Baggies or Lycra

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  • 10-24-2010
    Copes_X3
    Baggies or Lycra
    As we all probably know there has long been talk about the right image for our sport. We see the DH/4X scene follow the way of MX and the XC/Enduro crowd follow the way of the Roadies.

    With the advancement of baggy trail kit in both performance, through chamois and padded liners, and style through understated designs and earthy pastel colour. Are we not seeing the direction our sport should take through an amalgamation of our two greatest influences.

    My question to you all is...

    How do you feel about the image of our sport?
    Do we all have a responsibility to promote the "coolness" of our sport?
    What do you ride and what do you wear when riding?
    and
    Would you change for the advancement of our sport? eg burn that lycra, ditch that hyper-active MX gear.
  • 10-24-2010
    komekomegaijin
    Personally, promoting the sport is the last thing I think of when choosing what to wear riding. It's a purely pragmatic question for me and I'll wear what I personally will feel physically most comfortable in. Looks doesn't really factor into the equation for me.
    I do like the old cliche my Dad drummed into me as kid though, "variety is the spice of life". I like to have options. I want to be able to chose from earthy tones or fluro pink and orange if the mood struck me!

    As for the image of the sport I've never been into the "hardcore" image some elements of mountain biking took on, as well as a lot of the aggressive graphics and style of products nowadays. While I consider myself first and foremost a "mountain biker" I wonder if the aggressive elements of the sport that I'm not so interested in have been part of the cause of why I now consider myself more of a "cyclist" than "mountain biker"?

    I think the best things promotion of the sport are to just to do it, enjoy it, spread the word and most of all, don't do anything to give it a bad name. I don't think what we wear riding is that much of an issue.
  • 10-24-2010
    mike_d_1583
    I just try to wear what feels comfortable with the current weather conditions. I focus on my riding skills first, fasion is rarely thought of. I've raced XC wearing a wife beater and New Balance shoes, I mean who cares? All that skin tight crap makes me laugh, it doesn't make you faster, what makes you faster is experience. Don't forget to wear a helmet on the trails too, or you'll look pretty stupid in a coma.
  • 10-24-2010
    jason333
    I wear padded shorts under regular shorts. I don't think the world is ready for my figure.

    The only downside is my back waste catching the front of my seat from time to time.


    If I HAD to choose one, I would probably do the padded shorts for comfort reasons.

    I am still pretty new so no way the seat of my pants will hit the rear tire and require the sturdy mtn bike shorts.

    Function > form for me :)
  • 10-24-2010
    Blksocks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mike_d_1583
    I just try to wear what feels comfortable with the current weather conditions. I focus on my riding skills first, fasion is rarely thought of. I've raced XC wearing a wife beater and New Balance shoes, I mean who cares? All that skin tight crap makes me laugh, it doesn't make you faster, what makes you faster is experience. Don't forget to wear a helmet on the trails too, or you'll look pretty stupid in a coma.

    Same here. beaters, hanes, fruit of the loom shirts... who cares. Baggie comfortable shorts... 10x better than that tight crap that makes you look funny. I ran into guys on forest roads wearing tight crap and that was pretty hilarious. forest roads + tight bibs = you're over doing it.

    Btw, reebok shoes and flat pedals = smooth riding. :thumbsup:
  • 10-24-2010
    Repack Rider
    Lycra bibs under cargo shorts held up with suspenders to keep the crotch from hanging up on the saddle. Jersey over suspenders.

    Why would anyone care whether the way they dressed affected the "image" of the sport? Who, exactly is looking?
  • 10-24-2010
    sean salach
    Depends on the situation I'm riding in.

    Commuting to work or running errands: Baggies over lycra
    XC: lycra
    Trials or street: Baggies
    Bar: Baggies, maybe over lycra
    Touring: Baggies over lycra
  • 10-24-2010
    ZigaK
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Blksocks
    Same here. beaters, hanes, fruit of the loom shirts... who cares. Baggie comfortable shorts... 10x better than that tight crap that makes you look funny. I ran into guys on forest roads wearing tight crap and that was pretty hilarious. forest roads + tight bibs = you're over doing it.

