I got to looking around at a lot of the "lighter" bikes listed on Dirt Boy's Light Bikes site and I think a lot of them are BS (as far as rideable bikes go). Maybe it's my attitude as to how the bikes should be listed on the site as I think the bikes should be listed with the parts you ride/race with on a routine or daily basis.

I notice a lot of bike are using the Conti Twister SS (and other 325+/- gram) tires to keep the weighs low and from experience I really doubt anyone is really riding, especially racing with these tires as their "regular" tires, these are definately special event tires. I would love to drop by some of these bike owners houses and make a suprise visit to see exactly how their bike is really set up! Suprise, Suprise I bet!

Or is it me and the only object of the site is to make a bike with light weight parts, take a picture and then put back on the parts I really use? H3LL, if that is the case, I can move a few parts around and easily have a large full suspension bike weighing in under 22 lbs. The bike would be a farse though...as though it would be a "ridable" bike it would not be one I would actually want to race on or do any "serious/routine" riding on.

I'm calling you out...how may people who have their bikes listed on Light-Bikes ride and race their bike exactly as listed! Post your message and the link to your bike.

KMan

This is my latest bike and it has been ridden and raced for the entire 2003 season (Expert) exactly as posted. (I actually have a few items that will make the bike a bit lighter and will be races this way for the 2004 season as well)
http://www.light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=64

I think its nice that they are as light as can be even if they are not like that all the time. I understand what you are saying though. It would be nice if they put up their actual daily ride specs but then they wouldnt be as cool even though they would still kick @$$.

My blue ride is 22lbs 2oz with 450gm Karma tires. JUST as I raced it. Of course I also raced it with some 345gm Klimax Lites when the bike was 21.7oz last Sept. Of course wadda I know, my bikes not on the site. Ha!

I'm with Kman, were we live and ride there is certainly no way that glorified road tires would cut it in a race. Does it ever rain were you ride? They they really work in mud?
While we are on the subject of the Light-Bike site, it amazes me that so many people have parts that are the lowest on average of the weights listed on WW. For example how many Conti SS tires weigh 440? Mine don't

I'm not saying I as well as everyone else don't switch tires and parts around to suite the need of that special day........switching to heavier mud tires when the trails get muddy,etc. Just how their bikes are built to ride on a regular and routine basis.

KMan

I also like the useage of claimed masses instead of actual masses, if I did that my bike would also 'weigh' less.

I am about to post my bike, with a few weights gathered from weightweenies for the parts I don't feel like taking apart i.e. frame, fork, disc brakes, etc. But I will, and always planned on posting the bike with a schwalbe racing ralph up front and a fast fred in the back, even though I 've not yet used this combo. But that is becuase I did use a jimmy front only with a fast fred in the rear for a while and I anticipated this setup to act similiarly, but with a bit less traction in the front and a lesser amount of rolling resistance. Just waiting on a FRM bb from dirtboy.

How many people actually ride those twister tires full-time. Now everyone who has a light bike or or is a weight wennie has to be a racer or race. But I do agree with you sometimes on part selection just to get the weight down.

I also think that many bikes being listed now are using claimed weights only and getting weights from the weight weenie site and not acutally weighing these parts.

I am thinking of something or some way to eliminate these bikes or have the owners change them. But again now where on the site do I say that you must use full time parts or race/part-time parts to keep that bike light.

My bike is just under 19lbs and this is what I ride! Sure I could get a lighter Seatpost, Wheels, and use a SID, but that is not what I would really use. Sure the bike would be near 18.5 lbs, but not something I would ride. Hell A lot of times I add 1 lb to the bike and use UST tires. Why, because that is what I ride.

I am going to look in to each bike a little more carefully when they are posted. If something seems fishy, I will stop it form being posted. Now how can I deny soemone if the use Twsiters full time? Sure if you only ride groomed hardpack...

Just a couple of parallel thoughts:

I have noticed that some other places like wrenchscience are posting weights of bikes by components, not an actual scale. I agree some people are weighing their bikes the same weight.

Perhaps light bikes should create a catagory of daily rider bikes showing what real bikes actually weight. I know in my case my Turner Burner size L weighs 28 pounds ready to roll with the tires I ride, disc brakes, water bottle cage etc. It could be trimmed down easily to 25 pounds, but I could never see it being a realistic ride with with the compenents needed to make it 20-21 pounds. Then of course the rider is 225 and need to be 200 pounds, so my view is a little skewed.

I have to agree with you, about the weights shown are bikes that are put in their lightest possible configurations. My Scalpel is one of the lighter FS bikes on light-bikes, but for purposes of weighing it, I have it with Schwalbe Fast Freds on it. I do use those tires sometimes, but it is either on the road or very dry non technical rides. The majority of the time, I run Kenda Karmas on my race wheels, which will add something to the order of 220 grams to the weight. There is nothing wrong with posting your bike in its lightest configuration.

