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Thread: Helmets

  1. #1
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    Helmets

    I just found this interesting so I figured I would share with everyone. My brother who is working on his phd in physics said that for a homework assignment he had to calculate the force applied to ones head if from a moving position you fell over and hits his head it is enough force to be deadly.

    I figured this is as good a reason as any to wear a helmet at all times when biking.

  2. #2
    Tree Crasher
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    Yup. Your brain bounces around and gets bruised, sometimes with sneaky results.
    http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/...7119825&page=1
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  3. #3
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    Yeppers a good reason also not to wear a cheapo helmet as well.... thank you but my brain is worth way more to me than 29.95...... thats why I wear a fox! toughest bloody helmet I ever seen.... not to mention comfortable....

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    Quote Originally Posted by FroggyBiker
    Yeppers a good reason also not to wear a cheapo helmet as well.... thank you but my brain is worth way more to me than 29.95...... thats why I wear a fox! toughest bloody helmet I ever seen.... not to mention comfortable....
    spoken by someone who clearly knows nothing about helmets.

  5. #5
    InsaneObiker...dasss mee!
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    UMMM EXCUSE me Twitwell!????? what rock did you crawl out from... Fox has made the finest armour for how many years now????????? if I recolect corectly they started makin the stuff in 1974.... they made parts for prolly longer than you have even been alive!any body who values there skin more than $ wears Fox Doofus! dont tell me you prolly use that 661 garbage dont ya

  6. #6
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    just because you pay more for a helmet doesnt mean it is any safer than a $20 helmet from walmart. btw i wear a fox flux.

  7. #7
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    fox stuff is great value. i'd buy an Arai lid if they got in the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by b-kul
    just because you pay more for a helmet doesnt mean it is any safer than a $20 helmet from walmart. btw i wear a fox flux.
    You are kidding right? Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know anything about helmets. You can not compare a $20 Walmart helmet to a more expensive one, say a Fox Flux, it just does not work that way. You might have faith in that $20 helmet, 90% of the population wont. I wouldn't even wear a $20 helmet on a short commute, on paved surfaces. A Fox Flux will be much much safer than a $20 Walmart helmet, I can 100% guarantee that. Also, the fact that you wear a Flux indicates just that, if you thought a $20 helmet was just as safe, you'd be wearing it.
    Last edited by SV11; 05-13-2011 at 09:12 PM.

  9. #9
    InsaneObiker...dasss mee!
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    true there are some companies who will rip ya off.... but in general with Fox ( I also wear a flux) Giro, some of Bells stuff( they have gotten far worse over the years!) in general the more expensive helmets not only have foam protectin your head but a lot have fiberglass or other reinforcements such as nylon webbing carbon fiber etc ,in there better helmets....... if you look real close you'll find out your fox has fiberglass .....( you can see a lil piece here and there poking out) and for my head 100 bucks aint much

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    You are kidding right? Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know anything about helmets. You can not compare a $20 Walmart helmet to a more expensive one, say a Fox Flux, it just does not work that way. You might have faith in that $20 helmet, 90% of the population wont. I wouldn't even wear a $20 helmet on a short commute, on paved surfaces. A Fox Flux will be much much safer than a $20 Walmart helmet, I can 100% guarantee that. Also, the fact that you wear a Flux indicates just that, if you thought a $20 helmet was just as safe, you'd be wearing it.
    your right, clearly the csps doesnt mean anything $20 will buy you all the safety you need, after that your just buying fit, style, venting, weight, and a brand. all me owning a flux indicates is that i am a sucker for cool looking gear. it helps to know what you are talking about before you try to argue your point.

  11. #11
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    After looking at a bunch of XC helmets they all looked basically the same: a shaped block of foam with some sort of laminate covering. For a full face though, I would probab
    ly be more selective.

  12. #12
    Ninja Master Powers
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    You are kidding right? Sounds like you're the one who doesn't know anything about helmets. You can not compare a $20 Walmart helmet to a more expensive one, say a Fox Flux, it just does not work that way. You might have faith in that $20 helmet, 90% of the population wont. I wouldn't even wear a $20 helmet on a short commute, on paved surfaces. A Fox Flux will be much much safer than a $20 Walmart helmet, I can 100% guarantee that. Also, the fact that you wear a Flux indicates just that, if you thought a $20 helmet was just as safe, you'd be wearing it.
    Really a 100% guarantee? Do you want to make a little wager on your 100% guarantee?

