Need help here, ETSX owners. I am stuck between between thest two bikes:

- 2003 ETSX-30 for $1999, or

- 2004 Stumpjumper for $1740.

Although you may think the bikes are different, in reality they are very very similar in geometry and other aspects. The parts are much better on the Stumpy despite its cheaper price.

I will be doing x-country riding: 2-3 races a year, light jumping, roots, rocks, 2x riding a week. Mostly local watershed riding, etc. I weigh 220lbs, so I am a clydesdale.

Any input from actual riders of these two bikes would be appreciated.

Some key similarities and differences:

Their head tubes and seat tube angles are virtually the same: 71/73.

Top tubes are both about 24.2".

The standover is actually better on the Stumpy: 29.1" vs 31.5" for the RM.

They are both 4x4 bikes. The RM is adjustable from 3.5"-4.5".

The front fork is a Manitou Black Elite on the Stumpy vs Marzochi MX Pro ETA on the RM.

XT crankset on Stumpy; Deore crankset on RM. Big difference.

M-555 disc brakes on Stumpy; M-525 brakes on ETSX.

Fox Float R on Stumpy; Rock Shox Bar Adjust on ETSX. Big difference?

Price....$1740 for Stumpy; $2000 for the ETSX.

Bottom line: is the RM worth $260 more, especially with inferior brakes, crankset, and rear shock? Is adjustable suspension worth that much?

Thanks for any and all input.

Any input from actual riders of these two bikes would be appreciated.
I'm on a 2001/2 ETS-X50.

The front fork is a Manitou Black Elite on the Stumpy vs Marzochi MX Pro ETA on the RM.
I think that the MX Pro would be way better than the Black Elite.

XT crankset on Stumpy; Deore crankset on RM. Big difference.
You could always upgrade to XT cranks later for cheap.

M-555 disc brakes on Stumpy; M-525 brakes on ETSX.
The Elite Disc (the model I assume your are talking about) lists the same M-525 brakes as the RM. I have the M-525 and I have ZERO complaints. I would even buy them again. One thing to note though: the Elite Disc says that it has upgraded XT rotors. This will cause madening high pitched squealing. I had upgraded to XT rotors as well, but after all kinds of troubleshooting my shop finaling talked the Shimano and they said to go back to the Deore rotors. Since then everything's cool.

Fox Float R on Stumpy; Rock Shox Bar Adjust on ETSX. Big difference?
I don't know that there is a big difference here. I have the Fox on my RM, and I've had no problems. My guess would be that the Fox is the preferred shock for either bike, but I bet that the RS bar will perform better on the RM than it would on the Elite Disc.

Bottom line: is the RM worth $260 more, especially with inferior brakes, crankset, and rear shock?
I think it's a tough call, almost too close. I think that I would choose the better shop and better service agreement (if they aren't at the same place). In the end either bike should make you happy. I also don't see many RM's around compaired to Specialized, and sometimes it's cool to be different.

Is adjustable suspension worth that much?
No. I don't take mine out of the 4.5 setting, and most other ETS-X riders stick with one setting too. So don't get the RM just for the adjustible suspension. I wish it didn't even have the option.

This is a tough question for me personally, because I have been thinking of getting an 04 Stumpy myself. I like the way the frame fits me better. Can I justify the cost? No, I just bought my RM a year and a half ago. Don't get me wrong, I love my RM, but I may not have it forever (don't tell my wife).

I ride a 2002 1/2 RM ETSX-50. And I will not be getting rid of it ever. It is simply one more
in my stable of bikes. And I would never introduce a Specialized to that stable. Maybe a
Turner or a Santa Cruz, maybe another RM.

The ETSX models all share the same frame, hand built with Eastern tubing. The design
has an uninterrupted seat tube, a small criterion but a must in my books. The rear end
is plenty stiff enough, regardless of what you might have heard. And the ride is far
superior to the FSR.

Buy the ETSX. Components can be upgraded. A frame can't. You have to buy a new
bike. The Marz' fork is one file fork. The rear shock might be questionable but, ride it and
see. The ETSX really doesn't need the stable platform shock. In fact I upgraded my Fox
Float to a 2003 Vanilla RC coil. The M525 brakes are perfect, I too would buy them again.
And the XT rotors are too thin.

With the ETSX-30 you are buying a high end frame ready to ride. The stuff that makes it
ridable, that you don't like, can be changed, after you find out what you don't like.

michael

I ride a 2002 1/2 RM ETSX-50. And I will not be getting rid of it ever. It is simply one more
in my stable of bikes. And I would never introduce a Specialized to that stable. Maybe a
Turner or a Santa Cruz, maybe another RM.

The ETSX models all share the same frame, hand built with Eastern tubing. The design
has an uninterrupted seat tube, a small criterion but a must in my books. The rear end
is plenty stiff enough, regardless of what you might have heard. And the ride is far
superior to the FSR.