    Btw, reebok shoes and flat pedals = smooth riding. :thumbsup:

    first you start by saying who cares what you wear, and in the next sentence you diss the tight crap somebody else is wearing ...
    go figure
  • 10-24-2010
    mike_d_1583
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by jason333
    The only downside is my back waste catching the front of my seat from time to time.

    How far forward to you lean in order for your back waist to hit the front of your saddle. Or did you mean waste as in poop?:D
  • 10-24-2010
    Circlip
    Copy of text below from another post of mine on another similar thread (probably thread number one billion of the one zillion lycra vs. baggies threads that have been started on MTBR)

    -------------------------------

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": I don't want to frighten you, but there's a guy over with his bike near the fence there wearing spandex shorts.

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": Really? No way!

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": Whatever you do, don't look to your left.

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": Crap, I think I just looked to my left!

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": OK, you looked to your left, but tell me now and tell me truthfully 'cause this is important. Did you in any way look in the direction of the guy's crotch?

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": Umm...Uhhh... No, I don't think so.

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": You don't sound convincing. I'm going to give you one more chance to answer that question again. Did you, or did you not look in the direction of the guy's crotch?

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": No!!! (whimpering)

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": It didn't even come into your field of view, not even when you looked over at him standing by his bike?

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": Well, I guess it did just a little. But just in the overall field of view, ya know.

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": I knew it!

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": Did you see it too? You were the one who saw him first.

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": No, I'm a real man. My brain selectively filters out any visual representations of other mens' crotches and penises. Once it passes through my visual cortex, all I see is a fuzzy blanked out area where the crotch used to be.

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": That's just weird. I don't believe you.

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": Don't sweat it. Not every man can be as real of a man as I am. That would be an unreasonable standard to expect you to match up to.

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": Shucks, I feel so dirty now. Do you think anyone else thinks that I may have seen the guy's crotch? That would be bad.

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": It's OK, you'll get over it. For now though, would you mind standing a few feet away from me? It would be better if it didn't appear like I am am hanging out with a guy who looked at another guy's crotch.

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": Geez, that's harsh.

    Insecure Rider/Man "A": Just do me a favour and don't stand at any of the urinals beside me in the washroom anymore, OK?

    Insecure Rider/Man "B": OK (snobbing / sniffling)
  • 10-24-2010
    mikeb
    baggies over lycra every time and i don't give a rat's hindquarters about what anybody thinks...
  • 10-24-2010
    anotherguy
    Sequined banana hammock. You really don't want to be behind me on the trails.
  • 10-24-2010
    taefoto
    Just go on one long ride with a good bib and your life will be changed. Do the same ride with a good bib and some chamois cream and you'll be hesitant to ever ride a bike without a bib ever again.

    The only time I'll ever put anything over my bib is if I have to do non-bikey stuff (cycling date to the museum and lunch) or if I expect to do some falling and don't want to mess up my bibs (downhill day at the ski hill or some extra technical riding).
  • 10-24-2010
    Blksocks
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by ZigaK
    first you start by saying who cares what you wear, and in the next sentence you diss the tight crap somebody else is wearing ...
    go figure


    Yea, I saw that too but didn't really care to correct it because no matter what some runt will find something else and complain.

    :thumbsup:
  • 10-24-2010
    lamb
    If we admit it or not, we all care about fashion- I think we just get hung up on the word "fashion". You need to think of fashion as your style, and WE all have that. The fellas that wear the wife beaters, that is your fashion/style.The guys that wear lycra, that is your style.Both are making a statement to other people, that is how we define ourselves. I understand that people dont care about fashion in the sense of what is current and trendy, but we all do have our own style. I think as far as promoting the sport, I believe many marketing depts probably have been pushing the baggy/street style that we are seeing so much of for the simple reason that they want to appeal to as many folks as possible. The marketing machine also needs younger people to replenish you geezers that are starting to retire to the rail trails.

