Just got an email from Chris @ Niner and he said their new flat 31.8 clamp, 710mm (28") wide bar will be available later this month. I think it will be a 12 degree sweep. I am sure we will know more once they are available.

Can't wait!

More good news to go with their steel frame and rigid fork.
11 or 12 degrees of sweep on a wide, flat bar seems to really be a sweet spot. Though, 28" is certainly too wide for me, but it's great to have the ability to go really wide or cut them to your fav. length.

OGG

Yesterday in a gearie race with lots violently winding singletrack, I ran a 12� Syntace EcoRize (1/2"), which including cork grips measured 660mm or so. To narrow for me to do any short climbing without barends, but about sufficient sweep for regular holding-the-bar. I've got a 11� Salsa that weighs 120g less and is just as wide, but any less sweep just seems like going backwards, so I haven't swapped them yet after 3 months.
Then, most will probably think 12º is the absolute most they'll allow on their flat bar, so pretty daring as a product for sure. I like the width, now that my fitness is worse by the day, a wide bar helps me hold on to it.

but the weight weenie in me needs to know the weight. Even the Niner website does not say. Not the deal breaker mind you, but definatley part of the decision making progress.

If you're a weight weenie, why do you want to run a 31.8 bar? All the stems I've seen at that size are huge chunky DH beasts.

More sweep is good, wide bars are good. This could be the ticket for my big bike.

If you're a weight weenie, why do you want to run a 31.8 bar? All the stems I've seen at that size are huge chunky DH beasts.

More sweep is good, wide bars are good. This could be the ticket for my big bike.

Witness the thomson elite x4 at 169 grams for 31.8 bars:
http://online.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/SM3309.jpg

I have one of these clamped onto a very wide and kinda heavy truvativ team riser bar and puny bar ends on my ss. Stiff! Feels fantastarific.

I should mention that I'm phobic of the kind of "internal" clamps found on the thomson elite stem- that was the main reason I went with 31.8. I used to have a syncros stem w/an internal clamp that never seemed to hold the steer tube tight enough to keep the headset in adjustment.

Witness the thomson elite x4 at 169 grams for 31.8 bars:
http://online.qbp.com/6SPsvm45/prodl/SM3309.jpg

I have one of these clamped onto a very wide and kinda heavy truvativ team riser bar and puny bar ends on my ss. Stiff! Feels fantastarific.

The only stem I run. :D

We are using the 31.8 because we believe the old bar standard will be replaced by the 31.8. Almost all stem manufactures are going to have a 31.8 stem at Interbike this year and most of the bar manufactures as well. It makes sense for the stem manufactures to do this because they can use the same size for road and mountain. As time goes on there will be little if no weight penalty going to the 31.8 as companies refine their designs.

We are using the 31.8 because we believe the old bar standard will be replaced by the 31.8. Almost all stem manufactures are going to have a 31.8 stem at Interbike this year and most of the bar manufactures as well. It makes sense for the stem manufactures to do this because they can use the same size for road and mountain. As time goes on there will be little if no weight penalty going to the 31.8 as companies refine their designs.
Any idea how much your bars will weigh?

If you're a weight weenie, why do you want to run a 31.8 bar? All the stems I've seen at that size are huge chunky DH beasts.

More sweep is good, wide bars are good. This could be the ticket for my big bike.
http://bontrager.com/Mountain/Components/Stems/5834.php

my weight weenieness is only a 6, 7 tops...I don't let bike weight run my life, but if left unchecked we'd all be riding 40lb bikes ;) But on a SS the extra stiffness would be nice, and I'd like both MTB's to be the same for stem swap reasons. I'll take a little extra weight if it serves a bigger purpose ( Fox Forks, disc brakes, ) Also its obvious that the industry is switching to OS , no point in fighting it.

Almost all stem manufactures are going to have a 31.8 stem at Interbike this year and most of the bar manufactures as well. It makes sense for the stem manufactures to do this because they can use the same size for road and mountain.


This is a constant argument within Salsa and with some retailers. We produce tons of bars and stems. We always struggle with the question "What bar bore size should we do our new stems or bars in, 31.8, 26.0 and/or 25.4?"