    Because you're 100% WRONG…

    There is no difference in the type and quality of protection between the 20.00 Wally helmet and the 100.00 Flux ( I use a Flux and can say that it likely saved my life recently; didn't save me the worst concussion I've ever has though. But then it's not designed to)

    There might be a small difference in the area of your head that's covered but that's it.

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    I wouldn't have believed it but.....http://www.bhsi.org/testbycost.htm

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    LOL too obsurd!!

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    people come on share your points of view, but there is not reason to try and demean others for theirs. if you really believe your point is the better then provide the evidence telling people they know nothing isn't making your point any more valid. I hear both sides of the argument here guys and I just want to see more proof for both sides because this could be useful info for anyone trying to buy a new helmet. It's good that we are getting many points of view here, but insults make people less prone to listen to you in my opinion.

  16. #16
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    its not opinion when science backs it up...

  17. #17
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    In my opinion, any certified helmet is better than no helmet, the link to that helmet study was pretty interesting, definitely worth a read. But in the end its your head, wrap it in what makes you happy or makes you feel safe.
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  18. #18
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    Rickco- great website! I was wondering about my helmet. I just bought one from walmart for $20 or so. I have another specialized one but it's not comfy.

    IMO-a helmet is a helmet, you hit your head the helmet helps most of the way, until they make a bubble helmet, where your head won't get hurt, then I'll consider buy a $200 helmet. Anything over a hundo to me is just a waste
    60% of the time ......it works all the time

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    LOL too obsurd!!
    what's obsurd[sic]?

    Ohhh, your original post...I get it now
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=b-kul]your right, clearly the csps doesnt mean anything $20 will buy you all the safety you need, after that your just buying fit, style, venting, weight, and a brand.

    I fully concur.

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    just like motorcycle helmets..... if they all pass the DOT test then they are all the same safety wise... the more money you spend the better graphics/comfort you get.... same as bicycle helmets simple as that....

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    I wear a helmet because decent replacement brains donors are hard to come by and I imagine the transplant would be quite expensive.

    I don't ride MTB, only commuting, but I have a Fox Flux. I bought it because the store was clearing them out for $50.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highdelll
    what's obsurd[sic]?

    Ohhh, your original post...I get it now

    Ok, for all of you that are contradicting yourselves, how many of you have recommended a $20 walmart helmet to a friend or loved one?
    Answer = Absolutely bloody none, cut the arrogance guys, its sickening

    The funny thing is, in the helmet recommendation threads, no one recommends a $20 walmart helmet, I wonder why that is...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    Ok, for all of you that are contradicting yourselves, how many of you have recommended a $20 walmart helmet to a friend or loved one?
    Answer = Absolutely bloody none, cut the arrogance guys, its sickening
    I told two my friends that don't have money to spend on a fancy helmet that they could get a $20 helmet at Target or Wal-Mart.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickco
    I wouldn't have believed it but.....http://www.bhsi.org/testbycost.htm
    Makes sense to me - nearly all the impact protection of a bicycle helmet comes from the EPS foam which is likely to be of nearly the same formulation (density, thickness, strength, etc) for pretty much all helmets.

    I have two helmets that I count on to keep my skull/brain intact - a $20 Schwinn helmet from Wal-Mart (kept with a lamp mounted on it for night riding) and a $90 Giro Xen fabric as my primary helmet.

    Thing is, while my particular Wal-Mart helmet happens to fit me extremely well and be comfortable, I think it's a worthwhile assumption that the more expensive a helmet is, the more likely it is fit well and be comfortable. Impact tests don't rate comfort, ease of adjustment and how well a helmet sits and stays on a wearer's head. I've tried cheap helmets for my kids and they sucked for adjustment, comfort and wear. I ended up with a Fox Flux for one son and a Giro Hex for the other which they're each happy with. Maybe no difference over the cheap helmets in an impact test but definitely a big difference in real-world usability and protection.

    Anyway, you or a loved one can wear a cheap piece of plastic on your head or choose a nicely-crafted piece of performance equipment. Even if both work the same in a crash, there is something to be said for comfort, style and class, no?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    Ok, for all of you that are contradicting yourselves, how many of you have recommended a $20 walmart helmet to a friend or loved one?
    Answer = Absolutely bloody none, cut the arrogance guys, its sickening

    The funny thing is, in the helmet recommendation threads, no one recommends a $20 walmart helmet, I wonder why that is...
    Because they look like ****, often are heavier, have less venting, and don't offer as good a fit. You aren't paying for more/better protection with a more expensive helmet, you're paying for style and comfort while maintaining the same level of protection.

    And the only arrogant one in this thread is yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    Ok, for all of you that are contradicting yourselves, how many of you have recommended a $20 walmart helmet to a friend or loved one?
    Answer = Absolutely bloody none, cut the arrogance guys, its sickening
    I told two my friends that don't have money to spend on a fancy helmet that they could get a $20 helmet at Target or Wal-Mart.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    Ok, for all of you that are contradicting yourselves, how many of you have recommended a $20 walmart helmet to a friend or loved one?
    Answer = Absolutely bloody none, cut the arrogance guys, its sickening

    The funny thing is, in the helmet recommendation threads, no one recommends a $20 walmart helmet, I wonder why that is...
    because everyone wants to look cool. walmart helmets do not look cool. if someone says they are thinking about a walmart helmet no one says dont get that its not safe! i dont see how im contradicting myself, i didnt buy a flux because its safer, i bought it because it looked better.

  29. #29
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    Agreed, after you get past the basic safety standard its about the bells and whistles.
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    funny thing when I bought my helmet from LBS, I didn't ask if one helmet offered better protection than another, I looked for one that caught my eye in my price range....on sale for 39.99. I am gonna grill the guy at the bike shop for his opinion, just out of curiosity. Has anyone seen helmet manufacturers using safety as a selling point-as in-
    "buy the Brand X helmet, the safest helmet money can buy"
    just a thought.................

    Rick

  31. #31
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    I have not seen MFRs using 'safety' as their sales-pitch (i.e. :we're safer than 'X')
    For many it'd be shooting themselves in the foot...
    Giro, wouldn't say they are better than Bell - because Bell make Giro...
    Honestly... ahh I give up

  32. #32
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    I imagine no one recommends a Wallyworld helmet for the same reason they wouldnt recommend a Wallyworld bike.
    I'm a ******bag in real life so I dont have to be one on the interwebz.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rickco
    Has anyone seen helmet manufacturers using safety as a selling point-as in-
    "buy the Brand X helmet, the safest helmet money can buy"
    just a thought.................

    Rick
    Nope, and I don't think you ever will. Bikes can be a contact sport. Helmets help, but no helmet is going to save you 100% of the time. When I wrecked last year (on a paved greenway no less), my helmet saved the back of my skull from the steel guardrail, but didn't save my face from the 4X4 at the bottom of the rail, which did some fracture damage.

    If a helmet advertized itself as the safest out there, they'd have the bejeepers sued out of them by every family who had a kid get hurt while riding. A teary-eyed mother would tell the jury about selecting said helmet for little Jimmy based on how safe it claimed to be, but the helmet maker obviously lied because when Jimmy hucked off the top of the parking garage and landed on his head, he still died.

    Case closed, the family is awarded all of the Killa Helmet Co's assets by a sympathetic jury.

  34. #34
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    There is more at work here than just dropping a helmet on a flat surface... Granted, the CPSC test results look to be nearly identical for cheap and expensive helmets, and if that's good enough for you, then by all means, go for it. You aren't going to crash anyway, right?... So if you slow down an impact to a helmet with your head inside it, it gets interesting. First, when a cheap helmet is impacted, there are actually at least two impacts—the shell of the helmet hitting the ground, the foam of the helmet hitting the shell, and if it's a bad fit, your head hitting the foam. Each impact uses up some of the helmets protective abilities, so the fewer impacts you can get, the better. A well-constructed helmet using in-mold or whatever term the company uses, fuses the foam to the shell, eliminating one impact. Usually, a well-designed helmet (expensive) fits well, so your head isn't going to rattle around when it hits the ground. Finally, if features like dual-density foam or internal structures are used (again, expensive helmets) they can absorb and disperse impact forces better than just basic foam can. So a well-designed, well-constructed (more expensive) helmet actually does provide more safety in real-world crashes. Is it worth it? That's up to you. Most of what you pay for goes to engineering less foam (more ventilation) to be able to take the same abuse as a half-shell can, and then the construction of that design. Is it worth it? That's up to you.

  35. #35
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    your argument hinges on fit. price isnt indicative of fit. as long as you have a good fit everything is equal in terms of protection. not sure where you are getting a secondary impact of foam on the shell. every helmet ive seen has the foam at least glued to the shell.

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    Fit is s big part of it, you're right. And yes, you can find cheap helmets that fit. Glue is the point. Cheap helmets are glued, poorly, so that there are almost always random gaps between the foam and the helmet. A quality helmet has the foam shot into the shell, eliminating gaps and creating a tight bond. The impact between the foam and the shell is a result of the gaps created from cost-cutting construction procedures. And, again, everything is not equal as long as you have a good fitting helmet. Dual density foam and internal reinforcement structures distribute an impact over a greater surface area, which disperses the energy and is more effective in slowing your brain down inside your skull, which will hopefully prevent a concussion. I'm not saying that expensive helmets are fool-proof, but they do add degrees of safety. Depending on the circumstance of the impact, that may be the difference between riding away and getting a ride to the hospital.

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    New question here.

    same argument that goes on about DOT motorcycle helmets... if the helmet passed the same test wether $20 or $250 then ones as safe as the other..

    now i agree the $250 helmet will have better ventilation/paint/graphics/strap system etc. but it still doesnt protect any better than the $20 helmet...

    i also agree that it has to FIT CORRECTLY or it wont matter if its $5 or $500 if it doesnt fit right and you then its gonna hurt no matter what...

    do they have a standard test for bicycle helmets ??


    Quote Originally Posted by climbingrules
    There is more at work here than just dropping a helmet on a flat surface... Granted, the CPSC test results look to be nearly identical for cheap and expensive helmets, and if that's good enough for you, then by all means, go for it. You aren't going to crash anyway, right?... So if you slow down an impact to a helmet with your head inside it, it gets interesting. First, when a cheap helmet is impacted, there are actually at least two impacts—the shell of the helmet hitting the ground, the foam of the helmet hitting the shell, and if it's a bad fit, your head hitting the foam. Each impact uses up some of the helmets protective abilities, so the fewer impacts you can get, the better. A well-constructed helmet using in-mold or whatever term the company uses, fuses the foam to the shell, eliminating one impact. Usually, a well-designed helmet (expensive) fits well, so your head isn't going to rattle around when it hits the ground. Finally, if features like dual-density foam or internal structures are used (again, expensive helmets) they can absorb and disperse impact forces better than just basic foam can. So a well-designed, well-constructed (more expensive) helmet actually does provide more safety in real-world crashes. Is it worth it? That's up to you. Most of what you pay for goes to engineering less foam (more ventilation) to be able to take the same abuse as a half-shell can, and then the construction of that design. Is it worth it? That's up to you.

  38. #38
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    I don't think I buy a poorly fitted shell as a 'two-part' impact.
    All that layer is for is to protect the foam from abrasion and to look pretty
    It has VERY minor impact resistance/absorption.
    Honestly... ahh I give up

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    Quote Originally Posted by qkenuf4u
    now i agree the $250 helmet will have better ventilation/paint/graphics/strap system etc. but it still doesnt protect any better than the $20 helmet...

    i also agree that it has to FIT CORRECTLY or it wont matter if its $5 or $500 if it doesnt fit right and you then its gonna hurt no matter what...

    I disagree, bigtime and you don't have to be a genius to understand why, If you haven't by now, I'll tell you why.
    First of all, an expensive helmet will have research and development gone in it, better materials will be used in the construction of the helmet (which relates to safety) as apposed to a $20 helmet. It will also pass quality control, none of which apply to a walmart $20 helmet. The more expensive helmet will usually fit better and usually wont come apart in the packaging. I've literally first hand seen helmets in walmart that need to be sent back to the manufacturer because of a defect.
    If walmart sells the helmet for $20, they probably buy it for $5-8. seriously how much research and development and quality control do you expect to see in a $5 helmet, which all relates to safety as well?

    When it comes to standards, please don't assume that just because it has that sticker that the helmet is deemed safe. Here in Australia, its kind of screwed up. An expensive well put together helmet did not pass because of the most ridiculous pathetic reason, while i see helmets in walmart that have fallen apart in the packaging, sporting the standards sticker, what a joke.

    I hate to say it, but all you guys know I'm right, otherwise you wouldn't be wearing flux's or expensive helmets as apposed to $20 walmart helmets.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    I hate to say it, but all you guys know I'm right, otherwise you wouldn't be wearing flux's or expensive helmets as apposed to $20 walmart helmets.
    Dude, you're arguing against the findings of a test conducted by the "Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute". But I guess you've done your own experiments, and know more about the issue than they do.



  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11
    I hate to say it, but all you guys know I'm right, otherwise you wouldn't be wearing flux's or expensive helmets as apposed to $20 walmart helmets.
    Self proclaimed expert?