Most of the time, my Scalpel has wheels consisting of Coda hubs, Mavic 223 rims, brass nipples and straight gauge spokes on it, along with OEM Continental Explorers tires that probably add 2 lbs to the bike. That is mainly because I subscribe to the "train heavy, race light" school of thought and also, I do not feel like tearing up my expensive stuff all of the time.

Aside from tires and wheels, though, everything else on my bike is run all of the time.

those are exactly my thoughts.however it is still nice to see real light bikes...

BUT that's why i suggested there should be a place for comments below each bike where you could fill in what tires you use regularly or whatever changes you do during the year.

I on my part have listed the bike exactly the way i ride it.well - the cassette is used only during summer but other than that everything has been on the bike the whole year.I even asked Dirt-Boy to change my tires to Nokians.somehow i found my bike specd with Twisters after he changed the look of the site last year.

I have Twisters in my garage but never ever will they go back on my bike.for me these are "poser" tires and compared to the Nokian are just ridiculous.however they are light and might suit some guys needs but for me they definitely don't work.same with wheels.I had a Tune "super" wheelset weighing 1330g but it had no ceramic coating.I actually never installed those wheels and finally sold them unused...so if i just specd Twisters and the wheelset my bike would maybe jump in the "lead" but that's not the point.at least not for me.

BUT i still plan on making it to the top...but i don't want to give up my principles of having a ridable bike with powerful brakes and good tires.

anyway - some comments below each bike on the light-bikes site would allow for different specs.

by the way - i never used any weights from weight-weenies.my parts weights are for real.

I have to agree with you, about the weights shown are bikes that are put in their lightest possible configurations. My Scalpel is one of the lighter FS bikes on light-bikes, but for purposes of weighing it, I have it with Schwalbe Fast Freds on it. I do use those tires sometimes, but it is either on the road or very dry non technical rides. The majority of the time, I run Kenda Karmas on my race wheels, which will add something to the order of 220 grams to the weight. There is nothing wrong with posting your bike in its lightest configuration.

Most of the time, my Scalpel has wheels consisting of Coda hubs, Mavic 223 rims, brass nipples and straight gauge spokes on it, along with OEM Continental Explorers tires that probably add 2 lbs to the bike. That is mainly because I subscribe to the "train heavy, race light" school of thought and also, I do not feel like tearing up my expensive stuff all of the time.

Aside from tires and wheels, though, everything else on my bike is run all of the time.

I've seen Fett at the races before, and yes he does use the Karmas...but I think he's right - it's all about tire selection..which changes weight. IF you weigh 110 lbs then you could probably run fast freds everywhere...but only then. I grabbed some FF's just because they were so damn cheap, and I wanted to satisfy my curiosity... but now that I have them I realize that I will probably never dare to race them!!! I hate a flat more than anything...ANYTHING!!!

I had to check my listing to see if I would be busted on anything, and caught three items, 2 of which increased the weight.

My inner ring is a generic titanium 22t ring, not Sugino. No change there, as I had listed the weight of the whole cransket as-built.

The AX-Lightness saddle is on my road bike; I am now using an SLR on the MTB, adding 42 grams. I also moved the Extralite "Clamp" from my MTB to the road bike, and am using Salsa's Flip Lock on the MTB (added 21 grams) because I like to adjust saddle height on the trail.

Otherwise, everything listed is my every day, every trail setup, including tires. That has me at 23.18 lbs for a large (20in) fully, and in the Gold group, not Platinum!

http://www.light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=74

My road bike is in the Platinum group "as is," and is the only one in there under 16 lbs anywhere near its 59cm frame size.

http://www.light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=155

I got to looking around at a lot of the "lighter" bikes listed on Dirt Boy's Light Bikes site and I think a lot of them are BS (as far as rideable bikes go). Maybe it's my attitude as to how the bikes should be listed on the site as I think the bikes should be listed with the parts you ride/race with on a routine or daily basis.

I notice a lot of bike are using the Conti Twister SS (and other 325+/- gram) tires to keep the weighs low and from experience I really doubt anyone is really riding, especially racing with these tires as their "regular" tires, these are definately special event tires. I would love to drop by some of these bike owners houses and make a suprise visit to see exactly how their bike is really set up! Suprise, Suprise I bet!

Or is it me and the only object of the site is to make a bike with light weight parts, take a picture and then put back on the parts I really use? H3LL, if that is the case, I can move a few parts around and easily have a large full suspension bike weighing in under 22 lbs. The bike would be a farse though...as though it would be a "ridable" bike it would not be one I would actually want to race on or do any "serious/routine" riding on.

I'm calling you out...how may people who have their bikes listed on Light-Bikes ride and race their bike exactly as listed! Post your message and the link to your bike.

