Metroid,
I was planning on building a new battery for my old NR classic. I was going to use my Jet phantom charger, are these chargers sensitive to the difference in mAh? I know that Jet uses 3800mAh, but I was planning on building my battery to be using 4500mAh. Would this be fine to use my Jet charger with it? Should I go with tabs or no tabs for the batteries?

One more thing, could I build a Lithium battery pack and use it with my Jet charger?

Thanks

I was planning on building my battery to be using 4500mAh. Would this be fine to use my Jet charger with it?

The Jet charger will work fine, it will just take longer.

Should I go with tabs or no tabs for the batteries?

Tabs or not depends on how your going to build your packs. Tabs are easier to solder. They aren't the most sturdy things though so be careful. If they come off, it's not the end of the world. Without tabs, you can use a large wattage iron or solder gun directly on the cells, just do it quickly.

One more thing, could I build a Lithium battery pack and use it with my Jet charger?

The Jet charger is only for NiCad and NiMH.

This is just my own biased opinion based on my personal experience and I will say up front that I have not built a battery pack using cells with pre-attached tabs already in place and I have not ordered individual cells with them so maybe I am thinking of a different type of “tab”, but I don’t think so.

I have dealt with many pre-assembled battery packs that use this method of construction and I have seen more than a few of these connections fail although it was in a more intense environment than a bike lighting system. If I am off on this then disregard the following.

The tabs are basically thin flexible strips of tin-can type material that are spot-welded to the cells usually in four pinpoint spots in a square about 1/8 inch apart. They are easily removed with a few back and forth twists of a pair of pliers (I guess that’s good news) so if they are cheaper with the tabs, then you could easily remove them. Personally, I would not build a battery pack with them because I know how to build them with a much stronger connection. I would probably be more likely to connect them with small lengths of quality wire than with the pre-attached tabs.

I use battery tabs used in the RC hobby that are much thicker (not really flexible) and less likely to fail, so I use them to build my bike lights. I also would not hesitate to solder a wire directly to a cell so a spot-welded tabs is not desirable IMHO unless they are cheaper (which happens sometimes).

If I had the equipment to spot-weld the tabs to connect one cell to another, it might be OK, but if you have a bunch of individual cells with tabs, how do you connect them yourself? I guess you still have to solder them. My guess is that this method is used in mass production situations because it is cheaper, faster and cleaner (and maybe safer too) than soldering if you have equipment designed specifically for this purpose.

Also, I have not found a gun type soldering iron that is desirable to use in constructing battery packs. The problem is that the tips are not of sufficient mass to hold enough heat necessary to quickly solder a tab or wire to a cell regardless of the wattage rating of the gun. I have tried guns with up to 240 watt ratings (I'm not saying Metroid is flat wrong about guns working for this , but I haven't seen any that work). I have also found that a 40-watt soldering iron with a ¼ inch chisel tip works very well for this purpose. You don’t want to have the iron on the cell for more than five seconds. It usually takes me about two to three seconds max to solder a tab or wire to a cell.

I usually scuff the end of the cell with a Dremel or emery cloth and then pre-tin the cell before attaching the tab or wire. Radio Shack 60/40 solder works great and is very reasonable for a half-pound spool.

The tabs I use are available at hobby stores, cost around $.25 each and are designed for sub-c cells, but could be modified for smaller A and AA cells.

It is not that difficult with a small amount of tools and a good electronics store nearby.

Most of the packs in these pictures were built from battery packs that originally came with the “tabs but I disassembled the packs and removed the tabs and then rebuilt them into packs for my bike lighting systems.

I was going to build a water bottle battery, for my old NR. I cost it out to be about $45, from battery station, for a 4000MAH, but they said that they sell a pre built for $70, that is rated at 45000MAH, I was debating which to go for. Since I don'd have a soldering iron, so it would be a pain to go over to my GF house and use her dad's.
Any idea on long a 13.2 45000MAH, light would run on my NR classic?

This is just my own biased opinion based on my personal experience and I will say up front that I have not built a battery pack using cells with pre-attached tabs already in place and I have not ordered individual cells with them so maybe I am thinking of a different type of “tab”, but I don’t think so.

I have dealt with many pre-assembled battery packs that use this method of construction and I have seen more than a few of these connections fail although it was in a more intense environment than a bike lighting system. If I am off on this then disregard the following.

The tabs are basically thin flexible strips of tin-can type material that are spot-welded to the cells usually in four pinpoint spots in a square about 1/8 inch apart. They are easily removed with a few back and forth twists of a pair of pliers (I guess that’s good news) so if they are cheaper with the tabs, then you could easily remove them. Personally, I would not build a battery pack with them because I know how to build them with a much stronger connection. I would probably be more likely to connect them with small lengths of quality wire than with the pre-attached tabs.

I use battery tabs used in the RC hobby that are much thicker (not really flexible) and less likely to fail, so I use them to build my bike lights. I also would not hesitate to solder a wire directly to a cell so a spot-welded tabs is not desirable IMHO unless they are cheaper (which happens sometimes).

If I had the equipment to spot-weld the tabs to connect one cell to another, it might be OK, but if you have a bunch of individual cells with tabs, how do you connect them yourself? I guess you still have to solder them. My guess is that this method is used in mass production situations because it is cheaper, faster and cleaner (and maybe safer too) than soldering if you have equipment designed specifically for this purpose.

Also, I have not found a gun type soldering iron that is desirable to use in constructing battery packs. The problem is that the tips are not of sufficient mass to hold enough heat necessary to quickly solder a tab or wire to a cell regardless of the wattage rating of the gun. I have tried guns with up to 240 watt ratings (I'm not saying Metroid is flat wrong about guns working for this , but I haven't seen any that work). I have also found that a 40-watt soldering iron with a ¼ inch chisel tip works very well for this purpose. You don’t want to have the iron on the cell for more than five seconds. It usually takes me about two to three seconds max to solder a tab or wire to a cell.

I usually scuff the end of the cell with a Dremel or emery cloth and then pre-tin the cell before attaching the tab or wire. Radio Shack 60/40 solder works great and is very reasonable for a half-pound spool.

The tabs I use are available at hobby stores, cost around $.25 each and are designed for sub-c cells, but could be modified for smaller A and AA cells.

It is not that difficult with a small amount of tools and a good electronics store nearby.

Most of the packs in these pictures were built from battery packs that originally came with the “tabs but I disassembled the packs and removed the tabs and then rebuilt them into packs for my bike lighting systems. ...and had a bear of a time getting the solder to stick. That was until a wirehead bud of mine told me 'the trick.'

Get some medium to coarse sand paper and rough/dull (the ends were smooth and shiny before) up the battery ends. The solder just sticks right on if you do that. My 140W gun had no probmems making a glob of solder stick to the ends of my 3/4A cells. Then I applied some solder to some hook-up wire, and stuck them together in one fast soldering motion, and made a super solid connection.

I had no confidence that the solder tabs would hold up to the heavy shaking my battery wold receive while biking. Those things were coming off in my hands while trying to solder them. I just tore them all off and soldered away. The last thing I wanted was for my light to fail while trying to negotiate some techy stuff at night.

I agree that the tabs aren't that great. They are thin and applied with the spot weld. They work fine for attaching adjacent cells like in a flat pack. Basically you alternate the tabs and solder them together, tab to tab. This works well if you don't have a higher powered iron. I'm using the same as you though, 45W 1/4" tip Weller. It works great but surface prep is a must. Without tabs, I used copper braid copper solder remover between the cells since it's flat.

I was going to build a water bottle battery, for my old NR. I cost it out to be about $45, from battery station, for a 4000MAH, but they said that they sell a pre built for $70, that is rated at 45000MAH, I was debating which to go for. Since I don'd have a soldering iron, so it would be a pain to go over to my GF house and use her dad's.
Any idea on long a 13.2 45000MAH, light would run on my NR classic?

Soldering irons are cheap. Battery Station sells 4500mAh individual cells as well.

burn time = 13.2V * 4.5Ah / 32W = 1.85 hours