While I believe that most stem mfgs will be offering 31.8 so they can simplify their stem offerings, I just don't think that is the right reason. Just like the whole 26" vs 29" wheel debate, the debate should be settled by the ride, ride quality and intended use. It just doesn't make sense to put a 145 lb XC rider on an overly stiff 31.8 bar/stem nor does it make any sense to have a 36cm road bar in 31.8mm. The ride quality is just too stiff and I personally think you feel it. I'm sure some other manufacturers and folks on this board will disagree with me. But for me, even at an official clydesdale weight, I switched back to a 25.4 scandium stem along with a matching carbon bar. Why? It's more comfortable which translated to more fun on my bike.

Ultimately, it is up to everyone to make that decision for themselves. 31.8 has its place.
We use use it and have more stuff in development that will serve this market.

Jason
Salsa Crew

Jason, how about that considered 11º version of your carbon Moto-Ace? If you'd have gone 11º rather than 5º for it, my dreambike sheet would have an already-bought 40g lighter handlebar on it than now, an unfortunately shortened 11º alu Moto-Ace. 11º really is the very, VERY straightest I will ever buy the rest of my life for "flat bar" usage, but I'd buy one in a heartbeat. On of the very few sensible upgrades left to my upcoming dreamracer project.

I think 25.4mm is just fine. Good stems can be made for it, sufficiently stiff and light too. Nothing beats the looks of that above pictured Thomson, though...

Jason, how about that considered 11º version of your carbon Moto-Ace? If you'd have gone 11º rather than 5º for it, my dreambike sheet would have an already-bought 40g lighter handlebar on it than now, an unfortunately shortened 11º alu Moto-Ace. 11º really is the very, VERY straightest I will ever buy the rest of my life for "flat bar" usage, but I'd buy one in a heartbeat. On of the very few sensible upgrades left to my upcoming dreamracer project.

I think 25.4mm is just fine. Good stems can be made for it, sufficiently stiff and light too. Nothing beats the looks of that above pictured Thomson, though...

Cloxxki, all I can say at this time is that we understand and agree with you on 11^ and higher. I'm stuck on my personal bike because I want the bend of my 11 degree Promoto aluminum, but really want the comfort of the ProMoto carbon. Hopefully, we'll be able to provide you with your dream bar in the near future.

One question though, every time I put an 11 degree or more bend on my bike, I also feel like I need to lengthen the stem by a centimeter. Do you have this same feeling. I know that this is a common discussion with H-bars, but what about true flat bars with bigger bends?

Regarding the Thomson stem. Yes, I think they are very pretty too. Functional as well. Mr. Thomson sure makes good stuff.

j

Any idea how much your bars will weigh?

I called Niner about a One9 frame a couple of days ago and asked about the weight on the bars as well. So far it looks like they'll be around 200grams but will be pretty wide so you could take some weight off of that. Also, the sweep won't be the 12 degrees as mentioned in this thread, more like 9.

Don

This is a constant argument within Salsa and with some retailers. We produce tons of bars and stems. We always struggle with the question "What bar bore size should we do our new stems or bars in, 31.8, 26.0 and/or 25.4?"

While I believe that most stem mfgs will be offering 31.8 so they can simplify their stem offerings, I just don't think that is the right reason. Just like the whole 26" vs 29" wheel debate, the debate should be settled by the ride, ride quality and intended use. It just doesn't make sense to put a 145 lb XC rider on an overly stiff 31.8 bar/stem nor does it make any sense to have a 36cm road bar in 31.8mm. The ride quality is just too stiff and I personally think you feel it. I'm sure some other manufacturers and folks on this board will disagree with me. But for me, even at an official clydesdale weight, I switched back to a 25.4 scandium stem along with a matching carbon bar. Why? It's more comfortable which translated to more fun on my bike.

Ultimately, it is up to everyone to make that decision for themselves. 31.8 has its place.
We use use it and have more stuff in development that will serve this market.

Jason
Salsa Crew

I agree. While the 31.8 benefits me tremendously on my road bike, I don't have any plans to switch on the mtb. I would do the same thing if I was in Niner's place, it just wouldn't make sense to offer a new bar in anything but the "new" standard. I'm a big rider but I don't have any problems with my 25.4 stuff flexing. I do however have trouble with mounting lights and things on the bigger bars.

I'm sure it's important to some people to have a Niner 31.8 bar on their bikes, but you guys should know that big sweep, 31.8 flat bars have been available for years under the Monty, Megamo and Echo names. They're still out there, as are a few more...namely BT, Koxx and Pazzaz

Yeah, I can handle longer stems with bigger sweep bars, but don't always feel like I need to. On-One to correct for this gives bars and extra forward sweep, which may also add a nice narrow hand position near the stem, though kill any room for speedometers and such. I don't care much about the reduced rach of 11º bars, it should simply be the next standard in bar sweep, as the flattest available.

