Hi,

I want a custom Steel.

I dont want a 29`r but a 26`r but brouwsing through the web it appears that most of the builders are doing mostly 29`rs at the moment so I thought I would post here.

Im looking for a Good builder who has got a good rep for customer relations. If I go stateside I won`t be able to turn up for a fitment and ive seen a few posts on these boards about non returned e-mail and bad customer relations.

Who is out there that have a good rep?

At the mo ive been looking at, Pereira, Stong, Badger, Ted Wojcik, Dave Yates (uk), 2 souls cycles (germany).

Any I have missed? and any I should cross off the list?

All help appreciated

I can personally recommend Strong and IF for custom steel. Would also consider a Blacksheep, but have only ridden their Ti frame.

I would consider Walt Wehner at waltworks.com

Curtlo
Waterford/Gunnar
Serotta
Tom Teasdale
Clockwork

Most of the builders you'll be advised on here will prefer to build you a 29"er, unless you have very specific reasons against it. If you are dead-set on 26", and custom, there are likely better builders for you many of us have rarely heard of.
You're brave though, posting so explicitly off-topic, on a large forum, in hope to get responses. Have you checked the Custom Builders forum here on mtbr?

I would consider Walt Wehner at waltworks.com
Also my first choice. However, I think he once posted that 95% of his builds are 29", and then some are road bikes. What's left is 26". Go figure.

I think its a smart move to post this question here, the Custom builders forum have no longer much activityand it is done mostly here.
Many of the above mention builders will do 26" for you, Strong will do it without a problem/unswer your calls and dliver on time/build you a great bike with full resposibility for his product.

another nod towards a Waltworks. I'm sure he wouldn't mind slumming it a little and building a 26er. There's probably some sort of little-wheel affirmitive action clause for custom builders anyway - gotta build one now and then to avoid favoritism :p

Dont Forget about Independent Fabrication - They would be glad to do a 26er for you. The Steel Deluxe is a fabulous frame. They are also one of the few builders currently building with the new Reynolds 953 Stainless steel.

ifbikes.com

I had Mike Desalvo (http://www.desalvocycles.com/) build me my road bike - steel with carbon fork and seat stays. Couldn't be happier with it! Working with Mike was awesome - he's super easy to deal with, full of suggestions and good ideas, very thorough, prompt with getting back to you and a great guy. He was about a month late getting the bike to me (I wasn't rushed to get it in the winter anyway), so for being late he gave me my King headset and a shop jersey for free. If I had the loot to buy a custom rig again, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to get Mike to build me up one.
Good luck!

I couldn't be happier with my Strong. I think Carl is one of the best builders out there and his customer service is second to none. I've got a 26er SyCip single speed (that is currently for sale) that is absolutely beautiful too; I've had great luck communicating with SyCip. I needed a replacement frame decal, called them up and had it in my hands without charge in about a week. I'm lucky enough to have steel bikes from Vicious Cycles and Independent Fabrication too and can't knock the construction of any of them.

I have a strong that I got 2nd hand (the guy that had it built was a roadie ad he couldn't get the hang of the dirt)
It is one awesome riding bike, even though it wasn't built for me it still fits me great and handles the single track like a dream.

If I was having one built I would go with Strong, my two other choices would be IF and Vicious.

I have been very happy with my Soulcraft Holy Roller and am sure Sean would be very happy to build you a bike around 26" wheels. Remember he worked at Salsa when it was in Petaluma and built alot of Ala Carte's. Contrary to what Cloxxi says, I think most of the builders listed would love to build you a 26" bike.
Happy Trails

I couldn't be happier with DeSalvo. He built my 29er and it's great. Easy to deal with, helpful and accesible. My bike came a bit late, but that seems like the way things go in this market. I had Carl Strong on my short list of two also. The Strong bikes I have seen are just gorgeous, and Carl seems like a really great person to deal with.

