What are everyone's thoughts on a 170mm travel fork on a V-tach? Looks like the Knolly website specs the V-tach with a 559mm A2C height fork, which is pretty close to the 555mm of a 2006 Zoke 66. Which is what I've got.

Long story short, I'm looking to go from one bike (a RFX) to two bikes, a shorter travel trail bike and a big hit bike. The V-tach would take over the "one bike" role at first (serve trail and lift-service duties) and if the website specs are correct, it seems that I could steepen the HA to around 68* for the trail rides and slacken it to about 66* for DHing. I'd eventually look to put an 888 on the front when I get another trail bike.

So anyone running a "shorter" fork on their V-tach, or have any input? TIA.

Hey PCinSC:

Yup, 170mm is kind of the recommended minimum fork length for the V-tach, so you'll be fine. I've ridden that exact fork before on the V-tach and it will definitely work well with the frame.

In terms of the geometry adjustment, the 68* setting is probably something that you won't want to do too much with a 7 or 8" fork on the front - it's really too steep and you might find that you're getting pitched over the front due to fork dive. Being able to adjust the frame that steep is more for situations where there is a really long fork on the front of the bike (think 2004 - 2005 888s and current 203mm Travis forks) or for small riders who might be running 24" rear wheels. Being able to adjust the geometry to a steeper position will really help compensate for a rider who would otherwise find the geometry too slack when the fork ACs start getting into the 580 - 600mm range.

If you want to make the bike more pedal friendly, the most important thing to do would be to have a lighter weight wheelset. That will make a WAY bigger difference.

Cheers!

Noel

Thanks for the reply. Good to hear that it'd work OK.
In terms of the geometry adjustment...
Your discussion of the geometry changes made me curious. When the HTA is adjusted, what other specs change along with it? Does the BB height or STA change at all?
If you want to make the bike more pedal friendly, the most important thing to do would be to have a lighter weight wheelset. That will make a WAY bigger difference.
A V-tach would probably only be around 3lbs heavier than my RFX, assuming a similar wheelset. Not much different between 40 and 43lbs, they're both heavy. The V-tach would likely be a bit more balanced front to back in terms of travel, though.

There's a V-tach demo at a shop that's semi-local to me, I'm gonna see if I can get a ride on it. Thanks again.

Oh yeah...I'm 5'11", with a true 33" inseam. I assume I'd be best off with a medium?

I am 5'9 with a 31" inseam and ride a medium. For your size I would lean towards a large V-tach.




Thanks for the reply. Good to hear that it'd work OK.

Your discussion of the geometry changes made me curious. When the HTA is adjusted, what other specs change along with it? Does the BB height or STA change at all?

A V-tach would probably only be around 3lbs heavier than my RFX, assuming a similar wheelset. Not much different between 40 and 43lbs, they're both heavy. The V-tach would likely be a bit more balanced front to back in terms of travel, though.

There's a V-tach demo at a shop that's semi-local to me, I'm gonna see if I can get a ride on it. Thanks again.

Oh yeah...I'm 5'11", with a true 33" inseam. I assume I'd be best off with a medium?

6'5" on a large V-Tach.
I have a totem on mine. Fells nice.
Yes the BB height changes with the HA, Not sure of the measurements but it does.

I was wondering recently if it is better to get a 66rc3 with the 1.5 steer tube, or should I go 1.125... I'm wondering because I've never been able to look at how the head-angle adjuster works. What size headset can you run? What is the best set-up... Help Noel! :confused:

Thanks for the reply. Good to hear that it'd work OK.

Your discussion of the geometry changes made me curious. When the HTA is adjusted, what other specs change along with it? Does the BB height or STA change at all?

A V-tach would probably only be around 3lbs heavier than my RFX, assuming a similar wheelset. Not much different between 40 and 43lbs, they're both heavy. The V-tach would likely be a bit more balanced front to back in terms of travel, though.

There's a V-tach demo at a shop that's semi-local to me, I'm gonna see if I can get a ride on it. Thanks again.

Oh yeah...I'm 5'11", with a true 33" inseam. I assume I'd be best off with a medium?

Probably a medium frame for sure, unless you have really long arms. typically the way our sizing works is:

X-Small: 5'3" and below
Small: 5'4" to about 5'6 or 5'7"
Medium: about 5'7" to about 5'11"
Large 6'0" to about 6'4"
X-large 6'4" and taller

Of course, there are variances due to body geometry: i.e. a 5'11" tall person with a longer torso and shorter legs will probably fit a large frame better than a medium frame due to top tube length considerations, but generally, if the torso / leg length are fairly consistent with "the norm", a 5'11" person will be most comfortable on a medium frame.