KMan

This is my latest bike and it has been ridden and raced for the entire 2003 season (Expert) exactly as posted. (I actually have a few items that will make the bike a bit lighter and will be races this way for the 2004 season as well)
http://www.light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=64

in the summer if it gets hot or at least if the ground is hard then i do use my twisters with excellent results maybe its because i am 220 lbs which forces the tires to stick to the ground (perhaps this might be the only plus to being heavier!)
I really do feel that every person placing their bike in light bikes should weigh their completed bike on digi scales as before i weighed my completed bike i added up the sum of all the parts and was about 3/4 of a lb lighter than the completed bike!

I'm obviously a target of this rant :D

All weights have been verified on a digital scale and I have photos to back them all up.

When I was riding I changed the tires only, to Nokians.

All parts are now for sale :(

have you administer any kind of rules.
This was just an observation I made when looking thru the gallery. With the possibility of a new bike on my horizions I was curious as to what my weight might be and was looking at similiar builds. That is when I realized that a lot of "similiar" bikes were really BS builds and built pretty much for "Show and Tell".
Not that there is anything wrong with that!

KMan

Just messing with you.
I just need to post something to give this new board a little life :)

Now I'm off to buy some Twister Supersonics :)

KMan

I do like the idea to have a blank "notes" section for each build where the owner can advise if the weights are actual weights or copied weights. Any parts changes, etc.

KMan

Kman,

Please feel free always to comment on the site. That goes for anyone.

Just messing with you.
I just need to post something to give this new board a little life :)

Now I'm off to buy some Twister Supersonics :)

KMan

I am sure that I am not alone.

I ride it as listed--really!
I happen to live in a very dry, hard-packed area of the world, and those 345-gram Kendas actually work surprisingly well!

You guys are getting a little too picky.... for 2 reasons..


1. No skin off my nose if Joe Blow lists his bike with lighter tires (last time a checked DB is not giving out prize money for the lightest bike).

2. Maybe your riding style, conditions and weight make light tires more relevant in certain areas. (a 150lbs rider on dry flat hard pack can use lighter tire and tubes vs a 220 Clyde in a rocky mountainous area).


See for me guys like Kman, Trevor! and DB built my kind of bike (I call them "stealth light". They look like normal bikes till you pick them up) where as guys like David G and Nino have built "exotic" light bikes. They push the envelop with lightness. But for them it obviously works. I like seeing their builds as you can always learn from them!!

BTW my bike was ridden with the tires posted in the picture.

Jag

I have two setups. One for the winter and one for the dry racing season. The difference is about 1.5kg. And yes, it's hard to make any rules on this subject, when you are using 4 different sets of tires for the different weather conditions. It's not a contest.

always be real and rideable. I think that the point is to be open and honest about which weights are confirmed and which have been obtained from other sources such as weight weenies or claimed weight. I do think that the total weight of the bike should be a confirmed weight, especially if any component weights are claimed and not confirmed. Adding the total of claimed weights is simply not accurate. You can't expect someone to pull out a headset or bottom bracket just to confirm the exact weight, especially if there is a listing for that component on Weight Weenies. But be open about the fact that it is a claimed weight, and say so on your listing, and strive to get the weight confirmed as soon as it is reasonable to do so. This is where a longer narrative would help. I weighed my bike on 3 different scales to confirm the total weight before posting it, so I know it is an accurate weight, and anyone is welcome to drop by my house at any time for a "weighing party".

Good point my fellow Epic owner - but I can tell you that my bike is in the basement with every single piece removed from the frame so I can at least satisfy my curiosity as to what a medium epic frame REALLY weighs, and all the other parts also. It needed a breakdown and cleaning anyway. But seriously - I have a myweigh 6000 that will weigh a frame and I am going to post photos and put to rest the mystery surrounding the frame weight - have you looked at weight weenies? - they have same size frames as much as 200 grams different from eachother?? The weights are all over the board. I think if you way EVERY piece on a quality digital scale then your total weight should be DAMN close to accurate less some grease or lube../ always be real and rideable. I think that the point is to be open and honest about which weights are confirmed and which have been obtained from other sources such as weight weenies or claimed weight. I do think that the total weight of the bike should be a confirmed weight, especially if any component weights are claimed and not confirmed. Adding the total of claimed weights is simply not accurate. You can't expect someone to pull out a headset or bottom bracket just to confirm the exact weight, especially if there is a listing for that component on Weight Weenies. But be open about the fact that it is a claimed weight, and say so on your listing, and strive to get the weight confirmed as soon as it is reasonable to do so. This is where a longer narrative would help. I weighed my bike on 3 different scales to confirm the total weight before posting it, so I know it is an accurate weight, and anyone is welcome to drop by my house at any time for a "weighing party".