Scott Quiring (http://www.quiringcycles.net)

gallery (http://www.quiringcycles.net/igallery/igallery.asp)

He will build a 26er for you!

Norwegian ...
Curtis in UK seems to have a good reputation, if the hardcore hardtail style fits you.

I have one of the 2soulscycles stock frames coming to me. Communication with them is a bit slow.

I have been very happy with my Soulcraft Holy Roller and am sure Sean would be very happy to build you a bike around 26" wheels. Remember he worked at Salsa when it was in Petaluma and built alot of Ala Carte's. Contrary to what Cloxxi says, I think most of the builders listed would love to build you a 26" bike.
Happy Trails

Agreed...I'm 4 months in on the 6 month waiting list for my Holy Roller right now. I agonized over four of the many terrific SF bay area custom steel builders (Sycip, Steelman, Retrotec, and Soulcraft) to go with before settling on Sean. I know Sean has probably welded up more Option 3's (26ers) than anything else. Just check the reviews from here on mtbr (perfect 5 rating with 58 reviews)....

http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/XC_Hardtail/product_21261.shtml

MSH

Another vote for Strong here. Great communication and the bike was exactly what I wanted.

Hugh Black of True North bikes. OP where are you located? Hugh is about an hour away from Toronto Ontario. He's big on the 29ers too, but certainly will built you a 26er. Are you really tall?

Drew

Peacock Groove has made some awesome 26" and 29" bikes. Check out his website!!:thumbsup:

Robin Mather in the UK makes lovely bikes
http://www.robinmathercycles.co.uk/

Wow, what a great responce.

Time isnt a problem because this will be my 3rd bike.

As to why I posted this here on the 29`er forums is because all the builders ive looked at to now build 29`ers mostly but thay all say that its no problem for them to build 26`ers.

I ride mosly technicle trails, AM if you wanna put it in a group. The thing is that im pretty short with a 28 inch inseam and ride 16-16.5 inch frames. I dont want to upset you guys but I think 16 inch 29`ers look a bit wierd and I imagine that arnt that great on my local trails.

Ive heard mixed stories about Curtis and black sheep.

I dont realy want a so called, hard core bike because ive ridden light xc bikes around here without any problems. I would like a bike thats nimble but will take a 130-140 fork up front and would like the option of being able to use a 1x9 setup with an intigrated bracket for a chainguide and paragon sliding dropouts for incase I ever decide to go single speed at a later date.

Strong looks good and I havnt heard any problems with him. Ive now had a look at waltworks and his prices seem realy competative. It would be a bit easier if you fellas could post links to you faves because some websites are harder to find than others.

Ive never heard of Peacock Groove but looking at their website there are som nice details on the frame he has in the gallery.

I would also like to hear from some customers of Badger, Ted Wojcik and Pereira.

Those three look like great bikes but although thay say they will make a (proberbly novell to them now!) 26`er, there are almost no pictures of 26`er on their websites.

What about Dobermann from canada? Looks like they deal mostly in jump/ bmx bikes but I think I heard somewhere that thay will pretty much make anything.

Anyone know why some builders are anti lugs? Is it simply too much hassel ?

As I said I would like to make a short list and then contact all on the short list and see who can make me the bike of my dreams.

Cheers folks,

Rob.

btw, im based in Norway (thats northern europe or scandinavia for those who dont know)

Oh, thanks for the link to Robin Mather.

They look like great bikes. He says he can adapt a frame to fit 129 forks, ill drop him a line to se if he can bump it up to 130-140..

I third, or fourth (or however far we've gotten) Carl Strong. Top notch in every way. Everything else aside, he has probably the cleanest welds I've ever seen. :thumbsup:

I spent a week in his shop with him teaching me how to build a frame. One of my top 5 life experiences (behind the birth of my kids and getting married of course). He taught me a lot, not just about building frames, but about his customer service mentality and business model. He's a pro.

I would consider Walt Wehner at waltworks.com
I 2nd that great idea!!! Walt is the man!!!

