The first pic is the Extreme X-3 with 7 inches in front. The second and third are the X-2 and X-1 which have 5-6 inch adjustable travel. The new hardtail is looking pretty cool.
You can get specs off of http://www.bikes.com.au/

i like that first one the most...

same here

Make that 3 who like #1.

I am guessing that bike #4 is for urban assault. Oh well, the new Escape series looks nice! Yay, another way for me to spend my money :D

It seems like they are a little behind in the technology department but you got to love the paint.

Santa Cruz Bullit.

It seems like they are a little behind in the technology department but you got to love the paint.

Is a single pivot, zero stack, hydroformed frame behind in technology now? Or should all bikes be four bars that work like single-pivots (non-horst link)? I guess Cannondales, Oranges, Sinisters, and Bullits are all behind too... :rolleyes:

ugly as sin.
not a drop of soul in the bucket.
maybe they need better stickers.

You can't beat these bikes for th' bang for th' buck. Burley built too. Decent spec package fer th' $$. Nice lookin' frames. Ain't been no rocket scientist designin' them but, their a decent bike. But they ain't no Bullit, specially when you climb.

the werks 7 is sweet. and funny they also have the werks 9...= 9 in rear travel
all af them come in only one color= polished chrome

those look pretty cool, and yes, I like the first one too.

exact same bike for the last 3 years altleast... they really gotta catch up.... not just repaint!

exact same bike for the last 3 years altleast... they really gotta catch up.... not just repaint!
last years didn't have a stance...

exact same bike for the last 3 years altleast... they really gotta catch up.... not just repaint!
most bikes are the same design. look at kona. stinky hasn't really changed much. except for the travel. bullit hasn't changed much except for travel. if it's a proven design companies aren't gonna leave it. i bet your bike whatever it is has stayed the same for a while too unless it's a yeti 303 or whatever.

most bikes are the same design. look at kona. stinky hasn't really changed much. except for the travel. bullit hasn't changed much except for travel. if it's a proven design companies aren't gonna leave it. i bet your bike whatever it is has stayed the same for a while too unless it's a yeti 303 or whatever.
yeah its not hard to just follow whatever 4 bar trend there is, they want simplicity and a certain price-point, and just make sure the damn things dont break.

of course the full color pics in the catalog look alot better. I think they did a great job on the graphics and color. The zero is gonna be an incredible bike...MSRP $550. You get Kenda K-rads, a gyro, SS horizontal dropouts, 100 mill Fork (made by SR Suntour...same people who manufacture 90% of Marzocchi's) and a solid restadaparts list. It is gonna be a great little skate, park, street and jumper.

and the x3 is gonna be a great bike. It will climb better than a bullit :D

exact same bike for the last 3 years altleast... they really gotta catch up.... not just repaint!

This is just plain wrong! I have an 04 X3 and the frame is alot different than the 03 was.
The 2003
http://www.harobikes.com/2003/images/bikes/large/ex3.jpg

The 2004: Notice the front triangle is hydroformed and super beefy and the diff rear swingarm
http://www.harobikes.com/2004/extremex3/large/bike.jpg

I also noticed that the 2005 X3 frame adds a 1.5 headtube and a different rear swingarm. I like the 04. As I have said (too often) I find the bike to work fine. Except for a skinny to concrete incident and horrible wrecks, the bike has held up 100%. I wish mine had more travel and was a little more plush, but some of that is the crappy Vanilla R I have.

Granted, it is a little overbuilt (read heavy) for 6" of travel, and it is not as refined as a nicer bike, but it is purpose built: affordable, fun, and durable. I still don't really like the ZS headset... of course, mine is super pimp-tastic (prepare for whorage) ->

http://cs.uccs.edu/~mjweaver/Images/softcore.JPG

oops...I forgot to add that they are using Ellsworth patented rear suspensions this year. Looks beefier too and they fixed the little rear swingarm problem they did have.

I am riding ALL Haro's this season (X3 w/ 66(yee har), Escape and Zero) and I am confident they will be able to handle most anything I throw at 'em.

oops...I forgot to add that they are using Ellsworth patented rear suspensions this year. Looks beefier too and they fixed the little rear swingarm problem they did have.

I am riding ALL Haro's this season (X3 w/ 66(yee har), Escape and Zero) and I am confident they will be able to handle most anything I throw at 'em.
what patent? you cant patent a single pivot.

what patent? you cant patent a single pivot.

