There were a few posts a while back where a possible 29er frame was mentioned.

Here's one (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=2310482#post2310482):
While we don't have a 29" frame currently, the Endorphin frame would definitely be the platform for us to do that with... I'll leave it at that for now

Noel
There's another somewhere but I can't find it (Edit: found it here (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=2674639#post2674639)).

Any new/additional info about development or potential production?

I want a 650B Knolly 1st.

oh fark, not a 29 knolly :nono:

I want a 650B Knolly 1st.
Why?

oh fark, not a 29 knolly :nono:
Why not?

Why?


I think you may find Noel's comments very interesting....

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/pacenti-introducing-650b-mtb-tires-11794

I think you may find Noel's comments very interesting....

http://www.bikeradar.com/news/article/pacenti-introducing-650b-mtb-tires-11794
They are interesting. I'm curious to see how this whole 650B sizing thing develops. As far as the 29er comments go, I'm staying out of that conversation because I've had my fill of being chastised (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=3529212#post3529212) by manufacturers for my outlandish ideas.

BTW, the link at the bottom of the page for Turner Suspension Bicycles is actually a link to Knollybikes.com. Not sure what the story is with that.

Can I have one of each? I'm serious. I'd love to have a 650B Endorphin. Actually, I'd love to have an Endorphin or DT, period. You could put circus monkey wheels on it and I'd buy it.

Hey PC, I remember the thread you refer to, I thought some of your ideas and questions were pretty good, actually. Thinking outside the box is difficult for some, less so for others.

How about a circus monkey on wheels?

http://www.uwm.edu/People/robertb5/MrTeeny.jpg


You could put circus monkey wheels on it and I'd buy it.

to me the perfect bike would be a Knolly Endorphin with 160mm of travel, designed to mate well with a 1.5 Fox 36 fork, and 650B wheels.

how bout we let Noel actually try to meet his current (excellent) plan which is ambitious enough??

hey noel, forgot what you are working on and make a 7" lightweight (gotta be lightweight as thats the MOST important thing) carbon FS 29er with no pedal bob, no flex, maxle rear and while you are at it, make a 7" 29er fork with thru axle....oh yeah, make em all cheap to please. Thanks for your taking the time to address this request.

how bout we let Noel actually try to meet his current (excellent) plan which is ambitious enough??

hey noel, forgot what you are working on and make a 7" lightweight (gotta be lightweight as thats the MOST important thing) carbon FS 29er with no pedal bob, no flex, maxle rear and while you are at it, make a 7" 29er fork with thru axle....oh yeah, make em all cheap to please. Thanks for your taking the time to address this request.

shoot! forgot the maxle rear - good catch! ;)

to me the perfect bike would be a Knolly Endorphin with 160mm of travel, designed to mate well with a 1.5 Fox 36 fork, and 650B wheels.
A long-travel Endorphin is in the works, according to this post (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=3287087&highlight=endorphin#post3287087). No mention of wheel-sizing though, I assume standard 26" wheels.

how bout we let Noel actually try to meet his current (excellent) plan which is ambitious enough??
I'm not asking about anything that he didn't already comment on (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=2674639#post2674639).
We are also looking to do a 29" version of the Endorphin as well.
And I never mentioned carbon fiber or amount of travel, lord knows I've learned my lesson about commenting on specifics. Noel can comment or not on development as he sees fit, my post doesn't have to distract him from his duties.

And you're such a hypocrite, because you'd be drooling all over a Knolly 29er just like the rest of us slobs.

shoot! forgot the maxle rear - good catch! ;)
i'm not talking to you....i am still offended by your comments about my chubbie

hey noel, forgot what you are working on and make a 7" lightweight (gotta be lightweight as thats the MOST important thing)...

Hey Faux - remember these (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=67045&highlight=rocky+mountain+element) days???


here are the specs and they were all purchased brand new...i bought about 1 or 2 parts a month since early in the year and it sure was fun!!

They weighed it at the shop and it came out to 23.5 lbs.

It actually did not replace a bike I had but I did sell a bike to provide money to build it up. I sold a Bullit which was overkill for me. I also have a Ventana X-5 with 6" rockers which is more than enough for me.

To answer your question, I honestly could see this as a trailbike for probably 95% of people out there. I am blown away with how it handles the trails. To answer another part of your question, the fork is 80mm. However, it is a killer fork and the bike just is so fast and handles things at speed incredibly well. I am sure it feels great on the trail since I built it up to take some reasonable abuse with a very solid wheelset, and riser bars. I swear, and I still cant believe this to be the case, but on all but real gnarly downhill, I think I lose nothing to my Ventana...which is why I am so impressed with the bike. Had I gone with v-brakes, flat bars, longer flatter stem, girly man wheelset, SID fork, it would be an entirely different story and I would hate it. As built, I would not change a single part. Because it is so awesome on the trails, I will be using it way more than I initially thought i would.

frame = Rocky Mountain Element Sc Team (19")
cranks = Race Face Deus
fork = 2005 Marzocchi Marathon Race
wheelset = King ISO hubs / DT Swiss XR4.1d rims / Supercomp spokes / alloy nipples
brakes = Magura Marta SLs
shifters = SRAM X.0
fr der = XTR
rear der = SRAM X.0
cassette = XT
chain = PC-99 Hollow pin
pedals = Shimano 959
seat = Rocket V Stealth
seatpost = Yeti Arc Aluminum
stem = Syntace F99 (120mm)
bars = Answer ProTaper Carbon
grips = ODI Rogue Lock-on
headset = Chris King
tires = Kenda Karma DTC
seatpost clamp = Hope
skewers = Hope


Cheers

Hey Faux - remember these (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=67045&highlight=rocky+mountain+element) days???


here are the specs and they were all purchased brand new...i bought about 1 or 2 parts a month since early in the year and it sure was fun!!

They weighed it at the shop and it came out to 23.5 lbs.

It actually did not replace a bike I had but I did sell a bike to provide money to build it up. I sold a Bullit which was overkill for me. I also have a Ventana X-5 with 6" rockers which is more than enough for me.

To answer your question, I honestly could see this as a trailbike for probably 95% of people out there. I am blown away with how it handles the trails. To answer another part of your question, the fork is 80mm. However, it is a killer fork and the bike just is so fast and handles things at speed incredibly well. I am sure it feels great on the trail since I built it up to take some reasonable abuse with a very solid wheelset, and riser bars. I swear, and I still cant believe this to be the case, but on all but real gnarly downhill, I think I lose nothing to my Ventana...which is why I am so impressed with the bike. Had I gone with v-brakes, flat bars, longer flatter stem, girly man wheelset, SID fork, it would be an entirely different story and I would hate it. As built, I would not change a single part. Because it is so awesome on the trails, I will be using it way more than I initially thought i would.

frame = Rocky Mountain Element Sc Team (19")
cranks = Race Face Deus
fork = 2005 Marzocchi Marathon Race
wheelset = King ISO hubs / DT Swiss XR4.1d rims / Supercomp spokes / alloy nipples
brakes = Magura Marta SLs
shifters = SRAM X.0
fr der = XTR
rear der = SRAM X.0
cassette = XT
chain = PC-99 Hollow pin
pedals = Shimano 959
seat = Rocket V Stealth
seatpost = Yeti Arc Aluminum
stem = Syntace F99 (120mm)
bars = Answer ProTaper Carbon
grips = ODI Rogue Lock-on
headset = Chris King
tires = Kenda Karma DTC
seatpost clamp = Hope
skewers = Hope


Cheers



friggin trashdigger! :)

dude, i wish i NEVER sold that bike :( was a psick XC FS bike. May just need to build another one :)

I am definitely schizo.....currently have a 19.5 lb bike as well.....makes no sense. On the RFX, I dont care about weight at its almost twice that weight.

weight honestly makes no difference to me on an AM bike and I am not as stupid as most people who actually guage the whole of the bike by the frame weight when in truth, even a (relatively) heavy frame only account for 25% of total bike weight.

most people who actually guage the whole of the bike by the frame weight when in truth, even a (relatively) heavy frame only account for 25% of total bike weight.
That's true, my RFX weighs 40lbs and the frame is only around 9.5lbs. But what's that got to do with a Knolly 29er?

That's true, my RFX weighs 40lbs and the frame is only around 9.5lbs. But what's that got to do with a Knolly 29er?
i suppose nothing.

i just think people (ie, humans with hopefully some level of intellect) need to realize Noel runs a business that actually involves plans, which may include 29ers at some point, but in the meantime needs to follow a plan that makes a lot of sense to him and no doubt consumers.

Not sure if people are aware but Noel's operation is a tad smaller than Specialized who only themselves just released a ghey 29er.

29ers have their place but as Noel makes bikes for people without pantyliners on their lycra bibs, i am sure it is best for him to wait for 29er forks and the such to catch up anyway before he caters to the 29er poser crowd.

Just because someone's a poseur doesn't make them a bad person.

hey noel, forgot what you are working on and make a 7" lightweight (gotta be lightweight as thats the MOST important thing) carbon FS 29er with no pedal bob, no flex, maxle rear and while you are at it, make a 7" 29er fork with thru axle....oh yeah, make em all cheap to please. Thanks for your taking the time to address this request.
You sound like Davidcopperfield, only with better English grammar. :p

IF it happens, it won't be any time soon. Once he got into the nuts and bolts of actual design work, he found that the current suspension design of the Endorphin didn't work as well as he'd hoped in a 29'er format. There were too many compromises that he wasn't willing to make just for the sake of getting one out this year. As always, Noel would rather get it done right than get it done more quickly.

Larry
Mountain High Cyclery
larry@mtnhighcyclery.com

friggin trashdigger!
Need words of wisdom from y'all V-diddys.......

Cost is a priority so I am not looking to spend a fortune......so keeping in mind that my components/wheels are in excellent condition and can hopefully get a few coins from a potential sale, what might be a logical consideration to get this bike lighter without breaking the bank. I wish I knew how much it weighed.....but I dont.

The obvious things to me are (1) air shock[savings=?], (2) lighter wheels[save 0.5 pound with just a rim switch], (3) lighter brakes? [not sure how much would save], (4) lighter fork [about 1 pound], (5) pedals [about 0.4 pounds],

used weight weenies to get weights...should be pretty close:

Cummulative Total 14600.1 grams 32.2 pounds
Frame = Lg X-5, quad, 6" rockers, Van RC 3464.1 7.6
cranks = XT 752 685.0 1.5
bb = ES71 255.0 0.6
fork = Marz AM1 2250.0 5.0
wheelset = Syncros DS28/Hope Bulbs 2100.0 4.6
brakes = Magura Louise FR 210mm/190mm 950.0 2.1
shifters = X.0 twist 198.0 0.4
fr der = XT 124.0 0.3
rear der = SRAM X.9 260.0 0.6
cassette = XT 300.0 0.7
chain = SRAM 320.0 0.7
pedals = Shimano 545 555.0 1.2
seat = WTB Laser V Stealth 265.0 0.6
seatpost = Thomson 270.0 0.6
stem = Thomson 200.0 0.4
bars = EA70 260.0 0.6
grips = shorty rogue lock ons 90.0 0.2
headset = Cane Creek S2 114.0 0.3
tubes = normal 360.0 0.8
tires = Kenda Cortez 2.4s 1430.0 3.2
seatpost clamp = DKG 40.0 0.1
skewers = Hope steel 110.0 0.2

This was on an AM bike if memory serves (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1115278). Excel spreadsheet anyone? :)

This was on an AM bike if memory serves (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1115278). Excel spreadsheet anyone? :)

not applicable in the least. few things to consider:

1) long time ago with rules now different

2) was not an am bike anyway. it was a xc bike as it was 28 lbs (am are greater than 30 by definition) so spreadhseets are allowed.

3) foshizzle is an idiot so not sure what your point is anyway.

Ouch! Is your back ok? Those goalposts look heavy.

I think the best way for getting Noel to make a 29'r is to kidnap him and take him someplace where 29'rs are fun to ride.

Vancouver is -- well lets just say the local rides aren't exactly 29r friendly.