I got to looking around at a lot of the "lighter" bikes listed on Dirt Boy's Light Bikes site and I think a lot of them are BS (as far as rideable bikes go). Maybe it's my attitude as to how the bikes should be listed on the site as I think the bikes should be listed with the parts you ride/race with on a routine or daily basis.
KMan Message Snipped
]


With Tuners it's the wattage in the stereo, the HP under the hood, for us... the final weight. All are pretty easy to verify. Put the car on the dyno, put the bike on the scale. :)

If the bike gets miles with that configuration, it should be legal. The rider will be the one paying any penalty for riding 'stupid' light parts on their local trails. I freely realize that I DON'T have the lightest parts on my bikes, but my riding style, riding weight, and small wallet don't let me use the really light stuff. I don't doubt that there are people who CAN ride the freakish light bikes, but I don't know how 'light' they ride their bikes, what trails they ride, and how much they weigh.

DB - would it be possible to put next to the input weight box a verified 'check' box. It would make it easy at a glance to see what were verified weights and what were not. With the update feature you now have it could make it easy for the individuals to keep this current too.

JmZ

asterisks next to mine and noted it in the narrative box. But a checkbox would be nice if it could be added without too many headaches. And I agree, the total weight of the ride is the most important weight. The Twisters are a legitimate MTB tire. People praised them on this forum not too long ago for their light weight and low rolling resistance. Maybe these people do use them everyday. I don't use them, but if someone else does, thats up to them. I use the Maxxis Minotaurs which are light (mine are both under 380 g's), affordable (my LBS has them for $19), grip like crazy, roll relatively fast, and work very well with tubeless. I've yet to flat one. Until something better comes along for me, they are staying on my bike and I ride them everyday. Oh, and they wear well to. I've got a few hundred miles on the front tire (mixed terrain) and Its hardly showing any signs of wear. I'm gonna pick up a couple more of them Thursday.

Kman,

Please feel free always to comment on the site. That goes for anyone.
Don't change a single thing!

It's one of the funniest bike sites on the 'net.

Always good for some chuckles.

Don't change a single thing!

It's one of the funniest bike sites on the 'net.

Always good for some chuckles.

Precisely what's funny on it? I haven't really taken a look around as of late on light-bikes, but must have some new and cool added features to result in ending up having "some chuckles".


Better go check it out for my daily dose of chuckles 'n all.

Trevor!

Precisely what's funny on it?
The pictures.

The exhaustive lists of bike parts.

The weights.

The whole "bikes as jewelry" aspect with people focusing on their bikes as trinkets rather than riding.

Hysterical stuff, as always.

We mock what we do not understand

We mock what we do not understand
LOL.

I understand perfectly.

It's just very funny.

...with the fact that the point is to be honest with the parts weights. Before I got my scale, all the weights were taken on weightweenies.com or from other postings on LB.com. But when I stripped down my bike to pieces and all weighed them, it was actually 0,7lbs heavier even though I tried to add grams to the estimated weights of parts to make sure it was closer to truth, because we all know that Selle Italia put 135g on the SLR, but it's rarely this (mine is 143g).

And also my bike is always listed as I ride it, updated whenever I change a part. I could buy light semi-slicks, take a pic of my bike and post it with these tires on, but it wouldn't be the way I ride it, so personnally I would prefer to see the bikes listed with its daily setup. :)

that's a good idea:
lets make verified weights distinguish from the weights copied from weight-weenies.that way you can clearly see which parts were actually weighed.make them different in colour or have them with some background colour.

we really can't expect that everybody takes his bike apart.so it really is allowed to have BBs or headsets etc. listed with weights copied from another source.BUT we could see that part X or Y was not weighed individually.

still - an added section for comments below each bike would add some valuable info.

<center><img src="http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/Picture001(31).jpg"></center>

This beauty above is my beater bike and if you can see (sorry about img quality), its decked out with Twister SS front and rear. This brings it down to 11.6 kg so I'm off to have it listed on light-bikes hardtails.

Anyway I ride and race these tires regularly and think they are great so I don't find alarm bells ringing when I see them on light-bikes bikes. I am building a light bike myself and though I have a pair of Nokian tires to evaluate on my beater bike, it too will most likely have Twister SS tires in the end, and yes, I will race that one too.

My point is what you consider 'rideable' is not the same for everyone. I believe bikes there already are listed how they are ridden/raced. After all why do you build a bike, to ride it or have it on light-bikes? There's no prizes for having a bike platinum or whatever so what would be the point? I certainly wouldn't think it worth my time changing my tires/parts simply to take a picture for light-bikes. I am building a sub 18 pound hardtail so I can go very fast, not to impress people here. If what you are saying is indeed going on, it is truly sad, but either way I won't lose any sleep over it.

