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  1. #1
    -arschloch-
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    No armor = No ride

    What is the deal at parks and ski resorts is the US and Canada? Are you guys required to wear full body armor?

    This weekend one of the lift operators at a local place here in Germany told me that without full armor (chest, leg and arm protectors) I wasn't legally supposed to be riding the NS style stunt lines or the DH lines. Mountain-cross was OK though!?!? The guy was super cool about it. He said he just had to legally inform me of the house rules. He didn't say I had to beat it.

    I wonder if they say this sh!t because health insurance companies are starting to go after the parks to pay the medical-bills when people fawk themselves up?

    OR

    Are they doing this because there are too many idiots who can't judge their own abilities and try to ride way over their limits and get lawsuit happy when they eat sh!t and loose all their teeth?

    All that said, I saw the ambulance (from the outside ) four times on Sunday...

    So what's the scoop in N. America?

    FWIW, the courses were all pretty mickey mouse. Fun, but mickey mouse. I have done XC-races with sections that were both more dangerous and more technically demanding. So, I don't think full armor was really as necessary as a wee-bit of judgement.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

  2. #2
    V10 Freerider
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    We love to sue in the USA. Its never our fault. You should not have built a stunt that was over my head if you did not want me to ride it. and since there was no sign or guard posted that made sure I rode within my own boundries it must be YOUR FAULT.

    That is NOT my point of view but it does seem to be the view of our court system.

    If it doesn't fit you must aquit....
    The Super T you have is really a very good fork. I'd take that fork over a Fox 40 or a Boxer unless i was entering a fashon contest instead of a race

  3. #3
    New project, TBA shortly
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuffer
    What is the deal at parks and ski resorts is the US and Canada? Are you guys required to wear full body armor?
    ...
    So what's the scoop in N. America?
    Here in NY and NJ, they require a helmet. That's it. Half-shell ok. No other requirements on either armor or bike. The looooooong list of "sign this so you can't sue us" is meant to cover their asses, so they don't worry as much about requiring equipment.

    dante

  4. #4
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    Of all the places I've been in norcal, socal and canada (northstar, whistler, sandhill, big bear) they only require a helmet and strongly suggest body armour.

  5. #5
    Absurd
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    Quote Originally Posted by ender
    Of all the places I've been in norcal, socal and canada (northstar, whistler, sandhill, big bear) they only require a helmet and strongly suggest body armour.

    Yea, Northstar is helmet only. Hell, there's some guy riding around there this year with not only no armor, but no shirt!

  6. #6
    Former Noob Herder
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    i can understand there would be more liability with man-made stunts than natural trail stuff. It may also be simply the mountain looking out for peoples well being and not necessarily liability or or insurance related (imagine that....caring!). Its like seatbelt and helmet laws in some places, sometimes its just about looking out for public safety. Not everyone may need it, but it cant hurt either.

  7. #7
    M070R-M0U7H FR3NCHI3
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    Quote Originally Posted by MVRIDER
    Yea, Northstar is helmet only. Hell, there's some guy riding around there this year with not only no armor, but no shirt!
    ya...he's been riding without a shirt for the past few years???

    I noticed that there is another guy not that is mimicking him.

  8. #8
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    I wish there were armor rules here in Ontario. Instead, they just tear down the stunts. This year has been particularily bad. There have been a couple places where a change in ownership (or so I'm told) has resulted in the destruction of all man-made stunts. Public areas too. The thing is, I can't even blame the property owners for what they are doing, I'd be scared too. All you need is one kid who rides over his ability (and come on, we all did stupid **** when we were younger), and an overzealous set of parents who sue the landowner. Waivers are do-able, but a huge hassle, and I'm not sure if they are even legal for minors.

    Sorry for the rant, the situation here just really sucks right now.

  9. #9
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    maybe they could declare No Tresspassing, but only inforce it when someone gets hurt, saying they werent allowed to be there in the first place

  10. #10
    Absurd
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acadian
    ya...he's been riding without a shirt for the past few years???

