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  1. #1
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    Ankle/shin protection from dogs?

    Dog bite ruined my summer 2011 riding. (Dog bit me, not vice versa.)

    Please forward info if you've seen suitable ankle/shin protection.

    Yes, since the bite I Velcro'd bear-spec pepper spray to the top tube.

    Thanks!
    jimbo

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  2. #2
    DynoDon
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    Pepper spray can kill a dog, its not the dogs fault, its the owner, I use my water bottle, but I hate using my good GU mix to spray on a dog then run low at the end of a ride, I 've recently installed a 115 db air horn, that think works, light, loud, annoying, lasts a long time and can be refilled with a hand pump, It pisses off the dog owner too. good luck
    Four wheels transport the body,

    Two wheels transport the soul !!!!

  3. #3
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    Thanks for sage advice.

    I'd appreciate a link to your horn if such is available.

    I'll save the pepper spray for mountain lions. A local person (I will keep her/his identity completely hidden and confidential because he/she spoke so frankly...he/she is the highest authority on this subject) told me last week there are mountain lions on my trail. He/she recommended I keep the pepper spray for such encounter in lieu of a firearm/carry permit. I won't carry a deadly weapon because I firmly believe in non-violence with humans, only and always, for any/every reason including self-defense.

    The above person also recommended "citrunella" (sp?) spray for domestic animal encounters.
    jimbo

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  4. #4
    DynoDon
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    This horn will drive anything away at 115 db it is ear shattering, and can be repumped with any shrader type pump...
    Amazon.com: Delta AirZound 115 dB: Rechargable Air Powered Horn: Sports & Outdoors
    Four wheels transport the body,

    Two wheels transport the soul !!!!

  5. #5
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    OK The above horn don't work when it gets a little cold and runs out of air real fast, plus it's cheaply made.
    Next, I had a buddy try to spray a dog with pepper spray and the wind blew it back into his eyes.
    And a good blast of water from your bottle works good. Or a loud firm "No" will send most dogs away or atleast slow them down enough for you to get away.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe V View Post
    OK The above horn don't work when it gets a little cold and runs out of air real fast, plus it's cheaply made.
    Next, I had a buddy try to spray a dog with pepper spray and the wind blew it back into his eyes.
    And a good blast of water from your bottle works good. Or a loud firm "No" will send most dogs away or atleast slow them down enough for you to get away.
    Sounds like your friend did not get the pepper spray that the police abusing Occupiers use...
    - David

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by manabiker View Post
    Pepper spray can kill a dog,
    Provide proof please. I have been able to find no accounts of dog deaths due to pepper spray.

    I got chased by a couple of vicious dobermans recently, and have been researching the topic.The whole reason pepper spray was developed was to have non-lethal means for defending against dogs, bears, and two-legged predators.

    I maintain pepper spray is your best option, this side of a Taurus Judge loaded with #4 buckshot. Which is actually your best option, depending upon local laws, legal jurisdiction, etc.

    Water may not cut it. An air horn might work, but then again, maybe not. What if the dog is deaf? It's been known to happen with certain breeds.

    And you certainly can't count on always outrunning the dog. I know a girl who's a pretty fast cyclist who was run down while on her bike & badly bitten by a Great Dane.

    Dog owners do bear ultimate responsibility for their animals, but it's our responsibility to be proactive in protecting ourselves, and I can tell you 100% I will be carrying pepper spray and will use it at the first provocation. I've been chased a few times, and the last time, one of the dobermans was actually able to put it's slobbery mouth on my leg, before he got a kick to the head. They chased my for at least a quarter mile at a dead sprint, and if I wasn't fresh, it could have ruined my day. As it was, my quads were pumped for 24 hours.

  8. #8
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    Wow...that's an interesting post.

    I guarantee you, being age 57 + steep grades on the trail, no way I could have outrun that labradoodle. I never saw him coming from behind anyway. The trail is 2-3' E of the wilderness fence. The 'doodle appeared out of nowhere from behind and locked onto my leg. There was no space to push him away.

