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  1. #1
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    Who is running 10 speed?

    Any feedback would be welcome. I have some questions: can you run a bash guard and chain device with 10 speed? Anybody have experience of SRAM X7 or X9 10 speed cranks and how do they compare with Shimano SLX 10 speed cranks? What do you find the best ratios to run for AM front and back?

  2. #2
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    I'm running away from 10 speed.
    Keep the Country country.

  3. #3
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryates
    Any feedback would be welcome. I have some questions: can you run a bash guard and chain device with 10 speed? Anybody have experience of SRAM X7 or X9 10 speed cranks and how do they compare with Shimano SLX 10 speed cranks? What do you find the best ratios to run for AM front and back?
    I'm running SRAM XO 2x10 now. As far as I know there is not a bashguard with the bolt spacing and cut to fit that, or the X7/X9/XX cranksets as the spider is flared out a bit on the outside (where the bashguard would usually sit) and the chainring is bolted to the inside of it as opposed to the old school two piece chainring bolts. So I would assume that you could run a single ring guide with a taco if one of the available chainring sizes in that larger bolt patter fit your fancy.

    One of the bigwigs at Go-Ride.com is running a standard 9 speed XT crankset/chainrings with a 10 speed front der, 10 speed chain, rear derailleur and cassette with no issues. That way he can use a standard bashguard, etc....

    After doing some research the bolt spacing on the new XT and XTR 'Trail' cranksets are similar to the old 9 speed stuff. So you should be able to remove the big ring on the XT and throw on a standard bashguard and then figure something out for the XTR in a similar manner. The XTR 'Race' crankset has the larger bolt pattern.

    The upside to the 10 speed is that I can run the full range of 2x10 gears with no noise or issues. The shifting is a hundred times more crisp and quicker than the stuff your grandpa built. Like many, I had no intention of being a guinea pig for the 10 speed stuff but after friends in the industry starting providing positive non-MTBR feedback I'm glad I threw done for a groupo.

  4. #4
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    slcrockymountainrider, thanks for the comprehensive reply. Sounds like there are some good benefits to 10 speed.

  5. #5
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    I just got an Ibis Mojo and it came with a 3x10. I'm told that in the future, it will come with a 2x10. Cranks are X9; front derailleur is Shimano SLX. i replaced the big ring with a bash guard so I never rode it with the big ring. Rear derailleur and shifters are X9. The chain rubs on the front derailleur when it is on the bike stand, but not when I'm riding and the suspension is compressed. My guess is that this is due to the bike geometry and probably would be the same with a 3x10. I have to adjust the rear stop because it doesn't like going into 36. So far, shifting has been crisp and there has been no ghost shifting. I was plagued with ghost shifting on previous full suspension bikes with 9 speed XT rapidrise and regular derailleurs, so I'm thrilled with the performance of this setup.

    That said, I really don't need 10 speeds in the rear. I'd be just as happy with a 9 speed that works well. I have an XTR on my hardtail and it's awesome.

  6. #6
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    It wouldn't surprise me if 3x9 and 3x10 end up going the way of Onza tires and become a rare commodity. From what I've been told by people I ride with who work for the bike 'man', the 3 chainring Shimano stuff was their way of babystepping into the 10 speed world and watching how things played out with SRAM's XX line. Apparently it has been rather successful and to be honest now that I've spent some time running a 26/39 dual ring with a 36 tooth cassette, the 9 speed gearing seems dated. I/they predict Shimano dropping the 3x10 eventually for the more user friendly 2x10.
    Don't let the big jump in gearing scare you. I'm still able to climb everything I was able to before in the 36/34 gearing while in the 39/36 on the 10 speed.

    Only drawback I can see so far is with the bolt spacing vs. bashguard options. I'm certain MRP, e.13/Hive and the like will catch up eventually.

  7. #7
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    Thinking of making a new bike...
    But still not convinced about the improvement that it would give (2x10) to the 3x9 Setup or even 3x10.

    For now i am running fine on 3x9.
    Riding in Style: Scott Scale 40 (2006) with White Spinergy's + Balloon Tires!
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  8. #8
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    3x9 in its most common form (11-32,34 & 22/32/44) is the worst setup because it has uselessly high and low gears. Gearing was perfect with the old 8spd 11-28,30 & 22/32/42 and no one knew why they widened the gear range when 9spd was introduced.

    The advantage I see to 2x10 over 2x9 is the 36T cog lets you run a larger small ring. This makes the small ring more useful on rolling or slightly uphill singletrack. The downside is it requires a longer derailleur cage and with the current blowout prices on 9spd stuff, costs a lot more.