:mad:
I had the comment section expanded last month. You can now add a whole story about your bike.
Just edit you bike, and at the bottom of the specs use the comment section. :D

Is that DB doesn't have a team that goes out and verifies weight on these bike people! So even if you do put a little ** next to your weight it doesn't mean CRAP in cyber space - you could very well be lying. Just like "claimed weights" are crap most of the time also...theres is simply no way to "prove" the weight of the bike - now people who do a lot of research such as ourselves can look at a spec. sheet, and say ... hmmmm looks doable - may be off there a little - may be off here a little . etc... I guess it could be mandatory to take a picture of your bike on a scale - but even a cheat of a person could probably mess with the scale or something, and make the bike seem lighter than it is....I feel that most people who are posted on light bikes are indeed racers, and are doing this as a service to people who are looking for ideas on building race bikes etc.... it's a very informative site in my opinion, and one I cherish! :-) But hey - I like bikes man. People who make fun of it are probably not racers, or don't take their racing seriously at least because I cannot for the life of me understand why you wouldn't want the lightest bike that's reasonable for racing! Roadies especially! Why would you want to torture yourself even more with weight - racing is tough enough.

You caught me, I new if I didn't list my bottle cage and computer someone would catch on, thanks for making me look at my bike, the specs were all jacked up.
I race last year and this winter with the parts and tires listed, I'm even going to race the 24 hour race in Tucson with this setup, granted my bike isn't one of the bikes you're calling out since it weighs over 24lbs it should be listed accurately just the same.
http://www.light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=34

Boj, How's that home made bike stand of yours work?

Is that DB doesn't have a team that goes out and verifies weight on these bike people! So even if you do put a little ** next to your weight it doesn't mean CRAP in cyber space - you could very well be lying. Just like "claimed weights" are crap most of the time also...theres is simply no way to "prove" the weight of the bike - now people who do a lot of research such as ourselves can look at a spec. sheet, and say ... hmmmm looks doable - may be off there a little - may be off here a little . etc... I guess it could be mandatory to take a picture of your bike on a scale - but even a cheat of a person could probably mess with the scale or something, and make the bike seem lighter than it is....I feel that most people who are posted on light bikes are indeed racers, and are doing this as a service to people who are looking for ideas on building race bikes etc.... it's a very informative site in my opinion, and one I cherish! :-) But hey - I like bikes man. People who make fun of it are probably not racers, or don't take their racing seriously at least because I cannot for the life of me understand why you wouldn't want the lightest bike that's reasonable for racing! Roadies especially! Why would you want to torture yourself even more with weight - racing is tough enough.


We pretty much have to go by the honor system. There is no practical way to verify the weights, except that knowledgable people would spot it if a weight was obviously way off. I don't think its that big of a deal. Its like the first guy to climb the Matterhorn. How do we know that Whymper made it to the top? There are no pictures of him on the top. We have to take his word for it and at some point trust that he is being honest. I just don't think we need too get carried away with concerns over lying, theres no way it could be proved anyway. I agree with you that many on the site do race their bikes, and all at least ride them quite a bit, most likely with very little change from how they are posted. I don't change my listing every time I change a brake cable. It would be too difficult to remove all my cables and weigh them just to change one cable. It would take all the fun out of biking. :cool:

Here is my pic from my August 12 hour race. Yes I used the supersonics all 11 of the 12 hours. Just to prove it here is a pic of the tires and me riding the bike. So some of you may think we dont use the stuff we list but some of us do!

I love the SS tires. Sure they may not be the most durable things but I weight 158 lbs and I have yet to have an issue. I read somewhere that someone was complaining about traction on these. I am confused on how. I normally used Rockster Pros but found these tires so so much better in terms of traction.

Racing Pictures (http://www.funpromotions.com/racing_photos.htm)

Everything on my bike is what I ride with. The only exception is in the beginning of the season I put on my IRC tires for full traction until I get back in the feel for things.

FYI - These tires were raced on a course at a ski hill so the comment about bad for downhills..

I used the Rocksters for the first hour of the race however swapped because I needed more braking and off camber traction.

My point is this. Everyone has there preference and there own riding style. Ones piece of junk is another persons gold.

Boj, How's that home made bike stand of yours work?

Here it is....

<center><img src="http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/Picture003(35).jpg"></center>

<center><img src="http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/Picture004(25).jpg"></center>

Hope its self explanatory now. The little male part at the top stops it tipping over, but you have to make sure you make it as wide as the 'hole' on the bike will allow.

That's very clever. I don't know how I could make something like that work on either of my FS bikes though...

Thanks! I'll have to give it some thought and see what I can come up with.

That's very clever. I don't know how I could make something like that work on either of my FS bikes though...

Thanks! I'll have to give it some thought and see what I can come up with.

What you can try for a FS is to have a stand where a bike goes in sideways and rests on a swingarm if possible. If that don't work, just the old school stand where back (or front) wheel are held on both sides will work on any bike and is really simple. Its the kind of design that those bike stands in public places use.

Good luck

I run into guys every day who "think" their bike weighs x
it's almost always heavier on my digital scale
the only way to way a bike is to weigh the complete bike, ready to ride

I know for certain that I can't ride a 22lb fs where I ride
it won't be stiff enough, hold up or have tires that have traction to actually ride..

most fs bikes are about 26lbs, real weight
a light one is 24 or so with no stupid parts
my bike fluctuates by a pound dependant upon tires...