OK, now my high school trigonometry may be a little rusty, but yes there is qute a big difference in effective reach from going to a more swept bar. Ignoring any vertical element, assuming the bar is a straight line, and the length of the bar is measured from the ends to the stem (good question - is a bar's width measured around the bend or in a straight line across the ends?). With these assumptions a 700mm wide bar with 11deg bend will be 36mm further back than one with a 5deg bend. This is at the end of the bars, so where your hands sit it's not quite so much. But yes Salsaman - a 1 cm longer stem (at least) may be required to have a similar feeling reach.

Sam

Ok 29'er noob question. Why do you need to go to a 28" wide bar for a 29" bike? What are the issues with using the 23" bar? Also, wouldn't the 28 inch bar be a potential tree/bush snagging issue on tight trails? There are times when trees jump out to grab my 23" bar and if it was a 28" er there is a high probability it would have resulted in a crash.

Bars often have a flat centre piece which limits change in reach. If you go from a norrow bar to a wider one, you also require less reach. Hold a broomstick while sitting behind a kitchen table (or and empty space to lean on). If you widen the grip, the broom will come closer.

I have also recently switched from the famed riser bars to a Salsa 11 degree bar and felt that I needed to lengthen the stem. So I did and the bike has never felt better. I think this also goes for bars like the Steel Surly Torsion Bar with its 15 degree bend.

I'm also with Cloxxki on an 11 degree carbon bar. I miss the dampening of the higher frequency vibrations that my carbon riser offered. I'm not about to go back, but I hope we will see that carbon 11 degree soon.

In general I love the sampling of hand positions and bar configurations that is happening right now. I am sure all the Euro riders can tell you that on a lot of the city bikes over there bars come in all shapes and sizes. In the states we tend to want to make everything the same. I'm glad that Jones came out with his and On-One followed with all of theirs.

Cool...I didn't know that you could get light stems in 31.8. That'll be nice for singlespeeders and other people who like to crank out of the saddle.

Ok 29'er noob question. Why do you need to go to a 28" wide bar for a 29" bike? What are the issues with using the 23" bar? Also, wouldn't the 28 inch bar be a potential tree/bush snagging issue on tight trails? There are times when trees jump out to grab my 23" bar and if it was a 28" er there is a high probability it would have resulted in a crash.

Many people feel they have more control with longer bars. Also, with the increased sweep, the bars won't feel as wide. You can always cut them down to where you're comfortable.

Don

I think the deamnd-side of the market is becoming ready for a "bling" carbon big sweep bar. I'm talking 25 to 40 degree, with anatomically shaped "aero" position near the stem.

Why would you want an aero section? Unless I'm riding an enduro, with a lot or road section (maybe 1x a year), what would be the point. In a trail, you should have your hands on the controls.

Some updated info everybody:

Here is the real scoop with the real numbers:

Niner Flat Top 9, 28 inches wide, 9 degree sweep, 31.8 clamp (as you know) and 260 grams. Here's the reasons:

As stated previously in this thread, there are a plethora of off the shelf tiawan bars that are super wide (28+ inches) with 14 degree sweeps. These bars are intended for trials use and are incredibly heavy (310 grams). We prototyped a set of these bars and this is what we found:

The sweep is nice, but definitly requires a longer stem, no question. Also, 310+ grams is too heavy.

I would like to answer the question about the width we went with and the 31.8 clamp diameter. The width is simple, we wanted a flat bar that single speeders could use on their 29" wheel bikes. Chris and I were at the races and we saw a plethora of strange set-ups to keep the bars down. The only way to get wide bars for single speeders is to use riser bars (for the most part) so there were people with riser bars and inverted stems. We wanted to offer a bar that wouldn't require this type of set up. We've added hash marks to the end of the bars so cutting them down will be a no brainer. As far as 31.8 goes, yes, it is becoming more and more prevelant in the mtb community. That was one reason. The other reason is because we wanted the bar to be stiff. As the width grows for a handlebar, so does the leverage, and single speeders are especially rough on bars in out of the saddle climbs where you're just pulling and pushing on those things with everything you've got. We definitly wanted the bars to be able to take the abuse and feel solid. I agree with the fellas over at Salsa, 31.8 isn't for everthing. For the most part, consumers are buying into a technology that the bad ass sprinters from the tour de france wanted, and now it's everywhere. Most road bikes would be better off with the 26.0 diameter, especially for the majority of casual cyclists who are now riding 31.8 bars.