    I think we will always have variety and will not see an end to the lycra. Why would we, it has been tried and tested for so long. I wear both baggies or lycra depending on what I am doing. I would bet that the majority of cyclists are that way, especially if you ride the road as well. Look how the marketing machine is splitting up the mtb category now- xc, trail, AM, DH, FR. They want you to know that you need several bikes, and in reality you probably do if you want to get the most out of your experience. This happens in everything- making more categories and choices to increase sales. I used to whitewater kayak, and most boaters I knew had a creek boat, playboat, and possibly a river runner. Most of what we see going on is marketing, but I myself dont mind cause it is fun to have choices and it keeps the sport fresh.
  • 10-24-2010
    bsieb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Repack Rider
    Lycra bibs under cargo shorts held up with suspenders to keep the crotch from hanging up on the saddle. Jersey over suspenders.

    Why would anyone care whether the way they dressed affected the "image" of the sport? Who, exactly is looking?

    I like this, might give it a try RR. I've had trouble in the past with a suspender letting loose when I bend over and really hammer. I got a pair at the Carhart store a while back that have sharky looking jaws and are huge, figure they might work. I rode bib tights over bib shorts a few times and didn't like the pressure on my shoulders, but I guess the suspenders are adjustable.

    I guess I'm sensitive about looking old and frumpy, to be honest. But what the hell, that leads to dying your hair and I ain't playin that gig. :D
  • 10-24-2010
    GotoDengo
    Padded lycra boxer briefs. After spending a million dollars on various padded baggies/lycra, both short and log, I picked up a pair of padded briefs at REI. Much better padding than more expensive "dedicated" biking gear. A few pair at $25 and I now wear whatever I want... mostly board shorts.
  • 10-24-2010
    TR
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by GotoDengo
    A few pair at $25 and I now wear whatever I want... mostly board shorts.

    Which will be awesome!!!!
    When you are riding to the beach for a swim or surf. :D
  • 10-24-2010
    GotoDengo
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TR
    Which will be awesome!!!!
    When you are riding to the beach for a swim or surf. :D

    Well, they're Fox board shorts, which I guess makes me cool :cornut: No seam in crotch, which is comfy, cheaper than MTB baggies, and I can wear them as normal shorts without looking like I dumped in my pants :) . Nice sealed pockets, too -- what's the point of open pockets on so many mountain baggies?
  • 10-24-2010
    rzozaya1969
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Copes_X3
    As we all probably know there has long been talk about the right image for our sport. We see the DH/4X scene follow the way of MX and the XC/Enduro crowd follow the way of the Roadies.

    With the advancement of baggy trail kit in both performance, through chamois and padded liners, and style through understated designs and earthy pastel colour. Are we not seeing the direction our sport should take through an amalgamation of our two greatest influences.

    My question to you all is...

    How do you feel about the image of our sport?
    Do we all have a responsibility to promote the "coolness" of our sport?
    What do you ride and what do you wear when riding?
    and
    Would you change for the advancement of our sport? eg burn that lycra, ditch that hyper-active MX gear.

    Personally, I don't care what people feel of how I look when riding, I pretty much think that our attitude is more important to promote the sport than how we look like. I don't think advancement means that I must wear something because I must. If I like how something fits/feels, then I'm up for it, but not just because it's the 'in' or the fashionable, or the accepted look garment.

    I wear swimming trunks and feel confortable in them, I've tried lycras and I feel like I'm wearing diapers, but some people really like lycras, so each must choose whatever feels confortable for them.

    I don't feel responsible that I must wear something special (unless you mean helmet, which is a must wear, but what I wear for helmet, that's my choice).
  • 10-25-2010
    JonathanGennick
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Repack Rider
    Why would anyone care whether the way they dressed affected the "image" of the sport? Who, exactly is looking?

    One year our bike club rode in the local, 4th of July parade. About half-way through the parade I looked around and realized that everyone but me was clad in spandex and a tight-fitting, yellow-bumblebee-color jersey. Picture it: a bunch of middle-aged adults bulging in the wrong places all wearing spandex. It was actually an awful sight. All I could think was that we surely wouldn't be swarmed with kids wanting to join the sport and buy into *that* image.
  • 10-25-2010
    Sid Nitzerglobin
    The most important thing is to wear whatever works for you in current conditions. Some guys proclaim that their tighty whities, duck canvas work pants, cotton tee shirt and army surplus combat boots are the only way to go, others are insistent that unless you're wearing skin tight team kits and $450 shoes you're doing it wrong. Trying to decide on some monolithic uniform guidelines for what people should wear when MTBing does more to hurt the image I would have of the sport than help it IMO. Makes it appear like much more of a snobbish group think clique like the stereotype of stuck up roadies.

