Did they have any of the Turner 4X frames there on display, or as demo bikes?

buenas noches. stay as cool as you can. thanks again....

Turner Flux (TNT)- Fox RLT 100/RP3 (4x4"). Fox RLT not a very compliant fork. We got at most 3 of the 4 inches. The Fox may be a bit short for trail use. The front end rode a bit low and the steering was quick, but precise. It railed like all Turners, but some turning ability was sacrificed by the incompliant front and a Maxxis tire which did not hook up that well. The front skated on me a few times. Braking performance was hard to evaluate due to the pea gravel the trails were largely covered with making traction a bit sketchy anyway. The RP3 was also set up firmer than what was optimal for me since I was the lightest rider in the group (CrashTheDOG, Ventanarama, El Beastro, myself, and later Bob the Wheelbuilder joined us). I typically try to evaluate all bikes with a minimum of help from platform shocks so I get a feeling for what the linkage design brings to the pedal stability. With the RP3 set in the minus mode, the bike still pedaled very well, but the rear was a bit less plush than it could have been due to the high main spring pressure, I think. Overall solid. I was not blown away by any of the XC bike we rode (Flux, Giant Trance, Mav ML 7.3).

http://img364.echo.cx/img364/2986/fluxside0aa.jpg

http://img364.echo.cx/img364/8954/fluxdrop1gm.jpg

Turner 6-Pack (TNT)- Fox 36 Van/Fox DHX Coil (6x6"). The Fox 36 Van is a brilliant fork and compliments the Pack perfectly. The height compromises climbing a bit and some ability to moderate height would be nice, but overall performance was excellent and worked in concert with the DHX Coil. This was my first time on the 36 Van, but due to our bike switching I did not spend much time on the 6-Pack, and while on it I was mainly concentrating on the Van. My thoughts on the 6-Pack are well known, and today did not change my impression, TNT or not. A very solid, good pedaling, overall great performing heavy-duty trailbike.

http://img398.echo.cx/img398/4505/packdrop5nf.jpg

http://img398.echo.cx/img398/8440/packside8cd.jpg

http://img398.echo.cx/img398/8159/elbeastpack7io.jpg

Turner 5-Spot (TNT)- Fox Float 130X/Fox DHX Air (5x5"). I hardly rode this model. It was very light though. Impressively lighter than my 5-Spot as built. I may try to get more time on one tomorrow.

http://img398.echo.cx/img398/2915/larryspot8li.jpg

http://img398.echo.cx/img398/1663/spotside7vs.jpg

Turner Highline (TNT)- Fox 40RC/Fox DHX Air (8x8"). The frame execution is very impressive. It is burly and to-the-point, and in the raw finish almost industrial looking. Each and every pivot gets a zerk. The main pivot has a zerk in a cool, side-port spot. I got to pedal this one all the way up to the pass at the Caldera Loop, including climbing up sections of the Girl Scout Trail singletrack. The top tube of the size large measured a full 24", but the stem was a pretty diminutive 50mm or so, so the cockpit was pretty short and upright. The weight distribution was not overly rearward as it seems to be on the AS-X, VPFree, and other FR bikes in this class, which helped in climbing noticeably. While not a pleasure to pedal up hills, it was certainly manageable. The Mr Dirt chainguide also came with a single, 36t ring, which added to the challenge, but I was able to muddle through the climb effectively (It didn't hurt that it was the first climb of the day and before the temps rose to the mid-90's). The bike pedals impressively for such a big rig. The weight seemed manageable (compared to the AS-X) and the suspension was not like drowning in a bowl of Jell-o (again, like the AS-X). In fact, even out of the saddle pedaling resulted in negligible movement. Dave obviously knows something about doing single pivots right after experiencing the great pedaling manners of the DHR last year. Descending was smooth and confident. The Turner balance was in full evidence. There was no wheel flop or pushing through corners. The turning behavior was actually surprisingly sprightly for a big rig.

http://img376.echo.cx/img376/1209/hlfront4dx.jpg

http://img376.echo.cx/img376/1589/hlhanger1fa.jpg

http://img376.echo.cx/img376/9261/hlmid4ae.jpg

http://img376.echo.cx/img376/346/hlrocker5dq.jpg

http://img376.echo.cx/img376/858/hlside6tk.jpg

http://img375.echo.cx/img375/1913/hlshockmount7lp.jpg

We rode a lot of other bikes, but I'm going to bed. I'll post more tomorrow. Another freaking hot day for this poor Alaskan. ;)

Nice pics of the Highline, makes the wait a little more bearable to belive that the bike does actually exist afterall!!

