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  1. #1
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    Why are dropper posts so bad?

    Actual, non-rhetorical question here.

    I was thinking today, as I prepared to return my 3rd dropper post this year for warranty repairs, that the technology used seems pretty well developed. I mean, air-sprung forks and shocks cycle thousands of times every ride and rarely fail. Same for hydro disc brakes. Hydraulic pistons are used in thousands of applications. So why does it seem like absolutely no one can pull off a dropper post that lasts more than 6 months? Is there some super-tough engineering there that I'm not considering? Is it such a small market that the designs are just bad?

  2. #2
    I Tried Them ALL... SuperModerator
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    Short answer....Giant Switch. All-mechanical operation. Heavy, but works with nary a hiccup, in 2.5 years.
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  3. #3
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    Because mine, the Hurricane Components "Elevator Shaft" has not come to market yet.
    I'm looking at all the problems on the current post's and addressing as many as I can, I'm also doing things that have not been done before.

  4. #4
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    Shorter answer: Gravity Dropper.

    Oldest is six ...no, seven years, and never a problem. Three others of various ages, also never had any issues.

    Very easy to maintain yourself (clean it once or twice a year; perhaps a new cable - for the remote-actuated versions- every two or three years); great customer service when you need anything.

    Enough stuff on modern rigs requires frequent babysitting. It's nice have a bit that just works, day in and day out, without having to dick with it.

  5. #5
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    Shorter answer: Specialized Command Post.

    All-mechanical with an air spring return. You can even lock it in place should the air spring fail. Very easy to maintain- just disassemble and re-grease.

    I've used one for almost 5 years with no problems at all.

  6. #6
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    It looks to me like the gravity dropper would be the most reliable. I have a buddy that's also ridden one for years with no issues. There really isn't much too them.......I wish they looked better and were lighter, but.....

  7. #7
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    another non-rhetorical question: is this your 3rd different brand/model post or did the same one fail 3 times and you're assuming all others are just as bad?

  8. #8
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    I've had failures on a Reverb, Reverb Stealth and KS LEV. So different brands and models, but certainly not a full spectrum of what the industry has to offer. I'm also about to send an unused KS LEV Integra back, because after talking to a buddy and seeing posts on this board it seems they really screwed up the design of the actuator at the bottom of the post. I just got a Thomson to replace the LEV, so here's hoping that works better.

    But I don't think I'm off base in saying dropper posts are, in general, the least-reliable part of a modern mountain bike. Just look around this board at all the issues....

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by deoreo View Post
    Shorter answer: Specialized Command Post.

    All-mechanical with an air spring return. You can even lock it in place should the air spring fail. Very easy to maintain- just disassemble and re-grease.

    I've used one for almost 5 years with no problems at all.
    This. I have a close to 3 year old Command Post Blacklite that gets used year round and I have had zero issues with it.
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  10. #10
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    Gravity dropper, I've had mine a year and a half without any issues. You can clean and maintain it at home without any special tools.

  11. #11
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    It's really disheartening to hear this (not that discussing it is bad or anything)... I can completely see how a dropper would improve my AM experience, but I have no patience for stuff that constantly needs to be in the shop.

    The divide between reviews and user feedback on some brands is also concerning. The Reverb Stealth gets amazing reviews, but I see comments everywhere that they are completely unreliable. Ibid on the Specialized mentioned above... even the user reviews on the company website aren't great. Bummer.
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  12. #12
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    Well, for what it's worth I've warrantied them every time they break, and to be honest I wouldn't consider building an AM or Trail bike without one. So I think they're incredibly useful and actually worth the trouble; I just wish they worked better!

    If you get one, make sure it's new and from a shop that will work with you if issues develop. Or better yet, get it from Competitive Cyclist (currently blowing out Thomsons!), they have a no-questions-asked lifetime return policy.

  13. #13
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    I've got a Thomson.. it's got some side to side play.. called thomson.. they were easy.. said sent it back and they will send me a new one.. pretty easy..

    They stated that they had contamination issues from Loctite Blue getting slick honey mixed in and causing issues. They fixed this per thomson..

    I haven't sent mine back yet.. i'm waiting for the season to end for me.. The top clamp works loose and it creaks.. hand tighten it on the trail then use a 32mm (IIRC) spanner and tighten it..

    i could not live without my dropper.. I love it. they will be a stock item on almost all bikes within a few years IMHO..

  14. #14
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    I have had a gravity dropper on my last bike and it lasted 5 years with no major problems except I broke one of the seat mount bolts on a hard land (probably my fault).
    I now have a Fox DOSS and it has been trouble free for the last 6 months of constant use.
    I recommend going with a gravity dropper, proven design, easy to maintain and great customer service.

  15. #15
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    2 years on my Command Post w/o an issue. I have actually never even done anything to it maintenance wise. Works great!
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  16. #16
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    I was under the impression that the GD was the lightest on the market except that carbon KS.

  17. #17
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    the OP had a great question. So, Hurricane Jeff, assuming "yours" will resolve the reliability issue, what were the trends that you found which keep dropper posts from meeting our reliability expectations in general.
    My direct experience includes:
    - Joblin (hydraulic, lost air spring, gets sticky especially when cold)
    - AMP (mechanical ball lock, eventually marred up slider and lost smooth operation)
    - Gravity Dropper (good after 1 year and counting)
    - just bought a KS Lev Integra (for future bike, I have not installed this)

  18. #18
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    Love my LEV Integra... It was a tad finicky to set up, mostly because I'm a relative noob and didn't have a great cable route. It's been hassle free since the first week I got it in September though.

  19. #19
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    It could be something you're doing.

    My KS Lev didn't work right until I talked to the manufacturer at Sea Otter.
    The bike shop had installed the cable backwards, which is pretty common.

    Mine has worked really well since then.

  20. #20
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    The issue with the Lev Integra (not the normal LEV) is that the design of the actuator at the bottom of the post (inside the frame) is faulty. The cable is fixed to the bottom of the post, and does not move; the actuation is achieved by pulling the cable from the bar, which has the effect of moving the housing along the fixed cable. So it's the position of the housing that makes it work. The problem with this is that if you have a bike design where there's friction on the housing (e.g. the housing goes through a small rubber grommet at the bottom of the seat tube) then it's super tough to get the housing to run in such a way that it'll actuate reliably and smoothly. And if you raise or lower your seat post at all, it screws everything up.

  21. #21
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    i have a Command post Blacklight and have not had a single issue. i have taken some bad crashes as well.

  22. #22
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    All the above plus more. I've been working on my design for a long time, I'm the one who designed the first modern day dropper post (HiteRite and Power post were to different animals all together) back in 2000, I could tell you the whole story, as I have done on other occasions and forums, but I save it when my post is finished . I have changed my designs over the years and have pretty much settled on my current design, with a few tweaks.
    As soon as I get finished with more than a rough prototype, I'll post it here.

    just noticed there is a post below originally from 2011 in regards to how I came about the dropper seat post idea........

