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  1. #1
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    Caution;  Merge;  Workers Ahead! XPE Helmet light

    I have had these Q5 XPE for a couple of weeks now and have been wondering what to do with them . I did think about using 4 with a dual MCE light .

    Then rummaging around in the warehouse of the place I work I came across this aluminium curtain rail thingy so borrowed an off cut for research .

    Znomit did a build using a similar extrusion

    After attacking it with a measure and looking at the spec for the carclo 10 mm square optics . it was made for this build I think.

    now which build is going to be the best











    It has come to the point when it is the driver that takes up most space so thinking the maxflex can go live in with the battery
    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 01-08-2009 at 09:36 AM.

  2. #2
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    Second one i think,a bit more usable area to heatsink perhaps?
    Also you might be able to lense it like a seca or have a high/low setup without it looking uneven.

  3. #3
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    My nod goes the horizontal configuration, especially after seeing that side angle shot with the helmet. Very low-profile, looks great.

  4. #4
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    Looks very clean and nice, but I too am pretty sure you need more cooling. Remember it will have to dissipate about 15W it you are driving them at 600mA. I was surprised how hot the XP-E got even when properly heatsinked. I had it on a 450g copper heatsink and still it would get burning hot when you pressed your finger on top of it.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gillestugan
    Looks very clean and nice, but I too am pretty sure you need more cooling.
    +1

    I am sure you already have some ideas but a slug between the two halves of the curtain rail and some old computer heat sinks on the ends might be feasible.

  6. #6
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    It is still in the thinking stages and I like the low profile look
    what it needs is an aluminium peak on the helmet ..

    yep @ 500ma it warms up pretty quick

    will have to wait and see what the optics are like when they arrive before the final light is decided

  7. #7
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    I'm also considering building a bigger version of the Pipe Light using the next size up pipe fiitting to be able to put 9 XPE's driven 3 parallel in series fed by a maxflex.
    My problem is there are no dimensional drawings on the Cutter website of the 10mm MCPCB to tell me if the indentations on the pcb are made for the Carclo 10412 etc lenses to fit over or do the legs of the lens fit into the two holes of the pcb.
    Can anyone confirm or post the correct dimensions please.

  8. #8
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    I cant wait to see this build! 8 of them you really are mad! I was thinking of using 3 and doing a 1/2 scale achesalot build. I am sure you will post some sort of beam shot since you always do. I hope the 10mm squares are nice. Any plans to try any of the other xp-e optics? The khatod .5" x 1.5" strip looks like it could be trimmed down to 10mm.

  9. #9
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    With a few well placed cuts you could bend it to match the curve of the helmet.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by formantjim
    My problem is there are no dimensional drawings on the Cutter website of the 10mm MCPCB to tell me if the indentations on the pcb are made for the Carclo 10412 etc lenses to fit over or do the legs of the lens fit into the two holes of the pcb.
    Can anyone confirm or post the correct dimensions please.
    Looking at the data sheet for the 10412 optic the legs just sit around the 10 mm board .
    I cant see them going into any of the indents as there are only 2 opposing each other.


    Bikerjay.
    You are indeed correct in your analysis

    The final build will depend on what the beam looks like from these wee beasties
    I have ordered the 10417 I did not notice the 10412 had a better efficiency

    Beam shots will be posted when they are here
    No plans yet to try any other optics


    Znomit

    Nice idea but could look a bit messy
    but it may be 2 * 3 XPE fitted to the helmet peak

  11. #11
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    This is really interesting....those things look tiny!! Should be interesting to see what you can come up with Chris

    I reckon I could modify my housing to get, maybe, 6 of those in...without too much trouble. How could they be driven??

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    what it needs is an aluminium peak on the helmet ..
    Or and aluminium helmet!

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by deesta
    This is really interesting....those things look tiny!! Should be interesting to see what you can come up with Chris

    I reckon I could modify my housing to get, maybe, 6 of those in...without too much trouble. How could they be driven??
    I am very undecided at the moment Steve..

    hell only 6 in your housing
    I just had a look and 14 would squeeze in
    but 12 would be realistic and a maxflex or hipflex to power them



    Oh that is the shotblasted and anodised one


    Or you could go 9 xpe and the 20 mm triples Now that could be something Else .
    A bit less heat than 3 mce and maybe a better beam

  14. #14
    A waste of time it is is
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    Or you could go 9 xpe and the 20 mm triples Now that could be something Else .
    A bit less heat than 3 mce and maybe a better beam
    But isn't the best angle for the 20mm triple a half angle of 18 degrees, ie total angle of 36 degrees? That makes it more of a flood. No joy with sourceing small quantities of the Polymer Optics range?