Tscheezy, would you know how heavy the Highline frame is? :)

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105065&stc=1

where's the turner nitrous report? :confused:

Marzocchi's?

Airwreck, sorry mate havent got a clue what those scales say???? :confused:

Airwreck, sorry mate havent got a clue what those scales say???? :confused:
either
9,931
or
9.931
or
9lbs 9 oz.
or
9.9 lbs.

apparently I don't either :p

either
9,931
or
9.931
or
9lbs 9 oz.
or
9.9 lbs.

apparently I don't either :p


Cool, at least it doesnt begin 12, so I will be able to pick it up!!

would it be possible to let us know when the new TNT frames will be supplied. I'm wondering if backorders will be filled with the new frame?

would appreciate some info
thanks

Leight

Tell Sean not to overeat at the Buffets ;)

Thanks for the posts, TS. I hope you get to spend some time on the new faux-bar Spot. I'm curious about your impressions.

At the end of the day, I'd like you to answer one question.

If DT offered both the HL Spot and the faux-bar Spot........ Which one would you buy?

I'd be curious whether Larry thinks the TNT's ride like Ventana clones or classic Turners.

Great writeup Ts. Tnx!
I see you found the same rock from last year to take pictures at.:D

Cheers Philip - good stuff as always!

I see the new FB puts the zerk in a more accessible position - my glass is half-full :^)

Really like the way there is a family look to all the bikes. That white 6-pack with the black Van36 has to be the rightest looking Alpine bike ever. If only I rode hard enough to warrant one.

Enjoy yourselves out there and if you see anything by Jericho or Ibis, get snapping! :^)

if you don't mind me butting in, i can give some impressions of the air/air 6-pack that they had at the show (DHX air, Fox 36 TALAS RC2)... first, the bike was set up WAY too soft for me, which was remedied by the fox shox guys that were set up on the trail. GREAT IDEA by fox to do this. once they helped me dial in the air pressure and pro-pedal settings, the bike felt amazing. i'm 5'11", and the large with a 70mm FSA stem felt great to me (bars maybe a little wide, but that's personal preference). it railed through corners with stiffness i haven't felt outside of my foes (it felt stiffer than a 5 spot to me), and it was totally smooth on the rough stuff. this is a bike that feels great at high speeds- i'm not a very fast rider, and i was pushing my limits because i felt so comfortable on it. it's a tad heavy, but with air on both ends, the frame weighs in the mid 8 lb range, which is okay for a trail bike. plus, with the travel adjust on the front end, you can steepen the head angle for climbing relatively easily. although you lose some of the super-slacked out feeling you get from the 36 van, i think it's worth it (especially if the 6 pack is going to be your only bike or your main bike). plus, the way they mount the shock allows you to reach the propedal knob really easily from the saddle. so if you hit a climb, you can crank it up a few clicks without dismounting. and yes, if you set the shock up right, you can get the bike to ride bob-free while seated. for reference, i weigh 215 with gear, and the fox guys recommended 170lbs in the DHX air. they suggest putting in more air pressure and backing off the pro-pedal as necessary for a smooth ride. all around, this is a GREAT bike. i see now what you turner guys have been talking about all these years.

I'd be curious whether Larry thinks the TNT's ride like Ventana clones or classic Turners.

I'd be surprised if the compression stroke feels like Ventanas' because the leverage ratios are completely different.

Take a close look at the Ventana rockers. They are MUCH shorter than what you typically see on an equivalent Turner.

Also I believe that the short rockers, in comparison to the quad-bearing-seatstay pivot-blah,blah, blah - has more to due with Ventana's amazing rear-end stiffness.

Good stuff. I'm looking forward to the thoughts/ride impressions on the HL vs. non-HL bikes.

Santa Cruz Heckler- Manitou Firefly Plus/5th Element Air (6x6"). A very balanced bike overall. It descended plush and pedaled well when the trail was not overly rough. The rear end fought climbing squat impressively, presumably through chain tension, because rolling over bigger trail obstacles when in the granny ring did result in some pedal-stall, pedal-feedback, and suspension stiffening. The 5th rode well and the Firefly Plus was a nice fork. A solid package overall and a great handling bike. This was the only model bike today where I thought I felt suspension stiffening under rear braking.