  23. #23
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    i just have a reg post. i put my seat a little lower, overall and just ride. it may not... blah blah blah

    but who cares. im not trying to save the world by how i ride

  24. #24
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    My KS eTen has been flawless so far. I got mine right when they came out and its been problem free.
    I like to fart when I'm in front of you on a climb

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Actual, non-rhetorical question here.

    I was thinking today, as I prepared to return my 3rd dropper post this year for warranty repairs, that the technology used seems pretty well developed. I mean, air-sprung forks and shocks cycle thousands of times every ride and rarely fail. Same for hydro disc brakes. Hydraulic pistons are used in thousands of applications. So why does it seem like absolutely no one can pull off a dropper post that lasts more than 6 months? Is there some super-tough engineering there that I'm not considering? Is it such a small market that the designs are just bad?
    You are just buying the wrong ones.

    Gravity Dropper. Mine is 8 years old. Still works great. Next to zero maintenance needed. One of the lighter ones out there as well.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    Because mine, the Hurricane Components "Elevator Shaft" has not come to market yet.
    I'm looking at all the problems on the current post's and addressing as many as I can, I'm also doing things that have not been done before.
    Please make a version with 140-170 mm of drop!
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  27. #27
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    Another command post here, working great for more than a season.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprungShoulders View Post
    Shorter answer: Gravity Dropper.

    Oldest is six ...no, seven years, and never a problem. Three others of various ages, also never had any issues.

    Very easy to maintain yourself (clean it once or twice a year; perhaps a new cable - for the remote-actuated versions- every two or three years); great customer service when you need anything.

    Enough stuff on modern rigs requires frequent babysitting. It's nice have a bit that just works, day in and day out, without having to dick with it.
    Yea I've had a kind shock lev and the gravity dropper.

    The kind shock got a 1/2 cm of play after a year or so then died after sitting too long then came back to life but still has a small amount of "suspension" in it.
    The Gravity Dropper is bullet proof. I have frequent OTBs and other wrecks. Ive seen the bike go ass over tits and hit smack on the seat and it didn't affect it.

    I ride with about 5 or seven other people and have seen all the posts out there (major ones no one i know has bought the"black mamba) One gravity dropper has been around 8 frig-gen years and the only work done on it was a new cable, which is a standard derailleur cable. Only the rock shock reverb holds a candle to the gravity dropper but its only 2 years old and has yet to prove its self.

    The other thing the gravity dropper has over other posts is very fast movement. any air or oil post is slow to drop and slow to return.It also comes in 27.2 size. which is the size i bought and with just a few shims i can use it on any frame!

    After all these years Gravity dropper is still number one and its one of the first designs. There are countless positive reviews all over the inter webs. Not to mention loads of negative reviews on other posts.

    I understand that someone might wanna buy a cheaper post and cross their finger for it to work good, I did. but After owning the Gravity dropper its worth every penny and its something you'll only need to buy once.

    So if you did any searching and are still confused about dropper post reliability its your own damn fault

  29. #29
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    The only dropper I've owned is a crank bros Joplin 3, and I wouldn't recommend it even to my worst enemy. It's seems to only be good for a dozen rides, I will certainly be purchasing a different brand in the near future.

  30. #30
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    Ive been lucky. 2012 RS Reverb, going strong. It was a little slow one time, I checked the air pressure, lost 100 psi. Pumped it back up and its still working

  31. #31
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    I some advice from a mechanic friend with tons of experience rebuilding droppers, forks etc. He said he thinks the main cause of failure with hydraulic droppers is the seat post clamp. Even over tightening that doesn't cause any issues with the smoothness of the post going up and down can deform and ovalize the barrel, and that leads to seal failures. Ditto for repeated clamping and unclamping. He said you should NEVER run a quick release collar with a dropper, as it's just too easy to over-tighten. Use a standard collar, friction paste, and set your torque with a torque wrench. All of which makes sense...

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I some advice from a mechanic friend with tons of experience rebuilding droppers, forks etc. He said he thinks the main cause of failure with hydraulic droppers is the seat post clamp. Even over tightening that doesn't cause any issues with the smoothness of the post going up and down can deform and ovalize the barrel, and that leads to seal failures. Ditto for repeated clamping and unclamping. He said you should NEVER run a quick release collar with a dropper, as it's just too easy to over-tighten. Use a standard collar, friction paste, and set your torque with a torque wrench. All of which makes sense...
    If that is true, a simple solution would be to cut a cheap seatpost to the proper length and place it on the bottom of the dropper as a stopper. Then the clamp shouldnt need to be torqued as much to stop slipping down. Either that, of manufacturers should use thicker gauge tubes for the main tube.

  33. #33
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    Loved my KS i900. Sold it with my last bike. Wouldn't hesitate on another KS

  34. #34
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    This may sound crazy but I'm still riding my 5 year old Crank Brothers Joplin! It calved after about a year and got a factory rebuild. Since then about 500 rides and it just keeps on going. We ride steep rolling terrain and the seat could be up and down as many as 30 times during a ride. My buddy has been through a Lev, 2 Reverbs, 2 Kind shocks and a couple of Joplins in the time I've been riding my Joplin. What's my point? The good isn't so good and the bad isn't so bad ... Dropper seat posts are here to stay. Like computers they are continuously improving. I rode the Giant dropper post on a demo Trance SX at MBO last summer and it worked just fine. I wouldn't hesitate to purchase any of new posts. LEV is probably my preference. My wife and daughter both have KS900 and have had no issues.

  35. #35
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    Interesting to hear the good reviews for the Command Post. I`ve had the original and the Blacklite and both have had the same issue…broken collets. Otherwise, i`ve had no problems.

  36. #36
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    As far as how easy it should be to get right, this is not the same thing as shocks and/or disc brakes. When this many companies struggle, there is usually some reason behind it.

    I think most of the problems have to do with trying to make them infinitely adjustable and/or return without the butt-tap. The original one (GD) does neither of these and works very well. It was the markets desire to add these other features that has caused so many problems.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachariah View Post
    Short answer....Giant Switch. All-mechanical operation. Heavy, but works with nary a hiccup, in 2.5 years.
    Mechanical is no assurance of reliability, as the Crank Brothers Kronolog has so craptacularly proven.

    Good to hear about the Giant, though
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  38. #38
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    GD is a mechanical design, while newer designs (KS, Reverb, Thomson) are hydraulic. They hydro posts are actually pretty similar to a single-stanchion fork with a lock-out, per my limited understanding. They have oil and air and dampers in them, and their function depends on the integrity of their seals.

    Hydros gain you infinite adjustability. But because they are dependent on seals rather than mechanical locks, they are (seemingly) more failure prone. What seems weird to me is that forks rarely fail, and all the heavy equipment currently working outside my office window runs on super-reliable hydraulics. So why do droppers fail so often?