I ride faster in some places with the heavier tires because they hook up and I have confidence to push the bike hard.

I ride faster in other places with the lighter tires because the conditions don't require the extra traction and the extra weight and increased rolling resistance would slow me down.

point is: spec intelligently with rider weight and conditions in mind.
A 200lb rider pretty much has to ride a heavier bike than a 130lb rider.
I _won't_ put a SID on a 200lb rider in rocky conditions, he WILL be faster riding a Fox because it's stiffer and holds a line better and he can just hammer down.

I like a light bike as much as anyone, but stiffness and durability are more important for 90% of the riders out there.

a buddy of mine, fast guy, tied for first in the TX sport series, races expert...
had a really light Turner Stinger, SID world cup carbon, V brakes, ti bolts, etc..
he rode the crap out of that bike for about 4 years. (he's about 145)
it got hit by a truck, we built him up a hh100x, Fox100mm fork, disc brakes, etc..
a heavier bike. I rode with him last week, he says it does everything better, including climbing.. reason? because it's a stiffer frame, stomp on the pedals and the power goes to drive the rear wheel. stiffer fork goes where he points it, he's fighting the bike less and can just keep the power down.

Charles
hammerhead

I run into guys every day who "think" their bike weighs x
it's almost always heavier on my digital scale
the only way to way a bike is to weigh the complete bike, ready to ride

I know for certain that I can't ride a 22lb fs where I ride
it won't be stiff enough, hold up or have tires that have traction to actually ride..

most fs bikes are about 26lbs, real weight
a light one is 24 or so with no stupid parts
my bike fluctuates by a pound dependant upon tires...

I ride faster in some places with the heavier tires because they hook up and I have confidence to push the bike hard.

I ride faster in other places with the lighter tires because the conditions don't require the extra traction and the extra weight and increased rolling resistance would slow me down.

point is: spec intelligently with rider weight and conditions in mind.
A 200lb rider pretty much has to ride a heavier bike than a 130lb rider.
I _won't_ put a SID on a 200lb rider in rocky conditions, he WILL be faster riding a Fox because it's stiffer and holds a line better and he can just hammer down.

I like a light bike as much as anyone, but stiffness and durability are more important for 90% of the riders out there.

a buddy of mine, fast guy, tied for first in the TX sport series, races expert...
had a really light Turner Stinger, SID world cup carbon, V brakes, ti bolts, etc..
he rode the crap out of that bike for about 4 years. (he's about 145)
it got hit by a truck, we built him up a hh100x, Fox100mm fork, disc brakes, etc..
a heavier bike. I rode with him last week, he says it does everything better, including climbing.. reason? because it's a stiffer frame, stomp on the pedals and the power goes to drive the rear wheel. stiffer fork goes where he points it, he's fighting the bike less and can just keep the power down.

Charles
hammerhead

Dude - I would just about agree with everything you said! (even though I feel a light FS bike is more around 22-23 - ridable, and resilient) I happen to have a "heavy FS frame" - and I've ridden a lot of lighter FS frames - and that's one thing I notice about the Epic is that it is STIFF....this is very important, and I don't think a lot of people realize the energy lost over the course of a race on a flemsy FS frame....I Only weight 150lbs - and as much as I'm tinkering with grabbing a Scott FS bike - something about a 4 1/2 to 5lb FS bike worries me a little....but yea a 150lb man can definitely get away with a lot more than a clydesdale - or even a 180lber....but maybe that's where the true secret lie...is building a bike that fits YOU the rider..and having it ready for every race situation.

I run into guys every day who "think" their bike weighs x
it's almost always heavier on my digital scale
the only way to way a bike is to weigh the complete bike, ready to ride

I know for certain that I can't ride a 22lb fs where I ride
it won't be stiff enough, hold up or have tires that have traction to actually ride..

most fs bikes are about 26lbs, real weight
a light one is 24 or so with no stupid parts
my bike fluctuates by a pound dependant upon tires...



Ditto. I routinely find guys who thought their bikes weighed 22 pounds actually heavier by 2 pounds or more. Unless someone posts a picture of the bike on the scale and not one of these bogus lists of parts at the make believe weights ascribed to each part, I pretty much discount many of the bike weights listed as wishful thinking (at best).

Heck, I am in WW-recovery anyway riding a bone-stock 2004 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Pro. Oh course my road bike is another story. . . .

I kinda feel the same way, Heavy is sometimes better! I weight about 185/190lbs, no I could ride around on a sub 8000g hardtail and it would just feel like trash. The heavier stuff is just plain and simple a better solution for me.

