I was looking into setting up a 5 Spot with either a Nixon Platinum or the Maverick DUC-32. Any feedback on which is a better fit for the 'Spot?

Thanks

2 things to keep in mind:

1) Read up on the Nixon tire clearance issues

2) Maverick DUC forks require a very expensive machined (instead of forged) top crown to work with an XL 5-Spot.

We have had a friend who owns a machine shop, make us some "adapters" for any regular 20mm thru axle hub. We are in the process of testing these, to see if they hold up, and how they can and can't be used. So far, they seem no different than a Maverick hub, but its only been a few days. Also, Chris King has shipped us their 20mm hub with 24mm adapter, so we can take a look at that one, and build some wheels with it, testing the Maverick hub, the CK hub, and all regular 20mm hubs, to see if there is much of a difference.

Why am I telling you this? Well, to make sure that you are aware that there are more hub choices, and more options now, than before with the Maverick DUC32. Also in the process of testing the Nixon, which seems to be a great fork, but I had a bit of a tough time on a night ride a few nights back, getting it back up to full extension. See, when you get to the top of a hill, and want to bring it back up to full extension, you push the button, and pull back on the bars. Quite easy, actually, when you can see where your front wheel is landing. Not so, sometimes, when you can't. First time I tried to use it on a night ride, I didn't pay any attention to where that front wheel was comming back down, and ended up washing out.

After the Nixons get done with the recall mod, they will be 520mm tall axle to crown. The Mav is already pushing what works well on the Spot at 518mm. I think the Nixon as originally shipped was just about the fork to beat on a Spot when it was still 510, but now I'm not so sure. I never worried about the A-C of the Nixon on my XCE, and I guess it still is not a huge issue if you run the IT model, but the real coup to the fork was how low it was for a given travel setting.

After riding two different Mav forks at the IBike dirt demo, I again came away somewhat unimpressed with them. They are fine forks and do some very impressive stuff in terms of weight and such, but I guess I simply don't care for their overall ride that much. I talked to Casey and Dave at the Turner booth and they said they ran the Mav for a bit to see if they wanted to ok its use on the Spot and they did not like it much either. I think that Crash and Ventanarama may agree with me that they were not the standout forks among those we tested at IBike.

The nicest straight-up 5" fork was the 05 Talas. As long as you run the rebound fairly fast so it does not pack-down, it was the smoothest fork I tried. I did not like the action of any of the (many) 05 Float forks I tried. A bit harsh, and no matter the air pressure, they never got full travel (an oil height issue perhaps).

The only Minute (2:00) we tried was just totally defective and felt like crap. Interestingly, it matched the horrible rear end of the Intense 5.5 which sported a Swinger 4-way air. Even at less than 30psi SPV pressure on the Swinger, the rear end of the 5.5 was very harsh. This was in total contrast to the excellent bump compliance I felt when demoing a Spider with a non-propedal AVA last winter. I lay all the blame on the Swinger. Something was just not right there.

On the taller forks front, the Zoke AM1, Fox 36, and Nixon were vying for top spots. Each had its own strengths in application.

Hey TS,

what would you think would work best on a 6-pack setup for aggreso trailride/light FR?

I'm thinking I'll use the old Z150 until the Fox 36 is released & then give that a shot. Nixon is a possiblity but I'm leery of any product that is defective from the get-go. All Mountain is out cause no thru-axle. Could look at a 66. I've tried 2 Mavs and I like the stiffness but I wasn't too impressed with the damping, although both weren't optimized for my weight.

On the taller forks front, the Zoke AM1, Fox 36, and Nixon were vying for top spots. Each had its own strengths in application.
Hey TS...did you get a chance to try the Pike Air?

Thanks for the reviews...really helpful for us in the market for new forks!

I think that Crash and Ventanarama may agree with me that they were not the standout forks among those we tested at IBike.
I think tscheezy summed it up well. They just didn't stand out from the crowd, but maybe it was because they were on the Maverick frames, a ML7 & ML8, which after riding I just couldn't understand why somebody would want to ride one of those, but that's another story.

As far as the 66, we rode a bike, I can't remember which, that was outfitted with one and it was nice (stiff 'n plush), but IMO I think it would be too much fork for the 6 Pack, it's AtoC takes it out of the running anyway, too tall, and the Mav's is too short. Personally I think the more viable options are the Marz AM or Z1 series or Fox's 36. I believe that tscheezy was more impressed with the AM1 and all the adjustments while I'd opt for the 36.

As far as the Pike air, I don't remember one, but the Rock Shock offerings we did ride left us unimpressed or down right disappointed.

One look at the batterred lowers on my Z150 makes me think the inverted maverick would last about 3 months before the stanchions or drop-outs were seriously damaged.

