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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharacterZero
    nice write up - but what do you mean that it is not the same suspension design? Fork is a fork - not part of the Quad Link.
    The rear shock placement, pivot points and rear axel path all appear to be the same as the Marin quad tara.
    Please correct me if i am wrong, and I just might be on this issue.
    Yes you are quite right there Zero... the actual linkage is the same on the Tara Quads...
    I have only ridden the Mount Vision which is the 4in version (the links are quite different) and a Wolf Ridge with a Talas . That was set up with a 5in rear and a 5in fork... It is quite a different feel even though the rear suspension has the same links.

    Having a light 6in fork on the front and bags of comfyiness(?!) on the rear that is super effecient with both an effecient suspension and a 'propedal' style shock is wonderful on long epic rides. That you can then tighten the whole rig up to 4in with tightened geometry for that style of riding is Versatile (with the capital 'V')

    The Maverick DUC32 is an amazing bit of gear. I have the new seals etc so have never had technical probs that others mention. Also it is obvious that some people haven’t read the Maverick setup chart at all if they think there is a rebound problem. (like certain testers in a recent bike mag!) Yes, this fork does require some setup but have you noticed the weight spec?!
    I have mine set up for a very plush first 3in (I have a lighter air negative spring with less air pressure in the compression leg) and a 'stiffer' last 3in (by having more oil in the compression reservoir that quickens the compression rate at the bottom of the curve.) I have swapped to 10wt oil in the rebound leg and left the shims and air alone. This all took around 60min at home. which included a beer...

    One of the better report cards for the 46 comes from a semipro racer on the enduro circuits in Australia. He was given a 46 to race the Mont 24HR which is a rough course. He told me how where everybody else was worrying about lines thru roots and rocks he just ploughed thru the middle and didn't worry. In his opinion the best and most comfortable rig he has ever used in an enduro.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by 856er
    The linkage fork PRST bikes are no more,
    New Whyte E-5 model instead.
    Yeah... I had a look at the E-5... nice bike and all but very different from the 46... Nowhere near as versatile for the average punter IMHO... and I don't get those forks either.. mind you, I haven't actually ridden one...

  3. #28
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    we are a Marin dealer but we don't really do much with them and I haven't ridden the bike

    btw, I have two buds who both LOVE their 6.6s
    both have had numerous HL bikes
    Truths (both had)
    original motolites (and current)
    Supermoto
    5 spot (hl)
    tracer

    and I am sure I am missing some

    we live in VERY rocky terrain with lots of short but hard climbs

    I have a 5.5 and while I did not care for the Blur at all, I LOVE the 5.5

  4. #29
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    I've tested the E-5 and it was a close call as to wheather I got the 46 or E-5,
    the E-5 is very light for a 5" travel f/r rig (25lbs),very stiff as well but just not as plush as the 46 and I couldn't really get on with the single crown Maverick forks,probably with some fettling I could of got them how I'd like them,
    I like the DUC 32's however I'd like more details of the tuning you did to these forks Electric Panda,I read in a mag recently that swapping the shim stack around can improve things if you feel the need.

    No U.S dealers as far as I'm aware,only way I think you can get them is through ATB sales in the UK but I'd guess that would be expensive.

  5. #30
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    Hey 856er, the page is on the Maverick site ... there is also good stuff on troubleshooting and service and installation pdf's

    http://www.maverickamerican.com/maverick.manuals.htm

  6. #31
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    Very entertaining thread. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's a nice bike and all, but I have a few problems with Whyte bikes.

    For a start:-

    "Fundamental to the QUAD-Link system is the intelligent wheel path. Early on in its travel the wheel moves back as well as up, encouraging the suspension to lift the wheel smoothly over roots and rocks. Further through the travel the wheel-path moves forward towards the BB, optimising chaingrowth to eliminate bobbing and pedal feedback. Combined with the intelligent wheel-to-shock ratio, the result is a sublimely efficient system that delivers fantastic small bump response, phenomenal traction and lightning responses to rider input."

    Blah blah blah "intelligent" this, "intelligent" that, "F1 technology", blah blah, blah
    Techno BS might work on some people, but it doesn't work on engineers. Sorry, but this crap came straight from the marketing department.

