Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Hyperocity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    66

    Who makes quality helmets?

    Money is no object.

  2. #2
    Don't Worry Be Happy
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    29

  3. #3
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pharmaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    285
    XC/ road?

    Look at kali, s works, top of the line scott sports - all these use variable EPS that absorbs impact and decreases the shock to the brain. All others use a single density EPS that passes the test of a steel ball onto an anvil.

    I have been unable to find any scientific tests for the SIPS system - i suspect it is a decent idea without proof.

    Downhill etc - completely different ball game - though consider a leatt device - head injuries don't kill downhillers, but a fair number have become quadriplegics in the last decade or so.

  4. #4
    Don't Worry Be Happy
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    29
    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    I have been unable to find any scientific tests for the SIPS system - i suspect it is a decent idea without proof.
    Here you can read about the theory behind MIPS.

    MIPS | Setting a new standard


    Peace

  5. #5
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    take a look at this article about Kali

    Kali Protectives Using Technology to Improve Safety of Helmets | Cyclocross Magazine – Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

    I also have done a ton of research and cant find real world benefit to MIPS its 20 year old technology that suddenly has the marketing buzzwords some companies are after.

  6. #6
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    3,708
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Duderino View Post
    take a look at this article about Kali

    Kali Protectives Using Technology to Improve Safety of Helmets | Cyclocross Magazine – Cyclocross News, Races, Bikes, Photos, Videos

    I also have done a ton of research and cant find real world benefit to MIPS its 20 year old technology that suddenly has the marketing buzzwords some companies are after.
    So you link to an article about Kali's protection 'advances' that has no scientific proof of what they say yet blow off MIPS as marketing, even though they have actual tests showing the results
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  7. #7
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    I have never seen those MIPS tests.
    I have however read about crumple zone testing and energy dissipation.

  8. #8
    Don't Worry Be Happy
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    29

    Idea!

    Quote Originally Posted by El_Duderino View Post
    I have never seen those MIPS tests.
    ...
    MIPS | Research documentation
    MIPS | Test results that speak for themselves
    MIPS | Our scientists


    Peace.

  9. #9
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    Every link you sent is from the MIPS website ?
    Those are the people licensing MIPS to helmet company's

  10. #10
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    3,708
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Duderino View Post
    Every link you sent is from the MIPS website ?
    Those are the people licensing MIPS to helmet company's
    Those are at least quantitative tests.
    You've read about crumple zones, so someone says hey the way I use these two foams in a cone shapes works- I have no measurable test but trust me.

    Hmm up makes sense.
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  11. #11
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    That testing is brought to you by the people that sell MIPS.

    On the cone head Trust me and tons of other helmet manufactures that are using it.
    I say we agree to disagree
    My personal belief is if all these helmet companies are pushing better technology don't we all win?
    Last edited by El_Duderino; 02-15-2014 at 09:52 AM.

  12. #12
    No Stranger to danger....
    Reputation: Tone's's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    5,530
    Most helmets offer the same protection, if they have past the testing they all offer similar amounts of protection.
    Some are made more comfortable, better lining and straps, better peaks and shapes, lighter weights etc.
    I wore fox flux's for a while, but as soon as i found the 661 recon i never went back, i also have a great 661 full face, i couldnt recommend a better lid, light weight, well made, great ventilation just great lids.
    Find one that feels good, is light weight, has good straps and id recommend one that gives you some back of the head protection like the flux or the recon.
    Dont ever let the truth get in the way of a funny story....

  13. #13
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    I think the problem with helmets testing is it's all " pass fail " testing.
    I don't think we will ever see real A,B,C testing on helmets.

  14. #14
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    1
    If I'm not mistaken, isn't your hair similar to MIPS in that once you impact, your helmet shifts on the head, deflecting part of the impact?

    What is interesting is why helmet manufacturers up to now have taken them so long to use the MIPS technology?

  15. #15
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    3,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Tone's View Post
    Most helmets offer the same protection, if they have past the testing they all offer similar amounts of protection.
    Some are made more comfortable, better lining and straps, better peaks and shapes, lighter weights etc.
    I wore fox flux's for a while, but as soon as i found the 661 recon i never went back, i also have a great 661 full face, i couldnt recommend a better lid, light weight, well made, great ventilation just great lids.
    Find one that feels good, is light weight, has good straps and id recommend one that gives you some back of the head protection like the flux or the recon.
    Not true at all. Its a pass fail test, so all it tells you is that a helmet passes or fails. Helmet A can pass the test, but helmet B can also pass it and give you much better protect, but you wouldn't know that based on the test.