http://img33.echo.cx/img33/4829/heckdrop1aw.jpg

http://img33.echo.cx/img33/7560/heckfront0ai.jpg

http://img33.echo.cx/img33/6602/heckside3xj.jpg

Santa Cruz VPFree- Marzocchi 888RC/DHX Coil (8x8"). Less pleasurable to ride than last year due to the very tall feeling 888. The top tube was xc-long (size large) but there was a much greater rearward weight bias than with the Boxxer from last year. It made climbing tough, and I was glad to hang onto the side of the DH shuttle rig for the last 1/2-mile of the climb to the saddle. In or out of the saddle pedaling was very stable though. I liked the DHX coil on the VPFree more than the 5th coil from last year which was a bit harsh. The 888 definitely gives it a strong DH/FR flavor and cuts out a lot of the trail riding ability. The pedaling does not need much help from the shock seemingly. The long top tube and strong rearward bias was incongruous though. I felt like I was falling off the back of the bike but still had to reach pretty far forward for the bars despite the short direct-mount stem. The bike is plush and allows you to pedal through very rough sections with minimal pedal feedback, and still very solid power transfer. The 888 is a lot of fork.

http://img123.echo.cx/img123/7519/vpbottom7nx.jpg

http://img123.echo.cx/img123/2364/vprear5ma.jpg

http://img123.echo.cx/img123/6195/vpside7tr.jpg

Giant Reign- Manitou Flick/Fox RP3 (6x6"). A very impressive bike. It strikes a great balance between reasonable weight, plush ride, effective pedaling stability, and neutral handling. It felt lighter than my 6-Pack, but pedaled similarly well and had comparable suspension compliance through rough sections. The Flick Plus was also one of the only Manitou forks I liked today. All the other Manitous had some sort of clunk, top-out whack, or just a mediocre ride in general. The bike was not peppy, exactly, but did move out and get up to speed with minimal fuss. The standover is excellent and the overall finish good. Poor rear cable routing in that a loop of rear der cable sticks out to side and hits your leg. Ugly color.

Forgot pics. Sorry.

Giant Trance- Rockshox Reba SL/Fox RP3 (4.5x4"). Ok bike. Not that exciting. The Reba was not as impressive as the other Rockshox I have ridden of late, and the rear end was not as plush as some other RP3 bikes out there. I was also a bit surprised at the amount of suspension movement under power both seated and standing. I added some air pressure and that might have compromised some plushness. It was surprising because the similarly executed (and longer travel) Reign seemed like a better pedaler and plusher. Others complained a lot about pedal strike on both Giants, but I did not notice it on the Reign, only on the Trance. The handling was nice, actually reasonably stable for an xc-leaning bike, but as an overall package not super impressive. The cable routing was annoying in that it wanted to bow out and rub on your leg under compression. A minor point.

http://img277.echo.cx/img277/4439/trancerock1nz.jpg

http://img277.echo.cx/img277/5122/tranceshock7fo.jpg

http://img277.echo.cx/img277/94/tranceside6cu.jpg

http://img277.echo.cx/img277/3893/tranceyoke9mk.jpg

Iron Horse MKIII- Manitou Nixon Platinum/5th Element Air (6x5"). I did not like this bike much. The head angle seemed very steep and combined with very wide bars and an incompliant suspension; it made for a twitchy ride. It was a challenge holding speed through the technical sections with the somewhat nervous, squirrelly handling. The Nixon had a bit of a top-out knock in it and the 5th Air rear rode harshly despite being at the lower end of the CVT range. The whole bike seemed to skitter down the trail. Pedaling manners were actually good overall, but traction was not great due to the harsh rear end. I really wonder how this bike would ride with an RP3 or DHX Air. The ride just seemed woefully under-damped and so not very plush. I was looking forward to a DW-link bike but I was stymied by some poor shocks, I think. I'll try to get my mitts on a 7point7 and see if the trend continues. The similarly executed Reign definitely had a much more refined ride. I also did not care for the color, I hate integrated headsets, and the El Caminos were so-so. Sorry, but pass. Oh, the guys at the Iron Hose booth were royal @ssholes to boot. Run away.

http://img393.echo.cx/img393/517/mkprofile2zw.jpg

http://img393.echo.cx/img393/3941/mkshock2ts.jpg

http://img393.echo.cx/img393/3742/mkside8we.jpg

http://img393.echo.cx/img393/4976/mkyoke5qx.jpg

I'd be surprised if the compression stroke feels like Ventanas' because the leverage ratios are completely different.


This is the one thing I would like to see changed on the 6 Pack/RFX (or what-ever it is going to be called).