    Per my post above, I wonder if the seat post clamp is a big part of it. Putting a constriction point around a hydraulic piston isn't going to help the seals any, and of course everyone wants their post to be light so the main cylinders are thin. Perhaps a recipe for failure?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I wonder if the seat post clamp is a big part of it. Putting a constriction point around a hydraulic piston isn't going to help the seals any, and of course everyone wants their post to be light so the main cylinders are thin. Perhaps a recipe for failure?
    Wow, I never considered that possibility. I think you're right. Physically, all the frequent failures make a lot of sense now, all things considered. A slightly deformed seal will fail prematurely. Perhaps friction paste, a tall, non-QR seatpost clamp (to spread out the force as much as possible) and a low clamp bolt torque of ~4Nm would prevent premature dropper post seal wear. I will be recommending that to all my users of dropper posts.

  40. #40
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    Piling on. Gravity Dropper posts since 2005-ish.

    They just plain work well.

  41. #41
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    FWIW when I first got my eTen I tighten the post clamp to much and it stuck, back it off just bit and it worked fine. I since removed my QR clamp in favor of a tiny carbon fiber one. I put the clamp just tight enough to not slip during normal riding and its never stuck since that first time I over tightened it some.

    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I wonder if the seat post clamp is a big part of it. Putting a constriction point around a hydraulic piston isn't going to help the seals any, and of course everyone wants their post to be light so the main cylinders are thin. Perhaps a recipe for failure?
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  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by deoreo View Post
    Shorter answer: Specialized Command Post.

    All-mechanical with an air spring return. You can even lock it in place should the air spring fail. Very easy to maintain- just disassemble and re-grease.

    I've used one for almost 5 years with no problems at all.
    Agreed. I too have the Command Post (one year now and 1600 dirt miles on it) and it has not let me down. Not once.

  43. #43
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    Bought three Reverbs for three bikes and never had an issue in three years of running. *looks around for wood...*

  44. #44
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    The Elevator Shaft will have up to 150mm of adjustment, anything more than that makes for a very long seat post, the stanchion tube have to be longer than the sliders, usually 50-75mm+, add all that up, 170+170+75=415mm total length, alot of bikes don't have enough insertion length to accommodate that much adjustment, it's not impossible, but it's something I won't do.

  45. #45
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    I raced BMX and even got on a team called Fast Racing while I was in Tokyo for a while.
    In BMX the seat is always fully down to not get in the way and provide maximum control over the bike. When I switched over to Mountain Biking, the long uphill and X-country sections had me raising the seat half the time with the quick release. I found stopping to change the seat height took away momentum from my ride, so I set out to put together a true MTB seatpost that would have all the details a mountain biker would want. Making sure the adjusting-post would always fully lower to two inches or less from rails to frame, was the base priority.

    After years of designing, prototyping and patent writing I managed to get the RASE, Black Mamba post on the market. Here I was the designer within a manufacturing co..
    This design gave 9 inches of adjustability and was highly reliable yet I knew the post could be even better. I left the company I started to develop a post that does even more. From my new designs I have been working with my new design group for over a year, going over every detail to ensure maximum performance.

    At just over 6 feet tall, I use 9 inches of seatpost height from the rails to the frame. Our new RACE 10 seatpost will have the standard 10 inches(255 mm) of height adjustability,
    found similarly on a standard 385 -400 mm seatpost. This post will be the first Full-Range adjusting seatpost on the market. This post will always lower to 1.5 inches from seat rails frame and then be pre-set to stop right at a riders exact preferred max height.

    This new system uses a compact and highly reliable mechanical lock. The post itself is one piece, 3D forged from 7075 Al, with a two bolt clamp design, that fits into the assembly. All the details take a while to work through so they work well together.
    The post has taken a while to go over every detail, yet we are close. Adjusting posts presently on the market are all Semi-Adjusting that require the post to be lifted up from their fully lowering ability, to set their max height. This new "RACE 10 Seatpost" looks to be highly reliable and with 10 inches of adjustability, it will be the worlds first actually Fully-Adjustable, Full-Range MTB Seatpost.

    It will take a while more to tune in the prototypes, the post will be made in the USA with all sorts of advanced machining and mechanical details to maximize Full-Adjustability, reliability and light weight, so the price will be around $400.

    We decided to work ahead of the rest of the industry to simply make the best possible MTB seatpost. This post will require a completely open/straight seat tube to fit just over a standard 400 mm seatpost. The cable routing will go internally and it looks like 31.6mm x 400mm will be the main product to fit in the mechanics and make for a very strong main post. Be sure to ask your favorite frame maker to forget about funky bends in the seat tube and go back to a fully straight(at least interior) seat tube.

    Hopefully, we'll have this out in under a year.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    The issue with the Lev Integra (not the normal LEV) is that the design of the actuator at the bottom of the post (inside the frame) is faulty. The cable is fixed to the bottom of the post, and does not move; the actuation is achieved by pulling the cable from the bar, which has the effect of moving the housing along the fixed cable. So it's the position of the housing that makes it work. The problem with this is that if you have a bike design where there's friction on the housing (e.g. the housing goes through a small rubber grommet at the bottom of the seat tube) then it's super tough to get the housing to run in such a way that it'll actuate reliably and smoothly. And if you raise or lower your seat post at all, it screws everything up.
    That's just one the of the head scratchingly bad design flaws out there. Everything else about this thing makes me think "that's the one I want!", but hopefully they'll get that fixed before I actually buy next year. It's even odder that they seem to have had a clamp on the cable when they first released the post over two years ago - KindShock Unveils New LEV Integra Dropper Post, Along With LEV

    I wonder why they removed it.
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Mumphry;10880263It's even odder that they seem to have had a clamp on the cable when they first released the post over two years ago - [url=http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/09/22/kindshock-unveils-new-lev-integra-dropper-post-along-with-lev/
    KindShock Unveils New LEV Integra Dropper Post, Along With LEV[/url]

    I wonder why they removed it.
    Huh, yeah, that's weird alright. To be honest I don't see how adding a clamp to the current design would improve it all that much; the little metal gizmo that the cable goes through still has to move, which means the housing still has to move in and out of the bottom of the seat tube. I wonder if that was a mock-up of a totally different trigger mechanism that never saw the light of day? Personally I'm hoping the Thomson stealth post comes out soon....

  48. #48
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    I wonder why gravity dropper doesn't include more position options? They could have something like half inch intervals just by drilling additional holes into the inner post. Maybe it would compromise strength?

    If they redesigned the boot to be more aesthetically pleasing, I bet it would sell much better. Also a comfier lever.

    I went from an old turbo, to a turbo LP and the action is a lot smoother, much easier to find the 1" drop now.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    Huh, yeah, that's weird alright. To be honest I don't see how adding a clamp to the current design would improve it all that much; the little metal gizmo that the cable goes through still has to move, which means the housing still has to move in and out of the bottom of the seat tube. I wonder if that was a mock-up of a totally different trigger mechanism that never saw the light of day? Personally I'm hoping the Thomson stealth post comes out soon....
    There are plenty of people here that know a heck of a lot more than me, but when I watch the video below it looks to me like the lever is acting only on the cable and not the housing. The movement of the housing on the actuator at the base of the post seems to be incidental. I understand how improperly setting that up would be easy and would negatively effect performance, but it also seems like fixing the housing in a stationary position would solve the problem. Again, this is just my take based on watching this video - KS LEV Integra Installation - YouTube
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  50. #50
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    I put 2 years on a command blacklite with zero problems. That said, i just switched to a Lev because the lever action is so much lighter. I also didn't like hunting for the mid position on the command post.