Hi there,

I noticed a couple of people mention Independent Fabrications. They built me up a great Deluxe frame a year ago and its the best frame I have ridden. I live in Australia and dealing with them was a breeze from here. Nothing was a problem for them and they replied to my emails within 6 hours everytime. After filliing out the fitment forms online they faxed the geometry to me and kept me up to date on progress untill the day i received the frame.


They were the first frame manufacturer to work with the new reynolds 953 which says alot. All the characteristists of 853 with out the rust and it is stronger than Ti!

Good luck with your decision.

M.

Right.

Luckely for me the us dollar isnt doing too well at the moment so after a bit of ohh and arr, I have found out that I can actually afford a custom Ti, even if it means that I will have to wait a while to actualy build it up.

On my ti shortlist I have a few builders.

Eriksen. I know of a guy in Norway that has recied this off him.

http://www.pbase.com/trond/image/75957359/original.jpg

He said that the bike was sent on exactly the date given to him, top service and easy to talk too.

Strong is still on the list along with DeSalvo. I`m still not sure about independent. I think its more of a price issue than anything else but ill drop them a line.

An outsider ive come across is Thylacine, they look good and ive sent a message thier way but im not sure if the price is competetive with the other builders. (comming from Aussie)

At first, I very well can understand you to put the question to this board. If one take a deeper look to the custom builder board, it ´ld be pretty obvious to better ask here but there.

Although I haven´t got that custom build experience yet, I contacted a few the builders mentioned above for that reason. It is only a matter a time, meaning matter of money for me. I´m pretty sure if I had to choose where to place an order now, I luckily would go with Walt from Waltworks, who was very responsive and helpfull, to build me a 650b hardtail.

Concerning ti, I guess you better keep Quiring on your radar.

If I were looking for a titanium bike in Europe, Darren Crisp would definitely be on the list.

My Ted Wojcik 29er, its the best bike I have owned or ridden. Ted will build anything you want, exactly as you want it. He absolutely nailed what I asked him for (which wasnt typical), and will do the same for you. Fwiw, my Ted is better in tight singletrack than my 26in custom Curtlo, which isnt a bad bike at all. Its actually a very good handling bike, but the Ted achieve's greatness imho. Anyone I have let ride it has to be torn away from it drooling ;) !. He's built far more 26er's than 29er's, so no problems there.

"I would also like to hear from some customers of Badger, Ted Wojcik and Pereira".

I can give you plenty of recommendations for Rob at Badger, but he's also a good friend of mine, so I don't have a lot of bad things to say about him. He's had some problems with delivery times of late that were mostly related to paint, but he's gotten that straightened out. He's been a little hard to get ahold of personally lately, b/c he's having some family issues (kid was in a car wreck). He's taking some extra time to focus on making sure his kid is okay at the moment (which is what I think a good parent should do). For the moment, it's best to contact Josh (his assistant) for faster response times, but Rob will get back to you. I honestly don't know too many builders out there that have more welding/fabrication experience than Rob.

Rob has no problem building 26" bikes, as I'm 99.5% sure is the case with any good builder. They all want to build the bike that's right for you. It's not like you've listed Willits or McClung. ;) Sounds like a fun bike.

Anyone know why some builders are anti lugs? Is it simply too much hassel ?



btw, im based in Norway (thats northern europe or scandinavia for those who dont know)

No, it's not that lugs are too much hassle, it's just that they are limited to a few angles which don't allow for anything other than a very traditional (ie, early 90's) looking MTB. If you really wanted a lugged frame and wanted, say a radically sloping top tube, most builders can make a custom lug from 4130 to fit- but now we are talking $$$$$$ with no performance advantage.

For a Norweigan custom builder (I don't know if he's up and running yet after his recent move) but you might want to look up Truls at Johnsen Frameworks .