    For my new FR bike (my old one was 9spd 11-34 26/36) I debated keeping the same gearing or getting XX 11-36 27or28/36. I think I'm gonna go 9spd. I'll take a 120g hit but save several hundred dollars and get to run the short cage derailleur and my favorite gear indicators.
    Keep the Country country.

  9. #9
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt
    The advantage I see to 2x10 over 2x9 is the 36T cog lets you run a larger small ring. This makes the small ring more useful on rolling or slightly uphill singletrack. The downside is it requires a longer derailleur cage and with the current blowout prices on 9spd stuff, costs a lot more.

    For my new FR bike (my old one was 9spd 11-34 26/36) I debated keeping the same gearing or getting XX 11-36 27or28/36. I think I'm gonna go 9spd. I'll take a 120g hit but save several hundred dollars and get to run the short cage derailleur and my favorite gear indicators.
    Hmmmm....I don't get your logic in the first paragraph, nor the second one.

    I wouldn't say that an advantage to any gear set up would be determined by the size of a granny ring as it's all relative. The advantages to a 2x10 set up, as opposed to the old 9 speed stuff, save for maybe a dialed in 1x9, is better shiffing, gear ratio's, chainline and weight. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with a 2x9 set up, I used one for years and was happy with it.

    Personally, I wouldn't base a build around the cage size of a rear derailleur (that's about as dumb as the guy on this site a while back determined to find a high end frame to fit his odd sized carbon seatpost ). I see guys all the time trying to squeeze a short cage derailleur onto their trail bikes with standard 2x9 with 32 or 34 tooth cassettes and then have to listen to the constant grinding as they're always trying to get their middle ring to work with the easiest cog in the rear when climbing. Eventually their hangers break under the stress or else their chain and derailleur pulley teeth are all worn down. You'll get better performance and a happier drivetrain with a medium cage or larger rear derailleur. Leave the short cage for your DH bike sporting a road cassette.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    I wouldn't say that an advantage to any gear set up would be determined by the size of a granny ring as it's all relative.
    I'm comparing 9spd with a 34T cog and 26T ring to 10spd with a 36T cog and 27 or 28T ring. The 10spd setup has the same low gear but a higher top gear in the small ring. You can now stay in the small ring in places where 9spd would have you shifting up to the big ring. More spread in the small ring is an advantage to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    I wouldn't base a build around the cage size of a rear derailleur
    Short cage derailleurs result in less chain slap. Don't go to the 2 largest cogs in the big ring or the 2 smallest cogs in the small ring and it's no problem. An E13 DRS stepped roller also helps take up chain slack in the small ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by slcrockymountainrider
    The advantages to a 2x10 set up, as opposed to the old 9 speed stuff, save for maybe a dialed in 1x9, is better shiffing, gear ratio's, chainline and weight.
    The chainline of 2x10 is the same as 2x9 since either way I'll use a proper 2 ring crank (Lightning with the flip flop 64/104 spider). I doubt 10spd shifting is noticeably better since my 9 & 8spd stuff shifts perfectly every time. I agree there is a gear ratio advantage in the small ring but you disagreed with that above. And yes, there is about a 130g weight advantage at about a $500 cost (numbers are rough cuz I ran them a week ago).
    Keep the Country country.

  11. #11
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    I will be running 1x10 when the new bike gets built
    **** Looking for a Sram 9.0SL rear hub *****

  12. #12
    Fragglepuss The Chaste
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lelandjt
    The chainline of 2x10 is the same as 2x9 since either way I'll use a proper 2 ring crank (Lightning with the flip flop 64/104 spider). I doubt 10spd shifting is noticeably better since my 9 & 8spd stuff shifts perfectly every time. I agree there is a gear ratio advantage in the small ring but you disagreed with that above. And yes, there is about a 130g weight advantage at about a $500 cost (numbers are rough cuz I ran them a week ago).
    I would go back and do some recalculations on your chainline theory and use real world examples as opposed to online speculative versions. Same goes with shifting prowess, especially if using a short cage. Be certain to factor in the front derailleur and its part in allowing better access to gears not accessible with a 9-speed set up, etc....

    Not to bash the 9 speed, but there's a big difference between thinking about how something may work and actually using it in real time and then posting up something that really isn't accurate.

    After you ride a bit on the 10-speed stuff come back here and post up your thoughts and comparison. Honestly, until then you're really just making guesses and assumptions

    Having said that I was a hold out back when the 8 speed stuff was introduced. Then the 9-speed as I feared the narrower chains would snap with every pedal stroke. I waited a bit for the 10-speed stuff to get around before making the switch and was still a bit apprehensive. I am completely sold on it for all the reasons I mentioned in previous posts. That's a real world assessment of the product.