    .02

    For me it's baggies over bibs until it hits >85 or 90 F w/ high humidity then I just wear the bibs. On top it's going to be either one of my understated, pretty much monochromatic MTB jerseys or a tech tee.
  • 10-25-2010
    RIS
    I wear lycra, to make other men feel inadequate. :D
  • 10-25-2010
    marzjennings
    Lycra bibs almost every ride as I don't want to be a slow arse baggie rider.
  • 10-25-2010
    MrOldLude
    I only ride mtb's right now, so I go baggy. Also, I'm pretty slow.
  • 10-25-2010
    indianadave
    Circlip... That cracked me up.
    Me... I've got one pair of padded baggies. I wear them on most rides. If they're dirty, I'll wear some jean shorts or cargo shorts. I will admit that I'm loking at other options, because the baggies have hooked my seat while trying to get off the bike a coupel times, which resulted in some very ungracefull dismounting.
    I'm a skinny guy though, so refuse to where skin-tight lycra stuff that'll just make me look skinnier. I do have a little self image to protect. LOL
    I've got some cheap "wicking" tee shirts I can choose from. None of which really match or coordinate with my shorts.
    I do plan on trying some padded lycra shorts, or maybe those padded boxer-briefs mentioned above to wear under regular shorts.
    I follow function over form.
  • 10-25-2010
    newnan3
    I wear baggies over my lycra but if I raced I wouldnt hesitate to just wear tights.

    Sometimes on tough climbs I can feel my shorts rubbing the tops of my legs giving me resistance. At those times I usually wish I was wearing only lycra.
  • 10-25-2010
    mikeb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RIS
    I wear lycra, to make other men feel inadequate. :D

    LOL
  • 10-25-2010
    Rod
    lycra only.... yep i'm one of those guys
  • 10-25-2010
    carverboy
    Baggies for shorter rides Lycra for the all day pain fest rides with my whippet xc friends.
    To tell the truth the lycra feels a hell of a lot better. but I wear the baggies on the shorter rides so I dont get looks from the civilians at gas staions, sub shop, grocery etc.
  • 10-25-2010
    charging_rhinos
    baggies 100%. gotta let the boys breathe.
  • 10-25-2010
    scoutcat
    stoopid thread
  • 10-25-2010
    Berkeley Mike
    Lycra
    Road or mtb.
  • 10-26-2010
    womble
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by scoutcat
    stoopid thread

    But oh so original.
  • 10-26-2010
    AndrwSwitch
    I was doing lycra only for a while. Just got used to it - lotta road miles. Lately, I'm wearing baggies over my shorts again. I'm in the Pacific Northwest, and my rear wheel tends to throw mud at my ass pretty often. MTB shorts keep me just that little bit cleaner and drier.

    Of course on race day, it's back to lycra only. This season, it'll even match (OMG!) I think it's funny how freaked out people get about this topic. When laundry conspires against me the right way, I sometimes find myself out on my road bike in flapping MTB shorts, and I still have a couple of loose-fitting jerseys kicking around for really hot weather or a slightly more "stealth" look.
  • 10-26-2010
    Copes_X3
    This thread was NOT intended as a "Baggies vs Lycra" arguement. It was intended to generate discussion on the topic of the image of MTBing and how what we wear influences it.
    A few people have done just that. Others have stated what they wear and why. Some have addressed the topic by telling us 'stories' from their experiences. Others lack the cognitive capacity to even grasp the crux of the discussion, instead resorting to degrading the thread and inturn highlighting their ineptitude for all to see.

