Hey all,

Does anyone know if you get a leaders jersey for the beginner category at the O-cups? i plan on seizing a couple of those this year.

btw- why on earth do you need to pay 140$ to get a license to race sport category?? The only reason i'm racing beginner is because i dont want to cough up 140$ for a license!

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Hey all,

Does anyone know if you get a leaders jersey for the beginner category at the O-cups? i plan on seizing a couple of those this year.

btw- why on earth do you need to pay 140$ to get a license to race sport category?? The only reason i'm racing beginner is because i dont want to cough up 140$ for a license!

Not true....


check my results from last year... best finish was 10th at kelso....

Hey all,

Does anyone know if you get a leaders jersey for the beginner category at the O-cups? i plan on seizing a couple of those this year.

btw- why on earth do you need to pay 140$ to get a license to race sport category?? The only reason i'm racing beginner is because i dont want to cough up 140$ for a license!

Leaders jersey? road or mtb? As far as I know theres no jersey awarded for being leader in MTB in Canada. At least I never noticed or cared. I was thinking of maybe doing an O-cup of 2 this year myself but I dont think they would let me race expert on a oneday. Non Ocups might. I think they do onedays for sport though but I like going around the course more times even though I'd prob get smoked big time in expert. Sport would seem to much like a sprint to me. ;)

No, you don't get a leader's jersey for beginner.

You might want to check out:

http://www.ontariocycling.org/web_doc/mem_forms/2004_Guide_for_Selecting_a_Race_Category.pdf

It's got some good information on Ontario cup categories.

You might want to read the following as well, although I'm guessing you already have a good idea about the details since you know what the fees are.

http://www.ontariocycling.org/web_doc/mem_forms/2004_Introduction_to_Citizen_Permits_1.pdf

You pretty much don't even get O-Cup points until you are in Expert, unless you are over 50 or under 15. You should probably call the OCA if you are unsure which division you are in. So if you want the leaders jersey, beginner is not the place to be.


Not true....


check my results from last year... best finish was 10th at kelso....

About sandbagging. You started by saying you were planning to seize a bunch of jerseys in beginner, and that the only reason you aren't in sport is because of the cost. I may be way off base, but that says to me that you think you have the skills and should be racing in sport. If staying at a lower catagory just to win stuff isn't sandbagging, then what is?

By the way, I don't think old results have any bearing on whether you are sandbagging or not. It is only an indication of how strong you were versus your competition that day. It's lousy justification for staying in a category below your ability. Not everybody has to or should win before they move up. I can see why you'd want to stay in Sport if your fitness isn't up to par for the Experts, but have some pity for the beginners. It really wrecks it for true beginners and hurts the sport when the beginner division fills up with a bunch of veterans and the real beginners get totally discouraged and turned off racing their first time out.

But hey, if you are greedy and don't care about the real beginners, then by all means go kick some newbie butt and win that prize. Don't be surprised if nobody congratulates you. About being too poor to race, that's too bad. Fees keep a lot of people from racing. You'd probably be better off saving the money from the entry fees or the Citizen's permit and putting it into your bike if you are that strapped for cash. I don't know how poor you really are, but if you can afford a Trek 8000, you can probably find a way to come up with the money needed for racing.

Sorry for being an ass, but you didn't give much to go on. All I've got to judge you on is the stuff you've written. I apologize if I'm totally wrong.

Hope it works out for you.

If theres one thing i dont do its sand bag. I got a minimum wage job and university fees to take care of. Some of us dont have the luxury to throw around 140$

The difference between sport and beginner is that sport does 2 laps. The difference in cost is not justified IMO.

Maybe I came across as being 'cocky' and a 'sandbagger'. But i was merely throwing words around.. not a big deal.

If I can't win in beginner, let alone finish consistently in the top ten then what makes you remotely think that I am a sandbagger?

I apologize for my words as that is not what i was getting at, I am by all means NOT a sandbagger. If I am going to be viewed as one, then I believe you're right. Its worth paying the extra and go sport class.

Once again, I am not a sandbagger and I will see you guys in a month racing sport class!
Sorry to all those that I may have 'disgusted'.

Good Choice,

You'll feel better about it in the long run. In my opinion it's better to come in last in sport than to win beginner. Racing is a luxury, be happy if you can afford it. Heck, just mountain biking is a luxury. I'm just happy I can afford to have a bike and have time to ride it occasionally.