    At this point, the standard is old and needs to be updated. We have the tech to measure forces that are transferred to the head, why not mandate that type of testing so we the public know exactly what we're getting. No reason helmet testing couldn't be done just like the IIHS does car testing and grade based on the forces transferred to the occupant.
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  16. #16
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    3,708
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Duderino View Post
    That testing is brought to you by the people that sell MIPS.

    On the cone head Trust me and tons of other helmet manufactures that are using it.
    I say we agree to disagree
    My personal belief is if all these helmet companies are pushing better technology don't we all win?
    The testing may come from MIPS, but it would be pretty stupid to put out numbers that anyone can disprove, the test method isn't a secret.

    But again, where are any numbers on the cones other than trust me it works?
    13 Lenz Lunchbox punkass

  17. #17
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    Bicycle Helmet Liners: Foam and more

    These guys a second party talk about the energy dissipation of conehead.
    Last edited by El_Duderino; 02-15-2014 at 02:52 PM.

  18. #18
    Cow Clicker
    Reputation: wmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,349
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  19. #19
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    More from the Bicycle Helmet safety institute

    Update: Bicycling article misses the mark

  20. #20
    Cow Clicker
    Reputation: wmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    2,349
    Quote Originally Posted by El_Duderino View Post
    More from the Bicycle Helmet safety institute

    Update: Bicycling article misses the mark
    Thanks for the link. I had not seen that yet. I do agree, and was well aware of the marketing hype surrounding MIPS. I was really torn about spending so much on a helmet that May or may not actually do anything more than other helmets. The thing that pushed me over the edge was, there is no evidence that it is worse than other helmets. It is also a multi-impact helmet. Helmets get dropped, take hits on the trail, etc. Money isn't an issue, so, there wasn't really a reason not to buy it. These new designs look promising if they hold up to multi-impacts.
    No, YOU don't understand. You're making an ass of yourself for all of eternity.

  21. #21
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pharmaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    285
    I have had low impact strikes with the ground with a well fitting helmet and got grazes on my forehead from the helmet sliding on my head.

    I was also reading a govt testing paper on materials that makes it quite clear that EPS needs to deform and that cracking is a failure of the job to deform and didn't extend the impact time.

    I mention this because time and time again I read of people's justification for their helmet as saving their life - the evidence that the helmet is now in pieces after rcracking apart.

    In the stds tests done, there is deformation inside the helmet and no cracking - in that way I agree with poc , in that their helmets have greater structural integrity whereas the most expensive cycling helmets have the least, and pretty much by deliberate design ( high density eps allows for greater ventilation but a more brittle helmet)

  22. #22
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    I have had low impact strikes with the ground with a well fitting helmet and got grazes on my forehead from the helmet sliding on my head.

    I was also reading a govt testing paper on materials that makes it quite clear that EPS needs to deform and that cracking is a failure of the job to deform and didn't extend the impact time.

    I mention this because time and time again I read of people's justification for their helmet as saving their life - the evidence that the helmet is now in pieces after rcracking apart.

    In the stds tests done, there is deformation inside the helmet and no cracking - in that way I agree with poc , in that their helmets have greater structural integrity whereas the most expensive cycling helmets have the least, and pretty much by deliberate design ( high density eps allows for greater ventilation but a more brittle helmet)

    "( high density eps allows for greater ventilation but a more brittle helmet)"

    Here is we totally agree 100%

    Where I personally disagree is multi-impact hard shell helmets.
    What is multiple impact 2 hits? , 20 hits? , or 200 hits?
    Where does the energy from the impact go?

    Both the inside and the outside shell of a helmet when used with the proper density of EPS foam work together to dissipate energy.

    Like I said before when talking about crumple zones its the energy being absorbed while to zone is crumpling.
    That first article I posted talked about Low-density foam and its ability to absorb impact. Low density foam doesn't crack like high density EPS.

  23. #23
    mtbr member
    Reputation: pharmaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    285
    Where does the energy go?