In the end, we decided to go with a 9 degree sweep. Both Chris and I have spent a lot of time on Easton's riser bars, and they feel very comfortable with a 9 degree sweep. This also means that you can run a normal stem length, which also appealed to us.

As far as the weight goes, 260 grams is respectible, albeit, not super light. Once again, with the added leverage of the wide bars, we needed to be sure that these bars would take the pounding. They had to pass an extremelly rigourous lab test in order to make sure that they could be stamped with the Niner logo. Since a failing handlebar might possibly cause the worst kind of injury, we went a little on the safe side.

The bars will be $49 and will be availible by the beginning of October. Here's a pic (it's not super hi res, so there might be some pixilation)

The bars will be $49 and will be availible by the beginning of October. Here's a pic (it's not super hi res, so there might be some pixilation)


Delicious. Downright delicious.

Some updated info everybody:

As stated previously in this thread, there are a plethora of off the shelf tiawan bars that are super wide (28+ inches) with 14 degree sweeps. These bars are intended for trials use and are incredibly heavy (310 grams). We prototyped a set of these bars and this is what we found:

The sweep is nice, but definitly requires a longer stem, no question. Also, 310+ grams is too heavy.

The bars will be $49 and will be availible by the beginning of October. Here's a pic (it's not super hi res, so there might be some pixilation)
True.

For the record, the Monty flat bars came in at around 240g but they were only 26.5" wide.

Don't be surprised if you get more than a few trials riders buying these. I'll cross post this to ObservedTrials.net and see what kind of response you get there.


-S

Some updated info everybody:

Here is the real scoop with the real numbers:

Niner Flat Top 9, 28 inches wide, 9 degree sweep, 31.8 clamp (as you know) and 260 grams. Here's the reasons:

As stated previously in this thread, there are a plethora of off the shelf tiawan bars that are super wide (28+ inches) with 14 degree sweeps. These bars are intended for trials use and are incredibly heavy (310 grams). We prototyped a set of these bars and this is what we found:

The sweep is nice, but definitly requires a longer stem, no question. Also, 310+ grams is too heavy.

I would like to answer the question about the width we went with and the 31.8 clamp diameter. The width is simple, we wanted a flat bar that single speeders could use on their 29" wheel bikes. Chris and I were at the races and we saw a plethora of strange set-ups to keep the bars down. The only way to get wide bars for single speeders is to use riser bars (for the most part) so there were people with riser bars and inverted stems. We wanted to offer a bar that wouldn't require this type of set up. We've added hash marks to the end of the bars so cutting them down will be a no brainer. As far as 31.8 goes, yes, it is becoming more and more prevelant in the mtb community. That was one reason. The other reason is because we wanted the bar to be stiff. As the width grows for a handlebar, so does the leverage, and single speeders are especially rough on bars in out of the saddle climbs where you're just pulling and pushing on those things with everything you've got. We definitly wanted the bars to be able to take the abuse and feel solid. I agree with the fellas over at Salsa, 31.8 isn't for everthing. For the most part, consumers are buying into a technology that the bad ass sprinters from the tour de france wanted, and now it's everywhere. Most road bikes would be better off with the 26.0 diameter, especially for the majority of casual cyclists who are now riding 31.8 bars.

In the end, we decided to go with a 9 degree sweep. Both Chris and I have spent a lot of time on Easton's riser bars, and they feel very comfortable with a 9 degree sweep. This also means that you can run a normal stem length, which also appealed to us.

As far as the weight goes, 260 grams is respectible, albeit, not super light. Once again, with the added leverage of the wide bars, we needed to be sure that these bars would take the pounding. They had to pass an extremelly rigourous lab test in order to make sure that they could be stamped with the Niner logo. Since a failing handlebar might possibly cause the worst kind of injury, we went a little on the safe side.

The bars will be $49 and will be availible by the beginning of October. Here's a pic (it's not super hi res, so there might be some pixilation)

I will take two of them.

Hmmm, we're getting a pretty decent list of widish bars!

Niner Flat Top 9 - 28" 9º 31.8
On-One Fleegle - 28" 15º 25.4
On-One Mary - 26" 38º 25.4
Salsa Pro Moto - 26" 5º alu or carbon and 11º alu. PLEASE soon the 11º in carbon too!