    Secondly, just because Whyte was involved in F1, it doesn't make him a mountain bike design god. There are some basic similarities, but there is very little technology carry over from F1 to mountain biking. Someone above mentioned that F1 cars use welded monocoques. Well perhaps back in the 70's they did!

    Thirdly, the UK press pretend they understand all the above techno mumbo jumbo and recite it back in all their reviews, with a clear lack of both physics and engineering knowledge. Why don't they just tell us how well it rides!

    Finally, I actually test rode a 46. It was errmm... not that bad, but certainly nothing special. It was a clanky, noisy, creaky sort of ride and I could feel the flexy fork and rear end far too much for my liking. I also remember the BB was scarily high off the ground. Overall I'd say an interesting attempt at a long travel, lightweight XC concept, but flawed in many ways. The build quality and finish was disappointing too for a £2700 bike. I can weld better than that myself (which isn't saying much). I certainly wouldn't bother importing one into the US, you have enough better bikes to choose from eg. Turner, Ventana, Yeti, etc.

    Unfortunately, I think Gonzostrike sums it up quite well actually!! Sad as it is, many UK riders are gullible dorks, you only have to take a look at Singletrackworld to get the picture.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Overall I'd say an interesting attempt at a long travel, lightweight XC concept, but flawed in many ways. The build quality and finish was disappointing too for a £2700 bike. I can weld better than that myself (which isn't saying much). I certainly wouldn't bother importing one into the US, you have enough better bikes to choose from eg. Turner, Ventana, Yeti, etc.
    Wow, scathing review. I suspect the reality about the 46 is somewhere between ElectricPanda's and 85er's glowing reviews and your total pan of the bike.... but it would have to be all they said and more for me to pay $5K + import taxes and shipping to get one here.

    If one were available from Charles at Hammerheadbikes and at comparable price to a 6.6... and I had a chance to ride one first and found it better.... I'd buy it in a heart beat.


    Lotta if's. It's fun to be different, but if all those "ifs" were in place, I suspect I wouldn't be the only one riding one here in the US.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by KRob
    Wow, scathing review. I suspect the reality about the 46 is somewhere between ElectricPanda's and 85er's glowing reviews and your total pan of the bike.... but it would have to be all they said and more for me to pay $5K + import taxes and shipping to get one here.
    Actually I was aiming most of my scathing review at the marketing hype and BS surrounding both this bike and the company, rather than the 46 itself. In the UK, we've all had to suffer endless ass-licking reviews of this bike for the past few years - all with at least one reference to "intelligent" suspension and "F1 technology". I wouldn't mind so much if it lived up to its hype, but sadly it doesn't for me. Having said all that it was on my test ride shortlist - perhaps by the time I rode it I was expecting too much

    Leaving aside the marketing hype - which always puts me off, I would say:-

    Pros:
    Light for such long travel - perhaps breaking new ground in the UK (2 years ago that is)

    Cons:
    Frame and forks not stiff enough for some people
    Average build quality

    Oh I give up, I can't think of anything else good to say about the damn thing! Buy a Turner, Ventana, RM or Yeti instead. I think they're all better bikes.

  9. #34
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    1. Of course there is lots of marketing hype – but what mtb company doesn’t…? have you seem how much Specialised spend on convincing us their suspension is the best.? Ventana X5 (glorified Kona’s), RM ETSX (great bike IMO), Yeti 575 (now there is a noodle frame! But it is only meant for XC), Turner’s (glorified Specialised’s)… ridden them all… and all of them have hype as to why you should buy their bike… it’s called capitalism… welcome aboard…

    2. Every magazine in the world uses riders not engineers to write their ‘reviews’. And obviously the technical detail on for example WHY a suspension goes up hills better is missing. Americans mags are the same as are the English and Australians and anybody else.

    3. Whyte does know something about suspension. His working in F1 backs that up.

    4. If your Whyte 46 made noises it is the fault of the mechanics in the shop not the bikes fault

    5. If you thought it was high off the ground – get it with the Alpine link – I don’t know why the British have it like that but it is popular.

    6. yes the early 04 Whyte’s had a problem with paint and finish but not build quality. All version 1’s have problems no matter what company/product.