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by RASER View Post
    I raced BMX and even got on a team called Fast Racing while I was in Tokyo for a while.
    In BMX the seat is always fully down to not get in the way and provide maximum control over the bike. When I switched over to Mountain Biking, the long uphill and X-country sections had me raising the seat half the time with the quick release. I found stopping to change the seat height took away momentum from my ride, so I set out to put together a true MTB seatpost that would have all the details a mountain biker would want. Making sure the adjusting-post would always fully lower to two inches or less from rails to frame, was the base priority.

    After years of designing, prototyping and patent writing I managed to get the RASE, Black Mamba post on the market. Here I was the designer within a manufacturing co..
    This design gave 9 inches of adjustability and was highly reliable yet I knew the post could be even better. I left the company I started to develop a post that does even more. From my new designs I have been working with my new design group for over a year, going over every detail to ensure maximum performance.

    At just over 6 feet tall, I use 9 inches of seatpost height from the rails to the frame. Our new RACE 10 seatpost will have the standard 10 inches(255 mm) of height adjustability,
    found similarly on a standard 385 -400 mm seatpost. This post will be the first Full-Range adjusting seatpost on the market. This post will always lower to 1.5 inches from seat rails frame and then be pre-set to stop right at a riders exact preferred max height.

    This new system uses a compact and highly reliable mechanical lock. The post itself is one piece, 3D forged from 7075 Al, with a two bolt clamp design, that fits into the assembly. All the details take a while to work through so they work well together.
    The post has taken a while to go over every detail, yet we are close. Adjusting posts presently on the market are all Semi-Adjusting that require the post to be lifted up from their fully lowering ability, to set their max height. This new "RACE 10 Seatpost" looks to be highly reliable and with 10 inches of adjustability, it will be the worlds first actually Fully-Adjustable, Full-Range MTB Seatpost.

    It will take a while more to tune in the prototypes, the post will be made in the USA with all sorts of advanced machining and mechanical details to maximize Full-Adjustability, reliability and light weight, so the price will be around $400.

    We decided to work ahead of the rest of the industry to simply make the best possible MTB seatpost. This post will require a completely open/straight seat tube to fit just over a standard 400 mm seatpost. The cable routing will go internally and it looks like 31.6mm x 400mm will be the main product to fit in the mechanics and make for a very strong main post. Be sure to ask your favorite frame maker to forget about funky bends in the seat tube and go back to a fully straight(at least interior) seat tube.

    Hopefully, we'll have this out in under a year.
    What if i cant handel 10 inches? ...

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrewBird View Post
    I some advice from a mechanic friend with tons of experience rebuilding droppers, forks etc. He said he thinks the main cause of failure with hydraulic droppers is the seat post clamp. Even over tightening that doesn't cause any issues with the smoothness of the post going up and down can deform and ovalize the barrel, and that leads to seal failures. Ditto for repeated clamping and unclamping. He said you should NEVER run a quick release collar with a dropper, as it's just too easy to over-tighten. Use a standard collar, friction paste, and set your torque with a torque wrench. All of which makes sense...
    This, IMHO, is excellent advice.

    I'm two full years into my Reverb without issue. At 6'4", 230 lbs, I purposely waited for the technology to mature knowing the added stresses my arse was going to place on any seatpost, so I waited for first release of the improved 2012 model. Within a month of owning this, I knew it was the most significant component upgrade I'd experienced in years. With many of the models mentioned here, you will easily find a lot of info about those with issues, but not much about the many, many satisfied users. Whenever I consider all the things my Reverb does, and does very well (support nearly all my weight on an aluminum post less than 1" in diameter, usually at its maximum extension, with instant, precise, infinite adjustment at the touch of my thumb and a bump of my aforementioned arse, all the while operating in what can only be described by any engineer as a hostile environment), I am simply amazed. This is a pretty complex component in a small package. I suspect most of the issues are borne out of a "set it and forget it" mentality. Serious design flaws aside, a basic understanding of mechanical concepts and theories goes a long way when it comes to successful installation and operation of any brand dropper post.

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by RASER View Post
    This new "RACE 10 Seatpost" looks to be highly reliable and with 10 inches of adjustability, it will be the worlds first actually Fully-Adjustable, Full-Range MTB Seatpost.

    We decided to work ahead of the rest of the industry to simply make the best possible MTB seatpost. be to fit just over a standard 400 mm post.This post will require a completely open/straight seat tube. The cable routing will go internally and it looks like 31.6mm x 400mm will be the main product to fit in the mechanics and make for a very strong main post. Be sure to ask your favorite frame maker to forget about funky bends in the seat tube and go back to a fully straight(at least interior) seat tube.

    Hopefully, we'll have this out in under a year.
    Overall great news. However, good luck with what i put in bold type. Much to my chagrin almost every new bike model, especially 650b, have curvy seat tubes with only about 6" of room for current 150 mm or less dropper posts. Cant even drop a standard post real low. Notable exception Rocky Mounatin Altitude which is why i just bought one.
    So if I call Santa Cruz, and say, "hey all your new models have a curve halfway down teh seat tube; can you redesign and retool everything to i can put Rasers new seatpost in there", how much luck do you think id have?
    sadly, raser, i think your market for these will be limited. Sounds like exactly the adjustable seatpost ive been waiting for though, hope it will fit my altitude!
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  54. #54
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    Unfortunately, I think you're right. I also think this post is going to be limited to 26 and 650b since every 29er I can think of has a curved seat tube. I don't think this is likely to change any time soon either, owing to shorter chainstays and better seating positions.
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  55. #55
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    It is interesting that with the many Semi-Adjusting seat posts on the market, most frame companies have decided to make use of that 6" and add some curve to their frames seat tube.

    The 29ers do seem to push for the most curve as they try to get the rear axle back in toward the Bottom Bracket ( BB), yet the Santa Cruzes don't seem to have much of an added curve and the Scotts even seem to keep an open, straight interior seat tube by letting the front of the seat tube continue/connect ahead of the BB and then expand the seat tube back to form a good connection with the BB. I think this kind of design is the future of the Mountain Bike.

    Just as frame companies are now building around the present Semi-Adjusting seatpost, once this Fully Adjusting seatpost is on the market, I think frame companies will be happy to re-design their frames and upgrade to deliver a new advanced frame design, as advancement creates sales for one.

    So, yes if you are looking forward to a Full-Range seatpost with a complete range of seat height options then that would be great if you could give your favorite frame co. the "heads up" that you are in favor of this frame design that generally accommodates a lowered 31.6 x 425 mm seatpost that has internal cable routing.

    Just to clarify, the "RACE 10" will use a standard 400 mm seatpost in the assembly to always lower the seat to 1.5" from seat rails to the cycle frame, then have a range of 10"(255 mm) of rise. The post has the option to lock into position every half inch for 20 possible locking positions. You have the option of using less then the full 10 inches, as the post is then able to be pre-set to stop at exactly any height , to set a max rise height of 9.2 inches, 7.8 inches, 6 inches or wherever fits best.

  56. #56
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    I had the rase black mamba post and found it pretty reliable for four years or so until the top of the seatpost separated from the rest of the post where the two bolts attach said pieces. Fortunately, I was not on a narrow trail next to a big dropoff, or this could have been catastrophic. Other than this and the prominent play, I loved having 9 inches of drop...at 7 ft tall, I take all the drop I can get.

    Now i have an origin8 ultim8 post at 425 mm with 4.5 inch drop which I use on my kona process and a KS supernatural on my ventana el cap/Zeus. Both have been solid for the 4 months or so I've had them. Great value on the origin8...

  57. #57
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    What is your definition of "fully adjustable"? Every adjustable seat post I have made, and the ones from other companies have infinite adjustment. I think that 10" of adjustment might be desirable to a few, but believe its an over kill for most...just saying..

  58. #58
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    I appreciate always having the capacity to fully lower the seatpost to less then two inches from the seat rails to the bicycle frame. When your biking down a rocky trail
    and really don't want to be bucked over the handlebars, I think most people prefer to fully lower their seat.

    The present Semi-Adjusting seatposts only have 5 or 6 inches of adjustment so that the rider can use the few more inches to lift up the post and set the riders personal max height. This system lifts up the seatpost assembly and takes away the riders ability to now fully lower the seat, and therefore I think these are a bad type of design.

    There should be many positions that the post can quickly lock into, yet I don't think having a post be micro-adjustable like the hydraulic posts is exactly helpful.

    What is important is that a person is then able to have the post rise up to the riders exact, preferred max height for power and efficiency. At just over 6 ft tall I actually use 9.5 inches of a standard post. On the RACE 10 with an included collar section I would use 9 inches. Some people may use more, some less. I'm thinking most people with a preferable bike set up will use between 7 inches and 10 inches, of which the new RACE 10 will be able to be pre-set to stop/be limited to whatever height under 10" the rider wants.

    Full-Range means any rider will have the full range of height options, without compromise.

  59. #59
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    Actually your question should be, why are they so good?

    I have a specialized command post and it has three different levels and it's perfect for me. All the way down for steep descending; halfway for casual and racing dh; and all the way up for climbing.

    Any more than that and it would be overkill in my opinion.

    Check out my write-up here:

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  60. #60
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    Well my seat post designs and many (most) others, do have infinite adjustment between their set travel(if a post has 6" of adjustment, you can put the saddle anywhere between those six inches) and the post will return to your desired height. I respect your feelings as to you needing a post with 10" of adjustment, but think that it is a very small market for those that need that much also. I'm 6' and never had the need to drop my post down below 5", I think my seat post is exposed somewhere about 9" from top of the frame to the seat rails.
    To get 10" of adjustment, your post is going to be something like 550mm+ total length, counting the seat clamp? unless your using a telescoping tube inside the stanchion tube, I couldn't think it could be any shorter, right? and if you are using a telescoping tube, your just adding more to go wrong.
    Good luck with your post, but I think your hitting a very limited market, and as far as frame makers changing their designs to accommodate a seat post as long as yours needs to be, don't think thats going to happen, but like I said, good luck.

  61. #61
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    Raser, i think if you top the post out at 7" of drop you will have a much larger market including people like myself who would like more than the current 5-6" and it will still fit many more frames. Even I think 10" of drop is overkill. Or make 2 versions one an "extra long" 9-10" for tall people
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  62. #62
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    If Yao Ming wants a dropper post Ill know exactly where to send him. But with only ten inces of adjustability it may not be enough. Maby have a 24" telescoping seat post with holes every quater inch

  63. #63
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    I've been riding a Reverb since they've come out. I've had it warrantied 4 times, then the next time it broke after that I decided I would start fixing it myself as I hate waiting for warrantied parts. This is the one area where I find SRAM separates themselves from the other dropper posts out there.

    First and foremost, I don't claim that the Reverb is a better design. It probably isn't and I wouldn't doubt that it fails more often than the other options available. I've also used a Specialized command post and decided I prefer the versatility of a hydraulic post. Being able to stop the post at any point and not needing to find the click in spot really helps out my rides where I'm located (constant rolling hills). It is especially useful when I don't know the trail so I do not have any predetermined points that I know of where I will want to drop the post.

    I've wanted to try a LEV or Thomson's new post to see if they are more reliable than the Reverb, but both of them refuse to allow the user to service the hydraulics. This wouldn't be a problem with me if failure was a rarity, but documented cases here on MTBr prove that to be otherwise.

    Having my Reverb fully disassembled makes me wonder about the OP's original question. I find it odd that the failure rate is so high and yet hydraulics are very reliable in other industries (as pointed out by other posters). I'm not a hydraulic expert by any means, but I do wonder just how much stress these little o-rings can take that SRAM uses (and I would venture a bet that KS, Thomson and others use). I don't think forks and rear shocks see the same pressures that these dropper posts do. We pump 250psi into dropper posts at full extension. I would guess they are in the range of 400psi (I'd have to calculate or put a gauge on the post) when they are fully dropped as that air chamber volume shrinks (an already small air volume to begin with). In addition, forks and rear shocks get the benefit of sag and the fact that their o-rings are meant to be dynamic at all times. Any bump is going to make the fork or shock move a bit. We wouldn't want that with our seatposts. That would be hella annoying. We expect the seatpost to stay perfectly static no matter the added pressure from any bump. All that excess stress has to go somewhere, and in my opinion, it all goes into a few o-rings with a cross sectional area of 1.5mm to 3mm. That is awfully small in my opinion for the stresses that they are seeing. Ever notice how fork manufacturers warn against taking bumps on their suspension when the fork has a true lockout? I assume it is the same type of technology in the dropper posts. A hit to a fork that is truly locked out would probably blow an o-ring.

    I think manufacturers have to start looking at 2 things here. One would be material of construction of the o-rings. Again, I'm not an expert. I have no idea what that material would be. I do know that buna-N is super cheap (hence probably the reason why they use it). The problem is that buna-N doesn't seem to stand up well to these kinds of stresses. If material of construction is not an option due to cost, then maybe consider using larger inner tubes and thicker o-rings? Something with substantially more material? I'm all for increasing the surface area of seal contact. That sounds like it should help. For example, there is a reason Fox uses a quad ring right above the dust seal. It is extra surface area for more protection to prevent any dust getting in or oil getting out. Following that train of thought, I've measured all the o-rings that typically go bad in my Reverb. Sure enough, there are quad ring o-rings made that are the same size. The next time I blow an o-ring in my Reverb, I'm going to change them all to quad rings to see if they last a bit longer. They certainly couldn't do any worse (or at least, I don't think they could).

    I think the rest of the hydraulic post manufacturers should get on board with what SRAM is doing for those of us that are DIY. Warranties are great, but waiting sucks ass.