My bike I am working on at the moment, I have got that down to 9.75kg's (paper weights), now that aint all that light, all the parts to me are/seem well ridable, But I have saved room for the "creature comforts", the frame is steel, the bit's are Easton...You get the idea. Now I could drop a SID on the front, and loose 350g, but what would be the point, I'd brake them in a week :p

Sorry I dont rreally have a point, just a rant I guess :p .... And Just for the record, the Frame is a Cove Handjob :D

This thread is fun. It's answering a lot of weight-weenie questions that I have. I was wondering if a majority of weight-weenies actually race.... or just lighten up their bikes as a sub-hobby to riding (not that there's anything wrong with that....of course there's not). I recently got a great deal on a new Specialized Rockhopper FSR Comp. It's nothing special, but I wanted to get into full suspension at a reasonable price.

Herein lies my problem: I find myself wandering onto websites like this and envying, wanting, covetting....(you get the point). Each component that I look to upgrade costs more than the next and it makes me wonder how you guys afford these awesome bikes.
Sponsors? No other hobbies? Rich? Second job? Single? (probably single)....

endolookout:
doing the continual "upgrade" usually costs more than if you would have bought a full custom bike up front. Of course, there's the large initial investment, but then you are pretty much done...

Yeah, I realize that. I'm a pretty casual recreational rider that likes to tweek a little. I have no plans of turning this bike into a lightweight. It's just fun to window-shop. ;)

Also ask the majority of the people here "how long it took them to build their bike to it's current specs"?
My current bike is the process of building over several years. Started out with a "regular" bike, added a few things here and there, sell some stuff, buy some more, etc. I am guess most people here at least change a few parts every single year.

KMan

I hope you guys don't think I'm making fun of you. I would love to soup up my bike, but my paycheck is direct deposit and my wife thinks I'm an idiot for wanting new handlebars that cost $100+. She doesn't understand how much of a better rider I'll be if I could just trim a few ozs. off of my bike. (sorry if I sound like a cry-baby, but I'll bet I'm not alone)

I do hope to lighten the tires/tubes, seatpost, handlebars/stem in the near future. Already got a nice 200 gm san marco saddle from ebay (down from stock 375gm Specialized) After that I'll have to wait for heavy parts to break before I upgrade.

Patience and vigilance pay off. Saving weight doesn't have to cost you your life's savings (or your marital harmony). When my wife gripes about the money I spend on bike parts, I remind her how lucky we both are that my hobby is bicycles, not cars. It's all relative. Keep it in perspective.

I hope you guys don't think I'm making fun of you. I would love to soup up my bike, but my paycheck is direct deposit and my wife thinks I'm an idiot for wanting new handlebars that cost $100+. She doesn't understand how much of a better rider I'll be if I could just trim a few ozs. off of my bike. (sorry if I sound like a cry-baby, but I'll bet I'm not alone)

I do hope to lighten the tires/tubes, seatpost, handlebars/stem in the near future. Already got a nice 200 gm san marco saddle from ebay (down from stock 375gm Specialized) After that I'll have to wait for heavy parts to break before I upgrade.

My wife is a stay home mom, and she knows I make the money (although I know she works harder than I do), but she cannot fathom the cost of a set of Eggbeater Triple Ti's. She knows I make the money, but I know not to push it or I'll hear about it. I teach EMT and CPR on the side for bike money. You gotta find creative ways to create a bike fund. The other option is to be happy with the bike you have, which is probably the better option.

My latest scheme has been to go up in the attic and liquidate old hobbies on ebay. A couple of old guitar amps actually bought the bike. My hockey skates turned into a pair of (contoversial) Schwalbe RR's and new handlebars. My wife better watch out or I'll sell her blender and microwave.

My latest scheme has been to go up in the attic and liquidate old hobbies on ebay. A couple of old guitar amps actually bought the bike. My hockey skates turned into a pair of (contoversial) Schwalbe RR's and new handlebars. My wife better watch out or I'll sell her blender and microwave.

keep the blender, it works great for mixing tubeless latex soultion :D

My latest scheme has been to go up in the attic and liquidate old hobbies on ebay. A couple of old guitar amps actually bought the bike. My hockey skates turned into a pair of (contoversial) Schwalbe RR's and new handlebars. My wife better watch out or I'll sell her blender and microwave.


Thats been my strategy for renovations on my mt bike.
I am consolidating down to two hobbies.

Bikes and kiteboarding.

Anyone wanna buy some high end bass gear? or a ducati?

Actually I'm looking for a nice bass for my wife... haha

Really. My bike weighs exactly what it says on light-bikes, but it's not that light compared to most of them.

http://www.light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=291

(Grendel is my cat)

I know I could shave another pound off if I went with some different components but the pedals are a deal breaker, I can't stand any other kind. I hate riding without bar ends. Etc etc. It's light enough for me, weighing in at 225 lbs. I built the bike from the ground up and weighed everything as it went together. Of course, being this heavy one could say that having a light bike is superfluous, losing weight off me would be better. And it is, I've lost 50 lbs this year so far, and it makes an incredible difference. I just figured being a big guy I need every advantage I could get!

I did a 6 hour race 2 weeks ago and I trashed my right shifter on that bike after my second lap and grabbed my backup bike which is a good 2 lbs heavier, if not more. And I immediately could tell. Rotational weight is everything. Holy crap. I was starting to think weight didn't matter, but it does. I was measurably slower on my backup bike. (Also an epic). I think I am going to go with kenda karmas for the next race season. I'd go with even smoother tires but the grip of the explorers is incredible and I'd have a hard time giving that up. I hear the karmas are comparable.

As for getting permission from the wife - she races too, and she objects to buying ultralight stuff for the sake of buying ultralight stuff... or rather did until I put a set of ultralight wheels on her bike. Now she understands.

am I the only one that also finds it annoying when someone has an XS bike frame and an XS cut steerer tube fork and then they get to lead?

I guess I wanted the lightest single speed. It would have been easy, but expensive. But, some dude on the website has what I feel a very generous weighing system for his.

But, whatever, I also think there is a time when it gets to be too light...

So, I am at like 14 pounds, with slicks and it's cool.

I'm with Kman, were we live and ride there is certainly no way that glorified road tires would cut it in a race. Does it ever rain were you ride? They they really work in mud?
While we are on the subject of the Light-Bike site, it amazes me that so many people have parts that are the lowest on average of the weights listed on WW. For example how many Conti SS tires weigh 440? Mine don't
That's why they call it a "desert." I live and ride in Northern Nevada, and it's bone-dry here. And my Kenda Klimax Lites (345g) work just fine. Sure, they're skinny, and get a bit squirrely in sand (not too much of that here, either--contrary to the common image of a desert), but, DANG, do they accelerate fast!

I doesn't rain here either. When it does, the ground is bone dry again in about 1hr (SoCal high desert). I still can't get away wiht light tires because I have nothing but jagged rocks in my trails, and I do have sand too. :( You tires would take a full pound + off of my bike, if I could use them.

14lbs is cool, but will it be as blingy as nikh's was? That was one hot bike. With that much money going into it I probably would have just got a frame with horizontal drops. A tensioner is just kind of ugly. When do we see some pics of this bike of yours? And I need a set of those levers when you get the chance.

14lbs is cool, but will it be as blingy as nikh's was? That was one hot bike. With that much money going into it I probably would have just got a frame with horizontal drops. A tensioner is just kind of ugly. When do we see some pics of this bike of yours? And I need a set of those levers when you get the chance.

Ah the levers...

Will it be as blingy? No. I do, however, have a bike that will easily out bling Nikhs.

My bike in total will cost less than Nikhs frame.

We will see.

Shoot me an email about said levers

Ah the levers...

Will it be as blingy? No. I do, however, have a bike that will easily out bling Nikhs.

My bike in total will cost less than Nikhs frame.

We will see.

Shoot me an email about said levers
REALLY SORRY TO BE HIJACKING THIS DEAD THREAD LIKE THIS

Um, sorry but I lost your email. I sent a PM, but got no reply. If you could email me at theredmantra @netscape.net that would be great. Now why would you go and block the email in your profile? :confused:

i put mine on there over the weekend, still waiting for the picture to clear. as it is on the site it comes in at 24.22 pounds. come to think of it there could be heavier fs bikes but as far as hardtails go i think i got the heaviest. my goal is to get it as close to 24 even as possible and i'm really picky about how i'm gonna do it. realisticly i'd kill the 16.16 pound merlin, i give that thing 5 minutes, not to mention how many things some people leave out on the weights, i know i did. who wants to take all that nokon off just to weigh it? honestly. 24 is the lightest bike i will proably ever own.

Thats been my strategy for renovations on my mt bike.
I am consolidating down to two hobbies.

Bikes and kiteboarding.

Anyone wanna buy some high end bass gear? or a ducati?

It always sucks when you have to give up something to work on something else... I seem to do it all to often although the bike is about all I do now that and endurance racing :p

Just curious what Bass stuff you got, I am after a new amp & some pedals... Maybe even an acoustic bass. Also what Ducati you got, I'm after one of them too :p

Email me :)


Also My bike is finally up, although it waiting on the picture clearance- and by no means finished yet. :)

it's a pure hobby on the mechanical side, theraphy and endurance. I played other sport competitively and realised that cycling does a good job in increasing endurance and healing injuries by strengthening muscles. I rode for fun and even greater fun if I can build lite bikes on a budget, comprising parts from e-bay and classified Hence, I rode my bike as listed, no changes.

Will it be as blingy? No. I do, however, have a bike that will easily out bling Nikhs.

Will it out bling my new ride ;) :D (Yes I changed my name, way back!)

It always sucks when you have to give up something to work on something else... I seem to do it all to often although the bike is about all I do now that and endurance racing :p

Just curious what Bass stuff you got, I am after a new amp & some pedals... Maybe even an acoustic bass. Also what Ducati you got, I'm after one of them too :p

Email me :)


Also My bike is finally up, although it waiting on the picture clearance- and by no means finished yet. :)

Sent you a pm...