    7. you say the frame is flexy… compared to what?! It is a welded monocoque… to get the same stiffness in tubing the frame has to be very heavy… that is why they used and still use it in F1 and other high end racing (yes, I appreciate they mostly use dedicated carbon processes now – btw they never did use Easton tubing at any time) …. And if you can weld straighter than a robotic arm every bike company in the world would be knocking at your door… The Maverick fork…. The front hub has a thru axle. The fork is has two massive cross bars. If anyone says it is not stiff they must be comparing it to a World Cup Boxer. I ride with a club. We swap rides as you do - the Maverick is by far the stiffest fork in the XC set. When we get to a Fox 36 with a thru axle there is some comparison – but the 36 is another half pound or more. What fork in this category do you think is stiffer?!


    At the end of the day the quad link suspension is inherently efficient via its wheel path (check it out on a CAD program) that is not to say it is the most efficient – that award would have to go to something like RM’s ETSX and similar – but it is good. You can have 4in rising rate or 6in linear at the flick of QR for the types of riding you are doing today – brilliant and versatile. Same goes with the fork.

    Versatile. Light enough to race at 4in with closer geometry. Beefy enough to hit All Mountain style on 6in with relaxed geometry. What other bike comes close to this? This bike still sets the goal posts for AM bikes. It did when it won ‘Bike of the Year’ twice in a row and still does.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    1. Of course there is lots of marketing hype – but what mtb company doesn’t…? have you seem how much Specialised spend on convincing us their suspension is the best.? Ventana X5 (glorified Kona’s), RM ETSX (great bike IMO), Yeti 575 (now there is a noodle frame! But it is only meant for XC), Turner’s (glorified Specialised’s)… ridden them all… and all of them have hype as to why you should buy their bike… it’s called capitalism… welcome aboard…

    2. Every magazine in the world uses riders not engineers to write their ‘reviews’. And obviously the technical detail on for example WHY a suspension goes up hills better is missing. Americans mags are the same as are the English and Australians and anybody else.

    3. Whyte does know something about suspension. His working in F1 backs that up.

    4. If your Whyte 46 made noises it is the fault of the mechanics in the shop not the bikes fault

    5. If you thought it was high off the ground – get it with the Alpine link – I don’t know why the British have it like that but it is popular.

    6. yes the early 04 Whyte’s had a problem with paint and finish but not build quality. All version 1’s have problems no matter what company/product.

    7. you say the frame is flexy… compared to what?! It is a welded monocoque… to get the same stiffness in tubing the frame has to be very heavy… that is why they used and still use it in F1 and other high end racing (yes, I appreciate they mostly use dedicated carbon processes now – btw they never did use Easton tubing at any time) …. And if you can weld straighter than a robotic arm every bike company in the world would be knocking at your door… The Maverick fork…. The front hub has a thru axle. The fork is has two massive cross bars. If anyone says it is not stiff they must be comparing it to a World Cup Boxer. I ride with a club. We swap rides as you do - the Maverick is by far the stiffest fork in the XC set. When we get to a Fox 36 with a thru axle there is some comparison – but the 36 is another half pound or more. What fork in this category do you think is stiffer?!


    At the end of the day the quad link suspension is inherently efficient via its wheel path (check it out on a CAD program) that is not to say it is the most efficient – that award would have to go to something like RM’s ETSX and similar – but it is good. You can have 4in rising rate or 6in linear at the flick of QR for the types of riding you are doing today – brilliant and versatile. Same goes with the fork.

    Versatile. Light enough to race at 4in with closer geometry. Beefy enough to hit All Mountain style on 6in with relaxed geometry. What other bike comes close to this? This bike still sets the goal posts for AM bikes. It did when it won ‘Bike of the Year’ twice in a row and still does.
    Damn you beat me to it

    what gets me is the constant reference to UK mags UK tests blah blah blah
    so you assume we read a mag review and just go out and spend a load of money
    without a thorougher test first I tested other bikes, owned and own other bikes,even made my own
    bike including aluminium welding on it,

    also as your so anti UK reviews try going through the many threads in these forums and the UK mags are the only
    one's that get constantly excellent comments especially from our American cousin's,
    if a UK mag thought something was poor they damn well say it irrespective
    of where its made,

    and just because its not available in the U.S it doesn't mean its not tested and available
    else where,
    checkout the reviews from Austrailia,New Zealand,South Africa etc can they all be wrong

    poor welding your having a laugh maybe on the 04 model but things have moved on since,
    mine's got some of he best welding I've ever seen and I damn I've seen a lot of welding in my time.
    Last edited by 856er; 05-06-2006 at 03:00 AM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Actually I was aiming most of my scathing review at the marketing hype and BS surrounding both this bike and the company, rather than the 46 itself. In the UK, we've all had to suffer endless ass-licking reviews of this bike for the past few years -
    . Having said all that it was on my test ride shortlist - perhaps by the time I rode it I was expecting too much