One question I have, can anybody who's ridden both the Fox36 and a Z150 provide a comparison? I was initially attracted by the idea of dropping weight with the fox36, but now I'm thinking that 1lb isn't so bad considering the Z150 has coil springs and durable, smooth steel stanchions.

Or, does the fox36 offer significant performance improvements?

I think tscheezy summed it up well. They just didn't stand out from the crowd, but maybe it was because they were on the Maverick frames, a ML7 & ML8, which after riding I just couldn't understand why somebody would want to ride one of those, but that's another story.

As far as the 66, we rode a bike, I can't remember which, that was outfitted with one and it was nice (stiff 'n plush), but IMO I think it would be too much fork for the 6 Pack, it's AtoC takes it out of the running anyway, too tall, and the Mav's is too short. Personally I think the more viable options are the Marz AM or Z1 series or Fox's 36. I believe that tscheezy was more impressed with the AM1 and all the adjustments while I'd opt for the 36.

As far as the Pike air, I don't remember one, but the Rock Shock offerings we did ride left us unimpressed or down right disappointed.

FM,

I can't provide you with the comparison, but I think the weight difference is closer to 2 pounds. The Fox 36 is claimed to be under 5# and I'm fairly certain the Z150 is over 7#.

This is what the supplier of my new Nixon told me yesterday just as they shipped the fork


"There was a recall on the Nixon. I got you a fork after the recall so Manitou had already re-worked it so it is fine. The travel on the fork is now at 137mm and they are going to be producing a self-service kit that will bring it up to the 145mm mark. That kit will be available in about a month."

That works out at just over five and a half inches of travel until the kit is installed.

I have a 2004 Z150, it was 6.2lbs un-cut with all the QR20 bits and axle. Some people pull the coil sping and run air pre-load instead, which supposedly drops the weight below 6lbs.

The 2003's were avainalable only with a steel steerer tube, those were 7lbs+.

Anyways, I'm very happy with my Z150 but like everybody else, I get upgradisitis right around interbike!!


FM,

I can't provide you with the comparison, but I think the weight difference is closer to 2 pounds. The Fox 36 is claimed to be under 5# and I'm fairly certain the Z150 is over 7#.

That explains it. I may be using the '03 with the steel steerer. It weighs a ton but is just the most buttery smooth fork I've ever ridden and plenty stiff for me.

Upgradeitis is my middle name and the only cure I know is Newbikeitis.

Ultimate thru-axle fork for a 6-pack will be the Fox 36. I personally would consider an AM1, but that is sans thru-axle (one of the reasons I would lean towards it). The Nixon will end up being 520mm tall, which may also be a good fork, but perhaps even a touch short overall for the Pack. The AM1 will range from 538-518mm depending on where you set the travel adjust (which worked wonderfully!).

You are gonna dig the 6-Pack. That's a fact, Jack.

Ultimate thru-axle fork for a 6-pack will be the Fox 36. I personally would consider an AM1, but that is sans thru-axle (one of the reasons I would lean towards it). The Nixon will end up being 520mm tall, which may also be a good fork, but perhaps even a touch short overall for the Pack. The AM1 will range from 538-518mm depending on where you set the travel adjust (which worked wonderfully!).

You are gonna dig the 6-Pack. That's a fact, Jack.

I guess if you were doing the 'pack up as more of a long travel plush trailbike with a RP3, the shorter A-C of the Nixon or DUC might be an advantage. I am torn between doing the 'pack as an all around bike and selling the 'spot, or keeping the 'spot and going with the 'pack as a full on heavier freeride setup. :confused: I would think the 05 Z1FR would be perfect for that application. Then with the same wheelset you could throw on a used super-T and hit the downhill trails at Bootleg, or take a trip to Whistler. You would still have a bike that could be pedalled uphill (just slowly).
I thought the build of the 6-pack for Interbike looked a little schizophrenic, must have been made from parts the Turner guys had lying around the office.
Of course there is the highline (when its ready) but I really dont want to die just yet......

That's the beauty of the Fox 36 or other adjustable travel fork. The front travel can be dropped down for climbing & raised for bombing and at less than 5# it won't weigh the bike down.

FWIW, the consesus so far is wait for the Fox 36. That opinion is shared by Casey from Turner, TS, Larry Mettler, Crash & Shanedawg so that's what I'll likely do.

Or is that not out yet?

Man I can help you out with this one!

keep your 5-spot and build you 6-pack up burly! These bikes are built for serious action, don't shortsheet them with light tires, narrow bars, and a too-short fork. My RFX started out much lighter than it is now, there's no going back to lighter parts, it was very obvious the frame was capable of much more.

For the rides that don't require 38lbs of 6" love, ride your 5-spot. You're bound to ride it much harder than you did pre-6pack. I ride my hardtail lots now for this reason, but there's no escaping that the RFX has made me a much better rider regardless of which bike I happen to choose for a given ride.