Well you are again quite wrong my bag 'o douche Canadian friend :D

Atlas is the name of the patented rear suspension system that Ellsworth designed. Read up more and get educated about it here...:

http://www.ellsworthbikes.com/bikes/joker7/index.cfm

It's pretty clear that it is a single pivot. And they do have a patent on it. And Haro's will have the ATLAS patent sticker on them (just like all those Specialized 4 bars out there that aren't specializeds).

So if you could please tell your readers that you were wrong and stick to threads where you know something (like the how to build an extremely stoopid looking bike) that would be great.

just read Forrests Joker review.

Now I see why you interjected...yer ****-fused cause they have a patent on a single pivot and pissed that Forrest has a garage full of Ellsworths. Hater

just read Forrests Joker review.

Now I see why you interjected...yer ****-fused cause they have a patent on a single pivot and pissed that Forrest has a garage full of Ellsworths. Hater

No, no, z's pissed because it's a patent on the shape of the arm and the build process... which is crap because those swingarms suck. It's basically another way Ellsworth can woo foolish buyers who swoon with big words.




Let's dialog about this paradigm later. I would rather eschew obfuscation with regards to suspension metrics.





OHHHHHH! Buzzword-gasm!

just read Forrests Joker review.

Now I see why you interjected...yer ****-fused cause they have a patent on a single pivot and pissed that Forrest has a garage full of Ellsworths. Hater

ahhhhh, I see that you haven't actually READ the patent. thanks, I needed that laugh. :D

(hint: his "patent" on single pivots actually has NOTHING to do with it being a single pivot ;) )

ahhhhh, I see that you haven't actually READ the patent. thanks, I needed that laugh. :D

(hint: his "patent" on single pivots actually has NOTHING to do with it being a single pivot ;) )

Yes that patent is retarded -> it might have meant something ten years ago, but now those conclusions and ideas are laughable as a patent idea.

ahhhhh, I see that you haven't actually READ the patent. thanks, I needed that laugh. :D

(hint: his "patent" on single pivots actually has NOTHING to do with it being a single pivot ;) )

so it's a patent for a single pivot but it has NOTHING to do with a single pivot. Riiiight. But it's on a single pivot bike :D so it is a patent that applies to this technology on a single pivot bike but not a patent for a single pivot design...what if the ATLAS was used on a 4 bar...would companies like Haro have to license the design?

moving on :eek:

I was originally just simply stating that Haro is using a Ellsworth patented rear suspension. People in the past were worried about how strong the Extremes were. The ATLAS should fix the problem Haro was having.

I'll be putting the X3 thru alot of abuse and I will keep EVERY hater informed on how well it performs and on the durability. Can't wait...miss the big bikes. My Escape is destroying my ankles.

So if you could please tell your readers that you were wrong and stick to threads where you know something (like the how to build an extremely stoopid looking bike) that would be great.
nope, as it turns out i was right, the patent is based on the construction of the swingarm and not the "single pivot technology" (which is retarded anyways), but Ells sorta eludes that its some mystical and wonderful system.

you should know better than to challenge me young grasshopper.....

so it's a patent for a single pivot but it has NOTHING to do with a single pivot. Riiiight. But it's on a single pivot bike :D so it is a patent that applies to this technology on a single pivot bike but not a patent for a single pivot design...what if the ATLAS was used on a 4 bar...would companies like Haro have to license the design?

moving on :eek:

I was originally just simply stating that Haro is using a Ellsworth patented rear suspension. People in the past were worried about how strong the Extremes were. The ATLAS should fix the problem Haro was having.

I'll be putting the X3 thru alot of abuse and I will keep EVERY hater informed on how well it performs and on the durability. Can't wait...miss the big bikes. My Escape is destroying my ankles.

go here and read the patent: www.uspto.gov and search for ellsworth and bicycle. he basically patented the shape of his swingarm. Not pivot location, not axle path, nothing, just how the swingarm is set up.

how he got around the FSR patent for the 4-bars I have no idea...

as for ATLAS fixing the problem about how strong a Haro is, check out the "Joker review" at the top of the page. :rolleyes:

as for ATLAS fixing the problem about how strong a Haro is, check out the "Joker review" at the top of the page. :rolleyes:
maybe Haro could just copy the Bullit swingarm and pay nothing....oh wait, that would negate the marketing effect (actually, i wonder why Haro chose to do this).