  64. #64
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    Are they still using pretty gnarly suspension fluid in the Reverbs? On the 2011's the fumes would make me high as a kite. I don't think I could ever work on them unless it was a really well ventilated area, but I might consider them again if they are publishing the service manuals.

  65. #65
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    The bottle I got with my 2012 Stealth reeks.
    The oil I use when doing my forks don't smell as bad.

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    Why are dropper posts so bad?

    Interesting. The rockshox oil has always had a sort of specific smell to them, but nothing I would consider to be so unpleasant that I couldn't work with them. Certainly nothing to the extent of a strong smelling epoxy or an organic chemical. RS uses 2.5 wt oil. Smells just like their 5wt. Or at least it does to me. I could have a messed up nose. I don't know.

    Yes, SRAM released every last detail you could ever want to know about the Reverb about 6 months ago. Manuals and videos! It is very well done and makes fixing a blown seal very easy to do. That is what has kept me using a reverb. The only thing I've been wanting SRAM to do is offer a setback saddle clamp. The saddle clamp on the Reverb is actually threaded into the post. I don't know why they haven't developed a setback clamp. It's be easy for them to do.

    As an extra hint, the parts that wear out the quickest are the o-rings that come in the basic service kit. Those are the inner seal head o-rings and charger bushing. Everything else lasts a very long time. The basic kit is only $8. You can also just measure the o-rings and buy them from theoringstore.com, but eventually you'll need that replacement bushing in the basic kit.

  67. #67
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    The new RACE 10 is designed to be only 425mm when the main seatpost is fully lowered into the assembly. This design is very compact but very solid as the main post used in the assembly is a standard sized 27.2mm x 400mm. The main post is therefore moved into position and range almost just like a standard seatpost, with a limiter to adjust the maximum rise.

    The Semi-Adjusting posts on the market are all also 400mm, 10" - 11"length posts,
    it's just that the bottom half of the post does not adjust on-the-fly, to therefore keep the cyclist from fully lowering the seat by a good amount. I like to ride rather technical trails, or at least I like to ride all kinds of new trails that might have some steep, rocky section that I just want to be able to fully lower my seat for. With the seat fully lowered I also have much greater confidence to have a good time catching air off of rocks and things, rather then worrying about getting bucked.

    Good luck Hurricane with your designs, as they will work with almost all bikes. It's great to go over what elements people are really looking for in an adjusting MTB seatpost. Designing towards the future is possibly daring, but that seems to be a good way to go.

  68. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by RASER View Post
    It is interesting that with the many Semi-Adjusting seat posts on the market, most frame companies have decided to make use of that 6" and add some curve to their frames seat tube.

    The 29ers do seem to push for the most curve as they try to get the rear axle back in toward the Bottom Bracket ( BB), yet the Santa Cruzes don't seem to have much of an added curve and the Scotts even seem to keep an open, straight interior seat tube by letting the front of the seat tube continue/connect ahead of the BB and then expand the seat tube back to form a good connection with the BB. I think this kind of design is the future of the Mountain Bike.

    Just as frame companies are now building around the present Semi-Adjusting seatpost, once this Fully Adjusting seatpost is on the market, I think frame companies will be happy to re-design their frames and upgrade to deliver a new advanced frame design, as advancement creates sales for one.

    So, yes if you are looking forward to a Full-Range seatpost with a complete range of seat height options then that would be great if you could give your favorite frame co. the "heads up" that you are in favor of this frame design that generally accommodates a lowered 31.6 x 425 mm seatpost that has internal cable routing.

    Just to clarify, the "RACE 10" will use a standard 400 mm seatpost in the assembly to always lower the seat to 1.5" from seat rails to the cycle frame, then have a range of 10"(255 mm) of rise. The post has the option to lock into position every half inch for 20 possible locking positions. You have the option of using less then the full 10 inches, as the post is then able to be pre-set to stop at exactly any height , to set a max rise height of 9.2 inches, 7.8 inches, 6 inches or wherever fits best.
    Can you adjust the return rate on your post?
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    The ongoing issues with the Reverb have brought me to hate mine. Waste of money IMHO. Too much upkeep to be worth it.

  70. #70
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    If you need 10" of adjustment, you need a bigger frame.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Our thoughts with the return rate is that the post should rise up as quickly as possible but a damper should slow it down just enough to make it seem less jarring and risky, any other speed does not make sense to us.

    Standard 380-400mm posts and most Semi-Adjusting posts all adjust 10 to 11 inches.
    Similarly, the RASE 10 also offers this capacity. The difference with the RACE 10 in that it will still fully lower on-the-fly from this height for max control and fun.

  72. #72
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    If someone made a dropper thet could drop quicky without weighting it and rise just as quick and easily they would have something.

  73. #73
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    I don't even see pro DHers with their seats that low (10" below pedaling height), in fact its actually harder to ride with absolutely no seat near your arse.

  74. #74
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    That's a good observation that pro DHers generally keep their seats a bit up from totally down. Down Hill racing is a unique situation where the rider is going for a good amount of time with their legs bent to absorb shock, which can be very exhausting. The DH riders try to strike a balance between exhausted legs and total control.

    Yet, in any situation where the technical challenge becomes greater, people put their seat fully down, if they can. Note anyone doing jumps of any sort usually has their seat fully lowered. BMX is already on a small bike, with almost no terrain challenge, and their seats are always totally down. They even make MTB bikes with no seats at all to maximize control. With a fully lowered seat, you can just step off the bike, with almost no worries of getting bucked or tangled in it.

  75. #75
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    You keep comparing BMX to mountain biking, totally different animal. Most people who ride a mtb's are not dirt jumpers and the dirt jumpers th a do ride mtb, don't go out on their DJ bikes for anything less for a DJ track or slope style event, even the guys doing the Red Bull stuff don't lower their seats all the way or ride without seats. I believe, and I'm sure that most riders and manufacturers agree, most riders don't need more than 5-6" of adjustment, most bikes wouldn't even be capable of using a seatpost that when collapsed is 425mm in length. I believe your fixing a problem that doesn't exist( but I heard that comment when I developed the first dropper post) so maybe I'll eat my words somewhere in the future.

  76. #76
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    At least you can still ride your bike (granted you still have your normal seatpost) after sending a dropper post in for a warranty repair. Perhaps that is why we can tolerate some issues with them. My GD needed a warranty repair once, but it has been going strong since (3+ years). Just needs to be lubed, cable replaced (repairs that you can do yourself, pretty much). There is an adjustment you can make on the collar that fixes most issues in 2 seconds on the trail. The Reverb on my other bike has been great - no issues - almost had it a year. I don't like how the cable kinks when it lowers though. The Lev design is better in that respect.
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  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yody View Post
    I don't even see pro DHers with their seats that low (10" below pedaling height), in fact its actually harder to ride with absolutely no seat near your arse.
    I would think you don't need a dropper post in a DH race. Just set it and forget it - they stand up and go all out up out of the saddle when they need to pedal. It probably makes sense for them to leave it a little bit up as a compromise. But dropper posts are more for normal trail riding where there is significant climbing and downhill. These are two different things.