Vancouver is -- well lets just say the local rides aren't exactly 29r friendly.
Point noted.

IF it happens, it won't be any time soon. Once he got into the nuts and bolts of actual design work, he found that the current suspension design of the Endorphin didn't work as well as he'd hoped in a 29'er format. There were too many compromises that he wasn't willing to make just for the sake of getting one out this year. As always, Noel would rather get it done right than get it done more quickly.
Done right is fine with me. I'm in no rush.

not applicable in the least. few things to consider:

1) long time ago with rules now different

2) was not an am bike anyway. it was a xc bike as it was 28 lbs (am are greater than 30 by definition) so spreadhseets are allowed.

3) foshizzle is an idiot so not sure what your point is anyway.

It's okay bro

how bout we let Noel actually try to meet his current (excellent) plan which is ambitious enough??

hey noel, forgot what you are working on and make a 7" lightweight (gotta be lightweight as thats the MOST important thing) carbon FS 29er with no pedal bob, no flex, maxle rear and while you are at it, make a 7" 29er fork with thru axle....oh yeah, make em all cheap to please. Thanks for your taking the time to address this request.

I take it you want a full range of sizes as well, so that you can purchase this bike in both Small and X-Small frame sizes with 26" of stand over clearance?

Cool - no problem!

Also, we're working on a new rubber top tube so that when you ratch yourself on it, it just bends downwards and you don't get hurt.

Cheers!

Hey Everyone!

Sooooo..... It's pretty fun to let the E-speculation continue, but I might as well chime in and to let everyone know where we're at.

Originally when the Endorphin was conceived, it was going to be a 140mm trail bike that could also morph into two other models: a long travel trail bike (with around 160mm of travel) and a 29er version as well.

The original 140mm version is what we've just brought to market - it was supposed to be shipping in the Spring, but we were late by about 3-4 months and frames have just started shipping these past two weeks. Obviously, we are pretty ecstatic with the publics reception of the Endorphin! As it is, we're currently pretty slammed filling back orders for these frames, not to mention dealing with the "post Interbike" craziness, fluctuating CDN / USD exchange rate, 2008 pricing, and all that other fun stuff.

Just as an aside, dulyebr your frame shipped out towards the end of last week, so you should see it at RBB shortly!

For 2008 we need to work hard on getting our manufacturing, inventory, and parts kits dialed. We're still a pretty young company and these things are not where we'd like them to be. As well, we're currently working hard to get the "back end" of the website updated as well, so that we can be much more on top of it and keep it a lot more current than it has been in the past.

In terms of new models, we're going to put stuff on hold for a bit - we really, really need to get the production, inventory, and build kits of our currently three models dialed this year. For example, we're been completely sold out of V-tach frames for the past 3 months and won't have any new ones for at least another 3 months. That's a huge issue for both us and our dealers and it needs to be fixed. So these issues have to be our focus for the next while going into the 2008 buying season.

New models: Well, obviously there is a lot that we want to do: get the Free Radical to market, the Long Travel Endorphin, a larger wheel sized Endorphin (see below on that), a DH race frame, probably a second hard tail (DJ frame), and a few other projects here and there.

The issue with the Endorphin 29er is this: For me, the wheel path isn't ideal and I don't want to bring a frame to market just to capitalize on a hot market segment. Probably not the smartest thing to do from a sales perspective, but then again, we're a company that sells A LOT based on customer referrals and customer feed back, and VERY LITTLE on advertising. So, I want to ensure that every product that we make is dialed.

Interestingly enough, Kirk Pancetti's 650B stuff started to pop up just as I was discovering that a 5.5" travel Endorphin 29er was giving me some grief. The 650B is interesting and might be a nice middle ground for people looking for one of these kinds of bikes. It's more appealing to me from an engineering perspective as well, as it can use a lot of current parts on the market, in particular forks. However, we're not in a position to jump on this bandwagon right away - we need to ensure that this makes sense and is going to take off, then we will start seriously looking at it.

So, that's where we are right now!

Cheers!