. I am torn between doing the 'pack as an all around bike and selling the 'spot, or keeping the 'spot and going with the 'pack as a full on heavier freeride setup. :confused: I would think the 05 Z1FR would be perfect for that application. Then with the same wheelset you could throw on a used super-T and hit the downhill trails at Bootleg, or take a trip to Whistler. You would still have a bike that could be pedalled uphill (just slowly).
.....

Can the Fox 36 go on a 5spot or is it completely the wrong kinda fork?

Was thinking about a Mav but after reading this post it doesn't sound so hot..may go back to look at the Talas again as I fancy the adjustable travel for some of the singletrack round here but then again a Vanilla would probably suffice...

Or is that not out yet?
Neither the tech I talked to at iBike nor the one I talked to on the phone yesterday knew what the AtoC of the 36 was. The tech yesterday indicated that all the forks that we've seen thus far are prototypes and that slight changes may be made, and we can expect to see the aftermarket 36 hit the street sometime in January.

The 36 is too long for the Spot. The Maverick is great if you like the combination of low weight, long travel and lateral/torsional stiffness, but some evidently feel that the quality of the travel could be better. I've spent a fair bit of time on an '04 TALAS (on a Moots Smoothie, geometry works best right around 100mm) and on the DUC 32 on an ML-7. With those two bikes and those two settings it is more difficult to do a direct comparison because the extra 50mm travel without any weight or stiffness penalty is just an overwhelming difference, even if I have absolutely no complaints about the performance of the TALAS.

I'd like to be able to do a direct comparison of a range of forks with similar A to C measurements on the same platforms (appropriate to each application) on the same trails on the same day. Standardize the tires, pressures, rims, frames, stems (when possible) and bars. Let factory reps tune each fork for each rider weight and record the settings used. Maybe even start with the forks masked somehow so that the rider doesn't see what he/she is on for the first lap of the course (no on-the-fly adjustments for that lap) so that they can form an opinion with minimal preconceived notions.

I say this because to a certain extent I already know what I'm going to think about a SID or a Float or a Marathon or a DUC before I even ride the thing based on previous experience. My own preconceived notions make it more difficult for me to be completely impartial, and as a result I don't expect any other tester to be completely immune from their own form of bias when they test forks.

Of course, I think the Turner range of frames would be ideal for such a comprehensive test because they have such a consistancy across such a wide range of applications.

What I'm most interested in trying on the 5-Spot are the ´05 Vanilla, TALAS, Nixon and DUC side by side.

Man I can help you out with this one!

keep your 5-spot and build you 6-pack up burly!
I'm thinking something along the lines of 6 Pack and the Flux :D .

I hope that's case because it would perfectly coinicide with the Pack release.

I hope that's case because it would perfectly coinicide with the Pack release.
Hey Squeaky, you thinkin' what I'm thinkin'... a white Pack with a black 36? Hot damn that bikes going to be hot!

That's the fact Jack.
Larry ordered me up one at I-bike.

Only decision now is which color I'm gonna do the King Bling. Debating between blue & gold, or maybe both since I'm a Michigan Wolverine alum. :)
Black would be too monochromatic.

What I'm most interested in trying on the 5-Spot are the ´05 Vanilla, TALAS, Nixon and DUC side by side.

Would be nice, pretty much the same range of forks I am trying to find out about...

Only decision now is which color I'm gonna do the King Bling. Debating between blue & gold, or maybe both since I'm a Michigan Wolverine alum. :) Black would be too monochromatic.
The Poofta in me would say "Go Blue". It would accent the Fox on the 36 and the DHX badging nicely.

The 36 is too long for the Spot. .

4" of travel is too much for the 5 spot?

I hear ya.
If I'm gonna spend the ching, then I'm gotta have the bling.

4" of travel is too much for the 5 spot?

I was thinking more in terms of axle to crown length than the minimum amount of adjustable travel available. I wouldn't recommend to somebody who needed the length of a typical 80mm fork that they purchase a TALAS because the ability to adjust up to 125-130mm just adds needless cost and weight. Likewise, I wouldn't recommend a 36 for a 5-Spot even if it can be adjusted to be short enough to work very well, simply because at that level of adjustment it offers less travel, more weight and (in most cases) more cost than the Vanilla, TALAS, Nixon and DUC 32. Anybody heavy, aggressive and rich enough to truly require the extra beef of a 36 over those forks should probably be on a different frame anyway. Maybe an X-5 with a Testigo swingarm or something...

;)

I was thinking more in terms of axle to crown length than the minimum amount of adjustable travel available. I wouldn't recommend to somebody who needed the length of a typical 80mm fork that they purchase a TALAS because the ability to adjust up to 125-130mm just adds needless cost and weight. Likewise, I wouldn't recommend a 36 for a 5-Spot even if it can be adjusted to be short enough to work very well, simply because at that level of adjustment it offers less travel, more weight and (in most cases) more cost than the Vanilla, TALAS, Nixon and DUC 32. Anybody heavy, aggressive and rich enough to truly require the extra beef of a 36 over those forks should probably be on a different frame anyway. Maybe an X-5 with a Testigo swingarm or something...

;)

Well, i'd say a fork that you can knock down to 4" for climbing, have set at 5" most of the time, and up to 6" for long descents would be perfect, if it is authorized by turner of course.

Well, i'd say a fork that you can knock down to 4" for climbing, have set at 5" most of the time, and up to 6" for long descents would be perfect, if it is authorized by turner of course.

But I can't see how a single crown fork that can handle DH tires can have a short enough axle to crown length at 5" to provide the geometry that the 5-Spot is designed for. The front end will be too high and the steering angle too slack.

DT has already writted that the 5-Spot was designed to work best with forks that have the same A-C as the Vanilla 125. We don't know what the 36 will be yet, but we can be sure that it will be significantly longer at 5" than the Vanilla

Besides all that, speaking as a Turner distributor I hope that they do not approve forks like the 36, 66 and Marz 150mm forks for the 5-Spot because I don't want to deal with eventual warranty issues from people misusing frames. You want 6" of FR fun? It's simple, get a 6-Pack!

But I can't see how a single crown fork that can handle DH tires can have a short enough axle to crown length at 5" to provide the geometry that the 5-Spot is designed for. The front end will be too high and the steering angle too slack.



Give me a break, at the most it will be 0.5 to 0.25? off...

What are we talking, an extra 1/2 of clearence...big deal.

I know 5 spot owners that wish they had a slacker HT by 0.5°-1.0° anyway

Heck, I could be in the minority because I'm a picky bastard when it comes to bikes that I think are over- or underforked. Probably has to do with having spent too much time riding rigid. ;)

It is all academic until the 36 is widely available anyway.

...I know 5 spot owners that wish they had a slacker HT by 0.5°-1.0° anyway
Just ask anyone riding a Z1:D

I hear ya.
If I'm gonna spend the ching, then I'm gotta have the bling.
Oh hells yeah Squeak! Get the GOLD dammit! (btw, blue and gold works reeeaaal well!)

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=25550&stc=1

Or is that not out yet?
i was told by the german distributor that is is 540mm and some guys on a german board affirmed that after they had measured it at the eurobike.

i am bargaining with my LBS at moment to sell me one of the 36s that will come with the first specialized enduros. that is where you will see them first for a very long time.
after specialized europe informed me that my enduro s-works will be delivered at the begining of february 2005 i have some more time to find a deal to get a FOX 36 from one of the "stock-enduros". but i am sure the guys at my LBS will not make a deal like that. ;) :cool: :D
we will see...


cheers,
hball

So what were your impressions of the ML7 and ML8, out of curiosity?



I think tscheezy summed it up well. They just didn't stand out from the crowd, but maybe it was because they were on the Maverick frames, a ML7 & ML8, which after riding I just couldn't understand why somebody would want to ride one of those, but that's another story.

As far as the 66, we rode a bike, I can't remember which, that was outfitted with one and it was nice (stiff 'n plush), but IMO I think it would be too much fork for the 6 Pack, it's AtoC takes it out of the running anyway, too tall, and the Mav's is too short. Personally I think the more viable options are the Marz AM or Z1 series or Fox's 36. I believe that tscheezy was more impressed with the AM1 and all the adjustments while I'd opt for the 36.

As far as the Pike air, I don't remember one, but the Rock Shock offerings we did ride left us unimpressed or down right disappointed.

Some revelant information. One of my riding buddies just got the maverick for his Elsworth Moment, and after the second ride the seals blew. Maverick stated that they have an upgraded replacement seal, so he is awaiting the warrantee repair. He is going to give it another try before buying the Fox 36. I'll let everyone know what happens.

So what were your impressions of the ML7 and ML8, out of curiosity?
Tscheezy's review sums it up very well. Check it out here.

I'm nota Spot owner but after getting a Burner earlier this year I'm so happy with it I'm looking to add a Spot to the collection. After looking at a lot of forks, on paper the Pike TA looks pretty nice. Of course it doesn't have the high zoot factor of a 36 but for the price it seems hard to beat. Anyone with much time on a Pike?

Mike

Tscheezy's review sums it up very well. Check it out here.

I'm happy with my Spot, but I would have had a tough choice between the Spot and the 575 if I was buying again. Mike at Universal Cycles was raving about how awesome a climber the 575 is. He owns one. I even had fleeting thoughts of getting a 575, but the Spot works so well for me it would be hard to justify.

I still think a light 6" travel bike would be awesome! I think the Moment with new Marzocchi 130-150 AM1 would be very fun.

Jaybo