    Leaving aside the marketing hype - which always puts me off, I would say:-

    Pros:
    Light for such long travel - perhaps breaking new ground in the UK (2 years ago that is)


    Oh I give up,
    Hmmm reading between the lines your issue is with marketing and your own dislike of marketing etc,

    How sad

    suppose if the same marketing was used with Ventana,RM's,Spec,Yeti etc they'ed
    end up with similar opinion.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    Hey 856er, the page is on the Maverick site ... there is also good stuff on troubleshooting and service and installation pdf's

    http://www.maverickamerican.com/maverick.manuals.htm
    Thanks,dunno why I couldn't find this before,very helpfull
    gonna do some fettling now

  13. #38
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    hey 856er you should check out the Whyte46 owners site if you haven't been there already... my tag there is 'therealdan'

    http://groups.msn.com/Whyte46/_whatsnew.msnw

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    hey 856er you should check out the Whyte46 owners site if you haven't been there already... my tag there is 'therealdan'

    http://groups.msn.com/Whyte46/_whatsnew.msnw
    Hey I'm there (only resently) Spannerman167,as you can see I had a couple of issue's
    all sorted now,very happy,will be looking into getting the Alpine-link in the future, you seem
    very keen on it,should be ideal when I get down to Afan.

  15. #40
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    Of course!! should have recognized the red hopes in your avatar!

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    Electric Panda and 856er - You both clearly rate this bike very highly and that's great. I think it's over-hyped, over-complicated and I don't rate the engineering as anything special. We just have different opinions that's all. You're not going to change yours and I'm not going to change mine.

    Nothing wrong with welded monocoques, but for use on a bike frame it's debatable whether they offer any benefit over tubes (spaceframe if you prefer). Monocoques work best when there is decent section to work on. Bikes are basically flat-plane 2-dimensional objects. That's why triangular spaceframes are so popular in bike design.

    And for the last time EP, there are no F1 cars currently using ANY form of "welded" monocoque and tubing is often used in lower forms of motor-racing. There is nothing on the Whyte 46 that has any relevance to F1.

    As for marketing, you both seem to have swallowed the pill judging by some of your earlier posts. You're right I do hate marketing, but luckily I'm pretty immune to it

  17. #42
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    Over-hyped?! what expensive pushbike isn't...

    over-complicated?! suspension 5 pivot points ?! not at all unusual...

    welded monocoques are stiffer and stronger for their weight but expensive to produce... though Whyte is not the only builder using it... (layered carbon is better but no one of the majors in bike land is using it yet in production - The Australian track team had some a few years back)

    2 dimensional?! sit behind a sprinter in a road race watch his frame and tell me about 2 dimensions in a bike frame...

    marketing... it is obvious from both out posts that we have extensive experience with bikes... I put rear suspensions into a CAD program before making my decision for example... IMO Whyte has come up with a design that is more effective, more versatile than any current AM bike for what I want ie it has to race as well as just ride around. My friends have other capable bikes. None of them come close to a Whyte in versatility or effectiveness. 6in of suspension is a major advantage in technical trails. There is not a lot of options here in a light bike. As well as that, not too many bikes allow a 4in setting that changes the geometry as well
    Last edited by Electric Panda; 05-06-2006 at 05:40 AM.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    Electric Panda and 856er - You both clearly rate this bike very highly and that's great. I think it's over-hyped, over-complicated and I don't rate the engineering as anything special. We just have different opinions that's all. You're not going to change yours and I'm not going to change mine.

    Nothing wrong with welded monocoques, but for use on a bike frame it's debatable whether they offer any benefit over tubes (spaceframe if you prefer). Monocoques work best when there is decent section to work on. Bikes are basically flat-plane 2-dimensional objects. That's why triangular spaceframes are so popular in bike design.