In terms of the head angle adjustment:

Yes, if you slacken the bike out, the BB height will lower and if you steepen the geometry, the BB height will raise up. there is about a 20mm range of BB height total, for the 2 degrees of head angle adjustment

The seat tube angle is specified with a 7" fork and the head angle adjuster in the middle of its range. A longer travel fork (like an 888 or a Fox 40) will kick the seat tube angle back a degree. Putting the bike in the slackest position will kick the seat tube angle back a degree. Both a longer travel fork and having the adjuster in the slackest position will kick the seat tube angle back 2 degrees. So, it probably has a rear range of 73-70 degrees depending upon fork choice and head angle adjuster setting.

Cheers!

Noel

I was wondering recently if it is better to get a 66rc3 with the 1.5 steer tube, or should I go 1.125... I'm wondering because I've never been able to look at how the head-angle adjuster works. What size headset can you run? What is the best set-up... Help Noel! :confused:


The 66RC3 forks apparently won't be out with 1.5" steerers until around the end of the year, according to my marzocchi contacts. We have a few 2008 66 RC3 forks in right now, but with 1.125" steerers.

The V-tach frame has a 1.5" head tube, so you can run what ever steerer size you want. Of course, 1.5" makes more sense if it's available (and stem choices are FINALLY starting to get reasonable, especially with big players like Raceface entering the market - finally! - with a 1.5 and 31.8mm stem), but they won't be available for a few months yet.

In terms of set up, that really, really depends upon what you want to do with the bike and what type of trails you plan to ride. Let me know and I can probably point you in the right direction :)

PCinSC: also, i forgot to mention: the Delirium T will probably be a closer fit to your fork travel wise (160 vs 170mm) as the V-tach has just shy of 200mm of travel. Also, the Delirium T will be a closer match to the RFX ride wise too - the V-tach is slung fairly low and stable - not DH low, but certainly 8" free ride bike low. however, if you want a bike for serious terrain and trails and for lift / shuttle service riding, then the V-tach is probably the right choice. We can talk more in detail when you're ready to pull the trigger - probably a pre-arranged phone call would be best to really sus out your exact needs.

Cheers!

Noel

The 66RC3 forks apparently won't be out with 1.5" steerers until around the end of the year, according to my marzocchi contacts. We have a few 2008 66 RC3 forks in right now, but with 1.125" steerers.

The V-tach frame has a 1.5" head tube, so you can run what ever steerer size you want. Of course, 1.5" makes more sense if it's available (and stem choices are FINALLY starting to get reasonable, especially with big players like Raceface entering the market - finally! - with a 1.5 and 31.8mm stem), but they won't be available for a few months yet.

PCinSC: also, i forgot to mention: the Delirium T will probably be a closer fit to your fork travel wise (160 vs 170mm) as the V-tach has just shy of 200mm of travel. Also, the Delirium T will be a closer match ride wise too - the V-tach is slung fairly low and stable - not DH low, but certainly 8" free ride bike low. however, if you want a bike for serious terrain and trails and for lift / shuttle service riding, then the V-tach is probably the right choice. We can talk more in detail when you're ready to pull the trigger - probably a pre-arranged phone call would be best to really sus out your exact needs.

Cheers!

Noel
Noel, thanks for watching the thread. So what kind of bottom bracket numbers would I get with the 66rc3? I will be running either Michelin Comp16 or Maxxis Minions. (I am guessing that the head angle adjuster works with any 1.5 headset...) If I go flush reducer style headset, what kind of numbers would come up? Sorry If I'm hurting your brain. :p

Noel, thanks for watching the thread. So what kind of bottom bracket numbers would I get with the 66rc3? I will be running either Michelin Comp16 or Maxxis Minions. (I am guessing that the head angle adjuster works with any 1.5 headset...) If I go flush reducer style headset, what kind of numbers would come up? Sorry If I'm hurting your brain. :p

Hey no problem with the answers! just got back from riding and the pub :)

The head angle adjuster is built into the rocker linkage assembly on the frame. Basically it moves the rear wheel up and down, which equates to a range of 2 degrees of adjustment. if you look on our website in the V-tach gallery here:

http://www.knollybikes.com/frames/vtach/frame-gallery.aspx

and look at the 5th picture (the one on the far right), you'll see a silver "cam" between the two rocker links. This cam can rotate a certain amount and by rotating it, you adjust the head angle (and as others mentioned, also the BB height and the seat tube angle). Basically, you can set the frame slack with a low BB height and steeper with a higher BB height.

If you're bombing down Whistler bike park and like to go fast, then you might set the head angle slacker / BB height lower. if you're climbing fireroads to your technical trails and they're a mixture of technical riding with stunts, then a more moderate position head angle position (i.e around the middle of the range) will be best. The steepest settings isn't really to have a steep head angle (you're not going to really want to ride a V-tach with a 68* head angle), but mainly to offset longer travel forks with long AC lengths.