    The incident was weird and memorable. 20-ish female alone, jogging, ear-buds plugged in both ears, 'doodle bouncing up the hill 100-150 E. As per SOP, I rang my bell and announced "'passing" (gently, I'm kinda of big and scary) on approach, which she did not hear till I was almost on her (very little human traffic). She was startled as she pulled out a bud and I passed without event...till I'm 50-75' past her when the doodle bites.

    My theory is the doodle was on vacation, he sensed her fear, arrived late, presumed (wrongly) I needed a good biting, and the rest is history.
    jimbo

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  9. #9
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    I carry pepper spray, it hasn't failed me yet.

    As far as it being dangerous to dogs, I have no idea, nor do I care. If I'm being chased by a vicious dog I really don't care if it lives, nor does the owner. If the owner cared, the dog wouldn't be able to chase me as it would be fenced in or on a lead.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by manabiker View Post
    ...its not the dogs fault...
    Quote Originally Posted by AcuNinja View Post
    Dog owners do bear ultimate responsibility...
    Dog owners may bear the legal responsibility, and if the dog actually bites you the owner will have to pay up if you go through the hassle of suing them, but "in the real world" it is extremely rare that any dog owner will admit their dog has done anything wrong, as long as the dog doesn't bite you its behavior is completely acceptable, anyone that disagrees with that, "hates dogs" thus their opinion is not to be counted. This has been my experience with bad owners/dogs.

    Unfortunately the logic is that "there are no bad dogs" and it has been my experience that no owner will admit they are bad so you end up in a catch 22 where the dog can't be blamed and the owner won't accept responsibility, great.


    Quote Originally Posted by manabiker View Post
    Pepper spray can kill a dog...
    Quote Originally Posted by AcuNinja View Post
    Provide proof please. I have been able to find no accounts of dog deaths due to pepper spray.
    Like acuninja, I have been unable to find a case where a dog died from being pepper sprayed.

  11. #11
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    A related story from my local animal protection officer, a County Deputy Sheriff: This area is pretty far right. He tells me how local parents, upon finding a couple pot seeds in Jr's backpack or his dresser drawer, they'll instantly call the PD and order them to "arrest" my son immediately, to teach him a lesson.

    But if the same officer threatens legal action against their dog, watch out, prepare for the Wrath of Ages: "What the blank do you think you're doing, Mr? Get your hands off my dog!"
    jimbo

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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 07stiltd View Post
    I carry pepper spray, it hasn't failed me yet.

    As far as it being dangerous to dogs, I have no idea, nor do I care. If I'm being chased by a vicious dog I really don't care if it lives, nor does the owner. If the owner cared, the dog wouldn't be able to chase me as it would be fenced in or on a lead.
    Exactly... protect yourself. If the dog is trying to hurt you then it deserves whatever happens to it, regardless of how the owner raised it. The owner deserves to be pepper sprayed too.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro7939 View Post
    Thanks for sage advice.

    I'd appreciate a link to your horn if such is available.

    I'll save the pepper spray for mountain lions. A local person (I will keep her/his identity completely hidden and confidential because he/she spoke so frankly...he/she is the highest authority on this subject) told me last week there are mountain lions on my trail.
    Sounds like an uneducated "authority" to me. If a mountain lion attacks it won't help even if you have a gun in your hands in most cases. They attack from behind and go for the neck or head. If you happen to see one it won't attack.
    I've never seen a mountain lion in the wild, hiked, mountain biked and worked outside in AZ for over 4 decades. If you have the time to get pepper spray out and it had planned to attack that would be a miracle cause either you're faster than "Billy the Kid" or the cat is in a time warp moving in slow motion.
    agmtb

  14. #14
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    Most of the dogs mentioned here are considered "sight hounds", meaning if they lived in the wild, they would hunt using their eyes, ie see "prey" running and chase. (Blood hounds and bear dogs and other similar are scent hounds) The point i'm trying to make is that if a sight hound has moving "prey" to chase it will be more inclined to chase that "prey" down. If you speed up when the dog starts chasing, in their minds the chase is on! So I am not saying in all cases that stopping would make the dog stop chasing, but there is a possibility that if you stop riding and stand up to the dog, or in certain cases turn your back to the dog, but it may work. Now I understand that if you see a vicious dog chasing this would probably be the last thing on your mind, but stopping may make the dog stop chasing, and if the owner is around you would be closer to the owner so they could get their dog under control easier if you stopped rather than having the dog chase you 1/4 mile down a trail. I'm not saying anyone is wrong, but just looking at it from a different perspective. Good luck out there.

  15. #15
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    Welp, I had my first vicious dog encounter last night I was riding a new-to-me trail that ended at a road crossing near a driveway. It was a slight uphill slog so I was going slow when all of a sudden I heard a single bark, some leaves rustling, and suddenly a large golden retriever. I did the forceful 'NO' and picked up my cadence, but he still bit me right above my left ankle pretty good. He let go and kept coming after me, teeth showing and growling, so I (instinctively, mind you) unclipped and gave him a pretty hard kick to back him off. Once I got to the road, I pedaled a safe distance away and checked my leg. I had 2 canine punctures, but nothing that would need stitches. I ended up google-mapping the house address and got a phone number for the house where the dog came from because there is no way I was riding down the guy's driveway to check for rabies paperwork. The woman who answered was very apologetic and didn't even know what just happened. She showed me his rabies certificate, I asked her to please be a little more mindful of unleashed dogs especially if territorial, and rode back to the truck.

    I'm definitely going to try the airhorn thing now though. I'll be honest- I never imagined I'd be in any situation where a domestic dog would scare me until yesterday. We're talking full-on adrenaline pumping fear for a a few seconds...

  16. #16
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    Sorry to hear of your ordeal.

    I'm 6-3 over 200# and I bench press. I would have exited the breath from that dog's nostrils if I could have, but it was just not possible. It was a "bite and run back to momma" affair. It's not fun pulling your flesh from the teeth of a large canine.
    jimbo

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  17. #17
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    Nothing wrong with a blast of any of the following:

    ** Any type of pepper spray
    ** Lemon juice + water 50/50 mix
    ** A smack from an expanding / collapsing baton
    ** Don't forget the good old tazer.

    I personally go with the baton because pepper residual sucks. A collapsing baton is small, light, and usually one good smack is all it takes. You are well within the law to defend yourself anyway you feel works against animal attacks as long as you don't put other people in danger.
    - The only thing that keeps me on a bike is happiness.

  18. #18
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    If I spot the dog from a distance I'll eyball it and if possible head straight forward it. Intimidation works a lot of the time. I've been surprised from behind and I dismounted as quickly as possible and did the confrontational stuff using my bike as a weapon or shield of a sorts. No way can I outrun a dog and I know I'll get nipped or worse.

    The only time I got bit was when running with my buddy his male German Shepherd decided to go after my female Rottweiler who zipped behind me (so much for protecting her master) and I got bit - real good. I cleaned it pretty good as I would a typical cut, and it still got infected. From that I learned to take dog bites seriously.

  19. #19
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    1) Animal bites (that break skin) almost always require a trip to the doctor, be it the emergency room or otherwise for care/antibiotics. If you see the owner, or otherwise know who owns the dog, you need to know (and see proof) that they have a current vaccination for rabies. If it doesn't (or you can't find the owner) you may need to go through THAT nightmare of getting vaccinated yourself. Not something you want to play around with.

    If you plan on defending yourself against a dog, it's a good idea to free your foot before they get to you, as clipping out just gives the dog an easy target to bite.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by wschruba View Post
    1) Animal bites (that break skin) almost always require a trip to the doctor, be it the emergency room or otherwise for care/antibiotics. If you see the owner, or otherwise know who owns the dog, you need to know (and see proof) that they have a current vaccination for rabies. If it doesn't (or you can't find the owner) you may need to go through THAT nightmare of getting vaccinated yourself. Not something you want to play around with.

    If you plan on defending yourself against a dog, it's a good idea to free your foot before they get to you, as clipping out just gives the dog an easy target to bite.
    Amen to your bite advise, wish I knew that before I was bitten.

    If a dog is after me and I'm not going like blazes downhill (never happened that way) I want to get off the bike ASAP and put the bike between me and the dog. Let'em chew on the tire, anything but me.

    As for pepper spray, I still have a small cannister I carried for awhile while running but never used it in ten or twelve years. Not that I didn't see an occasional dog but there was never any real need for the pepper spray. Intimidation works a lot of time but then running going the other way works too, if you're far enough away to do that.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by OmaHaq View Post
    Nothing wrong with a blast of any of the following:

    ** Any type of pepper spray
    ** Lemon juice + water 50/50 mix
    ** A smack from an expanding / collapsing baton
    ** Don't forget the good old tazer.

    I personally go with the baton because pepper residual sucks. A collapsing baton is small, light, and usually one good smack is all it takes. You are well within the law to defend yourself anyway you feel works against animal attacks as long as you don't put other people in danger.
    I'd appreciate a link to a suitable baton. Is such legally classified as a "concealed weapon?"

    Readiness is big component here. I recently exited my trail at the mouth of the Canyon, paved just W of the gated fence. At the third house down the hill I pulled off to raise my seat, take a drink, whatever. A woman barely adult if at all sat in an electric golf cart (I suppose used to get up and down the mountain, visit friends, who knows) with her friend, parked in their driveway amongst other vehicles, hiding her and her loose dog. They're on the S side of the street, me on the N. Her black lab ran across the street from between the several vehicles, leaving not enough time to grab the spray velcro'd to the top tube.

    Man I hate this loose dog thing.

    In the case of being knocked unconscious it's imperative to receive professional care to confirm the presence or lack of internal bleeding. A guy I know was knocked out in a vehicle accident and did not get checked. A week later the original injury resulted in him being a paraplegic.
    jimbo

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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro7939 View Post
    I'd appreciate a link to a suitable baton. Is such legally classified as a "concealed weapon?"

    Readiness is big component here. I recently exited my trail at the mouth of the Canyon, paved just W of the gated fence. At the third house down the hill I pulled off to raise my seat, take a drink, whatever. A woman barely adult if at all sat in an electric golf cart (I suppose used to get up and down the mountain, visit friends, who knows) with her friend, parked in their driveway amongst other vehicles, hiding her and her loose dog. They're on the S side of the street, me on the N. Her black lab ran across the street from between the several vehicles, leaving not enough time to grab the spray velcro'd to the top tube.

    Man I hate this loose dog thing.

    In the case of being knocked unconscious it's imperative to receive professional care to confirm the presence or lack of internal bleeding. A guy I know was knocked out in a vehicle accident and did not get checked. A week later the original injury resulted in him being a paraplegic.
    A Lab you say. The military gave up on trying to use them for police dogs because they couldn't get them to bite. I'm not sure mine would bite someone even if they were attacking me - but then nobody loves me like my dog does, so I tell my wife.

  23. #23
    @trailgrinder
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    Man my neighbors lab is scary as hell and vicious, he as to be walked with a muzzle because he isa risk and Irish more people used muzzles on their dogs, it would help preent some bitings.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ro7939 View Post
    I won't carry a deadly weapon because I firmly believe in non-violence with humans, only and always, for any/every reason including self-defense.
    ROFLMAO. I'm sure mountain lions practice the same believe system. Just give him a namaste and he will step aside and let you pass. I hear bears are believers too. Oh.. and
    No it never stops hurting, but if you keep at it you can go faster.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by modifier View Post
    ROFLMAO. I'm sure mountain lions practice the same believe system. Just give him a namaste and he will step aside and let you pass. I hear bears are believers too. Oh.. and
    There is, practically speaking, no mt. lion threat here during the hours I ride. It's off the beaten path, but housing creeps closer and closer every day. There's no bear threat of any kind.

    I don't care if every other MTB rider in the world carries a gun. Actually, the fact that many locals carry is the reason I won't carry: Suppose I kill a big dog showing its teeth and growling, running full speed in my direction. The dog owner nearby (the criminal in this case), feels, so I'm told by local constabulary, I've done worse than physically violate a human family member. He points his weapon in my direction. What do I do? Kill him? I'm a damn good shooter BTW.

    Shooting and killing that human being, regardless of whose right/wrong ethically, morally, legally, would cost me about $100k in legal fees.

    If you think the risk is worth it, fine, shoot away. Personally, the risk to reward ratio is imbecilic.
    jimbo

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