    I noticed that there is another guy not that is mimicking him.

    Wow, how the hell could I have missed something like that all these years ?!?! Is the original guy the one with the mp3 player taped to his helmet on a Giant DH? That guy crackes me up. Riding around the place no-shirted and hitting jumps with blown tires!!

  11. #11
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    That would be awesome, bet it wouldn't hold up in court though. Kind of like setting booby traps at the cottage for would-be thieves over the winter. You can put up no trespassing signs, but if they walk right by it into a hidden trap underneath a window, you're still liable (my uncle actually inquired about this after a number of break-ins over the winter)...not sure about the US though...can't you legally shoot trespassers down there? If so, could you set up a system that automatically shoots trespassers (a tripwire or something by common break-in areas like windows)? Just curious.

    In all seriousness though, I would love to buy some land, and set up a system like the guys that run CPX or whatever it is called, but I'm absolutely terrified of liability...even with waivers, what do you do about minors (feel free to chime in), as I'm fairly certain their signature doesn't count for much. Do you need their parents there to sign in person...cause if you give the kid a waiver and s/he can't get permission, they'd probably just forge it (I know I would). It just sucks all the fun out of things. Am I being paranoid, or is this justifiable?

  12. #12
    V10 Freerider
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shibby
    That would be awesome, bet it wouldn't hold up in court though. Kind of like setting booby traps at the cottage for would-be thieves over the winter. You can put up no trespassing signs, but if they walk right by it into a hidden trap underneath a window, you're still liable (my uncle actually inquired about this after a number of break-ins over the winter)...not sure about the US though...can't you legally shoot trespassers down there? If so, could you set up a system that automatically shoots trespassers (a tripwire or something by common break-in areas like windows)? Just curious.

    In all seriousness though, I would love to buy some land, and set up a system like the guys that run CPX or whatever it is called, but I'm absolutely terrified of liability...even with waivers, what do you do about minors (feel free to chime in), as I'm fairly certain their signature doesn't count for much. Do you need their parents there to sign in person...cause if you give the kid a waiver and s/he can't get permission, they'd probably just forge it (I know I would). It just sucks all the fun out of things. Am I being paranoid, or is this justifiable?
    Even a frivolous lawsuit has to be defended. and even lawsuits that you win can cost $$$. That doesn't mean that it can't be done but you want to be well insured.
    The Super T you have is really a very good fork. I'd take that fork over a Fox 40 or a Boxer unless i was entering a fashon contest instead of a race

  13. #13
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    exactly...I wonder what kind of $$$ would be required for insurance, and by what factor it would multiply with every frivilous lawsuit/claim.

  14. #14
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    "Inherently Dangerous Activity"

    I'd bet DH mountainbiking has been declared an "Inherently Dangerous Activity", like skiing, and you can't sue the resort (unless they do something stupid like have "Beginner" trail markers lead off a 100 foot cliff...).

    The "Inherently Dangerous Activity" legal desigantion is the only thing that allows ski, resorts, skate parks, etc. to stay in business. It basically means you are resposible for your own injuries (assuming no neglegence on the part of the operator).

  15. #15
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    Saw a sign at Keystone Colorado last weekend that said 'Helmets Recommended'.

  16. #16
    WHAT HAS SCIENCE DONE!?!
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    Quote Originally Posted by zedro
    i can understand there would be more liability with man-made stunts than natural trail stuff. It may also be simply the mountain looking out for peoples well being and not necessarily liability or or insurance related (imagine that....caring!). Its like seatbelt and helmet laws in some places, sometimes its just about looking out for public safety. Not everyone may need it, but it cant hurt either.
    I totally agree with what you're saying, but I hate your analogy!

    OT a bit here.... Seatbelt laws are largely enforced for revenue generation. Just ask anyone who's been pulled over and given a seatbelt violation because they took the seatbelt off to get their wallet out to show the cop their ID. It happened to me (didn't get the ticket, but the cop insisted I wasn't wearing it), and I know of a few folks who've had it happen where they actually did get the ticket. (The road to hell is paved with good intentions.)