    And for the last time EP, there are no F1 cars currently using ANY form of "welded" monocoque and tubing is often used in lower forms of motor-racing. There is nothing on the Whyte 46 that has any relevance to F1.

    As for marketing, you both seem to have swallowed the pill judging by some of your earlier posts. You're right I do hate marketing, but luckily I'm pretty immune to it
    Actually your not immune to it from your own comments.Quote,Having said all that it was on my test ride shortlist - perhaps by the time I rode it I was expecting too much

    you said you tested it (not lived with it) because of the hype and found (for you it wasn't what you wanted) no problem there,even your very little effort of an actual ride review was quite positive,
    I tested other bikes but I wouldn't dream of putting them down just because they weren't
    for me.
    I bought my 46 after 2 thorough tests and found it ideal for my needs,
    I also don't get this over complicated your on about,whats complicated about any of it
    its only a bike,maybe construction could be abit more complicated but thats certainly not reflected in the cost, infact like for like with other makes of similar spec if pretty cheap,

    as for the F1 connection come on you know as well as I it only gets mentioned because
    Jon was a former F1 suspension engineer at Benetton with M.Schumacher,there may be some relevence
    there maybe none but what it does confirm he is a good engineer, your in F1 (at what capacity I have no idea,chef for all I know) even you must agree even the lowly teams have good engineers.

    again I quote from you
    I think it's over-hyped, over-complicated and I don't rate the engineering as anything special. We just have different opinions that's all.

    yes we have different opinons but over hyped its been around 3 years and the Americans haven't even heard of it,over-complicated where, your in F1 should appear simple to you it does to me,most bikes are reletively simple IMHO,
    don't rate the engineering,whats wrong with it,everything looks well thought out to me,mud clearance,the biggripper idea is clever and functional,the seatpost clamp doesn't squeeze up the tube, nice touch,good access to all relevant pivot points for maintance,low standover height,well thought out cable and hose guides,full length seat tube,
    my only problem is the no bottle bosses but again nothings quite perfect.

    Your beef here seem's to have little to do with the bike but something else entirely.
    Last edited by 856er; 05-06-2006 at 06:12 AM.

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    1. Of course there is lots of marketing hype – but what mtb company doesn’t…? have you seem how much Specialised spend on convincing us their suspension is the best.? Ventana X5 (glorified Kona’s), RM ETSX (great bike IMO), Yeti 575 (now there is a noodle frame! But it is only meant for XC), Turner’s (glorified Specialised’s)… ridden them all… and all of them have hype as to why you should buy their bike… it’s called capitalism… welcome aboard…
    I agree with this to a point, but the Whyte 46 stands out head and shoulders as the king of hype in the UK. I really wouldn't mind if it could live up to it. For me it simply doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    2. Every magazine in the world uses riders not engineers to write their ‘reviews’. And obviously the technical detail on for example WHY a suspension goes up hills better is missing. Americans mags are the same as are the English and Australians and anybody else.
    Yes, so they should just tell us how the bikes ride and stop spending half the review talking rubbish about suspension design they know little about. It's painful for engineers to read!

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    3. Whyte does know something about suspension. His working in F1 backs that up.
    Probably right there, but F1 is a world apart from mtb. Very little relevance, but a good marketing angle nevertheless. Schumacher was going to win World Championships with or without the help of JW. In fact he has many times over.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    4. If your Whyte 46 made noises it is the fault of the mechanics in the shop not the bikes fault
    Possibly, but the rear swing arm was creaking a fair bit. Worn bearings perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    5. If you thought it was high off the ground – get it with the Alpine link – I don’t know why the British have it like that but it is popular.
    I rode it as designed by "Schumacher's F1 suspension guru" and needed a ladder to climb on it. Strange for an F1 designer to go for a high ride height

