I’m having a hard time figuring out my new rim/tire build. I really want to go with a UST setup, but I’m not finding much out there.

Rims:
I'm not interested in the Mavic 819's and the 823 are 580g without the eyelets....I'm looking for something wide, stiff and strong - around 500-600 grams all up.

Tires: (Colorado Conditions - loose/rocky)
Looking for something less than 1200g for the front. A true 2.5+ with excellent cornering traction and stiff sidewalls so I can run less than 20psi. I'd consider a smaller DH tire though I don't want a lot of rolling resistance on the front)

For the rear I'm looking for something less than 1000g and true 2.35 - I really like the Kenda Nev 2.3 for this but it isn't UST.

Well, I was going to suggest the Mavic SM819, but I see you are not interested. Not sure why not. The 819s are light and very strong. I've been using them for over a year for all-mountain riding and some FR--even done 8 foot drops to flat, and have had no problems with these rims. If you really don't want the 819, I suggest getting non-UST rims you like and converting with Stan's.

UST is proprietary to Mavic. If you don't like it you can use a stans kit, but you're better off with the Mavic. I don't see whats wrong with the 819s. Some nice Crossmax XLs would be a fine all mountain wheelset.

I'g go with the Crossmax's or if you really need a wide rim you can get the 823s. If you are busting 6' drops or higher, then you need 823s, if you don't then the 819s would be fine.

For tires you could get the new Maxxis highrollers but I wouldn't go nearly as high as 1200g for an all mountain rig. Specialized makes a 2.4" Enduro tubeless tire that should be up to snuff at a respecatble 900 something grams. Look at your options but you gotta be realistic about weight to strength trade offs. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Bontrager sells a UST inserts for most of their rims. Very much like DT who sells inserts for their 4.1d, 5.1d and 6.1d. Any rim will take a UST tire and you can use a 20in tube cut to fit or a Stan's rim strip to seal in the air. The Mavics are the only rims I can think of which have uninterrupted metal on the tire side, hence the nipple retainers, which add a substantial amount of weight. DT and Bontrager solutions are effectively the same as putting a rubber strip into your rim.

_MK

Thanks for the replies guys. The main problem with the 819's (for me) is the width. I want something that can handle a wide tire (2.5/2.6) and low tire pressure.

As an experiment I've been running a front DH wheel on my bike for a bit. It's a 2.6 Nokian Gazzalodi (1400g) Atom labs Aircorp rim (700 grams) and a DH tube. I think it's a wee bit too heavy overall (but completely doable), but I'm planning on having two front wheels so I'll have something lighter for those trails that don't need the big meat.

I’ve followed the whole stans thing since the beginning, but I really don’t know – so many conflicting opinions.

Maybe I’ll just go for the DT 5.1

Thanks for the replies guys. The main problem with the 819's (for me) is the width. I want something that can handle a wide tire (2.5/2.6) and low tire pressure.

As an experiment I've been running a front DH wheel on my bike for a bit. It's a 2.6 Nokian Gazzalodi (1400g) Atom labs Aircorp rim (700 grams) and a DH tube. I think it's a wee bit too heavy overall (but completely doable), but I'm planning on have two front wheels so I'll have something lighter for those trails that don't need the big meat.

I’ve followed the whole stans thing since the beginning, but I really don’t know – so many conflicting opinions.

Maybe I’ll just go for the DT 5.1

DT 5.1 is defiantelly a good choice. Also, with a rim strip and a UST tire, you most likely don't need any sealant in there to get air to seal in tight.

Why tubeless?

_MK

Why tubeless?

_MK

Every third or forth ride I get thorns or pinch flat. Although I find I can run higher pressures in the rear with the extra travel on the new ride.

Every third or forth ride I get thorns or pinch flat. Although I find I can run higher pressures in the rear with the extra travel on the new ride.

Bigger rims will definatelly help with pinch flats. Maxxis Welter Weight tube has yet to flat on me on a 28mm wide rim. Big tires like the Schwalbe Big Betty, with thick carcass will help even more. I'm running Fat Alberts and they're great. Thorns, well, only you can avoid those. Which trails do you get thorns on? I haven't had a thorn in my tires in a really long time.

Why am I defending tubes, you might ask? It is because I spent most of last season battling with tubless, first ghetto, standard rim/standard tire, then ust rim/standard tire, finanlly ust rim/ust tire and it all sucked. I had more flats running tubless than tubed. I ran Stan's in all three setups and that didn't help at all, not to mention the mess when I was forced to put in a tube trailside. But then, many people love their tubless, and you might be the lucky one it will work for.

Getting the 5.1d will definatelly keep your options open.

_MK

823's are one of the best rims out there, strong and light. You can build a set up pretty light and durable. I tried the tubeless thing and wasted money on tires and stans and eventually went back to regular tires. My vote: 823's, nevagals, std. tubes and liners.

I do run 2.5s on my 819s without any problems. They can handle a wide tire.