    On another note Chris, I took the beast out on Wednesday night for the first ride. 38 showed up for a social ride but we were back at the pub before it was truely dark so didn't get to use it. Video this week I promise

  15. #15
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    Chris,
    Holy cow...14?? Really?? That would be good! I like the sound of the 3 triples with the 20 mm optic...I think I'll do a bit of research...they could well fit straight into the housing.
    Steve

  16. #16
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    Optics arrived today

    Here you go Steve 14 fit easy




    Boy are the tiny devils it is going to be like brain surgery this build.



    not dark yet

  17. #17
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    The Compulsery ceiling shots

    I have cobbled a test rig up for some beamshots .

    have I mentioned they are darn tiny things .

    one single XPE and Carclo 10417 narrow beam very small thing
    the tapes are 1 mtre long and 2.2 metres from the microscopic light



    and this is 4 of the little beggers ,



    when it gets proper dark I will wander out and get a shot on my test trail with these
    nano lights

  18. #18
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    Nutter!
    Thats more like it!
    Perfect light my arse!
    Tommo.

  19. #19
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    Bloody Hell....That would be some kinda light!!

    Are you going to have a go at doing all 14?? I reckon you should But the wiring might be interesting

    I think there are going to be some VERY small lights coming out of the TroutShed soon..

    Keep up the good work Chris

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by deesta
    Bloody Hell....That would be some kinda light!!

    Are you going to have a go at doing all 14?? I reckon you should But the wiring might be interesting

    I think there are going to be some VERY small lights coming out of the TroutShed soon..

    Keep up the good work Chris

    I have only got 8 XPE s so need to maximise what I do with them at the moment I have so many ideas I would need 100 to play with.

    ref the small lights I just wish you lived nearer I would like to get together and design something really radical I think these are to small for my manual lathing skills and crap mini mill.

    these things are small enough to put on your glasses never mind helmet.

    There is more wow factor from these than the MCE and 4 XPE with these 10 mm optics are IMHO better than 1 mce and boom reflector .

    ok on to the rather rushed beam shots I struggled a bit because the optics were not fixed and just sat on the leds.

    I tried to cover 2 leds up here so this is 2 up



    this was a bit easier to do the 4 up



    I have to say these shots do not do the these justice and I am very impressed with the performance for such a tiny package.
    there is no wasted light out the sides it all goes into the beam

    I think if you put 4 or 6 lined up on a helmet peak as tiny seperates you could taylor the perfect helmet light

  21. #21
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    The hotspot looks very similar to the boom SS in the wall beamshot. But then there is much less spill.

    Ooo, I want, I want, I want! They look so good when placed in a row like you have done. And the optics are also very shallow, so you will have much more room behind them for drivers and stuff. (if placed in a housing)

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by gillestugan
    The hotspot looks very similar to the boom SS in the wall beamshot. But then there is much less spill.

    Ooo, I want, I want, I want! They look so good when placed in a row like you have done. And the optics are also very shallow, so you will have much more room behind them for drivers and stuff. (if placed in a housing)

    As you may have gathered I am very excited by these and will have to endure a few hours in my freezing garage to come up with a housing .

    These are the Q5 s so the R2 will be a bit brighter but as you see with only 4 they throw to the trees at the back which are 75 mtrs away where the single boom struggles to get half that distance .

    Watch this space there is something really cool on the drawing board but will need Deesta`s CNC to do it justice , if he is willing and able to help

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    As you may have gathered I am very excited by these and will have to endure a few hours in my freezing garage to come up with a housing .

    These are the Q5 s so the R2 will be a bit brighter but as you see with only 4 they throw to the trees at the back which are 75 mtrs away where the single boom struggles to get half that distance .

    Watch this space there is something really cool on the drawing board but will need Deesta`s CNC to do it justice , if he is willing and able to help
    75 Meters of throw! ( 246ft.) Duh....I'm speechless. A six or eight setup could make a nice compact helmet light. Can't wait to see what the commercial bike light builders will do with these.

  24. #24
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    WOW

    I have to put the electronics with a remote switch now. There will not be any room for the electronics even in a well cooled light.

    Now I am really wondering, will a 5up 35mm be any good, it could easily be retrofitted to every ones 35mm cutter kits.

    Even the amoeba will soon see portly. Also this has got me wondering about the 20mm round triple, could make for some great dinotte style lights.

  25. #25
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    Willing...yes!! Able....depends on what it is

  26. #26
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    Bloody freezing in my garage

    I have just spent the last 4 hours wrapped up in my garage chewing a helmet light from a lump of ali.

    It was going to be kept secret untill finished but I am so excited about these little babies I had to share it .