I have spoken to Mr. Johnsen and he has a vary keen eye for detail.

http://www.johnsenframeworks.com/img/jfw_heart_1.jpg

Unfortunatley for him, living in expensive noway and me not being a patriot I can choose any of the best on this list at a comparable price (if not cheaper) including shipping from the US because of the low dollar.

I have e-mailed my favorites on the list and erikson has already replied and enthusiasticly (sp??) even with my numerous challenges without any form of confirmation that I will choose him. I even mentioned that I am in contact with others.

Just after a couple of e-mails with this fella I feel like I am in very good hands and with the winter season comming thick and fast I am even considering selling my 6 inch bouncer to speed the prosess up. He is now working on a geo diagram for my size and type of riding.

I might just be on a winner here.

Maybe you can elaborate here on the Badger paint, but I heard the reason that paintwork was behind is that Rob's painter had some family issues and got behind on painting frames as a result. Rather than source another painter, Rob wanted to wait until his painter was able to return to work, keeping his painter in work for quite some time rather than going to the poor house. While I may have worded this poorly, I can definately stand behind a guy who tries to do the right thing by his painter. He may have made customers upset, but I would be willing to wait for a product if I knew the reason behind waiting was a good one (as was the case with Badger).

And in addition, his painter can lay down a mean paint job!.

That is why Rob is on my very short list if I end up with a custom steel bike.

Late last year Rob's painter's mother was in a really bad car accident that basically forced him to go live with her for a while in another city until she could take care of herself again. Rob stood by him b/c a)he lays down some mean paint and b)it was the right thing to do. I know Rob took some knocks for the timeframe thing (b/c no one believes the "it's in paint" excuse), but it was a legitimate delay. Rob's other option would have been to search out someone else that could live up to his standards, but then all of his frames would have been put at the end of a great painter's queue, and the timeframe would likely have been the same. Rather than blame it on his painter, Rob just took it on the chin.

I recently received my Badger and Keith Anderson did the painting. He does beautiful work and uses wet paint. I believe Rob's previous painter used powder coat? I think I see a photo of my bike on Mr. Anderson's site.

http://www.keithandersoncycles.com/KAC.com/paint.html

Hi fux, the pic of the ti lugged tube, who does it?

thats not ti, its just unpainted, but finely finished fillet brazed steel.

FWIW, I had posted a similar thread a few weeks ago, in which I began collecting web links. Here's the list I had assembled - by no means complete, but it's a start.

-Michael

Curtlo: http://www.curtlo.com/
Quiring: http://quiringcycles.net/
Waltworks: http://www.waltworks.com/dev/index.php
Thylacine: http://www.thylacinecycles.com/frame...te&colour=gold
Gunnar: http://www.gunnarbikes.com/
Spot: http://www.spotbikes.com/
Engin: http://www.engincycles.com/
Willits: http://www.willitsbikes.com/
Badger: http://www.badgercycles.com
Independent Fab: http://www.ifbikes.com/
Soulcraft: http://www.soulcraftbikes.com/
Wolfhound: http://wolfhoundcycles.com/

Just to make sure you don't rule out Black Sheep... James makes fantastic Ti and Steel bikes. I received mine (Ti) faster than quoted and it was cheaper than I anticipated. All that aside, it is an amazing bike and I would recommend doing business with Black Sheep to anyone.

Eriksen was also on my short list. As were Strong, DeSalvo, Curtlo, Quiring, Spot, Walt, IF, etc etc. I did what you did and sent emails and called each of them to get a feel for which builder was the best match. James was phenomenal to deal with throughout the process.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y292/cruelcycles/CrispTI-032.jpg
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=218230&page=3&highlight=crisp
http://www.crisptitanium.com

I had a great experience purchasing a bike from Steelman Cycles in Redwood City. Brent Steelman does a lot of custom bike fitting for remote customers and really takes the time to understand the type of riding you do, what you are looking for in the bike and so on. You will wait a while for a Steelman but in my experience well worth it.
http://www.steelmancycles.com/

I had a great experience purchasing a bike from Steelman Cycles in Redwood City. Brent Steelman does a lot of custom bike fitting for remote customers and really takes the time to understand the type of riding you do, what you are looking for in the bike and so on. You will wait a while for a Steelman but in my experience well worth it.
http://www.steelmancycles.com/

Word is Steelman is no longer in business. It's been 3-4 months I believe.