Bigger rims will definatelly help with pinch flats. Maxxis Welter Weight tube has yet to flat on me on a 28mm wide rim. Big tires like the Schwalbe Big Betty, with thick carcass will help even more. I'm running Fat Alberts and they're great. Thorns, well, only you can avoid those. Which trails do you get thorns on? I haven't had a thorn in my tires in a really long time.

Why am I defending tubes, you might ask? It is because I spent most of last season battling with tubless, first ghetto, standard rim/standard tire, then ust rim/standard tire, finanlly ust rim/ust tire and it all sucked. I had more flats running tubless than tubed. I ran Stan's in all three setups and that didn't help at all, not to mention the mess when I was forced to put in a tube trailside. But then, many people love their tubless, and you might be the lucky one it will work for.

Getting the 5.1d will definatelly keep your options open.

_MK

Wow, you really know how to sell someone on tubeless :D. I get a lot of thorns riding around my neighborhood and sometimes they don't penetrate till next time I'm on the trail, so I was thinking that a UST/UST tire with a bit of stans would be the way to go. I'm just so sick of pinch flats and thorns, but it sounds it's out of the frying pan and into the kettle scenario with tubeless. As you say, the 5.1's give me options, and those Big Betty’s do sound like a nice tire.

I do run 2.5s on my 819s without any problems. They can handle a wide tire.

I guess it's a personal preference thing, because a lot of people don't mind big tires on thin rims. I like a pretty square profile and since I'm light, I prefer to run low PSI, which leads to a vague feeling tire when pushing it into corners. But I certainly haven't tried every tire out there so maybe something would work, but since rims are expensive to replace (labor to build the wheel) I’m hesitant to run narrow rims now

823's are one of the best rims out there, strong and light. You can build a set up pretty light and durable. I tried the tubeless thing and wasted money on tires and stans and eventually went back to regular tires. My vote: 823's, nevagals, std. tubes and liners.

I'll take another look at them, but I though they were pretty heavy (670g or so with the eyelets) - aimed more at DH racing.

Check the new KORE UST wheels. Here are the All-Mtn versions:

http://www.kore-usa.com/products/durox_ust.html

Look in the products and they also have a lighter XC version and a heavier DH version. I think these weights are good though for a complete wheel/wheelset. I saw a price once and it was very reasonable, but I cannot remember what it was.

Schwalbe tires are very durable and well made, and the Big Bettys are no exception. The only reason for not running the Bettys is that they are made of a softer compound, which doesn't work for me as I see a lot of pavement for the moment.

I've found that Continental Gravity 2.3 tires are very good for softer dirt singletrack and DH on the front wheel, and Continental Slash 2.3 tires for the rear. However, the terrain here in Colorado is a lot more loose and dry than that found in Germany, so I might have to switch over to the Big Bettys or get some Continental Vertical 2.3s.

I've tried tubeless UST, Stans tubeless, and regular 'ol tubes.... and I feel your pain with the thorns around here..... :-<
But for now, I'll stick with the tubes, and just carry a lot of them with me.

1. With regard to flats: using a tubeless or non-tuebless converted to tubeless all with a good anti-flat material should yield very few flats. Since maiking this conversion in 18 months I had only one flat created by a size 10 nail. The Goo does need refreshment every 2-3 months though.
2. 819 may be indeed too naroow for 2.5 tires as the narrow base may vause the tires to roll in turns and feel unstable/drift. the 823 are great. A viable option is DT 6.1, lighter but non UST.
3. Look at the Bonty Big earls that at a terrain similar to So-Cal my crew and myself have excellnt expeerience with. Rolls well for a 2.5 tire, great front whell grip.
4. UST rim with UST tires is the best combo in term of stability and sturdiness, although heavy. I just opted for the 823 myself.

I’m having a hard time figuring out my new rim/tire build. I really want to go with a UST setup, but I’m not finding much out there.

Rims:
I'm not interested in the Mavic 819's and the 823 are 580g without the eyelets....I'm looking for something wide, stiff and strong - around 500-600 grams all up.

Tires: (Colorado Conditions - loose/rocky)
Looking for something less than 1200g for the front. A true 2.5+ with excellent cornering traction and stiff sidewalls so I can run less than 20psi. I'd consider a smaller DH tire though I don't want a lot of rolling resistance on the front)

For the rear I'm looking for something less than 1000g and true 2.35 - I really like the Kenda Nev 2.3 for this but it isn't UST.

For you, UST rims and UST tires are the best option since you are not too freaked about weight. Don't worry about messing with latex or slime. If you end up with a heavier UST tire which it sounds like you would be fine with, flats will be very unlikely.

Just carry a tube on long rides. I run the lightest UST tires available and in 2 1/2 years of riding, I've had one flat on the trail - from riding over a barbed wire fence.

Tube or Tubeless will forever be addressed in these forums I believe, as neither satisfies every scenario for every rider. And each has it's own drawbacks and positive points. In Northern California I've suffered 3 flats in one outting from the damn Goathead type thorns we get along the trailside. That's frustrating as hell! Now I'm going to be trying Tubeless with DT Swiss 5.1d rims sealed with their proprietary new sealant kit. Larry at Mountain High is adding Schwalbe Fat Albert UST tires on board at size 2.35. Hubs are Crhis King. These should arrive any day now and I will add more later. I hope they work well, but I fear that sooner or later I too will be cussing about the green goo thing along the trail myself. But then again... nothing is perfect and I'll have to decide later if it all is worth it for the majority of my riding. Same with all of you out there. The Tube or Tubless debate continues ad infinitum.

