I plan to ask my coach - but I thought I would shoot a post here also - so I could just see what kind of responses I get....

Anyway - I'm making the jump to Expert/elite this year, and have come to the conclusion that I need to bring more power to the table... (I use Joe Friel system) ..I have no idea what Morris Plan is .... THIS IS MY 2nd WEEK OF BASE 2 - and I've been doing PE (power endurance) lifting twice a week - I did no lifting last year, and did quite well, and I have no real lifting experience at all really. BUT what I have been noticing is that my legs are rocked out...destroyed, etc.....so When it comes time for my M1 workout or zone 3, or Tempo (whatever you call it) I can hardly get my heart rate up because my legs are so trashed...I have to switch to a really big resistance with low cadence to get it up above 170, and my legs are just saying NOOO. Zone 3 for me is 169-178bpm. VT tested at 191. So I guess my question is....will this go away? Is it just going to be tough for a couple weeks until my legs get used to lifting? I usually do 3 sets of 15 - 325lbs (leg press), 3 sets of 10 - 100lbs (squat), and legs curls with around 80-100lbs....the rest is upper body. I'm feeling really dejected because the whether here is terrible, and I haven't ridden outside in weeks...and I feel like my training is going backwards now...like I'm losing fitness because I'm having to cut workouts short because my legs are so dead from lifting....somebody shoot me some positive vibes!!! Tell me it will get better, and I'll be a stronger man if I can just get through this..... Help! I have cabin fever also I guess.

I plan to ask my coach - but I thought I would shoot a post here also - so I could just see what kind of responses I get....

Anyway - I'm making the jump to Expert/elite this year, and have come to the conclusion that I need to bring more power to the table... (I use Joe Friel system) ..I have no idea what Morris Plan is .... THIS IS MY 2nd WEEK OF BASE 2 - and I've been doing PE (power endurance) lifting twice a week - I did no lifting last year, and did quite well, and I have no real lifting experience at all really. BUT what I have been noticing is that my legs are rocked out...destroyed, etc.....so When it comes time for my M1 workout or zone 3, or Tempo (whatever you call it) I can hardly get my heart rate up because my legs are so trashed...I have to switch to a really big resistance with low cadence to get it up above 170, and my legs are just saying NOOO. Zone 3 for me is 169-178bpm. VT tested at 191. So I guess my question is....will this go away? Is it just going to be tough for a couple weeks until my legs get used to lifting? I usually do 3 sets of 15 - 325lbs (leg press), 3 sets of 10 - 100lbs (squat), and legs curls with around 80-100lbs....the rest is upper body. I'm feeling really dejected because the whether here is terrible, and I haven't ridden outside in weeks...and I feel like my training is going backwards now...like I'm losing fitness because I'm having to cut workouts short because my legs are so dead from lifting....somebody shoot me some positive vibes!!! Tell me it will get better, and I'll be a stronger man if I can just get through this..... Help! I have cabin fever also I guess.

Once you get past your weight training regime, and are just on the bike you'll notice after a couple weeks your legs feeling much less like dead wood. Hang in there! ;)

Just know you're not alone!

Now Friel recommends doing your ME and PE stuff on the bike as opposed to weights. The only time I felt like you do now was back in Base 1 during MS weights. I went from MS weights to SM, only doing a few ME & PE wo's in the weight room when the weather was really bad. I'm not sure if the books address this issue - they may still say to do PE and ME weights. I am using the trainingbible.com and it seems like the consensus there is you can only get better ME and PE on the bike...........

[QUOTE=Tbonius]I plan to ask my coach - but I thought I would shoot a post here also - so I could just see what kind of responses I get....

QUOTE]
I think discussing the technical aspects of your training is best done with your coach as the coach, I assume, has helped design your program.

But yes, I feel your pain. *grin* Here in the land of the ice and snow just wishin' for the time when the hot winds blow.............(apologies to LZ) Yeah, we all get sick of the limitations imposed by the weather.

I'm kickin' into doing some heavy work with the weights this week and my legs are complaining but I've not scheduled any on the bike training for this phase. I do 20 minutes on a stationary bike before each weight session as a warm up. At the start of the 20 minutes my legs are NOT happy. I continually ramp up the effort so that the last 3 minutes has me at LT and then a cool down and my legs are feeling ready for the weight work. I used to be a slave to the HR monitor. Last year I was so concerned about not being able to elevate the HR to my target zones I consulted a cardiologist; he almost laughed me out of his office. He said to pay less attention to the monitor and more attention to perceived effort..............or if possible to monitor power. I still use HR zones as guides for much of my training but when the legs are tired I pay less attention to the monitor.

I will say that just because I'm doing some heavy weight work I will not abandon riding. I'll still get at least a 3 hour endurance ride at the weekend. This particular phase of weight lifting has me lifting 4 times a week and doing alot of work so I'll not do any intensity on the bike. When this phase ends I will start back with spin class a couple of times a week to keep my body accustomed to some high intensity.

Be patient, stay with the program.............spring will be here eventually (I'll repeat that to myself ten times a day...........)

This works for me: Warm up for 20 minutes, work out, cool down for 20 minutes. If riding the next day start with a 45minute warm up. Yes, that is a lot of spinning, but maybe you can use the time to perfect your form as well.

BTW -- I cannot stand those lifecycles, so I ride to the gym on my commuter bike.