I'm hanging on to my Steelman cross bike!!!

fc

Here is a beautiful Pereira being built.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79122810@N00/sets/72157602227635440/show/

Holy velo.

fc

check out soulcraft and waltworks.

i have a 29'er soulcraft that i had built to be used only as a singlespeed. it is a pure dream to ride and sean at soulcraft is a pleasure to work with and a perfectionist to boot.

i also have a waltworks 29'er that is equally enjoyable to ride. i had it built to be ridden either geared or ss. it is primarily used as my geared ride. walt is also very easy to work with and a perfectionist as well.

With a 28" inseam I'd recommend a 26er. It will fit way better and that is going to be more important than the benefit of riding big wheels. You're right, there aren't a lot of 26" Pereiras out there, but the tire size doesn't change a lot regarding how they are constructed. Get the trail and the CG balance right and it will rock. A good example is Freddy's:
http://www.pereiracycles.com/gallery/fred/index.php
Have questions? Feel free to email me.
-Tony
P.S. I thought Wojcik quit building and was trying to sell off his shop. Maybe he jumped back in, I don't know. He is a very skilled builder.

You know reading this thread really drove home the fact that what makes a great frame is great customer service. All the builders here were recommended on the basis of customer service, professionalism, and integrity. I wish I would have read this thread a few months ago when I made the mistake of dealing with a so called professional builder who turned out to be the antithesis of customer service. Needless to say I lost a good chunk of change on a bad deal with a bad person. I did not listen to my gut from day one with this guy as I was too trusting, not based on recommendations like you find here, but the willingness to believe (foolishness so) that someone in this industry must have integrity by virtue of the fact that they are bike builders. Well there's bad people in all professions and you can't go wrong when you see advice like that found here which raves over the professionalism of true pro's in the industry.

P.S. I thought Wojcik quit building and was trying to sell off his shop. Maybe he jumped back in, I don't know. He is a very skilled builder.

Back in business, with some great deals.

Word is Steelman is no longer in business. It's been 3-4 months I believe.

I'm hanging on to my Steelman cross bike!!!

fc

Are you positive?...that would be a bummer...Kelly and now Steelman

I went to the website and it makes no mention of being out of business. Looks like the website was updated a couple of days ago (judging by the notation at top of home page), so hopefully Brent is still in biz.

MSH

I am back and building as many frames as I can. I work alone and I can only do so much. I'm in new digs and have a few surprises in the works. There is a definite interest in the classic New England single track hardtail again. Not everyone can ride a 29'er, and the "point and shoot" single track frame that many here in the Northeast learned to love is again being ordered by the more intense single track rider. This type of geometry is best for the more experienced who demands a bike that reacts as quick as the thought enters their mind. I think we will see more 27 1/2" wheeled bikes in the woods, too. This seems like a good answer to riding over cobbled bumps while reducing the drawback of gearing that is too high and a better front end geometry based on the current availabilty of suspension fork offsets. Single track rules and carving up the trails with a scapel like frame geometry still appeals to many of the veteran trail riders here in the Northeast. Light simple bikes are making a comeback. If you get a chance take one out for a ride.