    MTB is a burgeoning sport and thus requires nurturing and promotion. A few replies have stated "why should we care how we look? Who's looking anyway?" And to that I say thats the problem, no one is watching they don't even know we exist. I am in no way affiliated with the industry and have no invested interests, other than seeing the sport I love grow and attract new/young riders to the sport.
    I don't have the answers, so the next best thing I can do is get people to think about "the big picture" cos maybe someone does.
  • 10-26-2010
    Trail Ninja
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Copes_X3
    MTB is a burgeoning sport and thus requires nurturing and promotion. A few replies have stated "why should we care how we look? Who's looking anyway?" And to that I say thats the problem, no one is watching they don't even know we exist. I am in no way affiliated with the industry and have no invested interests, other than seeing the sport I love grow and attract new/young riders to the sport.
    I don't have the answers, so the next best thing I can do is get people to think about "the big picture" cos maybe someone does.

    I'm not a mountain biking ambassador. I'm a mountain bike rider. I've been participating in this burgeoning sport for 45 years now.

    I don't care if new people are attracted to the "sport". I kind of like how uncrowded my trails are.

    I'm happy with the fact that no one watches or knows I exist. This allows me to do what I want without anyone bothering me.

    I ride an ugly unpopular bike that's scratched and dented and I wear t-shirts & track pants. In the summer, I cut the sleeves and legs off, and in the fall I buy a new shirt & pair of track pants.

    I ride because I like it.
  • 10-26-2010
    womble
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Copes_X3

    MTB is a burgeoning sport and thus requires nurturing and promotion. A few replies have stated "why should we care how we look? Who's looking anyway?" And to that I say thats the problem, no one is watching they don't even know we exist. I am in no way affiliated with the industry and have no invested interests, other than seeing the sport I love grow and attract new/young riders to the sport.
    I don't have the answers, so the next best thing I can do is get people to think about "the big picture" cos maybe someone does.

    As has already been pointed out, do you really think our choice of clothing is going to make favourable or unfavourable impressions on non-riders? Face it, we're riding *bicycles*, which most adults regard as childrens' toys.

    Clothing is not the big picture- it's an incredibly minor one. Expecting clothing to be a major criteria for our image is like expecting male competition ice skaters to be incredibly camp because they wear skintight clothing.

    If anything is going to influence the perception of mountain bikers, it's the way we interact with others on the trails.
  • 10-26-2010
    qreeek
    Because some of the roadie-suits have really, REALLY, flashy colors the hikers often get more scared of those than the guy bombing in baggies.

    If anything should be done to promote the sport it would be to stop riding in frigging groups of 10+. Wind drafting is for roadies...

    I often encounter those giant groups of MTB'ers coming towards me, and sometimes there are hikers/dogwalkers on the trail too. They get seriously scared when a train like that is pumping past. Regardless of what they wear.
  • 10-26-2010
    bsieb
    Shame on you
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Trail Ninja
    I'm not a mountain biking ambassador. I'm a mountain bike rider. I've been participating in this burgeoning sport for 45 years now.

    I don't care if new people are attracted to the "sport". I kind of like how uncrowded my trails are.

    I'm happy with the fact that no one watches or knows I exist. This allows me to do what I want without anyone bothering me.

    I ride an ugly unpopular bike that's scratched and dented and I wear t-shirts & track pants. In the summer, I cut the sleeves and legs off, and in the fall I buy a new shirt & pair of track pants.

    I ride because I like it.

    talk like that could scatter the flock... and that will affect marketing. Then we won't have this wonderful forum and will only be able to ride unknown bikes while wearing unknown clothes in unknown places. Even rides won't really exist any more because they can't be posted. How will we circle jerk, for instance?

    ;)
  • 10-26-2010
    Circlip
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Copes_X3
    This thread was NOT intended as a "Baggies vs Lycra" arguement. It was intended to generate discussion on the topic of the image of MTBing and how what we wear influences it.
    I don't have the answers, so the next best thing I can do is get people to think about "the big picture" cos maybe someone does.

    Your posts are inconsistent with your signature (substitute "Lycra, baggies - who cares just RIDE!")
  • 10-26-2010
    AndrwSwitch
    I came to the conclusion a long time ago that if I bow to utility in any way in how I dress to ride my bike, I end up looking dorky. If I hop on my old road bike to go to school, I still wear gloves and a helmet and either roll up my cuffs or use those dorky velcro things. If I wear shorts, I'm still in a dorky-looking position. And that's before even getting into wearing a blinker and a red and yellow messenger bag.