Buy the ETSX. Components can be upgraded. A frame can't. You have to buy a new
bike. The Marz' fork is one file fork. The rear shock might be questionable but, ride it and
see. The ETSX really doesn't need the stable platform shock. In fact I upgraded my Fox
Float to a 2003 Vanilla RC coil. The M525 brakes are perfect, I too would buy them again.
And the XT rotors are too thin.

With the ETSX-30 you are buying a high end frame ready to ride. The stuff that makes it
ridable, that you don't like, can be changed, after you find out what you don't like.

michael

The two of you have posted two of the more intelligent responses I have gotten in a while...thanks a ton, seriously. I will test ride the FSR today, but in reality I am leaning towards the RM...mainly because of the frame and the cool factor (hey - at least I'm honest with myself).

The front fork is nicer as well, which is a plus. The MX Pro gets rave reviews.

Thanks for the input on the brakes by both of you...very helpful. I personally detest squeeling sounds in the middle of the woods. You can practically see the wildlife covering their ears.

i've ride a etsx 50 for about 500miles last summer. Personally i think the RM frame and fork are way better than the stumpy. A shock upgrade for a float R w/propedal and an XT crank will be a good improvement for this beast. Regarding your style of riding, know that the RM frame as a lot of flex in the rear end (at least for the 2003 models).

The overall construction and assembly of the RM (canadian handmade bikes are the best) will be better than the taiwanese stumpy. Like the other post i will never buy a specialized but a RM almost anytime, i said almost because this year i change my traibike for a brand new DEVINCI Banzai ( east cost equivalent of RM i think)

Xcuse for the strange english and have a nice ride

ok, they both are good polyvalent bikes but...

with the ETSX you've got :

- the rear suspension effectiveness (on climbs !)
- the seatpost going all the way down for hard technical riding
- the diamond frame for taking the bike on the shoulder
- not heard about rear triangle cracks

I own one since last autumn and rode it rather XC, until this
spring where I rode some more aggressive technical trails
(rocks, switchbacks...) where it does just perfect ! and the
suspension shines for going at the top of this downhills : I'm
always impressed by that !

I bought just the frame and fitted components from previous bike
and mail order shops : half price overall (in France at least)...

Tom

i've ride a etsx 50 for about 500miles last summer. Personally i think the RM frame and fork are way better than the stumpy. A shock upgrade for a float R w/propedal and an XT crank will be a good improvement for this beast. Regarding your style of riding, know that the RM frame as a lot of flex in the rear end (at least for the 2003 models).

The overall construction and assembly of the RM (canadian handmade bikes are the best) will be better than the taiwanese stumpy. Like the other post i will never buy a specialized but a RM almost anytime, i said almost because this year i change my traibike for a brand new DEVINCI Banzai ( east cost equivalent of RM i think)

Xcuse for the strange english and have a nice ride

I won't get into this Specialized vs RM " war ", 'cause even if I live in Canada, I am a big fan and owner of Specialized. I have to correct one thing, though. First, you should know that more and more RM are not handbuilt in Canada anymore (RM is now full property of Procycle, the same company which closed Balfa to leave a clear field for RM :( because RM's production costs are lower than Balfa's - because they're built in Taiwan). Second, the welding quality of the Taiwanese-built bikes is now considered by most as superior as the " US/Canada handbuilt bikes ". So, let's not turn our nose up at these " made in Taïwan " bikes, which may be more durable than their american counterparts.

I have an ETSX-70 and my wife has a stumpy FSR here are the diffs that we both see. My wife thinks and I agree that the standover height on the RM is quite high compared to the Stumpy and you do sit up noticably higer. On the other hand the bottom bracket is higher on the RM. The top tube on the RM is shorter which gives the rider a shorter cockpit that may feel short for XC riding if you are not used to it. I have ridden both and think that the climbng ability on the RM is better, it seems to claw the back tire into the ground. I do get jacking when braking on the RM that I do not notice on the Spec as much. I have ridden my RM for 550 miles since I got it in late November and I really like the ride but I have had to have the rear derailer mount adjusted several because for some reason it gets bent. While I do ride aggresively I do not think that should be happening. Same thing with the rear derailer I have had to have it fixed. I do not know if it is the right bike to take a lot of hops I think there are other bikes better suited for that. I do have not raced mine but I gotta tell ya except for the items I mentioned I would rather race the RM.

My bike is an ETSX and my girlfriends bike is a Stumpy wich I have spent a fair amount of time on. In a race I would say the Stumpy is the better bike but the ETSX is far better on realy technical trails. With the parts that are on the X-30 I would go for the Stumpy and this is why. The rock shock rear shock on the X-30 is garbage and the fork is heavy and sluggish I realy like the Black fork on the stumpy. If you are looking to purchase a bike and start upgrading then the poor part spech on the X-30 is not a big deal but the stumpy is lighter , stiffer, cheaper and excelerates and turns fster due to its lower BB hight. Bottom line is if your on a budget then you can't beat the Specailized. I love my ETSX-70 but I have about $6000 in this thing and my girlfriends $1500 stumpy is almost as good.

I have an '05 ETSX-30 and my GF has a '04 Stumpy FSR. Both bikes are VERY different to ride and best suit the way each of us ride. The ETSX is much better in technical, rooty, rocky, terrain with small drops. The Stumpy acelerates a LOT quicker, has a quicker feel, and is much more stable.

The older ETSX frame designs were not as stiff laterally (around BB) as the Stumpy, however the new '05 ETS-X is pretty damn close. I think the ETSX is a better bike for the riding you described. However, the '03 model you are listing for that price is not a good buy at all. The shock is complete rubbish. I have a bike with a MX Comp coil fork on and it is no where near as nice feeling as my Fox TALAS. You will notice very little difference between how an XT and Deore crank shifts (the Deore rings will last 3 times longer) it is just a weight thing, and the 525 brakes work as good as the 555 brakes once you put semi-mettalic pads in (again just a weight thing). The ETSX doesn't work too good with the 100 mm fork such as the MX Pro, a longer fork makes the bike behave much better.

I purchsed my new '05 ETSX-30 for $2650 CAN, which has a Fox Talas fork a Fox float shock. I have seen '04 ETSX-30 for $1700 CAN brand new.

Gotta agree with the comments about the shocks. The 30 would definitely need a shock upgrade. I don't know about the drops on the ETSX they would have to be small I get some flex on my 2004 but I weigh a bit above average.

Reading through these posts, I felt it germaine to comment...

The RM is an extremely well thought out and efficient bike that deserves some serious credit -it is beautifully made and rides like a dream. That said, the Stumpy is a fine bike as well, but I would argue that the frame is a slightly inferior offering compared to the ETSX.

RM bikes tend to fit a shorter torso and thus feel quite a bit different in the saddle. I have an '04 Blizzard and I love it, but its handling certainly favours quick & tight singletrack as the dimensions are relatively and tight front-to-back. Consider this with respect to the type of riding you plan to do as the ETSX tend to average shorter front-to-back measurements as well. Essentially, both handle quite differently inspite of somewhat similar numbers, so test both, absolutely.

With regards to RM having their stuff made in Taiwan, some of it is indeed built off-shore as I understand it (lower end bikes). However, all their ETSX bikes and anything in the upper end (Blizzard, Vertex, Element etc) are indeed built in Vancouver BC.

Lastly, having ridden both the ETSX and the FSR bikes (both Epic and Stumpjumper) I would have to say that the ETSX feels more responsive and more stable, I think, largely due to the suspension design controlling pedal input a bit more actively than the FSR. Also, the overall frame quality of the ETSX is (honestly and without bias) a bit higher in my opinion. The welds in the RM are flawless and the attention to detail is outstanding. Also, the new CNC machined rear linkages and high-precision bearings are simply the best you could ask for in any suspension design. Specialized opted for cheaper off-shore labour and while still good, I do honestly believe that the boys at RM in Richmond take more care in building their frames.

Either way, both come with 1-year warranties on the shocks and bearings, and the ETSX comes with a 5 year frame warranty. I think Specialized offers the same frame warranty, but I'm not sure.

Bottom line: RIDE THEM! Test both on some real terrain and then make an informed decision.

PS - If I sound like a biased Canadian RM lover and Blizzard rider, consider this: I just purchased an '05 Epic frameset, so I do genuinely appreciate what the Big Red 'S' has to offer!

This is a Canadian Bike forum, so I would go with the Rocky. If you need an answer for Specialized, I would go to the Taiwanese Bike forum.

"If you need an answer for Specialized, I would go to the Taiwanese Bike forum"

Now that was good for a laugh, I needed that this mornin

Either way, both come with 1-year warranties on the shocks and bearings, and the ETSX comes with a 5 year frame warranty. I think Specialized offers the same frame warranty, but I'm not sure.

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY ON BICYCLE FRAMES AND FRAMESETS
Subject to the following limitations, terms and conditions, Specialized warrants to the original owner for the lifetime of the original owner of each new Specialized bicycle or frameset that the bicycle frame or frameset when new is free of defective materials and workmanship. The lifetime limited warranty is conditioned upon the bicycle being operated under normal conditions and use, and properly maintained. This limited warranty does not apply to paint/finish or components attached to the bicycle/frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seatpost, handlebar and stem or any suspension related parts or components. Paint/finish, components attached to the bicycle/ frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seatpost, handlebar and stem or any suspension related parts or components are covered under the limited one (1) year warranty. This warranty is void if the bicycle or frameset was not purchased new from or not properly assembled by an authorized Specialized dealer.