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  1. #1
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    At what point do you outgrow 27.5+

    Iím about to purchase my first FS bike, and I have run across the Cannondale Bad habit 2. My dealer has them for 2900 out the door. The component package is top shelf and the bike rides great. For the money itís the Best Buy of the bikes ive looked at. Iím a little nervous that Iíll put grow the bike and it will leave me lacking. I never plan on racing just fun trail riding, but I donít want to regret the 27.5+ in a couple years.

  2. #2
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    that depends on your trails, 27+ is meant for slow speed fun and grip, you have to ride fairly techy trails and low pressure for the plus to be worth it. you can always swap the wheels to 29 and run high pressure if you want to plow through stuff.

  3. #3
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    Agreed with the above. A true plus bike will be fine for YEARS to come. Most 27.5+ capable bikes/forks will take a 29 x 2.4-2.5 without much clearance issue. (Most, you will have to verify yourself of course)

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by syl3 View Post
    that depends on your trails, 27+ is meant for slow speed fun and grip, you have to ride fairly techy trails and low pressure for the plus to be worth it. you can always swap the wheels to 29 and run high pressure if you want to plow through stuff.
    This. I think plus tires are great for slow-moderate speeds, climbing traction, and comfort on a HT. When I'm getting rowdy though, I want stiffer/tougher tires for better feedback and response, controlled dampening, and faster cornering.

  5. #5
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    Usually about the third week of April, when the trails are consistently firm and dry.

    But seriously, you could size down to the newer 2.5WT/2.6" tires with your (stock) 40mm rims before the tire profile is really too square. That would let you run sturdier tires at higher pressure (compared to 2.8's) for rowdier riding, if you don't want to build/buy a 29er wheelset.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by lrdchaos View Post
    Iím about to purchase my first FS bike, and I have run across the Cannondale Bad habit 2. My dealer has them for 2900 out the door.
    You'll be happy with it for years. Like some others here I like small light tires so I'd be looking at the non + Habit, but that's a sweet deal for a fun bike.
    oops I wasn't clipped in

  7. #7
    nvphatty
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    no regerts ( ) 650b+ is great for all you'll do, yes even fast, quick switchbacks and the like. dialing in the setup is key with PSI and mainly rebound to take advantage of PLUS.

  8. #8
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    I just stepped down from a 29er to a 27.5 after 8 years and 3k+ miles. Yes, the 29er plows through but the 27.5 is noticeably more nimble and way more fun in my opinion.

    I don't race or anything so could care less about speed, just out there to enjoy and stay in shape.
    '18 Scott Spark 730, 27.5+ FS happiness
    '10 Scott Scale 29er hardtail with a billion miles on it

  9. #9
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    27.5+ gets a bad rep about it being a learning platform or a tire for newer riders. I've seen people absolutely rip on plus tires, they can be pushed much further than a lot of threads here make it seem. I think they're a ton of fun to ride, especially in chunky single track.

    Some of this also has to do with rider weight, I'm 160lbs so to fold a sidewall over takes a little more than someone who is 200+.

  10. #10
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    One of the best riders I know rides a Bad Habit. He wanted a capable, comfortable, full suspension bike that wasnít super slack for his tight tech trails.
    I like bikes

  11. #11
    nvphatty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod View Post
    27.5+ gets a bad rep about it being a learning platform or a tire for newer riders. I've seen people absolutely rip on plus tires, they can be pushed much further than a lot of threads/posts here make it seem. I think they're a ton of fun to ride, especially in chunky single track.

    Some of this also has to do with rider weight, I'm 160lbs so to fold a sidewall over takes a little more than someone who is 200+.
    absolutely correct, tire brand & type will have an impact on many of the noted posts here. Plus tires are no diff than any other when it comes to the choices offered now.

  12. #12
    Rides all the bikes!
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    You never outgrow a bike, you just decide you want something else.

    That said, the Bad Habit is a 29/650b+. If you get tired of the plus tires just get 29'er wheels.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magsrgod View Post
    Some of this also has to do with rider weight, I'm 160lbs so to fold a sidewall over takes a little more than someone who is 200+.
    It just takes enough side force from cornering (mass or velocity). You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to retain cornering stiffness with an increase in tire height then you have to reinforce the sidewall which will increase the mass of the tire. This is why high performance car tires tend to have a very low side wall. To get the same cornering performance a plus tire will have to weigh more.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy3220 View Post
    It just takes enough side force from cornering (mass or velocity). You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you want to retain cornering stiffness with an increase in tire height then you have to reinforce the sidewall which will increase the mass of the tire. This is why high performance car tires tend to have a very low side wall. To get the same cornering performance a plus tire will have to weigh more.
    I completely agree! I'm not a physics person, but myself weighing 160 (mass) cornering at 10mph (acceleration) is less force than say someone weighing 220 doing the same.

    Plus tires are not designed or marketed as high performance racing tire options, and generally speaking they do weigh more then their 2.4 brethren. The tires just simply aren't as noodly as people or magazines (Bike) make them out to be. The tires are super fun and just get a bad name.

    I have a TB3, my plus wheelset is DHF/Ikon, everyone who rides it comes back smiling and agrees. I have an Evil Calling heading my way, I also have a 26+ wheelset for it coming my way. It's just something different, it's fun, it's riding bikes, how can it be a bad time!

  15. #15
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    Rim width affects cornering grip by supporting the sidewall in a way that prevents foldover.
    But you don't want a stiff sidewall in all cases.
    A wider rim would be as important as the tire.
    No need for a stiffer sidewall in some terrains without sharp slate or other things to chop up a tire.
    The sidewall can crinkle down like the rear tire on a dragster at launch to create a larger footprint. That gives you big traction in cornering,, climbing and when you make an abrupt line change under side load.

  16. #16
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    Drag tires are made for straight line acceleration where a large contact patch in the longitudinal direction is beneficial. Sidewall deformation under cornering forces decreases the lateral contact patch. I might be wrong though I'm just a tire (cars) engineer.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    The sidewall can crinkle down like the rear tire on a dragster at launch to create a larger footprint. That gives you big traction in cornering,, climbing and when you make an abrupt line change under side load.
    Squirm is the last thing I want out of tires. Not sure how this is somehow a good thing?

  18. #18
    Out spokin'
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    Quote Originally Posted by lrdchaos View Post
    At what point do you outgrow 27.5+
    For me it was when I realized that what I really want is 29+.
    =sParty
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    We get old because we quit riding.

  19. #19
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    I bought my Niner Jet 9 RDO as a 27.5+ a year and a half ago and loved it. Six months in I picked up a set of 29" wheels and it totally transformed the bike. Lighter and faster for my longer rides. At one point I thought I'd leave the 29s on permanently. Then I did a ride where I knew the plus tires would be better. I fell in love with them all over again. Moral of the story? I'm glad my bike accepts both wheelsets because they are both a blast.

  20. #20
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    The drag tire sidewall is an easily visualized example of what can happen to the 120tpi sidewall on a wide enough rim when a tire deforms in response to ruts or line changes while cornering. This footprint response helps retain tracking control or lets you slowly lose traction with time to make changes to recover.
    This response isn't squirm if you've got the correct width rim. That's more from too much tire on too skinny a rim. Or way too low tire pressure like when you ride on a flat.
    Speed affects this stuff too.

    Car tires on pavement dealing with vehicle weight must meet different performance criteria. Pretty much enough different to not match up to mtb tires as they're constructed currently.
    Last edited by eb1888; 03-04-2018 at 03:31 AM.

  21. #21
    RAKC Industries
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    Out grow b+... something thats known, people pay more attention to anything bad being said than good. 1 bad report is noticed 10x more than 1 good report.

    Thing is there are so many variations to plus bike set up yet one bad experience with 1 set up, one bike can cause someone to say that all plus bikes are bad. Biggest issue is usually too narrow of a wheel for the tire of choice. Need the sidewall support. And also preference of full suspension vs hard tail or rigid makes a big difference.

    And like any bike, one isnt for everyone. Personally Ill probably never go back to any bike with tires narrower than 2.8.

    Traded my 29er in on a b+. Best decision I ever made. Can ride longer and faster. And dont feel near as beat up. I also ride hardtails (fat bike is rigid) but even at that I would rather have a b+ hardtail before a 29er FS.

    Currently building 29er plus wheels for my fat bike to replace my road bike. Rather be more comfortable vs how fast I can get from a to b.



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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by lrdchaos View Post
    Iím about to purchase my first FS bike, and I have run across the Cannondale Bad habit 2. My dealer has them for 2900 out the door. The component package is top shelf and the bike rides great. For the money itís the Best Buy of the bikes ive looked at. Iím a little nervous that Iíll put grow the bike and it will leave me lacking. I never plan on racing just fun trail riding, but I donít want to regret the 27.5+ in a couple years.
    I have had a 29+ bikepacking bike since 2013. I have had zero desire for a 27+ trail rig or a 29+ trail rig for that matter...so I haven't bought one. Nothing wrong with 27+, but it's no silver bullet. There are pros and cons. Make sure you really want a 27+ bike and/or get one that can convert to a 29er if you are unsure.
    Safe riding,

    Vik
    www.vikapproved.com

  23. #23
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    I appreciate all the feedback, I ended up with a Stumpjumper expert Carbon 29 due to the price. The bike is designed with boost, so mybplan is to find a set of wheels that I can run 27.5+ on and pick the tires for the terrain Iím riding.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by eb1888 View Post
    The drag tire sidewall is a easily visualized example of what can happen to the 120tpi sidewall on a wide enough rim when a tire deforms in response to ruts or line changes while cornering. This footprint response helps retain tracking control or lets you slowly lose traction with time to make changes to recover.
    This response isn't squirm if you've got the correct width rim. That's more from too much tire on too skinny a rim. Or way too low tire pressure like when you ride on a flat.
    Speed affects this stuff too.

    Car tires on pavement dealing with vehicle weight must meet different performance criteria. Pretty much enough different to not match up to mtb tires as they're constructed currently.
    The physics don't change and your example is of a poor cornering tire so it's not completely wrong. Rim width is important but does not negate the fact that taller sidewalls will deform more in corners subsequently causing the contact patch to deform. They will squirm more even with a perfect width rim.

  25. #25
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    Maybe so, but unlike a track with a fairly consistent surface made for physics testing mtb trails exhibit an almost limitless variety of terrain conditions especially when speed variances are added to any 'equation'.
    When I look at the options now available for tuning with rim inner widths of 30mm to 50mm and tires from high volume very rounded 2.2 and 2.35 x 29 Bontragers to 2.5 or 2.6 x 29 or 2.8 or more x 27.5 or 29 at different pressures. . . whew. . .something should be successful for any mtb terrain.
    But who can analyze all the possibilities?
    Probably multiple combinations will be fun to ride and work successfully to different degrees for different parts of a trail.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lrdchaos View Post
    At what point do you outgrow 27.5+

    Roughly when you hit 5'4", unless you have, like, really long arms or something...

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