There are more differences between beginner and sport other than the extra lap. If there wasn't, NORBA wouldn't boot people who constantly place up to the next level and it would be called sprint instead of beginner. Unless I'm mistaken, the difference in cost is mostly for the license, which you should be getting anyways if you plan to race regularly. Do they actually charge more to race in Sport than Beginner on a per race basis?

About the whole sandbagging issue? At the risk of sounding like an idiot, please read my last post. The part starting at the only reason you aren't in sport is because of the cost and ending at about staying at a lower category just to win stuff.

I'll quote it for you so you don't have to backtrack to that post:


About sandbagging. You started by saying you were planning to seize a bunch of jerseys in beginner, and that the only reason you aren't in sport is because of the cost. I may be way off base, but that says to me that you think you have the skills and should be racing in sport. If staying at a lower catagory just to win stuff isn't sandbagging, then what is?


Actually I think I do have the definition wrong. It should be staying at a lower category when you should be at a higher one. The winning stuff part is more of a greed thing, either for the prizes or for self-esteem. Nothing wrong with that on it's own, but couple it with the first part and people may not view you in the best light. If you know a better definition of sandbagging then please correct me.

In my opinion, how much money somebody has has no bearing on whether they are sandbagging or not. Also, somebody can still be a sandbagger if they don't win or place high. People who beat beat sandbaggers could #1 be in really good shape and not know how good they are #2 get really lucky, or #3 ALSO BE SANDBAGGING. #3 is a lame excuse at best. #2 there is no defense for. There is a difference between a first timer in great shape being too inexperienced(or stupid) to put themselves in a higher class and staying in a lower class when the racer knows (s)he should be in a higher class. At least the first timers can use the excuse that it's their first time.

As for 'cocky' and 'disgusted', hey your words not mine. Sorry to be a netiquette nazi, but generally you can use CAPS, bold, maybe even italics to make a point. Quotation marks are generally saved for actual quotes, it saves a lot of hassle down the line when people try to decipher who said what in earlier posts. Spelling and grammar errors are generally okay, although some people like to harp on spelling when they can't find anything else to complain about.

Let me preface the next part by saying that I don't think I've got the makeup to ever win an endurance race and I think I'm okay with that, so please believe that I'm not just a sore loser. I'm wouldn't say I'm 'disgusted' at all, maybe I feel a bit sorry or sad. I feel sorry for the people who otherwise would win but don't because of sandbaggers. To a lesser extent I feel sorry for sandbaggers themselves, because they really are robbing themselves as well as others. And mostly I feel sorry for the sport since it hurts the beginners most. I'll go into greater detail if anybody cares to hear me ramble some more.

Personally, I don't think you should give a damn what I think. From what I've seen, if somebody races beginner when they know they should be in sport, nobody cares unless they take placings that should really belong to somebody else. There's another thread somewhere around here about a guy who was creaming a beginner field and pulled out of the race right before the finish. Was he sandbagging? I don't know. Maybe he realised he was in the wrong class halfway through the race. Either way, a lot of people are happy and he still got to race.

If you are still worried about the cash situation and want to race beginner, then by all means go ahead. You could pull out before the finish line like that guy and have people applaude you, or you could grab whatever placing you can get and have people view you as a sandbagger. If you honestly don't think you'll be sandbagging if you stay in beginner, than stay in beginner. If you know you are in the right category and have a clear conscience, then screw what anybody else thinks. If you are having doubts, then you should probably move up. This should really be about you and not what other people think about you.

Either way,
Have fun racing!


If theres one thing i dont do its sand bag. I got a minimum wage job and university fees to take care of. Some of us dont have the luxury to throw around 140$

The difference between sport and beginner is that sport does 2 laps. The difference in cost is not justified IMO.

Maybe I came across as being 'cocky' and a 'sandbagger'. But i was merely throwing words around.. not a big deal.

If I can't win in beginner, let alone finish consistently in the top ten then what makes you remotely think that I am a sandbagger?

I apologize for my words as that is not what i was getting at, I am by all means NOT a sandbagger. If I am going to be viewed as one, then I believe you're right. Its worth paying the extra and go sport class.

Once again, I am not a sandbagger and I will see you guys in a month racing sport class!
Sorry to all those that I may have 'disgusted'.