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  1. #51
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    ….So I was wondering why a person would get so upset about marketing hype…

    Then I was wondering why someone would make up all these supposed technical flaws about an obviously capable bike that has won awards… about a fork that MBUK calls ‘The ultra stiff, 6in travel upside down fork’ and ‘the ultimate long travel trail fork if you’ve got the cash’ ….
    About a frame that by any standard (and yes, I have an engineering degree though not in mechanics or structural and don’t work in the industry anymore) is ultrastiff and strong for the weight … a rear suspension that pivots at two points in a line and so has a ‘virtual’ diameter of around 8in or so (though not exactly as there are short links involved)… and 20mm bobbins where the wheel meets…. yet this guy reckons a similar single pivot with 15mm bearings with a standard QR is somehow going to be noticeably stiffer… !!! (what field is your engineering degree mate!!!) ….

    Must admit I was a little perplexed…. Why go on to a website and bag somebody elses bike?… must have a huge chip on the shoulder about something…

    And now I have found the answer… TrailMonster owns a Ventana!!!! (Not that these are not good bikes)… but TM, this is funny!!!! YOU, are telling US that we go for hype!!!! This is the ultimate ‘pot calling the kettle black’!!!! Ventana’s are Kona’s with a paint job…. Unless of course you believe the ‘made in America is better’ ‘second to none’ hyperbola that comes off the Ventana website!!!!!


    Oh dear, I just thought of something… you paid HOW MUCH for your bike that does …. …well, what a Kona does really…. (not that Kona‘s are bad bikes… but they are a hell of a lot cheaper than a Ventana) …. And let me guess… that is why you have a chip on your shoulder…

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    ….So I was wondering why a person would get so upset about marketing hype…

    Then I was wondering why someone would make up all these supposed technical flaws about an obviously capable bike that has won awards… about a fork that MBUK calls ‘The ultra stiff, 6in travel upside down fork’ and ‘the ultimate long travel trail fork if you’ve got the cash’ ….
    About a frame that by any standard (and yes, I have an engineering degree though not in mechanics or structural and don’t work in the industry anymore) is ultrastiff and strong for the weight … a rear suspension that pivots at two points in a line and so has a ‘virtual’ diameter of around 8in or so (though not exactly as there are short links involved)… and 20mm bobbins where the wheel meets…. yet this guy reckons a similar single pivot with 15mm bearings with a standard QR is somehow going to be noticeably stiffer… !!! (what field is your engineering degree mate!!!) ….

    Must admit I was a little perplexed…. Why go on to a website and bag somebody elses bike?… must have a huge chip on the shoulder about something…

    And now I have found the answer… TrailMonster owns a Ventana!!!! (Not that these are not good bikes)… but TM, this is funny!!!! YOU, are telling US that we go for hype!!!! This is the ultimate ‘pot calling the kettle black’!!!! Ventana’s are Kona’s with a paint job…. Unless of course you believe the ‘made in America is better’ ‘second to none’ hyperbola that comes off the Ventana website!!!!!


    Oh dear, I just thought of something… you paid HOW MUCH for your bike that does …. …well, what a Kona does really…. (not that Kona‘s are bad bikes… but they are a hell of a lot cheaper than a Ventana) …. And let me guess… that is why you have a chip on your shoulder…
    Someone's upset I don't like their bike. Calm down, perhaps give 856er a call and you can both go out on your nice bikes for a spin. You're spending far too much time trying to vindicate your bike choice to me. You've stated your opinions, I've stated mine. We don't agree, so just live with it.

    I have no chip on my shoulder and since you ask I do have a Degree in Mechanical Engineering, a Masters Degree in Vehicle Dynamics, with 15 years and counting experience working in F1 (As a chassis/suspension engineer) . Before you ask, I have absolutely nothing against Jon Whyte, I simply don't agree with his design concept for this bike. It just doesn't offer any advantages (IMHO) over, shall we say, a more conventional design.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Someone's upset I don't like their bike. Calm down, perhaps give 856er a call and you can both go out on your nice bikes for a spin. You're spending far too much time trying to vindicate your bike choice to me. You've stated your opinions, I've stated mine. We don't agree, so just live with it.

    I have no chip on my shoulder and since you ask I do have a Degree in Mechanical Engineering, a Masters Degree in Vehicle Dynamics, with 15 years and counting experience working in F1 (As a chassis/suspension engineer) . Before you ask, I have absolutely nothing against Jon Whyte, I simply don't agree with his design concept for this bike. It just doesn't offer any advantages (IMHO) over, shall we say, a more conventional design.
    LOL Looks like someone's run out of idea's and wants the last word eh,
    nothing against Jon Whyte,yer right try re reading your own posts this time,
    and (Quote) It just doesn't offer any advantages (IMHO) over, shall we say, a more conventional design.
    so who do we believe you with your stated engineering or Jon,
    what do we have then you dismissing F1 technology but thats what you do,
    Jon Ex F1 engineer and I suspect higher up the pecking order than you've achieved (though know doubt you will correct me on this) who has been a very keen MTBer for
    many many years and got of this arse and decided to give MTB design ago,

    or I suspect the most relevent of them all, the opinions and the many many reviews from owners, testers,and journalists across the continents out there from many experianced riders,probably far more capable than you or I.


    yes you stated your opinion,not much about the bike though, just marketing,
    don't like the company, F1 technology blah blah blah,

    believe me your the last person I'd want to even consider vindicating any decisions
    I make (thats for me & me alone to worry about),worked for too many years in the automotive (production) industry to
    even try to get an engineer to acknowledge there mistakes,arrogance comes to mind,
    ring a bell, (Quote again, many UK riders are gullible dorks,)try looking closer to home,

    oh yes going out for spin with EP great idea but next time do some research,
    check the continents its abit far for a quick spin.

  4. #54
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    Kona with a different paint job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    ….So I was wondering why a person would get so upset about marketing hype…

    Then I was wondering why someone would make up all these supposed technical flaws about an obviously capable bike that has won awards… about a fork that MBUK calls ‘The ultra stiff, 6in travel upside down fork’ and ‘the ultimate long travel trail fork if you’ve got the cash’ ….
    About a frame that by any standard (and yes, I have an engineering degree though not in mechanics or structural and don’t work in the industry anymore) is ultrastiff and strong for the weight … a rear suspension that pivots at two points in a line and so has a ‘virtual’ diameter of around 8in or so (though not exactly as there are short links involved)… and 20mm bobbins where the wheel meets…. yet this guy reckons a similar single pivot with 15mm bearings with a standard QR is somehow going to be noticeably stiffer… !!! (what field is your engineering degree mate!!!) ….

    Must admit I was a little perplexed…. Why go on to a website and bag somebody elses bike?… must have a huge chip on the shoulder about something…

    And now I have found the answer… TrailMonster owns a Ventana!!!! (Not that these are not good bikes)… but TM, this is funny!!!! YOU, are telling US that we go for hype!!!! This is the ultimate ‘pot calling the kettle black’!!!! Ventana’s are Kona’s with a paint job…. Unless of course you believe the ‘made in America is better’ ‘second to none’ hyperbola that comes off the Ventana website!!!!!


    Oh dear, I just thought of something… you paid HOW MUCH for your bike that does …. …well, what a Kona does really…. (not that Kona‘s are bad bikes… but they are a hell of a lot cheaper than a Ventana) …. And let me guess… that is why you have a chip on your shoulder…
    Too funny. Pot calling kettle black. You are bagging on Ventana now. I find it interesting that people such as yourself tend to label other bike manufacturers using the faux bar design as Kona bikes in disguise. So, by this thought process; Cove, Banshee, Turner, Trek, Transition, Ventana, and a myriad of other bike companies are just Kona clones? I have read on these boards that now that Turner has dropped the HL, they are just an over priced Kona. Not quite.

    There are many other differences between Ventana and Kona than just a paint job. This goes for every other company as well. There are differences in pivot placements, geometry, stiffness, materials, quality of construction, and on and on. Kona makes a good product, but if someone wants to spend more on a custom bike, who cares? You are just perpetuating this arguement by bagging on a guy for his choice of bikes.

    Btw, does Kona offer quad bearings for extra stiffness? What about a bushing pivot system with grease ports? Heavy duty swing arm option? Custom geometry? I guess quad bearings don't offer extra stiffness and bearing longevity. Afterall, anything that comes off of the Ventana website is pure hype. The Bushing system that Turner uses must be hype as well.

    All companies use "hype" to a certain extent, to move the product. Every bike company claims their design is the best. This is nothing new. It is all about preference and opinion. Some think the hype is founded, and others don't.

    Damn these over priced and over hyped bicycle companies! I am getting a Kona. LOL!
    Last edited by ronny; 05-07-2006 at 12:45 PM.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by 856er
    LOL Looks like someone's run out of idea's and wants the last word eh,
    nothing against Jon Whyte,yer right try re reading your own posts this time,
    and (Quote) It just doesn't offer any advantages (IMHO) over, shall we say, a more conventional design.
    so who do we believe you with your stated engineering or Jon,
    what do we have then you dismissing F1 technology but thats what you do,
    Jon Ex F1 engineer and I suspect higher up the pecking order than you've achieved (though know doubt you will correct me on this) who has been a very keen MTBer for
    many many years and got of this arse and decided to give MTB design ago,

    or I suspect the most relevent of them all, the opinions and the many many reviews from owners, testers,and journalists across the continents out there from many experianced riders,probably far more capable than you or I.


    yes you stated your opinion,not much about the bike though, just marketing,
    don't like the company, F1 technology blah blah blah,

    believe me your the last person I'd want to even consider vindicating any decisions
    I make (thats for me & me alone to worry about),worked for too many years in the automotive (production) industry to
    even try to get an engineer to acknowledge there mistakes,arrogance comes to mind,
    ring a bell, (Quote again, many UK riders are gullible dorks,)try looking closer to home,

    oh yes going out for spin with EP great idea but next time do some research,
    check the continents its abit far for a quick spin.
    Wow! you are upset. I can almost feel the anger in your scathing words. You're just talking crap now so go on, let it all out, you'll feel much better. You obviously take issue with my opinion of your bike and its UK marketing, so now you're just wasting your time trying to convince yourself and anyone else that my opinion is worthless. Simply because it's not in line with your own. I'm thoroughly bored with this thread now, like I'm sure everyone else is, so I'll leave you to it. Please feel free to have the last word. I'm sure it will be very informative.

  6. #56
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    uktrailmonster is a total wanker IMHO.

    What do you do in F1 and did you have a good day at the Nurburgring today?

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by KarlosPirahna
    uktrailmonster is a total wanker IMHO.

    What do you do in F1 and did you have a good day at the Nurburgring today?
    Thanks for that, I'm deeply upset. But I'll get over it. Who the f**k are you anyway?

  8. #58
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    Oh, I'm just a nobody compared to you, a genius F1 engineer. What do I know other than you sound like an antagonistic Pr*ck.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Wow! you are upset. I can almost feel the anger in your scathing words. You're just talking crap now so go on, let it all out, you'll feel much better. You obviously take issue with my opinion of your bike and its UK marketing, so now you're just wasting your time trying to convince yourself and anyone else that my opinion is worthless. Simply because it's not in line with your own. I'm thoroughly bored with this thread now, like I'm sure everyone else is, so I'll leave you to it. Please feel free to have the last word. I'm sure it will be very informative.
    Okay I will,

    upset, LOL you really can't read me at all,

  10. #60
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    Hand bags at Dawn

    The first part of this thread is really interesting and informative and i like the information i have picked up about the bike,definetley one for my short list..

    Tha rest of this thread is really funny ..............Hand bags at dawn i presume lol

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    Too funny. Pot calling kettle black. You are bagging on Ventana now. I find it interesting that people such as yourself tend to label other bike manufacturers using the faux bar design as Kona bikes in disguise. So, by this thought process; Cove, Banshee, Turner, Trek, Transition, Ventana, and a myriad of other bike companies are just Kona clones? I have read on these boards that now that Turner has dropped the HL, they are just an over priced Kona. Not quite.

    Ronny, I think you may have missed the joke. You might want to reread our original posts…

    To clarify… I well know that highend bikes are better built in the respect of materials, tolerances etc… I well know Ventana is a good bike and I said so… are you an American? Not that there is anything wrong with that … but sometimes you folks often don’t get the often low key humour of the Commonwealth… not that our humour is in anyway better than yours – only different!!

    …both 856er and myself also know that marketing hype is just that – hype… and we pointed out that out quite a few posts back…

  12. #62
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    You are right, I should have read all the posts. I am a Canadian btw. I am not sure what our humour is up here. Laid back I guess and most of us Canucks have no problem making fun of ourselves.

    I got interested in this thread because the Kona vs Turner and Ventana comparison is getting used quite a bit lately. There is nothing wrong with Kona, but they are different bikes.

    I am not sure about the Whyte 46. It seems it either gets really good reviews, or poor ones. I really like the Commencal line up myself. I almost got the meta 5.10, but I am still a coil shock hold out.

    Cheers.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronny
    I am not sure about the Whyte 46. It seems it either gets really good reviews, or poor ones.
    Cheers.
    LOL, that appears to be the problem its never had a bad review (mag review that is),

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mzungo
    Tha rest of this thread is really funny ..............Hand bags at dawn i presume lol
    Yeah your right,bit of a laugh though.

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