    I wear my Fox and Giro because they fit me better, not because they provide more protection than a cheapo walmart Bell.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by qkenuf4u
    same argument that goes on about DOT motorcycle helmets... if the helmet passed the same test wether $20 or $250 then ones as safe as the other..

    now i agree the $250 helmet will have better ventilation/paint/graphics/strap system etc. but it still doesnt protect any better than the $20 helmet...
    Here in the USA, the DOT certification of motorcycle helmets is a joke. I've seen numerous helmets that were complete garbage sporting a DOT certification sticker. Good helmets like an Arai are more like $400 and they're Snell certified - a far more rigorous testing standard. There are trade-offs though - in a lesser impact where a cheap non-Snell helmet might provide adequate protection, a Snell helmet can result in a mild concussion being that it's designed to provide optimal protect in severe impacts. Also, the heavier weight of a "better" helmet can contribute to neck injuries plus what's the point of protecting the head of a motorcycle rider who has sustained multiple fatal injuries elsewhere in an extreme crash? Personally, back in the day, I wore Arai helmets for their quality and the comfort of knowing that my head and face would like nice my casket.

    CPSC certified bicycle helmets are a drastically different story. CPSC certification provides a good test and expensive bicycle helmets are designed for the same crashes as cheap helmets.
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  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SV11

    I hate to say it, but all you guys know I'm right, otherwise you wouldn't be wearing flux's or expensive helmets as apposed to $20 walmart helmets.
    everyone has been very clear why they wear a higher end helmet, it looks better, its lighter, it has a better strap system, it offers a better fit, and it has desirable branding. no one has said they got helmet x because it is safer than helmet y. its apparent you have no idea you know what you are talking about so why dont you shut your mouth and do a little research.

  44. #44
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    i love my $20 helmet from wal-mart. it fits, the strap on it could be a little better, not worth a $100 though. I like the looks of it, it keeps my head cool, and it's comfortable enough to wear for an entire day of riding. So for all you snobby people who won't wear one, should try it out and you might be wondering why the F*** did I just spend $150 on this when I could have got one for $20......oh wait nevermind that last statement bc they are probably the people who wear so much friggin padding on their bike they look like they are in the bomb squad......
    60% of the time ......it works all the time

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Credible
    i love my $20 helmet from wal-mart. it fits, the strap on it could be a little better, not worth a $100 though. I like the looks of it, it keeps my head cool, and it's comfortable enough to wear for an entire day of riding. So for all you snobby people who won't wear one, should try it out and you might be wondering why the F*** did I just spend $150 on this when I could have got one for $20......oh wait nevermind that last statement bc they are probably the people who wear so much friggin padding on their bike they look like they are in the bomb squad......
    Have you ever gone down a hill that wasn't paved?

  46. #46
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    The bottom line is that Wallmart (as much as I detest the business itself) does provide a service by selling cheap helmets. If having a $20.00 helmet available gets your average Walmart shopper to wear a helmet; likely for the first time in their life, then that's great. Those people would most likely never pay $100.00 + for a helmet and would probably go without but for $20.00 what the heck, might as well try wearing one. Wearing a $20.00 helmet has got to be safer than no helmet at all.

  47. #47
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    Have you ever gone down a hill that wasn't paved?
    I take it you are one of the pansies that wear all the gear..I can understand wearing all that crap if you ride and your are surrounded by boulders and rocks all over but I have seen some videos on here the people wearing that stuff are on double track and surrounded by trees and pine needles. I think that is overkill. I ride because it's a thrill!

    Bones heal and chicks dig scars!
    60% of the time ......it works all the time

  48. #48
    meow meow
    Reputation: b-kul's Avatar
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    i do agree it seems over the top to me when i see people wearing shin pads and elbow pads on smooth single track but it is their body. i sure dont think any less of them or their riding.

  49. #49
    all downhill from here
    Reputation: schralpy's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justin Credible
    I take it you are one of the pansies that wear all the gear..I can understand wearing all that crap if you ride and your are surrounded by boulders and rocks all over but I have seen some videos on here the people wearing that stuff are on double track and surrounded by trees and pine needles. I think that is overkill. I ride because it's a thrill!

    Bones heal and chicks dig scars!
    Pansy? I mostly ride dh. I like the way my body and face look now.

  50. #50
    mtbr member
    Reputation: Justin Credible's Avatar
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    May 2011
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    I'm just saying a helmet is a helmet! there are a few minor things different with each one. Yeah I agree the $150 one are nicer looking than a $20 one but some people have bills and families. Me personally I would rather spend $20 on a helmet and buy my son or daughter something nice....just sayin
    60% of the time ......it works all the time

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