Tube or Tubeless will forever be addressed in these forums I believe, as neither satisfies every scenario for every rider. And each has it's own drawbacks and positive points. In Northern California I've suffered 3 flats in one outting from the damn Goathead type thorns we get along the trailside. That's frustrating as hell! Now I'm going to be trying Tubeless with DT Swiss 5.1d rims sealed with their proprietary new sealant kit. Larry at Mountain High is adding Schwalbe Fat Albert UST tires on board at size 2.35. Hubs are Crhis King. These should arrive any day now and I will add more later. I hope they work well, but I fear that sooner or later I too will be cussing about the green goo thing along the trail myself. But then again... nothing is perfect and I'll have to decide later if it all is worth it for the majority of my riding. Same with all of you out there. The Tube or Tubless debate continues ad infinitum.
True, but eventually it will iron itself out and one technology will prevail. Maybe something new but I doubt it will be tubes however.

Tubes are oldschool technology and it's only a matter of time before they're phased out. Tubeless is reliable as hell. I haven't had a flat in years, even after riding in severely thorny conditions or rocky terrain like Pisgah. I'll never go back. Eventually the technophobes will come around.

Tubes are oldschool technology and it's only a matter of time before they're phased out. Tubeless is reliable as hell. I haven't had a flat in years, even after riding in severely thorny conditions or rocky terrain like Pisgah. I'll never go back. Eventually the technophobes will come around.
Same experience here. Including riding trails in the Sonoran desert which is obviously loaded with cactus.

Same experience here. Including riding trails in the Sonoran desert which is obviously loaded with cactus.

same here, I ride in the Phoenix area. Hawes trail system if full of thorns. I can expect a flat with tubes every 3 or 5 rides but with mavic ust wheels and ust tires (with sealant) I have never flatted on the trail due to thorns, only a sidewall tear one time. I did flat on a DIY tubeless set up and when I went to put a tube in, what a freak'n mess that was with the sealant everywhere and the dirt and whatnot. Anyhow like I said, I haven't ever had to do this with all ust set up in over 3 years now.

I'm not saying ust is better than tubes, just better for me right now and for where I ride. 'Your mileage may vary.'

I just ordered the tubeless conversion rim strips for Maxxis. Curious to see how well they will work with the velocity rims, michelin ust tires I have.

Check the new KORE UST wheels. Here are the All-Mtn versions:

http://www.kore-usa.com/products/durox_ust.html

Look in the products and they also have a lighter XC version and a heavier DH version. I think these weights are good though for a complete wheel/wheelset. I saw a price once and it was very reasonable, but I cannot remember what it was.
It looks like that wheelset uses Mavic UST rims (the nipple cups). Hard to tell from the pic. Do not see a rim width mentioned either.
EDIT: Downloaded the catalog. They do use Mavic rims.

I just ordered the tubeless conversion rim strips for Maxxis. Curious to see how well they will work with the velocity rims, michelin ust tires I have.
Which model rim?

Shiggy, I have the Velocity VXC disc rims. They are quite narrow so I hope its not too difficult to mount the Michelin 2.0 UST tires. Guess if tubeless conversion doesn't work, I can put tubes in the tires. I bought this set to use as a second set of rims with knobby tires for wet/muddy conditions.

It looks like that wheelset uses Mavic UST rims (the nipple cups). Hard to tell from the pic. Do not see a rim width mentioned either.
EDIT: Downloaded the catalog. They do use Mavic rims.

I am not sure that they are Mavic rims. The catalog does say Mavic UST certified rims, but does this mean they are actually Mavic rims?

I think that Mavic UST certified means that Mavic has approved them and licensed the UST rights owned by Mavic. Maybe I am wrong, but It is hard to tell.

It would be nice if other companies got UST licensing rights from Mavic to produce rims which is what I thought these were.

Shiggy, I have the Velocity VXC disc rims. They are quite narrow so I hope its not too difficult to mount the Michelin 2.0 UST tires. Guess if tubeless conversion doesn't work, I can put tubes in the tires. I bought this set to use as a second set of rims with knobby tires for wet/muddy conditions.
I am afraid you will not be able to get the tires on with the Maxxis strips. The strips take up a lot of the room you need to be able to mount the tires. Works better with wider rims.

Just wanted to note that part of the reason the 823s weigh more is because they have two separate walls for the nipple inserts and the tire.This helps strength, as well as doing away with the need for rim strips.

Just wanted to note that part of the reason the 823s weigh more is because they have two separate walls for the nipple inserts and the tire.This helps strength, as well as doing away with the need for rim strips.
That has very little to do with the weight.

Nearly every higher end rim uses double wall construction. The inner wall of UST rims is not drilled to make them air tight. The outer wall may be slightly thicker for the nipple cup threads.
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