    But yeah, 10-11 inches of lowering? I can't see the application for that, either. Maybe for super-tall people? Never had that issue.
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  78. #78
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    Theres something to be said about having the seat down but not completely out of the way, its the extra connection point your body makes with the bike besides hands and feet. Having the seat "gone" gives you a vague feeling and doesn't give you that indicator of how far back and low you are. I'm not riding trials or dirt jumps on my Seat dropper equipped bike. I think the 5-6" droppers are where its at, maaaaaybe a 8" but only on rare occasions. 10" is for too much and likely for freds who haven't learned body positioning and movement correctly and need the seat completely out of the way to feel safe on steeper obstacles. BTW I'm 6'2".

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by RASER View Post
    Our thoughts with the return rate is that the post should rise up as quickly as possible but a damper should slow it down just enough to make it seem less jarring and risky, any other speed does not make sense to us.

    Standard 380-400mm posts and most Semi-Adjusting posts all adjust 10 to 11 inches.
    Similarly, the RASE 10 also offers this capacity. The difference with the RACE 10 in that it will still fully lower on-the-fly from this height for max control and fun.
    You are attempting to create a term ("Semi-Adjustable") to describe everything but your post as a way to make yours look better. Sort of like the way proponents of the Horst Link termed the phrase "Faux Bar" for every other 4 bar suspension, the difference being that they were successful, and you won't be. You are just going to be using a term in a way that nobody understands.

    And for good reason: It is a nonsensical description, because in fact your post is arguably LESS adjustable. Your post does NOT have infinite adjustment like many posts out there. Your post does NOT let you control the rate of return like some posts out there. Your post offers ONE adjustment that others don't, which many (such as myself) will find largely irrelevant. And a post that requires frame makers to build around your post, which nobody is going to do.

    Good luck on your product, it is a fine idea, but your attempt to re-frame the terminology for marketing purposes is pretty transparent and frankly quite cheesy.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by SprungShoulders View Post
    Shorter answer: Gravity Dropper.

    Oldest is six ...no, seven years, and never a problem. Three others of various ages, also never had any issues.

    Very easy to maintain yourself (clean it once or twice a year; perhaps a new cable - for the remote-actuated versions- every two or three years); great customer service when you need anything.

    Enough stuff on modern rigs requires frequent babysitting. It's nice have a bit that just works, day in and day out, without having to dick with it.
    I did a lot of research on MTBR and talked with friends and reached the same conclusion and finally bought a GD post a couple weeks ago. Sadly, I am sending it back today for a refund--dead out of box. Even with it being on sale, these are still expensive and I am not interested in anyone's customer service when it's dead out of the box.

  81. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjsb View Post
    I did a lot of research on MTBR and talked with friends and reached the same conclusion and finally bought a GD post a couple weeks ago. Sadly, I am sending it back today for a refund--dead out of box. Even with it being on sale, these are still expensive and I am not interested in anyone's customer service when it's dead out of the box.
    What is wrong with it? Did you call GD? It might be a very simple adjustment.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  82. #82
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    Oh, yeah, this is a timely thread given my recent experience and I think there's only a couple posts that attempt to answer the question. I have no idea, but it's probably a combination of poor design, poor parts, and poor manufacturing--everything. I think i got a dud or a returned sold as new on my GD, but not interested in posting about the great service, it's going back to the online retailer asap for a refund and I'll do it the old fashioned way and get behind my saddle when needed...

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    What is wrong with it? Did you call GD? It might be a very simple adjustment.
    When switch is activated the spring does not activate. So I click the lever switch and nothing happens. I sit on it as instructed and nothing. from the GD video there's a very noticeable sound when the spring activates, mine is dead silence. I did not call GD. I am not ripping on GD or anything, I'm just not interested in dealing with it as to me it's likely to keep happening even if it gets fine tuned and works for a while.

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    A bit rough there kapusta. A couple mantras of Industrial Design are that people form product loyalty that is hard to get past and second that people adapt to products limitations. I used to have a friend on a MTB race team that said he didn't need an adjusting seatpost because he was really good at crashing.

    As Hurricane pointed out, just a few years ago people didn't even think any sort of adjusting seatpost was needed. Then everyone thought 3 little inches was all anyone could ask for until the 5 inch posts came out, etc..

    My term semi-adjusting is a bit sarcastic and I am trying to show a comparison, but it is also just as good a term as Infinite Adjust as this term is extremely misleading. The "Infinite Adjust posts are not this at all, as sure they micro-adjust, but only within a small range which is far from infinite.

    I agree, perhaps semi-adjusting is not completely an accurate term, yet these other posts do only adjust less then half the posts length. Isn't the Reverb usually called a 425mm seatpost after all? I'll work on a more precise term, something like partial range adjusting might be better. If you favor a post that only adjusts part of the post length then this term should be fine, ya.

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RASER View Post
    As Hurricane pointed out, just a few years ago people didn't even think any sort of adjusting seatpost was needed. Then everyone thought 3 little inches was all anyone could ask for until the 5 inch posts came out, etc..
    .
    You might want to check your history there bub.

    There were plenty of folks like me riding GDs "a few years ago" in 2005...

    Mountain Bike Action | GravityDropper

    4" versions were also available the following year...

    Facts = good. Hyperbole = bad, especially when it's coming from someone who claims to be producing a competing (I use that term very loosely) product.

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    The reverb forum is a mammoth so finding a single post in there is tough. But I remember reading one take on why dropper posts fail so much compared to forks is that dropper posts have only one stanchion and are sometimes expected to take 100% of your body weight plus G force. A fork with 2 stanchions will at most take 50% of your body weight per stanchion plus G force.
    Oh and I pile on the GD post, several hundred rides, no issues. Reverb a couple dozen rides then in for warranty.

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    Where is the Hyperbole? As Hurricane also pointed out "I believe your fixing a problem that doesn't exist( but I heard that comment when I developed the first dropper post) so maybe I'll eat my words somewhere in the future."

    The Hite-Rite sold many but since it was very difficult to actually use, people really put the whole idea on the burner. The Power post should have been better received but it put the seat in the way as much as lowered. I commend you for being one of the first people to have an early GD, yet there were still many people at that time that thought adjusting seat posts were just extra weight when a rider should just be using the "get-behind-the-seat" technique.

    I believe the GD and the Mavic/Joplin adjusted 3" at first. Sure they had a 4" post in the middle there, the basic idea was that change is often resisted, then possibly accepted.

    It's great just to discuss what different people think.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by RASER View Post
    Where is the Hyperbole?
    "As Hurricane pointed out, just a few years ago people didn't even think any sort of adjusting seatpost was needed. Then everyone thought 3 little inches was all anyone could ask for until the 5 inch posts came out, etc.."

    hy•per•bo•le (haɪˈpɜr bə li)

    n., pl. -les.
    1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    What is wrong with it? Did you call GD? It might be a very simple adjustment.
    I took another crack at getting it to work before returning and I was able to get the spring to activate twice, once down and once up, but it was after repeated tries of working the lever. if the number of tries on the lever before the spring activates is 15-20 then this particular one probably has smething wrong. I went back and read the reviews on the GD classic and this activation issue was common under "weaknesses" although for those riders it was occasional. Consistent with the "weaknesses" in the review forum, the lever is hard to work.

    For me it's a confidence factor. The dropper post product, in general ( not GD brand) is a nightmare, just look at these forums. Normally if I really want a product deadout of box isn't a big thing if they replace, but given the history of the posts in general I am spooked.

    When I get ready to try it again, I'll probably buy direct from GD and get the Turbo.

  90. #90
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    The HiteRite fell out of favor, not because it was difficult to use as you pointed out, it was actually a couple of things 1) riders thought that lowering your saddle was no longer desirable. 2) it added weight at a time when the "weight wars" were just beginning. 3) Frames were being made with a separate aluminum seat collar, instead of the brazed on collars in the early days, which the HR needed to work.
    As far as being commended about being the first with a Gravity Dropper, my adjustable height post preceded the Gravity Dropper by 3 years.
    Also it was Maverick/ Crank Bros., not Mavic, with the Joplin.

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    I can't believe I put Mavic, the french rim maker down, I did intend to put Maverick. It is great to hear different peoples facts and opinions. I think it is very cool that there were early innovators and enthusiasts, I was just agreeing that there was allot of resistance too.

  92. #92
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    When I first wanted to bring to market a height adjustable saddle idea, I looked at the Hite Rite and the Power Post. Back in the 80's I used to use the Hite Rite, thought it was a great idea, then they fell out of favor in the late 80's early 90's, I stopped using them, mostly because the newer frames did away with a braze on seat binder. I tried the Power Post, really did not like how they worked.
    In 1999-2000, I thought about how much I missed lowering my saddle on some rides, so I thought about bringing the Hite Rite back with some modifications, talked to Joe Breeze(awesome guy) he thought it would be great to bring them back, he agreed to sell me as many as I needed for $5 a piece, but after he talked to his partner, Josh, he would only sell me the whole lot of 25,000 pieces at $5 each. There was no way I could have done that, on something that at the time I wasn't really sure how this would go. I sat on the idea for a couple of months, used my modified HR a few more times and thought about how awesome it really is to lower your saddle, then went back to the drawing board. In 2001, I had a working prototype we made from a RockShox suspension seat post which worked quite well, in 2002, I had my own design which worked even better. It was to go into production as the Hurricane Components "Elevator shaft".
    Later on my wife got pregnant and decided to sell my company, which sold in September of that year and the Elevator Shaft and other products were shelved.

    Going back to when I first showed the first seat post's, I heard a lot of positives and negatives regarding the use of a height adjustable seat post. I do regret that I didn't continue on with the Elevator Shaft. Just one look at any mtb mag, bike shop or bike forum is proof positive of my vision, unfortunately, GD gets the title of the "first height adjustable post" but I dropped the ball, so I can't blame them, at least they first brought them to market, even if they did look almost identical to the Elevator Shaft which was shown at Sea Otter and on MTBR.
    Anyhow Raser, keep the enthusiasm going and good luck with your product.

  93. #93
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    1+ on the KS ETen, love the dropper and has taken some abuse. Only complaint is my seat always slides at the rails toward the back regardless of how much I torque the rail bolts after about 2-3 rides. Cheap and the minor annoyance still pays for itself with on the go seat post adjustability
    Keep the rubber side down

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by RASER View Post
    As Hurricane pointed out, just a few years ago people didn't even think any sort of adjusting seatpost was needed. Then everyone thought 3 little inches was all anyone could ask for until the 5 inch posts came out, etc...
    That is half correct.

    True, there was widespread skepticism when the GD first came out. For several years, actually. FWIW, I was a relatively early adopter (~Dec 2005) Nobody I knew had one or would have one for several years, I had only seen one in the flesh on a huge MTBR ride in CA a few months earlier. I had been wanting someone to make this product since I started lowering my saddle in the 90's.

    However, among people who did get on board, from the very beginning there was a widespread call for more than 3" drop, and posts with more drop were quickly appreciated.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    As far as being commended about being the first with a Gravity Dropper, my adjustable height post preceded the Gravity Dropper by 3 years..
    I talked to a guy in 1999 or 2000 (I remember this because of where I was living at the time) who had a working prototype of a dropper post (we did not use that term, obviously). Either that was you are someone beat you to it.

    It is a moot point, though, because designing (even building a prototype) and producing for market are two very different things. I commend you on your vision (though you were not alone in that), but for all relevant purposes, the GD was the "first". It was the first to market, and it the one that introduced the concept to the masses and started the niche industry.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta View Post
    I talked to a guy in 1999 or 2000 (I remember this because of where I was living at the time) who had a working prototype of a dropper post (we did not use that term, obviously). Either that was you are someone beat you to it.
    .
    I take that back. I was thinking more about it, and it could have been as late as 2002. Heck, maybe it was you. I "met" the fellow here on MTBR. We talked, but nothing ever came of it.
    15mm is a second-best solution to a problem that was already solved.

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    I have a copy of the post on that I posted on this site, I'll try to post, unfortunately, the pics don't show on the post.

    I'm going to go through my long packed away stock that's been in storage,see if I can locate some of those prototypes.
    About GD, your right, they did bring to market, and create the market for the adjustable height seatpost, can't and won't blame them for that, but I think it started from the contact that was made with me after I posted them way back when, but who knows, it could have been a couple of guys with similar vision, heck, I came out with a parallel push brake the same time Shimano introduced theirs, I know for a fact that was just a coincidence.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurricane Jeff View Post
    I have a copy of the post on that I posted on this site, I'll try to post, unfortunately, the pics don't show on the post.

    I'm going to go through my long packed away stock that's been in storage,see if I can locate some of those prototypes.
    About GD, your right, they did bring to market, and create the market for the adjustable height seatpost, can't and won't blame them for that, but I think it started from the contact that was made with me after I posted them way back when, but who knows, it could have been a couple of guys with similar vision, heck, I came out with a parallel push brake the same time Shimano introduced theirs, I know for a fact that was just a coincidence.
    I know just how you feel i invented the smart phone. I came up with the idea and everything. All that research in motion did was actually make one . Not much of a differnce if you ask me. I blame my wife and kids every day for ruining my dreams!

  99. #99
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    Fuglio, I know your being a smart ass and I get it. Those products I talked about actually did go into production, the Hurricane Levee SP 2's were a parallel push( SP= straight push) linear pull brake that was made from 1996 -1999, the Elevator Shaft, only a few were made.
    I'm not blaming anyone, life got in the way as it sometimes does. I made a choice, work 16 hours a day and not be there for my family, or sell and see my son grow...I know I made the right choice, nowadays, I work for the company I sold, with less hours, less responsibility, less stress and I work from home mostly.

  100. #100
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    you made the right choice Jeff, not that you need an internet troll to justify your life choices. Family can never get in the way of life, family is life.

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