    Plus, if you're running a chainguide I wouldn't assume chainslap would really be an issue with any gear setup. At least none of the one's I've ever used on either a DH bike or a trailbike: DRS, SRS, SRS+, Stinger.... Can't really recall much chainslap, even with a medium cage derailleur and the correct chain length. But maybe I was just lucky....all those times....on all those bikes....over all those years....

    Cheers.

  13. #13
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    I don't get what you're saying about "chainline theory". 2x9 and 2x10 have the cogs and rings in the exact same place. Same chainline.

    That rattling sound when you're coasting over bumps is chainslap. A tighter chain and short derailleur cage reduce it.
    Keep the Country country.

  14. #14
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    Running 2011 XO 10 speed on my new Mojo HD. You need to use the 3x10 if you want a bash because of the BCD. I'm using the e13 Turbocharger and Heim 2 but the MRP LRP is also a good option. Only issue was the length of the supplied bolts (too short). Shifting is sweet (very precise). I'm running 22-33-Bash and a 11-36. Happy with the ratios (though I'm tempted to go 1x10). Have tried the X9 cranks on a demo bike and they are fine. Have not tried the new 10speed SLX cranks but expect that are as good as always (really hard to beat them).

    -Shane

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak
    I'm running 22-33-Bash and an 11-36. Happy with the ratios.
    Really? Meaning you use the 22/36?
    Keep the Country country.

  16. #16
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    Happy with the ratios with 33 and 11-36. Don't tend to spend alot of time in the bottom gearing in 22 independent of whether its a 11-34 or a 11-36 so no the extra gear doesn't buy me anything (probably could push the bike faster at that point). With ride it for a while and see if I can get away with 1x10 which for AM riding is probably the biggest benefit I see in the new 10 speed stuff.

  17. #17
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    The supposedly planned 24-36 XO rings will definitely help 2x10 setups and are something i would look at if I couldn't get away with a 1x10 setup.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by seleniak
    Happy with the ratios with 33 and 11-36. Don't tend to spend alot of time in the bottom gearing in 22 independent of whether its a 11-34 or a 11-36 so no the extra gear doesn't buy me anything (probably could push the bike faster at that point).
    You might like 26 and 34 or 36 tooth rings. The lowest gear is as low as you can go and get decent traction/momentum and the taller low range lets you cruise slightly uphill singletrack in the small ring.
    Keep the Country country.

  19. #19
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    Thanks Lelandjt for the suggestion. The one really annoying thing with the new 10 speed setups is the loss of flexibility in SRAM chain ring setups to 2:3 ratios like the 22/33 and 24/36 though I will probably play with different aftermarket rings once the pins and ramps for 10speed shifting gets worked through as the 26/34 would actually give me a useful small ring.

  20. #20
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    I couldn't find the chainring sizes I like for Sram, FSA, or XTR double cranks. I searched for a crank with a spider that has 2 ring spacing but standard 64/104 bolt holes. Lightning was the only one I found. It's expensive but light and I may even be able to run a bashring. More companies should offer this.
    Keep the Country country.

  21. #21
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    I'm running SRAM 2x10 with a twist: 11-36 cassette with a Stylo OCT crank with 26/36/bash/dual chain device. Almost all my riding is in the 36T, with the 26T there for the steep stuff/bad days.
    Obviously if you want a matching groupset, this can be done with the new 10spd triple cranksets from SRAM and ditching the 22/33/44 for double and bash.
    Works like a dream, and enough gearing (and the right gearing for my type of riding) for ups and downs.

  22. #22
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    1X10. you need anything lower you're better off walking or danny mackin' it.
    don't sweat the petty things & don't pet the sweaty things

  23. #23
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    I'm running 1x10 shimano with a mrp guide. Works fine. 34 front with an 11-36 cogset. Sometimes it would be nice to have a granny gear, but that is like 5% of the time.

  24. #24
    Don't be a sheep
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    I've got 2 years on 10 speed on my cyclocross bike and I'm not sold, way more finicky in the dirt than my old Shimano 9 speed stuff.
    "Do not touch the trim"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rivet
    I've got 2 years on 10 speed on my cyclocross bike and I'm not sold, way more finicky in the dirt than my old Shimano 9 speed stuff.
    yeah, i just don't think i want tighter tolerances in the dirt. I like having grimy cables and a marginally bent derailleur hanger and still shifting acceptably. The direction gearing is heading is great... but adding more gears back there doesn't do anyone any favors.
    Hell is eternally climbing manzanita trail on your singlespeed.

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