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    6. yes the early 04 Whyte’s had a problem with paint and finish but not build quality. All version 1’s have problems no matter what company/product.
    The one I rode was an 04. Paint finish was terrible and the welding was not of the highest standard. I do hope it improved later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    7. you say the frame is flexy… compared to what?! It is a welded monocoque… to get the same stiffness in tubing the frame has to be very heavy… that is why they used and still use it in F1 and other high end racing (yes, I appreciate they mostly use dedicated carbon processes now – btw they never did use Easton tubing at any time) …. And if you can weld straighter than a robotic arm every bike company in the world would be knocking at your door… The Maverick fork…. The front hub has a thru axle. The fork is has two massive cross bars. If anyone says it is not stiff they must be comparing it to a World Cup Boxer. I ride with a club. We swap rides as you do - the Maverick is by far the stiffest fork in the XC set. When we get to a Fox 36 with a thru axle there is some comparison – but the 36 is another half pound or more. What fork in this category do you think is stiffer?!
    You're talking rubbish about the weight / stiffness ratios of monocoques v tubular frames in reference to bike frames. It's a very close call in this specific application and both can work fine. The 46 rides like you would expect for its low weight i.e a bit flexible. I suspect the swing-arm is the real culprit here as on most Marins. The slightest wear on those Quad-links and it becomes a noodle. How many swingarms have been replaced under warranty? I know of 2 personally. My Ventana X5 (with old fashioned tubes) is miles stiffer and weighs about a pound more.

    Robotic welding is far from perfect. Quality of welding depends on many things, not just how straight it is.

    Mav fork needs a thru hub to achieve ANY stiffness at all down at the wheel hub. Remember it's an inverted design. I thought it was quite flexible for a 6" travel fork. I've got an RS Pike on my own bike (with a thru axle) and it feels much stiffer and just as plush. The Fox 36 is miles stiffer than the Mav. Compared to other 4" forks it's probably similar. I can't see the point in the Mav design personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    At the end of the day the quad link suspension is inherently efficient via its wheel path (check it out on a CAD program) that is not to say it is the most efficient – that award would have to go to something like RM’s ETSX and similar – but it is good. You can have 4in rising rate or 6in linear at the flick of QR for the types of riding you are doing today – brilliant and versatile. Same goes with the fork.
    Lets not go there, unless you have some engineering design qualifications or experience. Then we can discuss it if you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    Versatile. Light enough to race at 4in with closer geometry. Beefy enough to hit All Mountain style on 6in with relaxed geometry. What other bike comes close to this? This bike still sets the goal posts for AM bikes. It did when it won ‘Bike of the Year’ twice in a row and still does.
    Fair enough, not sure about the beefy part though. There are tons of bikes in this category now. It's even got it's own name - AM. Who gives a fcuk about "bike of the year"? It's about as relevant as "Car of the Year" or "Film of the Year". It's nice though if it makes you feel better about choosing it.

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by 856er
    Actually your not immune to it from your own comments.Quote,Having said all that it was on my test ride shortlist - perhaps by the time I rode it I was expecting too much

    you said you tested it (not lived with it) because of the hype and found (for you it wasn't what you wanted) no problem there,even your very little effort of an actual ride review was quite positive,
    I tested other bikes but I wouldn't dream of putting them down just because they weren't
    for me.
    I bought my 46 after 2 thorough tests and found it ideal for my needs,
    I also don't get this over complicated your on about,whats complicated about any of it
    its only a bike,maybe construction could be abit more complicated but thats certainly not reflected in the cost, infact like for like with other makes of similar spec if pretty cheap,

    as for the F1 connection come on you know as well as I it only gets mentioned because
    Jon was a former F1 suspension engineer at Benetton with M.Shumacher,there may be some relevence
    there maybe none but what it does confirm he is a good engineer, your in F1 (at what capacity I have no idea,chef for all I know) even you must agree even the lowly teams have good engineers.

    again I quote from you
    I think it's over-hyped, over-complicated and I don't rate the engineering as anything special. We just have different opinions that's all.

    yes we have different opinons but over hyped its been around 3 years and the Americans haven't even heard of it,over-complicated where, your in F1 should appear simple to you it does to me,most bikes are reletively simple IMHO,
    don't rate the engineering,whats wrong with it,everything looks well thought out to me,mud clearance,the biggripper idea is clever and functional,the seatpost clamp doesn't squeeze up the tube, nice touch,good access to all relevant pivot points for maintance,low standover height,well thought out cable and hose guides,full length seat tube,
    my only problem is the no bottle bosses but again nothings quite perfect.