The problem I'm having is not training the "day of" but the effect the weight training has on my legs 1 and even 2 days after - I'm not even sore really...but I don't know if my legs are so full of lactic acid from lifting that they don't want to do a tempo workout or what. I'm hoping that this will go away since I just started adding weights to my training and my body is still adjusting to it...but it's troublesome because I use a tacx trainer, and I'll have a tempo workout scheduled that I just can't fulfill because it takes so much effort to get my legs moving for that type of workout...the cadence is SO LOOOW....I could be paying too much to heartrate..but I don't have a power meter (yet) and I have nothing else to go on. I keep thinking that I'm losing fitness because my legs are always in a state of deadness....It's just something I've never experienced before...and I'm having to cut the workouts short....(mind you I'm only 2 weeks into this weight training - so I'm probably just worrying too much - (although of been bas training since November too... and I'm getting less work in now than ever (could it be that it's freaking 20 below outside?) but I'm the type of guy who like to get a lot of good quality work in..and my legs are just shot right now..it's weird...who knows - maybe in another week they will be fine...

The problem I'm having is not training the "day of" but the effect the weight training has on my legs 1 and even 2 days after - I'm not even sore really...but I don't know if my legs are so full of lactic acid from lifting that they don't want to do a tempo workout or what. I'm hoping that this will go away since I just started adding weights to my training and my body is still adjusting to it...but it's troublesome because I use a tacx trainer, and I'll have a tempo workout scheduled that I just can't fulfill because it takes so much effort to get my legs moving for that type of workout...the cadence is SO LOOOW....I could be paying too much to heartrate..but I don't have a power meter (yet) and I have nothing else to go on. I keep thinking that I'm losing fitness because my legs are always in a state of deadness....It's just something I've never experienced before...and I'm having to cut the workouts short....(mind you I'm only 2 weeks into this weight training - so I'm probably just worrying too much - (although of been bas training since November too... and I'm getting less work in now than ever (could it be that it's freaking 20 below outside?) but I'm the type of guy who like to get a lot of good quality work in..and my legs are just shot right now..it's weird...who knows - maybe in another week they will be fine...
The last 2 seasons I was in the gym as prescribed by my coach and my legs would feel like dead wood on the bike, I hated it. The benefits of the lifting were worth it. If your not doing recoverey spin for at least a half an hour after you lift, try it, it really helps. FYI, this season I'm only doing core and upper body workout in the gym. I'm doing my power workout on the SS and the road bike. I like it better.

I think that feeling is universal. I was lifting last year and riding with the hardcore roadies on the weekend and was getting dropped on the first climb. I wasn't even really breathing hard, just my legs were dead. I stuck with endurance rides during weight training cuz that's all I could really do - oh, I remember I could manage some low cadence muscle tension stuff and power sprints, but other higher intensity stuff was out. My roommate has a similar story. I don't remember what Friel says about weights and riding concurrently, but most gurus say to cut way back on the riding. Talk to your coach, but I think trying to do tempo and higher intensities during a weight phase in unproductive. Just try to keep base fitness with some easy miles and gradually incorporate complemetary strength and power workouts you can do on the bike to translate that squat rack power to pedal pushing power.

If you are following a Training bible program, then you may want to cut back on the PE wts and replace some of them with Force workouts on the bike. I'm in Base 2 right now as well and have completed the MS wts workouts in Base 1. Training Bible Virtual Coach has me scheduled for 2 Strength Maintenance workouts for weights, no PE or ME weights. It also has me scheduled for Force workouts in Base 2 and 3. So it seems that more of the strength training is on the bike. I try to complete all of the bike workouts and schedule gym time if I can't get out.
It's realistic to expect weight training to affect your riding. Don't stress too much. You will be able to recover. Keep riding to work on endurance. Add in Z3 work and some Force workouts. In Base 3 increase the intensity and or time spent in Z3-4. and continue to work on Force.
Hope this helps.
Mike

I think your answer may have been the best ... I haven't talked to my coach yet, and I think he scheduled the PE weights becuase it's frozen waterbottle cold out right now, and icy..and just not practical to ride outside really...so he's trying to break the monotony from the trainer sessions. Not having much of a weight lifting back ground - I'm probably guilty of trying to push to much weight also..

No offense, but what kind of coach is going to change your season's plan based on some advice you got off the internet?

I think your answer may have been the best ... I haven't talked to my coach yet, and I think he scheduled the PE weights becuase it's frozen waterbottle cold out right now, and icy..and just not practical to ride outside really...so he's trying to break the monotony from the trainer sessions. Not having much of a weight lifting back ground - I'm probably guilty of trying to push to much weight also..

I think that most coaches have a limited amount of knowledge of the student to start off with..I've been base training since November - because I'm following one of the racers plans in the training bible - Joe Friel has a racer peaking right off the bat at the beginning of the season .... since our season doesn't really start Till May, and I will be racing a lot of races we decided to extend the base period and see if we could develop more power to be competitive first year elite and peak for the AMBC (middle of season) race...and then peak at the end of the year races. There is a good chance that this will be a learning year, and I don't really expect to do super well, but we decided that we could go with some power work...technically speaking no training plan is written in stone, and some times you have to switch things up to get the most out of your recovery, training etc.... I talked to him a little bit, and he wants me to continue with the weight training, but not to be so gung ho about it....I always try to destroy myself during workouts... it's just my personality. He thinks I'm moving a little bit too much weight...his (and Friels) concept is that train hard, but be ready for the next session... I will sometimes train so hard that I'm tweaked for the next session....so in a nutshell lighten up on the weights...so you can at least be able to perform your zone 3 work..they are more inmportant.

I was mostly posting to see what kind of opinions are floating around....people have different theories on training and I was just curious....I don't think any coach would tell you to continue training in a way that wasn't improving your performance .... there is a lot of trial and error.... and Innovation!!! Look at Lance's high cadence style that he has perfected over the years.....in some way it is opposite the power work that some pros are doing...

You definitely have the right perspective: you don't just train for the current season. That is something that people forget those last few weeks before the season starts.