A 7.875" i-2-i shock would lower the compression ratio from 3:1 to 2.66:1 and require less air in the main spring of the DHX-A and also less bottom out which would make the shock a little more adjustable and might even help the performance some.

I'd be curious whether Larry thinks the TNT's ride like Ventana clones or classic Turners.

More like the classic Turners. They all rode really well and didn't feel much different if any than the horst frames. I'll post more later, we're heading out the door for day 2.
Larry

Kind of bums me out about the Highline being short in the cockpit. I talked to Crash who is 6'2 like me who felt very cramped on the large. Sounds like I'll have to stick with the VP Free for another year or so.

There is a short ride report on one of the new Turners over on NSMB at the bottom of this page:

http://www.nsmb.com/gear/dirtdemo05.php

Oh, the guys at the Iron Hose booth were royal @ssholes to boot. Run away.

hmm...ya might wanna stop by the booth again. If you don't catch me personally at Dirt Demo today catch me in the booth during the show. Let's discuss your reaction to the bike and your comments. I think some stuff wasn't exactly set-up for your weight, etc or you are thinking about this bike from a different angle then what the design parameters/recommended useage are.

-ska todd

good luck! sean needs to carbo load for the evening "activity" he has planned at the chicken ranch

good point....surprised a bit to not yet see any pics/reports from Ibike on the 29ers....

You fellas need to snag the Lenz Behemoth and Leviathan for a spin and compare against all the other bikes.

Tscheesy - have you ridden the Intense 6.6 or Nomad???

hmm...ya might wanna stop by the booth again. If you don't catch me personally at Dirt Demo today catch me in the booth during the show. Let's discuss your reaction to the bike and your comments. I think some stuff wasn't exactly set-up for your weight, etc or you are thinking about this bike from a different angle then what the design parameters/recommended useage are.

-ska todd Isn't that also a 2005 model and not a 2006 which has different components and a slightly slacker head tube angle??

The IH bikes also use internal headsets and not the much maligned integrated headsets Phillip.

Hey Tscheezy,
I found that the MKIII rode like dookie until I dropped the 5th air's IFP to 50psi (absolute min.), and then dialed in the main chamber to approximately 1/4-1/3 sag (must have been only 85-90psi or so for my 170 lb riding weight).

Your DW comments were very similar to my initial experience on my test ride until I dropped both pressures quite a bit. Although, maybe you had already tried that. Hmmm....

Thanks for all the reporting and pics TS. Your efforts are appreciated!

Kind of bums me out about the Highline being short in the cockpit. I talked to Crash who is 6'2 like me who felt very cramped on the large. Sounds like I'll have to stick with the VP Free for another year or so.

Keep in mind the messenger. Tsteeezy isn't a DH guy. Trail/xc bikes have seats raised, longer stems to get you over the front wheel as well as steeper angles. The highline is made for descending......meaning standing up for the most part, like on a DH bike. When I sit on my DHR or Uzzi, it's definitely tighter spacing between the points of contact (butt and handlebars) but they fit for their intended purpose.

Tscheezy: Maybe you could get a downtube measurement on a highline if you get a chance? I'd be interested as well. BB height too? Purty please?

Isn't that also a 2005 model and not a 2006 which has different components and a slightly slacker head tube angle?? si - the 2006 MK III has a slacker head angle, but only 1/2 a degree.

I also agree with Bikerx40 - suspension setup is critical on DW-Link bikes..

si - the 2006 MK III has a slacker head angle, but only 1/2 a degree.
Wonder why they had the 2005s for test rides and not 2006s or maybe all the 2006s were spoken for??

shock tuning is critical on these bikes - I wonder if anyone worked with Phillip to get the shock dialed in for his weight etc. etc. You gotta get the right amount of sag and the right amount of pressure (low) in the SPV valve for these suckers to ride well.

Keep in mind the messenger. Tsteeezy isn't a DH guy. Trail/xc bikes have seats raised, longer stems to get you over the front wheel as well as steeper angles. The highline is made for descending......meaning standing up for the most part, like on a DH bike. When I sit on my DHR or Uzzi, it's definitely tighter spacing between the points of contact (butt and handlebars) but they fit for their intended purpose.

don't try to tell this fact to Aquaholic, he'll say XC is good for all.

Hey cheeze- tell me more about the der. hangy thing in the one Highline shot, is that a Turner only thing or is it an aftermarket deal. I'm constantly twisting my hangers and that think looks cool!

Yeah, what Bigdrunk says, get your butts on the Lenz Behemoth and tell us how it rides compared to all the hyped kiddy wheel competition :-)