    Your beef here seem's to have little to do with the bike but something else entirely.
    No, I just don't like the Whyte 46, that's all. Sorry, that's just how I feel about this bike and I thought I'd put my view across. You've said your bit too about how much you like it, so just let the OP make up his own mind. Don't worry about it.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Electric Panda
    Over-hyped?! what expensive pushbike isn't...

    over-complicated?! suspension 5 pivot points ?! not at all unusual...

    welded monocoques are stiffer and stronger for their weight but expensive to produce... though Whyte is not the only builder using it... (layered carbon is better but no one of the majors in bike land is using it yet in production - The Australian track team had some a few years back)

    2 dimensional?! sit behind a sprinter in a road race watch his frame and tell me about 2 dimensions in a bike frame...

    marketing... it is obvious from both out posts that we have extensive experience with bikes... I put rear suspensions into a CAD program before making my decision for example... IMO Whyte has come up with a design that is more effective, more versatile than any current AM bike for what I want ie it has to race as well as just ride around. My friends have other capable bikes. None of them come close to a Whyte in versatility or effectiveness. 6in of suspension is a major advantage in technical trails. There is not a lot of options here in a light bike. As well as that, not too many bikes allow a 4in setting that changes the geometry as well
    You're talking about the engineering here as if you have some engineering qualifications to back it up. Is this true or are you just a keen enthusiast? There is a big difference.

  22. #47
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    Quote
    Possibly, but the rear swing arm was creaking a fair bit. Worn bearings perhaps?

    No,thats just an incorrectly adjusted biggripper,the bobbin will creak in the biggripper
    if not set correctly.


    Quote
    I rode it as designed by "Schumacher's F1 suspension guru" and needed a ladder to climb on it. Strange for an F1 designer to go for a high ride height

    You rode 04 model,05 and 06 have far lower top tubes,
    high b/b was intentional you read the marketing (its your big beef)and new this in advance,why test if this goes against your riding style.


    Quote
    The one I rode was an 04. Paint finish was terrible and the welding was not of the highest standard. I do hope it improved later.

    Very very much so,maybe you should take a proper look this time.



    Quote
    Robotic welding is far from perfect. Quality of welding depends on many things, not just how straight it is.

    It is on mine 06 model,used to work with aluminium welding/welders,very impressed.

    Quote
    Mav fork needs a thru hub to achieve ANY stiffness at all down at the wheel hub. Remember it's an inverted design. I thought it was quite flexible for a 6" travel fork. I've got an RS Pike on my own bike (with a thru axle) and it feels much stiffer and just as plush. The Fox 36 is miles stiffer than the Mav. Compared to other 4" forks it's probably similar. I can't see the point in the Mav design personally.

    Personal preference on forks.
    I like mine but can't really comment to much on others.





    Quote
    There are tons of bikes in this category now. It's even got it's own name - AM. Who gives a fcuk about "bike of the year"? It's about as relevant as "Car of the Year" or "Film of the Year". It's nice though if it makes you feel better about choosing it.

    You can't blame Whyte for this,
    if someone votes there bike bike of the year what do they do
    say sorry don't want it.

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    No, I just don't like the Whyte 46, that's all. Sorry, that's just how I feel about this bike and I thought I'd put my view across. You've said your bit too about how much you like it, so just let the OP make up his own mind. Don't worry about it.
    Then I don't get it why go into all the marketing crap and long winded blah blah blah

    when all that was asked was a review of the bike (which I'd respect either way) and
    what its like to live with,

    you had a test ride and thats it with an 04 model 3 years ago,
    you've not owned or wanted one,
    but again I quote from you

    I'm sure it's a nice bike

    but you don't really know either way,you don't like the marketing the look of the engineering etc etc
    what can you possibly bring to this thread from a test ride of a 3 year old model when you have such inbread dislike of the whole Whyte setup,
    the bikes not for you simple no problem with that but the origional Q was what's it like as a LIGHT AM rig where have you addressed this Q
    apart from suggesting other bikes with a pound heavier s/arm or a different (heavier) fork
    things start to look like a heavy AM rig.

