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  1. #1
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    No good wheels for all mountain use

    hi i have got a santacruz chameleon with mavic xm317 rims.i want to buy a pair of wheels for light freeride and all mountain use.I am between four options and i dont know which i choose.
    1.mavic crossmax xl
    2. Rims DT Swiss EX 5_1 XC Disc with hope pro2 and dt spokes
    3.Rims Mavic 321 XM Disc with hope pro2 and dt spokes
    4.easton havoc
    could you help me?
    have you got another pair in your mind?

  2. #2
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    I wouldn't run any of those because I prefer tubeless BUT, I would choose #1 then #2 if that was the selection I was looking at. Also the XL's can be got in a UST version. I also have read good things about the DT wheels also. If you are a aggressive rider I would tend twards the DT side. But this is just my opinion and you are sure to get more.

    My wheels are custom built by me. Mavic 823's with CK in back and Maverick in front.
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  3. #3
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    Get the d max if there is going to be "freeride".....If it is all mountian, get the xl's......the xl's do not like drops IMO..... the d max's are cheaper anyway......
    The bike is never to heavy, you are just to WEAK!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldsteele
    I wouldn't run any of those because I prefer tubeless BUT, I would choose #1 then #2 if that was the selection I was looking at. Also the XL's can be got in a UST version...
    ALL Mavic complete mtb wheels are UST. There are no non-tubeless versions.
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  5. #5
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    Didn't know that.

    I really never shop around for wheels. the last time I got a rim was just after the D3.1 turned into the 823.
    Team MOJO Wheels.

  6. #6
    TNC
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    A bunch of us in our area have had extremely good service from the CrossMax XLs. They take some moderate jumps and drops with no problems. Most of our riding here is quite rocky. No one has even broken a spoke or dented a rim. There are some good wheelsets and combinations available, but the XLs are hard to beat for the weight to strength ratio.

  7. #7
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    These babies! 2300 grams and tough as nails. Built for FR, but they're still light enough for trail riding. Of course, the cost is somewhat prohibitive at $800. But if you are looking at Crossmax XLs, then a hundred more won't hurt.
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  8. #8
    TNC
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    Hmmm...2300. I kinda like the 1800 of the CrossMax even more after hearing that. On that red color that some have griped about, I think it actually looks pretty good. Guy, have you seen those red Michy 2.5's pictured on one of my Bullits? Those would be pimpin' in a combination.

  9. #9
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    The Eastons look really cool, 1800 g...

    I might want a more hd setup if its your only wheelset, like an 823/Hadley combo...

    I've seen dt rims (the 6.1s) get dented pretty badly...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kostas
    hi i have got a santacruz chameleon with mavic xm317 rims.i want to buy a pair of wheels for light freeride and all mountain use.I am between four options and i dont know which i choose.
    1.mavic crossmax xl
    2. Rims DT Swiss EX 5_1 XC Disc with hope pro2 and dt spokes
    3.Rims Mavic 321 XM Disc with hope pro2 and dt spokes
    4.easton havoc
    could you help me?
    have you got another pair in your mind?

    Thought I already replied, but it wasn't showing...
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    You did and I deleted your SPAM.
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  11. #11
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Hmmm...2300. I kinda like the 1800 of the CrossMax even more after hearing that. On that red color that some have griped about, I think it actually looks pretty good. Guy, have you seen those red Michy 2.5's pictured on one of my Bullits? Those would be pimpin' in a combination.
    I just can't get over the build of the DTs. Does your shop carry them? It's one of those builds that you have to get up close and inspect to really appreciate the thought that went into it. On the other hand, 500 grams is a quite a bit, especially in rotational mass. And, if I had the money to spend on a new wheelset, I would go with a nice set of customs.

    You're going to post another pic of your Bullit just to make me jealous?! What kills me is that you now look at the Bullits as second rate to your Nomad.

  12. #12
    TNC
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    2nd rate, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    I just can't get over the build of the DTs. Does your shop carry them? It's one of those builds that you have to get up close and inspect to really appreciate the thought that went into it. On the other hand, 500 grams is a quite a bit, especially in rotational mass. And, if I had the money to spend on a new wheelset, I would go with a nice set of customs.