Cheers!

Noel

Here is a few up close pics of the adjuster. Let me know if it helps. It works great. Its a stroke of genius. Props to Noel.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/sikocycles/vtactadjust1.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/sikocycles/vtachadjust.jpg
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f380/sikocycles/vtachadjust2.jpg

Barb has been rocking the Totem Solo Air on her V-Tach all summer and has been sending it HUGE. No problem running the 170mm single crown to speak of.

Alright Noel, one last question I hope... (I know I'm a tweeker... :D ) Depending on headset height a little, If I run the head angle adjuster all the way slack with a 66rc3, what kind of angles and BB height can I expect to have? (I want a 1.5 steer tube fork, so I have to find a headset that is the most flush... Don't know what kind yet.)

Alright Noel, one last question I hope... (I know I'm a tweeker... :D ) Depending on headset height a little, If I run the head angle adjuster all the way slack with a 66rc3, what kind of angles and BB height can I expect to have? (I want a 1.5 steer tube fork, so I have to find a headset that is the most flush... Don't know what kind yet.)

Hey Cliffy!

With the 66 RC3 you're going to be around these angles:

Slack: 66* and BB height around 14.3"
Middle: 67* and BB height around 14.7"
Steep: 68* and BB height around 15.0" (I wouldn't recommend that you use this setting - too steep and tall).

Also, remember that our frames are fully progressive, and we usually run about 30% sag, so you can factor that into your BB height calculations.

Of course, BB height will vary a bit by fork, headset and tire size.

Cheers!

Slack: 66* and BB height around 14.3"

Ooooooooooo.... Yeah!!! :thumbsup:

Honestly man, the length of a fork hardly affects geometry anyway. Front end height is measured on an angle relative to the axle/crown length, so the actual change in height due to fork differences is pretty minimal.

More important that you get a good fork, and from the looks of things you've go t that dialled.

Honestly man, the length of a fork hardly affects geometry anyway. Front end height is measured on an angle relative to the axle/crown length, so the actual change in height due to fork differences is pretty minimal.

More important that you get a good fork, and from the looks of things you've go t that dialled.
Yeah, I know, but like I said... Tweeker! :D

Mostly, I wanted to see how close it would be to my 2006 Rocky Switch. RIP. I never liked the bottom bracket height, but the V-tach will be a smidge lower. I like that. :thumbsup:

OMG. You can't compare those two bikes. Different niche. The Delerium and the Switch are more in the same category, but still dramatically different to ride.

Rocky was our sponsor for 2 years. Great company, and cool bikes. Plus I ride with that Simmons retard a lot, and we trade off on bikes all the time.

I always felt like the Switch was skewed too far to the XC side for good descending and too heavy for fun climbing. I'd say the Switch is best suited for the northeast, where you need some girth in your bike to deal with the roughness, but it's not too steep for too long and you're going to have lots of little climbs and descents. That tall BB is a handy thing in country like that. The V-Tach is considerably lower, and will feel dramatically more stable.

Pedaling, Switch relies to a certain degree on pedal feedback to stiffen up the suspension while pedaling. It's also dramatically lighter, taller, and steeper than a V-Tach. You'll notice immediately that the suspension requires a different set of skills. With the fully active design, you apply the power to the ground in a slightly different part of your pedal stroke. sort of hard to explain in more detail than that, but if you're used to the Switch, you'll notice right away that you will have more "coast" on the pedals instead of that force pushing back from your rear spring. Feels almost like you're missing something, but that's actually efficient pedaling that you're experiencing.

Downhill? Ha! Hang the **** on......

OMG. You can't compare those two bikes. Different niche. The Delerium and the Switch are more in the same category, but still dramatically different to ride.

Rocky was our sponsor for 2 years. Great company, and cool bikes. Plus I ride with that Simmons retard a lot, and we trade off on bikes all the time.

I always felt like the Switch was skewed too far to the XC side for good descending and too heavy for fun climbing. I'd say the Switch is best suited for the northeast, where you need some girth in your bike to deal with the roughness, but it's not too steep for too long and you're going to have lots of little climbs and descents. That tall BB is a handy thing in country like that. The V-Tach is considerably lower, and will feel dramatically more stable.

Pedaling, Switch relies to a certain degree on pedal feedback to stiffen up the suspension while pedaling. It's also dramatically lighter, taller, and steeper than a V-Tach. You'll notice immediately that the suspension requires a different set of skills. With the fully active design, you apply the power to the ground in a slightly different part of your pedal stroke. sort of hard to explain in more detail than that, but if you're used to the Switch, you'll notice right away that you will have more "coast" on the pedals instead of that force pushing back from your rear spring. Feels almost like you're missing something, but that's actually efficient pedaling that you're experiencing.

Downhill? Ha! Hang the **** on......

Oooh Jeesh, there goes the neighborhood. It took the opening of the Knolly forum to bring Smoke over to mtbr...... ;) :p :p

Noel, dude....we need to get together with Muttonchops and get a ride in asap!

Cheers,
EB

Oooh Jeesh, there goes the neighborhood. It took the opening of the Knolly forum to bring Smoke over to mtbr...... ;) :p :p

Noel, dude....we need to get together with Muttonchops and get a ride in asap!

Cheers,
EB

I have some pedals for Mutton - is that slacker back from OZ yet?

:)

Around this weekend - let me know if you guys are gonna be up here!

Re: Smoke - I told him to play nicely here! :p

Cheers!

Noel

OMG. You can't compare those two bikes. Different niche. The Delerium and the Switch are more in the same category, but still dramatically different to ride.

Rocky was our sponsor for 2 years. Great company, and cool bikes. Plus I ride with that Simmons retard a lot, and we trade off on bikes all the time.

I always felt like the Switch was skewed too far to the XC side for good descending and too heavy for fun climbing. I'd say the Switch is best suited for the northeast, where you need some girth in your bike to deal with the roughness, but it's not too steep for too long and you're going to have lots of little climbs and descents. That tall BB is a handy thing in country like that. The V-Tach is considerably lower, and will feel dramatically more stable.

Pedaling, Switch relies to a certain degree on pedal feedback to stiffen up the suspension while pedaling. It's also dramatically lighter, taller, and steeper than a V-Tach. You'll notice immediately that the suspension requires a different set of skills. With the fully active design, you apply the power to the ground in a slightly different part of your pedal stroke. sort of hard to explain in more detail than that, but if you're used to the Switch, you'll notice right away that you will have more "coast" on the pedals instead of that force pushing back from your rear spring. Feels almost like you're missing something, but that's actually efficient pedaling that you're experiencing.

Downhill? Ha! Hang the **** on......


Hey man, that's good stuff!

Where you been all my life. :thumbsup:

OMG. You can't compare those two bikes. Different niche. The Delerium and the Switch are more in the same category, but still dramatically different to ride.

Rocky was our sponsor for 2 years. Great company, and cool bikes. Plus I ride with that Simmons retard a lot, and we trade off on bikes all the time.

I always felt like the Switch was skewed too far to the XC side for good descending and too heavy for fun climbing. I'd say the Switch is best suited for the northeast, where you need some girth in your bike to deal with the roughness, but it's not too steep for too long and you're going to have lots of little climbs and descents. That tall BB is a handy thing in country like that. The V-Tach is considerably lower, and will feel dramatically more stable.

Pedaling, Switch relies to a certain degree on pedal feedback to stiffen up the suspension while pedaling. It's also dramatically lighter, taller, and steeper than a V-Tach. You'll notice immediately that the suspension requires a different set of skills. With the fully active design, you apply the power to the ground in a slightly different part of your pedal stroke. sort of hard to explain in more detail than that, but if you're used to the Switch, you'll notice right away that you will have more "coast" on the pedals instead of that force pushing back from your rear spring. Feels almost like you're missing something, but that's actually efficient pedaling that you're experiencing.

Downhill? Ha! Hang the **** on......
Thanks for the input. I like the V-tach for many reasons beyond the comparison I was making. I really like it cause it has numbers close to my large Switch; i.e. seat tube and top tube length,(I would prefer an 18 inch seat tube instead of 19.5) comparible BB height, CS length ect. ect... but with the bonus of extra strength, better braking suspension, and a bit more travel. Thanks again Johnny!

I have some pedals for Mutton - is that slacker back from OZ yet?

:)

Around this weekend - let me know if you guys are gonna be up here!

Re: Smoke - I told him to play nicely here! :p

Cheers!

Noel

Yep, Mutton's back from Oz. He's been helping dig some new trails with me the last week or so. Give him a jingle.

I'm in Eugene, OR this weekend to watch a football game (mostly to party though), but I know Mutton has been talking about a Shore run this week. I'm sure he won't be hard to talk into it! :thumbsup:

EB

I'm in Eugene, OR this weekend to watch a football game (mostly to party though)...

umm, Blackrock?

I'm in Eugene, OR this weekend to watch a football game (mostly to party though)...

umm, Blackrock?

I'm in Eugene, OR this weekend to watch a football game (mostly to party though)...

umm, Blackrock?

umm, Blackrock?

Yeah, I know. :madman: I'm with a bunch of guys though and only one of them rides. The rest are mostly golfers, so I doubt I'll get them to swing out to Falls City whilst I huck my meat.

So it goes....not that bad taking a weekend off from riding, I suppose. :rolleyes:

EB