    And don't be sorry everyone's entitled to there own opinion and I have to respect yours,
    you don't like the 46 and thats fair enough but I think just a ride report would of been sufficent to get your views across without going off on one regarding personal views on marketing blah blah blah,and I also resent the view and I

    Quote
    ( many UK riders are gullible dorks)
    because your from the UK and could also be included in this quote.
    don't assume we all fall for marketing some of us do research and many test rides before parting with our hard earned cash.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by 856er
    Then I don't get it why go into all the marketing crap and long winded blah blah blah

    when all that was asked was a review of the bike (which I'd respect either way) and
    what its like to live with,

    you had a test ride and thats it with an 04 model 3 years ago,
    you've not owned or wanted one,
    but again I quote from you

    I'm sure it's a nice bike

    but you don't really know either way,you don't like the marketing the look of the engineering etc etc
    what can you possibly bring to this thread from a test ride of a 3 year old model when you have such inbread dislike of the whole Whyte setup,
    the bikes not for you simple no problem with that but the origional Q was what's it like as a LIGHT AM rig where have you addressed this Q
    apart from suggesting other bikes with a pound heavier s/arm or a different (heavier) fork
    things start to look like a heavy AM rig.

    And don't be sorry everyone's entitled to there own opinion and I have to respect yours,
    you don't like the 46 and thats fair enough but I think just a ride report would of been sufficent to get your views across without going off on one regarding personal views on marketing blah blah blah,and I also resent the view and I

    Quote
    ( many UK riders are gullible dorks)
    because your from the UK and could also be included in this quote.
    don't assume we all fall for marketing some of us do research and many test rides before parting with our hard earned cash.
    I made a point about the marketing hype because you insisted on quoting all the BS in your first post. Sounded like you believed it word for word. You could have just given a ride report too as you did later.

    I test rode the bike less than 18 months ago, not 3 years ago and it was a late 04 model. Is the 07 model out now or something? It is May 06 right? I tested it for a weekend on my local trails and that was enough to confirm it wasn't the bike for me. Just to re-iterate for you - it felt too high, too flexible and the quality didn't warrant parting with £2700.

    So what I can bring to this thread is don't believe all the hype, go and try it for yourself.

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by uktrailmonster
    I made a point about the marketing hype because you insisted on quoting all the BS in your first post. Sounded like you believed it word for word. You could have just given a ride report too as you did later.

    I test rode the bike less than 18 months ago, not 3 years ago and it was a late 04 model. Is the 07 model out now or something? It is May 06 right? I tested it for a weekend on my local trails and that was enough to confirm it wasn't the bike for me. Just to re-iterate for you - it felt too high, too flexible and the quality didn't warrant parting with £2700.

    So what I can bring to this thread is don't believe all the hype, go and try it for yourself.
    All I gave was info on tests and reviews (no links) no marketing BS (later gave a quad link info,some may find it interesting others like you think its BS,but who are we to believe,you? eh, why ), plus my own test/tests prior to and after ownership opinions,infact the only link was to ATB sales,think you would be best to re-read my first posting,I think you may be confusing me with someone else? only gave relevant info for someone interested in a certain bike,its always a good starting point prior to your first test ride,

    plus my opinion that importing would be too expensive and sizing is critical thus pointing out the folly of buying without trying,

    18 mths ago,so what it was an 04 model,things changed in 05 even the s/arm flex you mentioned was addressed,small but significant,then again some updates in 06 plus the option of the alpine link for all models,
    07 model where the hell did that come frombloody obvious I was refering to 3 model changes over the years,after cheap point scoring are we,
    maybe abit of research on the 3 years of subtle development wouldn't go amiss eh,

    don't believe the hype well yes thats all you can bring to the thread (but you can't blame Whyte for that,not to say there displeased with it but they didn't write it,the hype that is not there bike claims),also doesn't mean your right doesn't mean your wrong,
    then again maybe no one should believe ANY hype (and there is loads of that) regarding
    the Nomad,FSR's,Scott Genius,bikes with the DW linkage,etc etc etc:mad2: ,

    we all get it its not for you but that doesn't mean there's anything inherantly wrong with it,
    it does what it designed to do,obviously not designed to do what you want,
    it was to high for you but that was well documented from the start that it had a high b/b (yet even this has been addressed)and as you must of come across this is your research why did you even contemplate testing it ,you said I believed the hype but YOUR the one who new all the hype (Quote, Having said all that it was on my test ride shortlist - perhaps by the time I rode it I was expecting too much )
    because you said you were disappointed after your test as it didn't live upto what you had been led to expect,to me it just does what I want it to do,
    you have a problem with marketing and BS claims, you should start looking further afield
    and look into ALL the claims that are out there in mtb land.
    Last edited by 856er; 05-06-2006 at 05:00 PM.

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