    I will put up a few piccys

    I have gone for 6 XPEs as it makes a nice compact light and is ideal for the Maxflex to power from my 14.8 v batteries and I can run them at full chat if required







    I have tried to make it from one piece so the whole housing is the heat sink .
    and there is 10 mm of solid ali behind the leds which I will leave for now but will if needed cut cooling slots if it runs hot . the Maxflex has its own heat sink built in so it will monitor the leds too .

    then how to mount it to a helmet the thing was to keep it low profile and most mounting brackets add height .

    so I built in some rails and slots for a 25mm wide velcro strap the rails hold it just off the helmet so air can flow under
    the total height on the helmet is 25 mm so pretty low profile. not bad for a 1000 lumen helmet light

    It also has a M5 threaded hole in the bottom so a bar mount can be fitted







    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 01-10-2009 at 11:19 PM.

  27. #27
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    I wish that I had more time to tinker with aluminium. Had seven rebels and polymer optics just waiting for a housing for about a month now! Children and expensive wife usually get time/money first...

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by deesta
    Willing...yes!! Able....depends on what it is

    This is where you come in Steve I get this one working and post it to you (Not to keep ) and between us we make it better and you then make some for all the folk who find they want to build one on here and else where .

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by bumphumper
    I wish that I had more time to tinker with aluminium. Had seven rebels and polymer optics just waiting for a housing for about a month now! Children and expensive wife usually get time/money first...

    been there , kids now grown up and wife is glad to get me out of the way

  30. #30
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    Yet again Troutie, that is amazing.

    But where are the beam shots for this little beast?

    Ok, for a serious question, have you measured the vf or the XP-E? I am wondering if it is lower than claimed on the Cree data sheets in a similar way that the MC-E was / is

  31. #31
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    Well done trout. It will be very interesting to see the beam out of this one.

    Those square optics make for a really clean looking profile.

    The one piece design looks like it should do a nice job with the heat.

  32. #32
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    Is anyone worried about heat with these multi xp-e builds? Won't 6 of these in a case the size of a AA battery get pretty damn hot? there's not much surface area there.

    Love the idea of a tiny DIY light that blows away the big expensive commercial stuff, but not if my helmet is dripping flaming polystyrene on my head

    JZ
    It's not about speed, it's about lack of control.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimZinVT
    Is anyone worried about heat with these multi xp-e builds? Won't 6 of these in a case the size of a AA battery get pretty damn hot? there's not much surface area there.

    Love the idea of a tiny DIY light that blows away the big expensive commercial stuff, but not if my helmet is dripping flaming polystyrene on my head

    JZ
    I am waiting to see how trouts design goes. I have a feeling that it will be fine while ever he is moving but it will probably trip if he slows up at all. Keep pedaling trout!

  34. #34
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    There's a "heat dissipation" thread going, and they're talking about a rule-of-thumb of either 1sq" or 3sq" of surface area per watt. Seems like this is way under that....any plans to cut grooves or fins into the case Mr. Trout? (trout fins? :-)

    JZ
    It's not about speed, it's about lack of control.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26

    Ok, for a serious question, have you measured the vf or the XP-E? I am wondering if it is lower than claimed on the Cree data sheets in a similar way that the MC-E was / is
    Look here at post 20 and 24

  36. #36
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    Love your work Troutie!
    Brisbane, AU

  37. #37
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    This is where you come in Steve I get this one working and post it to you (Not to keep ) and between us we make it better and you then make some for all the folk who find they want to build one on here and else where..

    Sounds good to me Chris...looks like it could be an amazing little package!!!

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by emu26
    Yet again Troutie, that is amazing.

    But where are the beam shots for this little beast?

    Ok, for a serious question, have you measured the vf or the XP-E? I am wondering if it is lower than claimed on the Cree data sheets in a similar way that the MC-E was / is


    Cheers Stu

    Beam shots coming soon
    Salty has beaton me to it where the vfs are

    for this light with the 6 xpe @ 750ma 18.22v hi / lo 16.61v
    @ 500ma 18.16v 16.57v
    @ 350ma 17.8 v 16.49v
    -------------------------------------------

    JimZinVT
    I am not worried because this light is for me and the maxflex will be well heatsunk to the housing as it has its own little pillar machined in the housing . so it will be monitering temps.
    also keeping things cool here in the uk is not a problem our night time ambients in summer never top 14c much .

    I have areas I can add heatsinking fins too and also fin the solid sink behind the leds
    and the lid hasn not been made so may do some fins there also .

    I did think about just 4 XPE but there are enough quads around and 6 in series hit the maxflex sweet spot for a 14.8 li ion perfectly ..

    It also has a M5 threaded hole in the bottom for attachment of a bar mount to keep it versatile , and it Troutie style an aluminium one then makes the bars a superb heat sink as a few previous lights have proved.



    I have read the heat dissi thingy thread and am the suck it and see type of guy
    I understand heat and heatsinking but all that goes way over my head.