    I think about the only way riding bikes looks anything but dorky is when someone makes it look like a sport and makes it look easy. Sort of a self-contradictory state. I think most of the time, though, the pros manage not to look like dorks because it's very clear that they're doing something competitive. When a mountain biker washes out and falls down, though, it doesn't matter if he's Todd Wells. He still looks like a dork. Lance Armstrong looks like a dork on his time trial bike. Andy Schleck looked like a total Fred when he dropped his chain, whether or not he was at the front of what many consider to be the world's hardest sporting event, and on top of an extremely difficult pass.

    I think that in the context of the Olympics, the snowboarders actually look kind of dorky in their baggy, street-inspired uniforms when they're surrounded by people who look like they're trying. On a ski hill, the ski team kids look dorky in speed suits, and even more dorky if they wear shorts over them.

    Heck, runners look dorky. They bob. They're covered in sweat. Sometimes they have those silly belt things with all the little bottles. Weight lifters look dorky. Seeing pro wrestlers warm up, I thought they looked dorky. Singers and actors warming up are unbelievably dorky. Let's face it - visibly working hard at something makes you look like a dork. So does looking like you're trying not to look like you're working hard at something.

    I think that the cool kids are the ones who manage not to work hard at anything, and usually that ends right around 12th grade, and the ones who manage to get the people around them invested in the things they work hard at, and I'd say that most of the famous athletes, and many famous non-athletes, are in that group.

    I'd say about the best things we can do for our sport's image are not to poach trails (and get caught, anyway,) to get over "on your left" and just say "hi," and generally not ride like ******s. If someone wants to call me on the lycra shorts, and I'm sure it happens to all of us who own a few pairs, I just shrug and say that fifty miles later, I'm still comfortable on the bike.
  • 10-26-2010
    Trail Ninja
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by bsieb
    talk like that could scatter the flock... and that will affect marketing. Then we won't have this wonderful forum and will only be able to ride unknown bikes while wearing unknown clothes in unknown places. Even rides won't really exist any more because they can't be posted. How will we circle jerk, for instance?

    ;)

    Yeah, you're right. From now on, I'm going to spend my Saturdays going door to door spreading the gospel of Mountain Biking.

    I'm sure "someone else" will build those trails.:D
  • 10-26-2010
    qreeek
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch
    Andy Schleck looked like a total Fred when he dropped his chain, whether or not he was at the front of what many consider to be the world's hardest sporting event, and on top of an extremely difficult pass.

    No amount of pro'ness can counter the dorky look of a skinny guy in lycra fiddling with his chain while he is losing a 3week race. Andy needs to learn how to wrench ;)
  • 10-26-2010
    AndrwSwitch
    Somehow, though, Lance Armstrong finishing the Leadville 100 on a bare rim is kind of badass.
  • 10-26-2010
    Ol' Dirty Biker
    Baggie Lycra! Order 2x sizes big!
  • 10-26-2010
    Circlip
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AndrwSwitch
    Somehow, though, Lance Armstrong finishing the Leadville 100 on a bare rim is kind of badass.

    Pansy ass is more like it. What's with pros that can't fix a bike on the road or trail any more? :madman: Dude has a huge lead, but decides he'd rather ride on a bare rim for miles instead of taking the 2 minutes to fix it. Lame.

    Was it even a bare rim at all, or just a tire nearly out of air?
  • 10-26-2010
    womble
    Or baggy gimp suits for added crash protection

  • 10-29-2010
    RIS
    I've never been able to deposit "cool" into my checking account.
  • 10-30-2010
    bsieb
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Repack Rider
    Lycra bibs under cargo shorts held up with suspenders to keep the crotch from hanging up on the saddle. Jersey over suspenders.

    Why would anyone care whether the way they dressed affected the "image" of the sport? Who, exactly is looking?

    This works well, thanks! More suited for cooler weather but no problem with the shorts getting too low and catching the saddle nose. The burly Carhartt suspenders I used held fine. Thinking about cutting down a pair of bib overalls to wear over the shorts for trail work. Looking for a pair with elastic in the back. :thumbsup: