), and overall it seems more "cluttered" to me with non-information related stuff.

I agree to...is there anything we can modify in our profiles to make it easier/better?

Kirk "to lazy to look right now" Metz

Don't be bashful. Use reply with quote often, and edit the quote if necessary. Makes it much easier to follow.

I hated the old threaded view. I like new posts where I can find them, not somewhere in the middle of a bunch of old posts.

I agree to...is there anything we can modify in our profiles to make it easier/better?

Kirk "to lazy to look right now" Metz


You can click on these to change to the the view to "threaded view", but as I said before it's like reading a book through a soda straw.

There's also some options in your user setup.

Don't be bashful. Use reply with quote often, and edit the quote if necessary. Makes it much easier to follow.

I hated the old threaded view. I like new posts where I can find them, not somewhere in the middle of a bunch of old posts.

Unless everyone.....
quotes the full subthread......
it only helps to tell.......
whom you are directly replying to........
If everyone fully quotes......
the previous reply.....
a lot of space is wasted.......
in the forum

EDIT: ....and aparently there's a limitation to this

EDIT: ....and aparently there's a limitation to this
Wow. That looks like it was hard to do.... ;)

Good lord, whattabunchawhiners!!

Seriously, I like the new format. Do you luddites hate the metric system too?

Oi.

Kn.

Try "Hybrid" or "Threaded"

In the new format if you open an individual's topic post within a forum there is an icon at the top-right for “Linear”, "Hybrid", and “Threaded”. The "Hybrid" and “Threaded” views open up all the posts under one original post within a forum, like a subset of this old forum view. "Hybrid" also opens the cascaded treads and the whole postings. I think it then defaults to that cascade Threaded or Hybrid view afterwards when you are logged in. I have to play with it more. If that feature could be moved up to default at the Forum view, then the opening page view would be as robust as the old format.

After setting the Hybrid or Thread to the cascade view default, you must click on each new thread post listed under the Forum's topic to see everyone who's posted under the each post. This may not be so bad.

- ray

Good lord, whattabunchawhiners!!

Seriously, I like the new format. Do you luddites hate the metric system too?

Oi.

Kn.

Well Duh. of course we do. That's why we still use inches, feet, yards, miles and let's not forget pound for force AND for mass just to complicate things!

I actually don't mind the new format too much but I do miss seeing which messages I've already read being highlighted in a different color.

Michael

In order to follow a conversation, a statement must ether reference the statement it is replying to, or you have to figure it out by the content of the statement. Most of the time this can be done, but it is not a very efficient way to follow the flow of the various conversations in the room.I still have a hard time understanding how people can say this is hard on "not very efficient."

The "treaded view" gives a visual representation of the hierarchy of conversations on the room and makes it very easy to determine which people are talking to each other and interpret the flow of those conversations. This was my number 1 complaint on the old forum. I noticed that some people were ignored that were not part of the "inner circle" (as found in Passion) or were new to MTBR. I would notice topics go unread until some "well known" member made comment. This new system forces everyone to read the main topic no matter who posted a comment to it. You must admit, there is some truth to my observation (however small that may be).

I think much of the success of MTBR has been due to the ease of communication due to format of their forums.I think you need to give MTBR more credit :) Personally, I come here for the cool banners :D

I know MTBR did not write the vBulletin software, but you are allowed to modify the code under the vBulletin license agreement. I think a few relatively simple modifications could greatly enhace the "threaded view" experience.Changing small things like content info is easy, however, altering the way topics are arranged (and most other stuff) requires fresh PHP coding (within modules). Doing this can have very negative effects on how a site runs because PHP exploits are too common and not easily found (ie. debugged). Screwing up a PHP scripts scares me more than screwing up a CGI (Perl) script.

Bottom line is, this is all moot since MTBR will proceed and the majority of users having a hard time will need to learn something new. Look at it this way, once you figure out how this works you will be ready for almost any "forum" on the net ;)

PS. Betamax was a better recorder but VHS still won out :)

Good lord, whattabunchawhiners!!

Seriously, I like the new format. Do you luddites hate the metric system too?

Oi.

Kn.


Ditto

I have had alot of expierience with these types of boards before I came to MTBR.com. The first time I saw the old forums I thought "Yuck, these are so outdated." It might take some time to adjust but in the end i think you will like it better.

The "treaded view" gives a visual representation of the hierarchy of conversations on the room and makes it very easy to determine which people are talking to each other and interpret the flow of those conversations..
That's great for a thread overview. Except if you don't want to spend all day clicking on each reply and use the "view all" feature, then it looks like this board. Except then you can't distinguish which replays mate with each other and it reads like nonsense. I prefer this mode, forces people to quote posts they are referring to and makes it more readable in the end. YMMV.

Changing small things like content info is easy, however, altering the way topics are arranged (and most other stuff) requires fresh PHP coding (within modules). Doing this can have very negative effects on how a site runs because PHP exploits are too common and not easily found (ie. debugged). Screwing up a PHP scripts scares me more than screwing up a CGI (Perl) script.


There are some hooks in the new board for the threaded view, but the implementation is horrible. Using the "threaded view" is like trying to read a book through a soda straw. Approximately 8 lines are given in a scrolling box to view the treads.

Actually, the couple of sugestions I made are pretty minimal and are not in the "structural" part of the vBulletin code. All the code is already there for the threaded view, its just that the page layout for the threaded view is horrible. One of the changes is a matter of changing a page template to show the mesage first, then the thread tree, the other is likely a parameter change in their "clientscript/postlist.js" script to tell the thread tree to render fully instead of in a scroll box.

These changes are pretty small and would go a looooong way toward pacifying people that prefer the threaded view.

New Hotness .... 'flat view'

Old and Busted ... 'threaded view'

george 'old hotness'

Ditto

I have had alot of expierience with these types of boards before I came to MTBR.com. The first time I saw the old forums I thought "Yuck, these are so outdated." It might take some time to adjust but in the end i think you will like it better.

I'm quite the opposite...I also had a lot of experience with these types of boards before, and the reason I spent most of my time on MTBR was because of the simpler format with fewer geegaws.

and the reason I spent most of my time on MTBR was because of the simpler format with fewer geegaws.I bet you ride a SS for the same reasons. If not, you should ;)

Good lord, whattabunchawhiners!!

Seriously, I like the new format. Do you luddites hate the metric system too?

Oi.

Kn.

Well Thank god I am not the only K'Endo....

I completely respect others views on the new forums but I still believe it is just a matter of getting used to this new style of forum. As said in another post on the old board, when old MTBR moved to the now old forum many people resisted or disliked the change, but after a settling in period everyone was happy. I suspect it will be same here.

Trevor!

(Edit: I still like the old layout, but we have this now!)

I admit, I do like the new stuff. There is one glaring change I don't like though. Changing color on visited links goes a LOOOONG ways assisting me in which threads I want to visit. relying on memory is gonna get hard after a while, especailly when an old thread gets bumped up into the new threads.

I was always using the "view all" in the old format, so this new one isn't much of a stretch for me. While I agree with you that it's nice to see "who said what to who", I just don't have the time to individually click on each post. I really like the hybrid mode. I can get an idea of what was said where, and quickly the corresponding post.

You fellers are just gonna have to change your viewing habits.

B

Good lord, whattabunchawhiners!!

Seriously, I like the new format. Do you luddites hate the metric system too?

Oi.

Kn.


Whiners - people who have an opinion that you don't agree with.

Constructive Critics - people who have an opinion that you do agree with.

Give it a chance. There was no way Francois, et al could continue to maintain the old
boutique forum and remain sane.

The only advantage of the "flat view" is at least we don't have to see any posts saying, "What does NM mean?"

Otherwise, I much prefer the threaded view at the forum level and the ability to see which posts were already viewed (if you were logged in). BUUUTTTT, it's not up to me so who cares what I think.