Noel

This was on an AM bike if memory serves (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=1115278). Excel spreadsheet anyone? :)

I think you pretty much need a spreadsheet to keep track of all the forums Fo version 1 or 2 posts on . . . . :D

Interestingly enough, Kirk Pancetti's 650B stuff started to pop up just as I was discovering that a 5.5" travel Endorphin 29er was giving me some grief. The 650B is interesting and might be a nice middle ground for people looking for one of these kinds of bikes. It's more appealing to me from an engineering perspective as well, as it can use a lot of current parts on the market, in particular forks. However, we're not in a position to jump on this bandwagon right away - we need to ensure that this makes sense and is going to take off, then we will start seriously looking at it.

So, that's where we are right now!

Cheers!

Noel

Hey Noel, thx for the info. Your bikes rock. Any consideration being given to a 650B DT? That, in my mind, would be the dope, only because I'm considering a DT or Turner Highline for my next bike purchase. I'm selfish that way :)

Ouch! Is your back ok? Those goalposts look heavy.
That was circus monkey funny! :thumbsup:

Knolly needs a 29er like Noel needs another hole in his head.

In my opinion, the 650B is the pin sticking the 29er balloon; I just hope it doesn't deflate both of them.

IMO, a 26'er is more suitable for riding the more interesting terrain this planet has to offer than a 29'er. I just think that the wheel path of a 29'er would be a bit weird for all the tight cornerning that I have to live with around here.
If I was living somewhere flatter with rolling terrain instead of a big push up and a long, steep, technical dh, I might consider a 650B to play around with.
If I was going to get a 29'er, I might as well seriously consider a road bike and a heart rate monitor (just to get more fit, of course).

So, that's where we are right now!
Cool deal. Do your thing man, no need to try to please these crazy 29er zealots. Oh, wait...it was me who started the thread. :o

Seriously, take care of business, and develop it as you see fit. Your approach seems to be working, the bikes are well-received and most of us on here who don't yet have one want one. A longer travel Endorphin sounds good too. Will it handle a Zoke 66? ;)

Some prototypes of 5" to 6" 29ers are kicking around, Lenz has got one and so does Niner. From what I've read it seems like compromises need to be made to make those frames work. I guess it's up to each manufacturer (and ultimately the consumer) to decide which compromises are acceptable and which are not.

Heck, it's not that big a deal to me either way, I like 26ers just fine. :D

Good luck with this years projects. :thumbsup:

Cool deal. Do your thing man, no need to try to please these crazy 29er zealots. Oh, wait...it was me who started the thread. :o

Seriously, take care of business, and develop it as you see fit. Your approach seems to be working, the bikes are well-received and most of us on here who don't yet have one want one. A longer travel Endorphin sounds good too. Will it handle a Zoke 66? ;)

Some prototypes of 5" to 6" 29ers are kicking around, Lenz has got one and so does Niner. From what I've read it seems like compromises need to be made to make those frames work. I guess it's up to each manufacturer (and ultimately the consumer) to decide which compromises are acceptable and which are not.

Heck, it's not that big a deal to me either way, I like 26ers just fine. :D

Good luck with this years projects. :thumbsup:
Noel,don't worrie about no stinken 29er.Rode the Endorphin yesterday WOW is this the real deal or what.BTW Noel just sent you a E-mail (about my PM)..Thanks.CF..

Noel,don't worrie about no stinken 29er.Rode the Endorphin yesterday WOW is this the real deal or what.BTW Noel just sent you a E-mail (about my PM)..Thanks.CF..
Only reason I wish Noel would do a 29er soon is cuz I would like for him to give a smack down to all the Sultan zealot beyatches so they would shut their pieholes!

Noel, it saddens me that folks like yourself have to pull out the wheel measuring tape to appease the lycra clad crowd. However, I completely understand the need for you to do so, but I also have no doubt that you vomit after every time you are asked to resize a wheel size and frame/bike/etc.....all the marketeers can just piss off for what they have done!
Congrats on getting your name back, homie!

Only reason I wish Noel would do a 29er soon is cuz I would like for him to give a smack down to all the Sultan zealot beyatches so they would shut their pieholes!


Apparently you haven't heard.........the 650b is where its at ! :D TIG.