    You're going to post another pic of your Bullit just to make me jealous?! What kills me is that you now look at the Bullits as second rate to your Nomad.
    LOL!...geez, that does sound harsh, doesn't it. Well, only 2nd rate in that the Nomad is better...but it doesn't make the Bullits junk by any means. I'd unload them in a heartbeat if I felt that way. On that wheelset there, I think they are probably an awesome wheelset, just maybe heavier than most AM type riders need or want. Some of these really abusive trail riders probably can use and benefit from a beefy set like that, but most people will probably do better with lighter...just my opinion, though. Like I said, however, can you imagine that set of wheels on this bike? Maybe too much red, but by gosh, they'd see you comin'.
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  13. #13
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    I guess I'm just not happy with my San Andreas. A year after buying it, it breaks. Then I go back and read some reviews from people whose frames have broken also. Next, Mountain Cycles goes out of business. The icing on the cake is that Kinesis is out of business as well. So what am I going to do when this new frame breaks in a few months?

    I'm going to be saving up for the bike I should have gone with in the first place, a Heckler. I guess I can transfer most of the components over, but I would prefer to spend that money on a new wheelset than a new frame.

  14. #14
    TNC
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    Kinesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    I guess I'm just not happy with my San Andreas. A year after buying it, it breaks. Then I go back and read some reviews from people whose frames have broken also. Next, Mountain Cycles goes out of business. The icing on the cake is that Kinesis is out of business as well. So what am I going to do when this new frame breaks in a few months?

    I'm going to be saving up for the bike I should have gone with in the first place, a Heckler. I guess I can transfer most of the components over, but I would prefer to spend that money on a new wheelset than a new frame.
    Kinesis is out of business? Aren't they a massive Asian outfit who make stuff for a bunch of other companies...along with making their own stuff for overseas markets? Not arguing with you here, just having a hard time fathoming that the organization went out of business...hadn't heard this. I wonder if just their U.S. based plant closed for economic reasons? There were based in Oregon or near there, weren't they? My two Bullits were made in their U.S. facility. I wonder if Kinesis in the Asian area is making all the SC single pivots...or some other Asian outlet? I hate to hear that about MC. They're a piece of MTB history IMO.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Kinesis is out of business? Aren't they a massive Asian outfit who make stuff for a bunch of other companies...along with making their own stuff for overseas markets? Not arguing with you here, just having a hard time fathoming that the organization went out of business...hadn't heard this. I wonder if just their U.S. based plant closed for economic reasons? There were based in Oregon or near there, weren't they? My two Bullits were made in their U.S. facility. I wonder if Kinesis in the Asian area is making all the SC single pivots...or some other Asian outlet? I hate to hear that about MC. They're a piece of MTB history IMO.
    According to Dirtrag, MC is completely out of business and Kinesis is out of business in the US.

    Think I can sell my frame for a big price? I mean, it is now a collector's item! Stupid me didn't even realize the big K made Santa Cruz frames. I don't trust Kinesis! Makes me wonder if I shouldn't look elsewhere.

  16. #16
    TNC
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    Well...

    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    According to Dirtrag, MC is completely out of business and Kinesis is out of business in the US.

    Think I can sell my frame for a big price? I mean, it is now a collector's item! Stupid me didn't even realize the big K made Santa Cruz frames. I don't trust Kinesis! Makes me wonder if I shouldn't look elsewhere.
    if Kinesis is the Asian manufacturer of the single pivots like the Heckler and such, then I wouldn't be too concerned. Overall, the Heckler has proven very durable...and you'd have to say about the same for the Bullits made in their Oregon plant.

  17. #17
    JMH
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    Dee Max

    I have Dee Max's on my Kona HT, and it's a bit of a love/hate relationship. They have been flawless performers, but they are overkill most of the time.

    I would say that 25% of the time, they are perfect for how I ride the bike, and I wouldn't be happy with anything else. And then 75% of the time I am wondering if I should get something lighter.

    Carrying my bike up Jackson's Ladder in Moab brought the weight issue home in a big way. Especially after riding 18-odd miles on dirt roads. Not exactly Dee Max terrain.

    But on the other hand, I am going to Deer Valley tomorrow, and I will be loving them.

    Maybe I just need a SECOND WHEELSET!

    Oh, back on topic... I would probably buy the Crossmax XL.

    JMH

  18. #18
    new specialized enduro :)
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    I have a simle philosopy, keep whatever comes on the bike!

    Otherwise the lighter the better sounds like a good thesis.

  19. #19
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    tube me

    Quote Originally Posted by shiggy
    ALL Mavic complete mtb wheels are UST. There are no non-tubeless versions.
    Really?

    http://www.mavic.com/ewb_pages/p/pis....php?gamme=vtt

    http://www.mavic.com/ewb_pages/v/vtt....php?gamme=vtt

    Can you ride these without tubes?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    According to Dirtrag, MC is completely out of business and Kinesis is out of business in the US.
    Not true. They layed offf (fired) a bunch of people but Mountian Cycle will live on. I was told to stay tuned.
    Nathan
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  21. #21
    Your bike is incorrigible
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    Quote Originally Posted by nater b
    Not true. I know some guys that worked there and one still does. They laid off (fired) a bunch of people but Mountian Cycle will live on. I was told to stay tuned.
    Nathan
    Well if that is true, then I would be extremely happy. I was wondering why they would have all these proto-type bikes at inter-bike and then close down a couple months later.

  22. #22
    pwg
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    Would anyone else be looking at the Spinergy XYClone disc wheelset? They appear to be light, cool looking and similar price if not cheaper than the Crossmax XL.

    I ask because Im thinking of getting a set.

  23. #23
    TNC
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    Well, I've seen this.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwg
    Would anyone else be looking at the Spinergy XYClone disc wheelset? They appear to be light, cool looking and similar price if not cheaper than the Crossmax XL.

    I ask because Im thinking of getting a set.
    A riding buddy who used to live in my area was death on wheelsets...road or MTB. He's a big, heavy, rider, but he's also a super strong pedaler. We ordered one of those first sets of PBO Cyclone Spinergy wheels back when, and I thought he was nuts for doing so...I mean they're made out of banjo strings, aren't they? Well, that was awhile back, and last I heard, he's still on the things with no real problems. I was amazed. I checked their website, and they don't look like they've changed any, so I'd guess they would have only gotten better...at least not any worse. He's the only guy I know who ever used them, but I know he was a heck of a test case. I see they're about a 100g lighter than my CrossMax XLs...and they have a convertible front QR/20mm hub like the XLs. They are interesting.

  24. #24
    pwg
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    Thanks TNC,

    Just a quick look on the net and I can get a new 06 set for approx $400 US - they certainly would be a lot lighter than my Maxis 325 rims with Formula hubs

  25. #25
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    If you can afford them get the crossmax xls. If you're on a budget the Crossrides are 1/2 the price, UST, and have been bombproof for me so far (6 months).

  26. #26
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    hand built

    Go-ride did my wheel set, mavic 721 EX's (on sale 45.oo per rim) onyx rear hub (on sale 90.00) and marzocchi front 20mm (40.00) and on maxxis rim strips (10.00) plus spkoes and labor (100.00) and my wheel set cost 340.00 complete. Dee maxs are great I have a pair as are all mavic products just be prepared to loose major skin with any of the tubeless setups.

  27. #27
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    Reliable Mavic 823/XT/Hope Suggestion

    As I hate dealing with maintanance issue, I elected a pair of strong wheels, compromosing weight in rim choice: Mavics 823 are storng, tubeless and will withstand all I can through at them. Front hub Hope Pro II (Less than $80) and rear XT (can't beat the price/performance ratio at $45). Laced with wheelsmiths these are bomb-proof, surefooted wheel, stiff are reliable, XT rear needs some attention every now and then.

  28. #28
    Its got what plants crave
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    I saw the XLs on the main MTBR page on sale for 604 bucks shipped. If you go to the site they have a coupon for 15% off your first order. Puts the wheelset at 500 bucks or so shipped! If I had the cash I'd buy them.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by 925hell
    Go-ride did my wheel set, mavic 721 EX's (on sale 45.oo per rim) onyx rear hub (on sale 90.00) and marzocchi front 20mm (40.00) and on maxxis rim strips (10.00) plus spkoes and labor (100.00) and my wheel set cost 340.00 complete. Dee maxs are great I have a pair as are all mavic products just be prepared to loose major skin with any of the tubeless setups.
    $100 labor?!?!
    The component costs are kind of meaningless then, but the $340 total is what counts I guess.

  30. #30
    The Mountain Bike Life
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    I love my xm321's.....great rim...its what I would go with.

  31. #31
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    dudes

    I just got a pair of AM Havocs from easton (ebay 590$). I couldent be happier. I'm running them with stans rim strips and sealant and a pair of 2.3 nevegals. My Six Pack feels more lively. (previous set of wheels were 300 grams heavier).. I love the engagement. I've busted out some 5-6 foot drops to smooth trannies with no prob.
    Nice light setup for sure.

  32. #32
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    the shops near me charge 50 to build a wheel so 100 total is about right.
    there is at least 1-2 hours per each wheel to lace and true it and 25/hour is cheap labor if they do a great job building teh wheel

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwg
    Would anyone else be looking at the Spinergy XYClone disc wheelset? They appear to be light, cool looking and similar price if not cheaper than the Crossmax XL.

    I ask because Im thinking of getting a set.
    I know someone who had a pair. He took 'em to Plattekill, and though he wasn't going anything very silly (He rides a Trek Fuel- no massive hucks for him) he completely destroyed both wheels. In the middle of a rock garden all of a sudden something like 7 spokes (front and rear total) decided to cut loose, and then the rims taco'ed. Not really a surprise, given as how about half the spokes were suddenly missing. CrossMax XLs get my vote. Tubeless, light, strong, nice bearings, and they look cool.

  34. #34
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    teh

    Quote Originally Posted by bob46802
    the shops near me charge 50 to build a wheel so 100 total is about right.
    there is at least 1-2 hours per each wheel to lace and true it and 25/hour is cheap labor if they do a great job building teh wheel
    teh wheel?

  35. #35
    thats right living legend
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    You Tell Em!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Genetic
    teh wheel?

    That son of a bich!!!!!!

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by pwg
    Would anyone else be looking at the Spinergy XYClone disc wheelset? They appear to be light, cool looking and similar price if not cheaper than the Crossmax XL.

    I ask because Im thinking of getting a set.
    I picked up a pair from Pricepoint when they were on sale a few months ago as backup wheels. I've been using them daily on my SS (with a 5" fork so the bike and wheels have seen it's fair share of big hits) and has been on numerous trips to Moab, Fruita, etc... Has handled big drops fine. I recently converted them to tubeless using Maxxis strips. Still straight.
    Disclaimer: I'm light and ride light in the high desert so your results may vary if you live someplace wet with more techie trails.

  37. #37
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    Anybody try theese yet?

    http://www.tagwheels.com/CompositeWheel.aspx

    I'm anxious to hear anything about them. They're supposed to be bomb proof. If they are, I'd like to get some. I'm tired of bent rims. But I don't wanna shell out for a POS set of wheels either. Was kinda hoping someone else would first.
    Your fear of looking stupid is holding you back.

  38. #38
    HIKE!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genetic

    Crossrides are UST tubeless compatible, come with UST valves, a rim strip like a Stan's on steroids pre installed. UST tires air right up tight and fine with no sealant.

    Dee Trax are not tubeless, so you found one there. Fairly new wheelset.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 925hell
    Go-ride did my wheel set, mavic 721 EX's (on sale 45.oo per rim) onyx rear hub (on sale 90.00) and marzocchi front 20mm (40.00) and on maxxis rim strips (10.00) plus spkoes and labor (100.00) and my wheel set cost 340.00 complete. Dee maxs are great I have a pair as are all mavic products just be prepared to loose major skin with any of the tubeless setups.
    i'm curious what model maxxis rim strip you're using with the 721's.

  40. #40
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    I've been running with an Azonic Outlaw wheelset for a while now....

    They're a bit on the heavy side, but they've withstood a fair amount of abuse. Plus, I dig that they're 20mm/QR convertible, and they were pretty well priced too.

    But as soon as those TAG wheels come out, I'm picking up a set.
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  41. #41
    TNC
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    I know what you mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    Anybody try theese yet?

    http://www.tagwheels.com/CompositeWheel.aspx

    I'm anxious to hear anything about them. They're supposed to be bomb proof. If they are, I'd like to get some. I'm tired of bent rims. But I don't wanna shell out for a POS set of wheels either. Was kinda hoping someone else would first.
    I tried those older Spinergy flat-bladed MTB wheels when they came, and they absolutely sucked. I worked at a shop, and Spinergy took care of me on another type of wheelset...which I sold through the shop...but it was a hassle. These Tags look interesting, but I agree...I don't wan't to be the guinea pig.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    I tried those older Spinergy flat-bladed MTB wheels when they came, and they absolutely sucked. I worked at a shop, and Spinergy took care of me on another type of wheelset...which I sold through the shop...but it was a hassle. These Tags look interesting, but I agree...I don't wan't to be the guinea pig.
    Agree again on the TAGs. Dosn't look like you need to be the guinea pig either. Bombardier seems to have volunteeres himself. Bombardier, we're holding you to that!

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtails Are Better
    Agree again on the TAGs. Dosn't look like you need to be the guinea pig either. Bombardier seems to have volunteeres himself. Bombardier, we're holding you to that!
    Damn straight....

    Unfortunately, I won't be able to actually ride 'em until I get back from Iraq next year....
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  44. #44
    TNC
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    Iraq, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bombardier
    Damn straight....

    Unfortunately, I won't be able to actually ride 'em until I get back from Iraq next year....
    Well, be careful over there. We have to get you back as our TAG wheel test dummy. What kind of assignment will you have there?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC
    Well, be careful over there. We have to get you back as our TAG wheel test dummy. What kind of assignment will you have there?
    I'm a mechanic.... Professional Uncle Sam sponsored oil-changer, RPG-catcher/bullet-food/mortar-meat, et. al.

    I was planning on getting those TAGs before I left..... But my wife's '55 Buick is breeding electrical gremlins that are proving to be very expensive to exterminate.... And dammit, I so wanted to be the FIRST kid on the block to own a set of those wheels....
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  46. #46
    TNC
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    Well, I salute you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bombardier
    I'm a mechanic.... Professional Uncle Sam sponsored oil-changer, RPG-catcher/bullet-food/mortar-meat, et. al.

    I was planning on getting those TAGs before I left..... But my wife's '55 Buick is breeding electrical gremlins that are proving to be very expensive to exterminate.... And dammit, I so wanted to be the FIRST kid on the block to own a set of those wheels....
    And seriously, take care of yourself on your tour. We need good men back over here on the forums to give crap to just as much as the Army needs you over there to give crap to.

    '55 Buick...damn, here's another off topic...which model? I've had a couple of '57 Chevy's in my youthful hot rodding days but mess with 4WD vehicles now.

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TNC

    '55 Buick...damn, here's another off topic...which model? I've had a couple of '57 Chevy's in my youthful hot rodding days but mess with 4WD vehicles now.
    She has a Series 40, Special, 4-door sedan, w/ 264cid Nailhead V-8 w/ a Stromberg 2bbl carb.
    I have an '81 Jeep Cherokee Laredo W/T that serves as our bike hauler, and my daily driver.... plus it's been my guinea pig.... The AMC 360cid that's in it may not have the horses that a 350 Chebbie has, but it's a tugboat motor, and I've taken full advantage of that here for the Colorado terrain.

    And don't worry too much about me while I'm downrange.... this'll be my second tour, and I figure as many times as I got shot at & IED'ed last time, those jokers will've learned not to even try this time around....
    Me and my M2 .50 cal heavy machine-gun'll have something to say if they do....

    As for those TAG wheels, I'm thinking that they'll be at least as heavy as my Azonics, if not lighter, and will let me get away with a little more on the trail.... plus they'll look murderous on my anodized black Nomad....
    Bombardier :::: MCM #249

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  48. #48
    TNC
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    Oh yeah...nailhead. Buick got a lot out of that design, even into the 60's GS series.

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