    I have seen this working and doubt it will see full power except on the downhills.
    ------------------------------

    Ta Hoots


    -----------------------------------

    Cheers Steve I am hoping between us we can do a housing from this that ticks all the boxes

    crazy bright with good beam
    good heat disipation
    light weight
    low profile
    good looking
    easy to build up
    and easy for you to CNC with only 2 parts

    Troutie off to do some beam shots now
    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 01-10-2009 at 11:20 PM.

  39. #39
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    ... and if we just ... BEAMSHOTS and I like them

    after my Sunday morning lie in till 06.30 it was up and out into minus 3c and gales to take some shots in the woods before daylight.
    it was nearly full moon so not too dark.
    these piccys taken at the MTBR standard settings


    woods in moonlight


    Edited due to driver error and unknown MA rating for these beam shots


    Last edited by troutie-mtb; 01-11-2009 at 08:07 AM.

  40. #40
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    There really doesn't appear to be too much difference between the levels judging from the pics (I opened the thread in 3 tabs so i could flick between the different pics to compare them). That will make for fantastic long run times as low beam looks like it will do a stella job.

    Big kudos for braving the weather to take the pics btw. Much appreciated Mr Trout!

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocean breathes salty
    There really doesn't appear to be too much difference between the levels judging from the pics (I opened the thread in 3 tabs so i could flick between the different pics to compare them). That will make for fantastic long run times as low beam looks like it will do a stella job.

    Big kudos for braving the weather to take the pics btw. Much appreciated Mr Trout!


    I did wonder about that too Salty
    I wonder if my Nflex was not getting enough volts from the makita 18 v pack
    we will see when the maxflex gets fitted. but still pretty impressive at low current

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    I did wonder about that too Salty
    I wonder if my Nflex was not getting enough volts from the makita 18 v pack
    we will see when the maxflex gets fitted. but still pretty impressive at low current
    That might explain it. If it proves to be the case, then high beam may turn out to be devastating

  43. #43
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well It has gained a bit of weight

    A bit more messing around in the garage and the light has gained a bit of weight
    and better heat sinking I hope .

    I made a lid and incorperated some fins and extended it over the leds to help transfer some heat away .

    and then I had the little step underneath and I had a memory chip heatsink in the things I wont chuck away it may come in Box.

    so with a bit of sanding on the belt sander we are making progress but we are up to 99 gms and still have to add a switch and power socket




  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by troutie-mtb
    A bit more messing around in the garage and the light has gained a bit of weight and better heat sinking I hope .

    I made a lid and incorporated some fins and extended it over the leds to help transfer some heat away ....
    I like those little Torx fasteners. Have you been cannibalizing hard-disk drives again?
    Brisbane, AU

  45. #45
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    Looking good Mr T...

  46. #46
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    I take it you used 6 of the Tight Narrow optics as this is mainly a helmet light? Looking at the Cutter site I see they have a Plain medium listed with the same half angle! That confuses me because I was thinking of a build with 4 spots and a couple of mediums to provide some flood. Anyone know if the Cutter info is erroneous? I don't really want to send off and get optics that are no use.

    [Edit]
    Found the Carclo data sheet and there is little or no difference between the Tight and the Plain Medium - in fact Carclo call them both Medium.

  47. #47
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    It is looking really good
    I think you would be really scarry with a 5 axed lathe.
    It is always exciting to follow your projects. How do you drill your inside corners away at the end of the lens section?

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by hootsmon
    I like those little Torx fasteners. Have you been cannibalizing hard-disk drives again?
    No Hoots they are just M3 button head hex in stainless
    and the back are M2




    and now a horror pic , I am glad it happened underneath on top would have been a disaster
    first a 1.6mm drill bit broke , no worries I have another, great hole no 2 fine then the bloody m2 tap broke in the next , and then on the other side I did not tap the first hole deap enough and the bolt stuck and rounded the hex off It was time for a cup of tea and quiet reflection.





    More10
    I hope this answers your question I just drilled a 3 mm hole past the corner
    and there is a lens cover to go in yet.so just left those round


  49. #49
    A waste of time it is is
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    It's refreshing to see you are human after all.

    As for the front pic, did the cold effect your ability to silicone neatly or is that the legs of the lenses that can be seen on the edges of the clear part of the optic?

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilt
    I take it you used 6 of the Tight Narrow optics as this is mainly a helmet light? Looking at the Cutter site I see they have a Plain medium listed with the same half angle! That confuses me because I was thinking of a build with 4 spots and a couple of mediums to provide some flood. Anyone know if the Cutter info is erroneous? I don't really want to send off and get optics that are no use.

    [Edit]
    Found the Carclo data sheet and there is little or no difference between the Tight and the Plain Medium - in fact Carclo call them both Medium.

    Neilt
    Yes I used the 10417 lens front .
    I got a tray from carclo so have a few spare , for sale if anyone wants any .

    I had the very same idea when doing the build about a couple of wider ones that would be a killer I think.

    I just need to pursuade Deesta to do me a better one

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