Has anyone other then me noticed a lack of lateral stiffness in the rear triangle ? If anyone has one of the Fantom DS's can you check if the rear triangle has lateral flex when you push right and left on the rear triangle from the top of it. Let me know.

just push on the top of where the rocker and the seat stay connect? i doubt it man....maybe push on the crank when it's in the down position with your foot, but any bike flexes like that...i'll check though...but mine seems plenty stiff....

just push on the top of where the rocker and the seat stay connect? i doubt it man....maybe push on the crank when it's in the down position with your foot, but any bike flexes like that...i'll check though...but mine seems plenty stiff....


The seat stays have alot of flex when pushed near the rocker from the right to the left. The rear triangle needs some bracing on the rockers like the Kona's and Ellsworths have. Check yours I doubt mine is any different from yours.

yeah i deffinatly checked mine, and there's no flex bro....i dunno what you're pushing with, or how hard, but mine dont flex at all....all the flex i see is from the tire...even pushing with my foot on the pedal when the crank is in the 6 o'clock position, it doesn't flex as much as my hardtail kona does...i say check all your pivots, make sure they're tight, etc....one time after i first built the bike and the frame and all was still settling in, i found the top mount for the shock had loosened a bit, and it had a lot of play vertically in the rear, like say you picked up the rear, and grabbed the rear wheel and moved it up and down, there was some play....but i tightened the bolt and i was fine....haven't had a prob since....the rockers on the moto are about 3/8's to 7/16, and i know the kona kikapu's and dawg's are about the same...same with turner....ellsworth's rockers are like 1" thick in some spots...turners dont use a brace between the rockers, and i've never heard anyone say that they flex too much....all i know is that a people always try to compare a moto full suspension to other full suspensions...when it shouldn't be done...yes they are comparable, if not better FOR THE PRICE....but do you HONESTLY think that a moto frame is going to hang with a kona dawg....i mean, look at the size of the chainstays on the dawg! they're twice as thick, and they run an asymetrical chain stay design, where the drive side is curved to make room for the derailleur, but the non drive side is straight, back to the drop out (b/c a straight bar is more stiff than a curved bar)....it's just one of those things that is obviously going to make the dawg more stiff...for more than twice the price! you have to ask yourself, is it really worth it to you....to me, no it's not....mine rides great, but maybe i'm used to the "flex" that might be there, but i dont notice it...i've said it before, and i'll say it again...if i could afford the kona when i was shopping, i'd have bought the kona....BUT, i couldn't, and the comp ds is a hell of a deal to pass up.....as soon as i have the money for a turner spot, you can bet i'll be buying one....untill then, i'll rock my moto with pride :)

All I have to say is the seat stays are weak and flex from right to left. I have checked several other bikes including a $1000 KHS and their seat stays and rockers do not have even close to the amount of flex mine does. Both Kona and KHS are made in the same factory as the Moto frames. KHS used the same exact frame on their 05-06 AM series of bikes and have since changed the rockers and rear triangle. I have read the reviews on that frame and people talked about the flex in the rear triangle too. I have no issues with my Moto hard tail.

and like i said in the last post, you get what you pay for. you're not going to get the kona frame for NEAR the price you will the moto frame, and that, my friend, is WHY people buy moto....obviously they didn't cut production costs by oversizing everything to make it stiff as hell....and ofcourse you dont have that problem with your moto hardtail, b/c a hardtail is a hardtail! my kona kula has a rear end that is very stiff laterally, same with the schwinn moab 3 frame i have, and my buddy's fantom comp....an aluminum hardtail, is an aluminum hardtail, is an aluminum hardtail....take an overpriced trek or an ellsworth aluminum hardtail, and put it against a moto hardtail, and make them the same geometry and they'll ride the same. but that cant be said for full suspension frames....it's just not the case....the cost to produce a full suspension frame is far greater than a hardtail frame....see with a HT you got one step in which the tubes are cut, then they get bent if need be, then machined, then put in the jig and welded....then you paint. with a full suspension the tubes are cut, bent, then machined, then welded, plus you have the rocker arms that are being made somewhere, then after the front and back half are welded, they go to two different painters b/c they're possibly different colors, like the fantom comps are, then it all comes back and gets put together...oh wait, i forgot those bearings had to be pressed in at some point.

building a full suspension bike takes more tools, more material and supplies, and more time....all of which equates to more cost to produce...which means the consumer has to pay more...and when you want to market a full suspension bike at hardtail prices, then SOMETHING has to "give" (pun intended). yes, you might have just been making an observation, but at some point it kinda came across to me that you were expecting your $350 frame to handle like a hardtail, or a high end full suspension (and yes, i consider kona high end) well that's not what you should expect.

nate.