Its funny that the Santa Cruz swingarms are mentioned in the patent, saying how they're more complicated and expensive to make because they have multiple piece yokes, yet i believe SC has a cheaper pricepoint

I *think* he got around the FSR patent by bringing the chainstay pivot towards and level with the rear axle.

I *think* he got around the FSR patent by bringing the chainstay pivot towards and level with the rear axle.
evil speculation: or simply wrote an incredibly convoluted patent application that got accepted when it shouldn't have, making it hard to challenge a patent against another patent. Hell i think all these 4 bar based patents are BS; to me its just refinement, not invention.

The funniest thing is that from the looks of it the swingarm didn't change from 04 to 05, with the exception of the X3 gaining an inch of travel. I wonder if they violated it first, then got permission?

Like I said before, Ellsworth sells based on being a "botique" brand and using buzz words.

The thing that kills me about FSR (Horst link), is that the design is really quite old (that and Specialized didn't even develop it, they bought it from Amp research). I wonder if the patent has been renewed or if it will run out anytime soon? I remember that when Giant came out with NRS they got into some serious litigation with big S.

Is a single pivot, zero stack, hydroformed frame behind in technology now? Or should all bikes be four bars that work like single-pivots (non-horst link)? I guess Cannondales, Oranges, Sinisters, and Bullits are all behind too... :rolleyes:

The title says it all

The title says it all

Dude, I am just curious, I don't really understand your post (context?), but you think these designs are out of date. As I mentioned lots of bikes use this design. And quite a few popular bikes don't have that much technology.

If you disagree, back it up with an arguement, otherwise it's just...

oh wait, that would negate the marketing effect (actually, i wonder why Haro chose to do this). :

Haro went with the 2005 design because it was a remedy to a problem they were having with breakage...I was told it was by accident and they realized it was the ATLAS design after the fact. They went with what they had and agreed to pay Ellsworth because IT IS a good design. I am sure that having the Ellsworth name on the bike was an added bonus to gain marketing material. I think it adds value to the ATLAS design if two seperate engineers came upon the same concept independant of each other.


as for ATLAS fixing the problem about how strong a Haro is, check out the "Joker review" at the top of the page. :rolleyes:

I didn't say it would fix the problem the JOKER was having ;) (They are different bikes and were breaking in different places.) I said it should fix the problem Haro was having and make the frames that much stronger. Just because it uses a piece of the same design doesn't meen they will break in the same manner...different materials, varying designs etc. Example - Azonic Sabers break at the rear chainstay, do Enduros...how about Norcos?? Maybe, maybe not. We'll know soon though if the Haro will be bombproof. I am thinking yes...hoping yes :D

Regardless though - $1600 MSRP for a 7" travel complete bike with good components is awesome. You couldn't touch a Bullit and fork for that much. And I think to the hardcore everyday mountain biker (not the build it sweet and look at in your garage guy) value is becoming more and more important.

nope, as it turns out i was right, the patent is based on the construction of the swingarm and not the "single pivot technology".....

You are not right. :D

would the patent be infringed upon if it was used to construct a simple kona-type 4 bar or only if it is used on single pivots. Only on single pivots right??

so it is a patent on a single pivot design or they woulda just used one patent for both their single pivots and 4 bars. It's how they construct an important piece of their single pivot bikes...and it has now helped Haro make an affordable, super burly, and fun single pivot bike. And that's the end of it.

[QUOTE=ezweave]The funniest thing is that from the looks of it the swingarm didn't change from 04 to 05, with the exception of the X3 gaining an inch of travel. I wonder if they violated it first, then got permission?
QUOTE]

It was a small change for 2005 (above and beyond the travel gain) but enough to make the Extremes even tougher which is valuable for Haro. And yes, they violated it first then got permission...which I would guess ads more value to the ATLAS design.

Haro went with the 2005 design because it was a remedy to a problem they were having with breakage...I was told it was by accident and they realized it was the ATLAS design after the fact. ....I think it adds value to the ATLAS design if two seperate engineers came upon the same concept independant of each other.


actually, the concept comes from engineering 101: Keep it Simple, Stupid. Hell i probably would of done that had i been designing a single pivot since i have access to 5 axis CNCs and no production budget to worry about.

To me its a manufacturing decision to make a single piece yoke or a multiple piece one. Obviously when you first design something, you keep the part count down and things outwardly simple...however it may not always make sense from a production POV.