    And btw, the deal about putting up "no trespassing" signs to skirt liability is not a good idea. I asked an attorney friend about this once. I forget the legal term for it, but basically you'd be knowingly allowing people to disobey the sign and would be just as liable as if you had no sign at all.
    --Tod

    "I don't pretend to understand Brannigan's law; I merely enforce it."

  17. #17
    Former Noob Herder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skygrounder
    And btw, the deal about putting up "no trespassing" signs to skirt liability is not a good idea. I asked an attorney friend about this once. I forget the legal term for it, but basically you'd be knowingly allowing people to disobey the sign and would be just as liable as if you had no sign at all.
    well, once and awhile you could randomly nail someone for tresspassing.

    but look at it this way, if it was your property and you wanted NS stuff, there should be some way of avoiding the liability. Its not like setting a booby-trap where the point is to hurt someone. Of course i've heard of thieves suiing a homeowner because they tripped on a kids skateboard.....reason #3662621.2 why the US is going straight to hell...

  18. #18
    LT1
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    ...not an absolute requirement but...

    ...I wish more of my riding friends would wear it....

    So far, this years list injuries is a follows:
    - ruptured spleen - serious - would have been prevented with chest armor
    - seperate shoulder - not too serious, armor would have lessened the impact
    - trail rash #1 - even soft armor would have helped - not too serious but happened during a buddies time trial, ended his race
    - trail rash #2 - same as above, suprisingly, same race, different buddy
    - ruptured colon and 2 crushed vertabre - armor may have reduced the seriousness of the injuries

    As for me, I was wearing knee/shin armor, took a really hard pedal to the side of the knee, and at the same time some hyper-extension and spraining from a freak landing. The armor helped with the pedal impact but nothing short of a brace would have prevented the sprain.

    It's been a really bad year...

  19. #19
    airin' it out in the 951
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    ruptured colon....

    how do you do that?! And how do you prevent something stabbing a hole in your colon?

  20. #20
    Uhhhhh...
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitchenware
    Saw a sign at Keystone Colorado last weekend that said 'Helmets Recommended'.
    Wow i saw that same sign about a month ago. Everyone i saw was wearing helmets, some backwards.

    -TS
    Fayetteville, AR and N.W.A RePrEsEnT

  21. #21
    painfully ordinary
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    Quote Originally Posted by MVRIDER
    Yea, Northstar is helmet only. Hell, there's some guy riding around there this year with not only no armor, but no shirt!
    heres a pic of myself and my buddy "no shirt Kurt" at whistler.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    I got nuthin......

  22. #22
    T.Dot Represent
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    if ur stupid enought to ride without protection... you deserve to get hurt, dont go blamming others for ur stupidity! thats what i say when i see people on the trails i ride not wearing a helmet
    [SIZE=5]fiiiiiiiiiiiinchizzzzzzzzzzle[/SIZE]

  23. #23
    -arschloch-
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT1
    /SNIP/
    So far, this years list injuries is a follows:
    - ruptured spleen - serious - would have been prevented with chest armor
    - seperate shoulder - not too serious, armor would have lessened the impact
    - trail rash #1 - even soft armor would have helped - not too serious but happened during a buddies time trial, ended his race
    - trail rash #2 - same as above, suprisingly, same race, different buddy
    - ruptured colon and 2 crushed vertabre - armor may have reduced the seriousness of the injuries
    /SNIP/
    Racing is a whole different story! In a race you've gotta be going at the maximum possible speed for the obstacle or trail for the given conditions. In this situation you're often gonna be pushing your own limits. Anytime that you're realling pushing your limits hard, you prolly should be wearing armor.

    Anyway, it sounds like most places in N.America don't require you to wear armor. That's cool. At least there is a little freedom of choice and personal responsibility left.
    To air is human, to dig is divine.

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