Ted Wojcik

Ted,
That's great news. I've always admired your work. I grew up in connecticut and cut my teeth on New England singletrack. I miss it. There are a few trails out here in Oregon that remind me of home, but the terrain is a bit different. You coming to NAHBS? It's a great time.
-Tony

Hi Tony, thanks for the kind words. It is hard for me to plan that far ahead right now, but I would love to go. It is very far away, and I might get lost. If the show comes to the East coast, I will be there with a bunch of stuff. The frame shop has had it's ups and downs in the past few years as I have, but now I have the opportunity to get things rolling again. I see a bit more stability in the types of frames being ordered today. Less attention to the fringe and more interest in what we worked so hard to refine in frame geometry for our geographic region. I have always tried to emphasize fit and finish to justify the prices that we must get for our frame business to survive. Some how in the past few years, many have forgotten the reward of simplicity in the tools we use to explore our natural resources. I would look forward to chatting with you as well as many of the others at show. We will see if I can make it.

Ted

I am back and building as many frames as I can. I work alone and I can only do so much. I'm in new digs and have a few surprises in the works. There is a definite interest in the classic New England single track hardtail again. Not everyone can ride a 29'er, and the "point and shoot" single track frame that many here in the Northeast learned to love is again being ordered by the more intense single track rider. This type of geometry is best for the more experienced who demands a bike that reacts as quick as the thought enters their mind. I think we will see more 27 1/2" wheeled bikes in the woods, too. This seems like a good answer to riding over cobbled bumps while reducing the drawback of gearing that is too high and a better front end geometry based on the current availabilty of suspension fork offsets. Single track rules and carving up the trails with a scapel like frame geometry still appeals to many of the veteran trail riders here in the Northeast. Light simple bikes are making a comeback. If you get a chance take one out for a ride.

Ted Wojcik

Thats what im talking bout' :thumbsup: !!! . Man its good to see you (its Gene, by the way, check out my avitar!) on the 29er forum Ted :D . I have been posting about you on here for a long time, but nothing beats hearing from the man himself. I too am interested in the 27 1/2" bikes as a workable alternative to 26ers or 29ers. I know some dont want to hear that, but I want to try it first before I form an opinion, just like I did with the 29er. Even the 29er front 27.5er rear sounds interesting to me. Not to replace my 29er, but to see if there are any merits to these designs. If so, add em' to the stable I say!!!!. And I know just who to call to build mines ;) .
"Light simple bikes ARE making a comeback". Look at all the chi chi, bling, bling ss bikes with rigid forks on this forum. Guys are combining ultimate simplicity with top shelf frames and components, which is awesome imho. If I never see another 6'x6' bike with a gazillion suspension adjustments in another mag review it will be fine with me. To me they are "couchs' on wheels" of which I have zero interest (at least for xc riding). I know, I know...I am in the minority, but I usually am so at least I am consistent, lol.

Ted,
have been following this thread and feel as Tony did that i should reply.

i think it is great that a veteran like Ted is back in business and keeping the New England spirit alive. always liked your bikes and your style. if you have the ability to get to NAHBS i will tell you it is a great time. i think if you look at the list of builders that go to NAHBS you will see a great collection of people with lots to offer when it comes to conversation and style.

if you are ever in Philadelphia and want to get a beer and visit the shop feel free to call. www.engincycles.com

-drew@engin cycles

ps- the 650b bikes are a great answer to the non 29R riders. it is a great combination of a bit more roll over capacity and quick acceleration and handling.

Now if someone could just resurrect fat chance.... ;)

Now if someone could just resurrect fat chance.... ;)


you ever heart of that top secret really unknown unspectacular seldomly desired custom company "independent fabrication"?

Pssssst

Now if someone could just resurrect fat chance.... ;)

Marcus, you already know a quality framebuilder.

Walt built my 26 inch Single Speed. If you can patiently wait you'll be richly rewarded with a nice frame.

Dude, no mentions of Steve Garro at Coconino?
There are a lot of little builders popping up, like vertigo
http://www.vertigocycles.com/

A quick reply to your post. Thanks for the encouragement. I pretty much work alone, so it would be quite a task dragging everything that far West. I am going to try to go and I'm sure I would enjoy it. There are a lot of old acquaintances that would be fun to see. If you are ever in Southern N.H., I'll buy the beer