    Well, if you jump on a foam mattress, it absorbs impact, yet when you get off, it returns to its previous state . My arse is currently cradled by a foam and when I stand up it returns to its previous shape.

    Helmets for American football are typical multi impact foam interiors - a lot less force to deal with than a cycling road accident , so dealing with low repeated impacts require a different strategy compared to the occasional severe force.

    Mind you safety is a funny thing - the most dangerous thing ever to happen to boxing, was the introduction of boxing gloves. Many many deaths and brain injuries since then because you can punch someone in the head without hurting yourself. Previous to gloves, punching an opponent in the head often broke your hand, so body punches was the nature of the sport.

    Same for American football - all that protection makes the impacts harder and more common, hence the horrific rates of long term brain injury in athletes .

  24. #24
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    193
    Quote Originally Posted by pharmaboy View Post
    Where does the energy go?

    Well, if you jump on a foam mattress, it absorbs impact, yet when you get off, it returns to its previous state . My arse is currently cradled by a foam and when I stand up it returns to its previous shape.

    Helmets for American football are typical multi impact foam interiors - a lot less force to deal with than a cycling road accident , so dealing with low repeated impacts require a different strategy compared to the occasional severe force.

    Mind you safety is a funny thing - the most dangerous thing ever to happen to boxing, was the introduction of boxing gloves. Many many deaths and brain injuries since then because you can punch someone in the head without hurting yourself. Previous to gloves, punching an opponent in the head often broke your hand, so body punches was the nature of the sport.

    Same for American football - all that protection makes the impacts harder and more common, hence the horrific rates of long term brain injury in athletes .
    When I sit down on a mattress the mattress compresses slowly. When I stand up it rebounds shape. What I slap a mattress with my hand. The mattress does not have time to absorb the impact and it feels hard to hit.

    This is all exactly why I want a low-density EPS helmet with that works in conjunction with the PC shell to dissipate energy so my brain doesn't smack the inside of my skull.
    Last edited by El_Duderino; 02-15-2014 at 07:46 PM.

  25. #25
    FBI tested, NSA approved!
    Reputation: Forster's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    1,161
    Let me preface this with my disclaimer. I left the pre-engineering (Mechanical Engineering) program after just one year so all my experience is first hand or second hand and somewhat anecdotal. I have fallen off a bike and motorcycle almost everyway possible and know several cyclist and motorcyclists who have been seriously injured. I have experience with helmets ranging from leather hairnets in the 80's to $6K flight helmets custom made to fit my melon.

    I think it's pretty well known that all helmets do two things for riders in crashes, increase the moment of impact a few milliseconds and disperse the point of contact. They do these things to a varying degree of success. As important (if not more important) is how you hit the ground. In 1988 I took a 60 mph leap off a brand new Harley and my helmet was completely unscathed because I rolled on impact (arm to shoulder to back to hips to legs...repeat). One of my friends was nearly blinded by a relatively minor crash because he landed forehead first with no helmet. My suggestion is to properly fit whatever helmet you wear and stay on the bike, tight to the bars, when you crash. If you go over the bars, tuck and hang on. Let the back of the helmet take the impact and roll with the punches. Most folks let go and reach for the ground. This flings the upper body and you're never strong enough to stop your fall. Falling from the side, let your body curve away from the fall and land knee, hip, side and shoulder. If you get hit by a car, you're as likely to sustain a concussion from the impact to your torso as you are from the impact to your head. Soldiers with no impact damage frequently sustain concussions from blast pressure waves hitting their bodies. I suspect football players are experiencing the same thing but no one is looking for it.

    Buy a helmet you will wear, fit it, replace it every time you crash and every couple of years (because PS foam breaks down over time).

Similar Threads

  1. BIG headed Helmets and Womens Helmets
    By NC-Biker in forum Apparel and Protection
    Replies: 28
    Last Post: 10-14-2012, 05:05 PM
  2. Who makes some quality cup and cone bearings?
    By What&son in forum Wheels and Tires
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-20-2012, 03:05 PM
  3. Opinions, bicycle helmets vs MX helmets
    By Scythe in forum Downhill - Freeride
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 07-13-2012, 08:41 AM
  4. Replies: 24
    Last Post: 07-22-2011, 05:56 AM
  5. How Many Helmets Do You Need?
    By fatcat in forum California - Socal
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-17-2011, 01:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •