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  1. #1
    LCW
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    Trek Remedy 8/9 vs Specialized SJ Comp EVO vs Yeti SB66 vs SC Nomad

    Looking at these 3... Basically 6" AM bike... Want something that strikes a good balance between climbing and descending...

    Trek Remedy 8/9 vs Specialized SJ Comp EVO vs Yeti SB66

    Maybe even looking at SC Nomad

    Any thoughts on how these compare against each other for climbing, descending and pedal bob.

    SJ Comp EVO appealing with the std gravity dropper post, bash guard and guide wheel. Not sure about the RS Revelation fork.

    Remedy appealing with the DRCV fork and shock

    Yeti appealing with the switch tech rear susp geo.

    Nomad (in R version) appearling on price, and VPP I've heard good things. Not sure on the RS Lyrik fork vs a Fox.

    Cheers
    Last edited by LCW; 02-22-2012 at 11:44 AM.

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  2. #2
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    The nomad and sb66 won't climb as well as the Remedy and Stumpjumper.

    Do they strike a balance for you, I have no idea... Not a mind reader!

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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    The nomad and sb66 won't climb as well as the Remedy and Stumpjumper.

    Do they strike a balance for you, I have no idea... Not a mind reader!
    Electrik is right about the climbing ability, I was basically in the same situation and had a chance to demo a few bikes.. I demo the sb66, 575, nomad, Banshee Rune, and ended up getting a 2012 Evo. All of the bikes rock I have no brand loyalties my fleet includes a niner carbon, superfly, banshee, vassago. I just wanted the best climbing, most flickable, and the lightest AM build. The EVO was it u can have it under 25lbs easy. I didn't believe all the hype, bike of the year award etc... until I rode one.

    I have no experience on a Remedy but I did demo a Slash 9 at Rays and it was fun.... not so much climbing but than again I didn't mess with the settings and it was one size to large so not a fair review.

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    I find the Remedy the most appealing not sure why, my Dad has rode fuels for years with no problems

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5power View Post
    The EVO was it u can have it under 25lbs easy .
    You can ruin any of these bikes by building them light.

    I've got a Yeti. Works well. Climbs well. A tricked out build with a 32 fork, reverb and proper aggressive tyres is 29lbs with pedals in a large. Dropping the weight from here by a lb. would mean taking off something I want to keep.

    The yeti frame isn't light but it is solid and it wears its weight well. Talk of 25lb bikes in this category is not something I'd have any interest in.

    Big S makes good bikes. Evo is one of their best. Most people comment that the loss of the brain from the rear suspension compared to the non-evo means it bobs. That has always been the assumed nature of Horst link. Doesn't stop the Evo being a very tempting proposition.

    Don't have experience on a Remedy but ride a Devinci Dixon which has Spilt Pivot equivalent of ABP. That bike has a great feel. Really positive under the pedals. Yeti feels more sophisticated by comparison but no less fast, up or down.

    Riding position on an sb66 not really comparable with a Nomad. The long and low position is the epitome of new school AM. Evo is similar. Nomad is much more a position for ploughing through on the basis of a big fork flattening the chunk. Remedy is probably a less extreme variation, probably best describes as neutral. You've got to ride these bikes to appreciate the differences.

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    lots of good points above, I felt the same way when I rode the sb66 than switch to the nomad. Nomad is more upright, a great bulldozer....

    As for the comment about ruining these bikes by building them into the sub 25lbs category, I gotta disagree.... 10 years ago your yeti would be consider light and ridiculous. Technology of bikes just gets better every year just like our smartphones... If money was no object my 5'9 135lbs frame would be on a 20lbs AM bike. Weight does not play a major roll but deep down inside we are all weight weenies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5power View Post
    lots of good points above, I felt the same way when I rode the sb66 than switch to the nomad. Nomad is more upright, a great bulldozer....

    As for the comment about ruining these bikes by building them into the sub 25lbs category, I gotta disagree.... 10 years ago your yeti would be consider light and ridiculous. Technology of bikes just gets better every year just like our smartphones... If money was no object my 5'9 135lbs frame would be on a 20lbs AM bike. Weight does not play a major roll but deep down inside we are all weight weenies...
    Mine is a weight weenie build... for my 6'2" 200lb frame. Seriously you can't go lighter easily without losing capability...by which I mean tyres and wheels. I love tubeless but will not run anything other than a proper ust tyre or some robust tubeless readys because everything else is squirmy. I also need decent size rotors to bring it all back to rest; I run 180s. Honestly there isn't a way of swapping out anything that wouldn't break when I didn't want it to.

    A full xtr build with 1700g wheels is 28.5 lbs with a 7lb frame and anything less is useless or breaks thee laws of physics. Add a reverb and it is 29lbs. Anything less isn't worth riding (for me).

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    Last edited by petercarm; 02-24-2012 at 01:21 AM.

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    i have a 2011 Spec SJ Comp Carbon and also a SB66. I'll take the SB66 any day for all-around capability. The SJ is a couple pounds lighter, but the SB is a better ride. I pedal both of them on climbs with the rear shock set 'open' on climbs (no "brain" on my SJ) and i think that's the area where they're most similar, but I don't find the SJ to be superior in the climbing department. When the going gets tough, the SB66 is the bike for me.

    I can't speak to the Trek or Nomad, haven't pedaled them.

  9. #9
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    I love the Remedy. LOVELOVELOVE. That being said, I do NOT like Fox 32s at all. I recently put a Revelation on my Remedy and absolutely love it. All of my experience with Rockshox is better than all my experience with Fox, so that would tear me between the Stumpy and the Remedy. I have no experience with either of the other 2 options.
    Go ride your bike.

  10. #10
    LCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by uberstein View Post
    i have a 2011 Spec SJ Comp Carbon and also a SB66. I'll take the SB66 any day for all-around capability. The SJ is a couple pounds lighter, but the SB is a better ride. I pedal both of them on climbs with the rear shock set 'open' on climbs (no "brain" on my SJ) and i think that's the area where they're most similar, but I don't find the SJ to be superior in the climbing department. When the going gets tough, the SB66 is the bike for me.

    I can't speak to the Trek or Nomad, haven't pedaled them.
    I'm assuming your SJ a non-EVO? wondering how much different it would be in the descents

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    Spent a couple of weeks on the Remedy and was impressed,climbed and pedal real well very predictable overall but no real improvement in comparison to my Titus EG.Remedy is a tad lighter but the EG does everything well,just recently hit a 30ft speed double on it and was rock solid!

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    The EVO version is slightly different, but not much. Mine has a Revelation fork...

    As far as climbing differences are concerned, the suspension design between the EVO and regular SJ is pretty much the same. Shock tuning differences could be noticeable, I suppose.

  13. #13
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    I LOOOOOVE my Remedy 9. Incredible machine. Love it.
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    I am no longer a hardtailkid. 2012 Trek Remedy 9!

  14. #14
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    Turner 5.Spot will hold its own in this company as well. Awesome rig! Climbs better than anything else I've owned and descends better than I can keep up with! Deals can still be found on 2011 frames!

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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    You can ruin any of these bikes by building them light.

    I've got a Yeti. Works well. Climbs well. A tricked out build with a 32 fork, reverb and proper aggressive tyres is 29lbs with pedals in a large. Dropping the weight from here by a lb. would mean taking off something I want to keep.

    The yeti frame isn't light but it is solid and it wears its weight well. Talk of 25lb bikes in this category is not something I'd have any interest in.

    Big S makes good bikes. Evo is one of their best. Most people comment that the loss of the brain from the rear suspension compared to the non-evo means it bobs. That has always been the assumed nature of Horst link. Doesn't stop the Evo being a very tempting proposition.

    Don't have experience on a Remedy but ride a Devinci Dixon which has Spilt Pivot equivalent of ABP. That bike has a great feel. Really positive under the pedals. Yeti feels more sophisticated by comparison but no less fast, up or down.

    Riding position on an sb66 not really comparable with a Nomad. The long and low position is the epitome of new school AM. Evo is similar. Nomad is much more a position for ploughing through on the basis of a big fork flattening the chunk. Remedy is probably a less extreme variation, probably best describes as neutral. You've got to ride these bikes to appreciate the differences.

    Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

    I test rode the EVO Carbon this weekend at the Southeast Bike Expo. The suspension did not bob one bit, and in fact I liked the rear shock better than the Sworks 29er with the brain.

    Unfortunately I didn't have time to ride the Remedy, but the Fuel EX 9.8 I tested was very fun. Better climber than the EVO but didn't do IT for me as well as the EVO.

  16. #16
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    I have been on an EVO for a month or so. It is quickly becoming the best bike I have ever owned. It pedals really good for a bike with 150mm of travel, I notice a little bob but not much. When the trail turns down or gets really flowy is when the bike comes alive. It just wants to be thrown around and pushed as hard as you can push it.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Looking at these 3... Basically 6" AM bike... Want something that strikes a good balance between climbing and descending...

    Trek Remedy 8/9 vs Specialized SJ Comp EVO vs Yeti SB66

    Maybe even looking at SC Nomad

    Any thoughts on how these compare against each other for climbing, descending and pedal bob.

    SJ Comp EVO appealing with the std gravity dropper post, bash guard and guide wheel. Not sure about the RS Revelation fork.

    Remedy appealing with the DRCV fork and shock

    Yeti appealing with the switch tech rear susp geo.

    Nomad (in R version) appearling on price, and VPP I've heard good things. Not sure on the RS Lyrik fork vs a Fox.

    Cheers
    Sorry to add yet another couple of bikes, but have you considered the Ibis Mojo HD or Pivot Mach 5.7? Like the 5 Spot, they have their own flavor of DW Link and are great climbers and are fabulous on the decent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JMW503 View Post
    Sorry to add yet another couple of bikes, but have you considered the Ibis Mojo HD or Pivot Mach 5.7? Like the 5 Spot, they have their own flavor of DW Link and are great climbers and are fabulous on the decent.
    +1 on the HD or 5.7.
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    Just to emphasise the climbing prowess of the SB66... mine is currently running with a 160mm fork so a 65.5 head angle. Without any use of propedal and without any climbing assistance from the fork I bagged 6th place on a local dirt track climb (out of 62) on Strava yesterday while out on a group ride. I'm in my forties, I'm about 10lbs overweight and I'm running flat pedals. This was on Sunday morning having had a good late afternoon and night ride on Saturday.

    It handled a steep road climb out of the saddle once again with no propedal and just rock solid power delivery. The 2.35 Bontrager XR4 tubeless up front isn't exactly a fast rolling tyre at the low pressures I run.

    I did adjust my settings to run slightly less sag than previously (actually spot on yeti's book sag figure of ~28%) and this definitely unleashed this climbing performance. I'm extremely impressed with this from a 30lb do-anything bike.

    Must have had my spinach.

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    +1 HD; awesome bike Nomad may be a little more plush, but the HD climbs like an animal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cbussiere View Post
    Turner 5.Spot will hold its own in this company as well. Awesome rig! Climbs better than anything else I've owned and descends better than I can keep up with! Deals can still be found on 2011 frames!
    And Turner is selling the 2011 bikes for ~$1695, which is not terrible. The stumpy and Trek are great bikes as well.

  22. #22
    LCW
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    Just to emphasise the climbing prowess of the SB66... mine is currently running with a 160mm fork so a 65.5 head angle. Without any use of propedal and without any climbing assistance from the fork I bagged 6th place on a local dirt track climb (out of 62) on Strava yesterday while out on a group ride. I'm in my forties, I'm about 10lbs overweight and I'm running flat pedals. This was on Sunday morning having had a good late afternoon and night ride on Saturday.

    It handled a steep road climb out of the saddle once again with no propedal and just rock solid power delivery. The 2.35 Bontrager XR4 tubeless up front isn't exactly a fast rolling tyre at the low pressures I run.

    I did adjust my settings to run slightly less sag than previously (actually spot on yeti's book sag figure of ~28%) and this definitely unleashed this climbing performance. I'm extremely impressed with this from a 30lb do-anything bike.

    Must have had my spinach.

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    that's pretty impressive... i'm sure you're not giving yourself enough credit... it's usually more the engine than the bike...

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  23. #23
    LCW
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    how does base Spec Enduro Comp compare with SJ Comp EVO? seems like there is overlap there... both same price ($3300 msrp)

    SB66 also $3300 for 2012...

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    Nomad all the way!

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    Go out and ride them all. Get what fits and feels the best. All are good bikes, but don't take advice from those that haven't tested all 3!
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    Try out the SC Blur. I have one and it's the best bike I have ever owned. A little less travel then the Nomad but it's a few pounds lighter as well.

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    Tested the Expert Evo this weekend and just placed an order for the Comp Evo today. Can't freakin' wait to hop on board to rip the single track around here! My goal is to whip the guys with XC 29ers butts.....lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by idigm View Post
    Try out the SC Blur. I have one and it's the best bike I have ever owned. A little less travel then the Nomad but it's a few pounds lighter as well.
    Yep, my Blur LT was exactly 3lbs lighter than my Nomad. Half pound on the frame or more, full pound on the 36mm fork, half pound on the dropper post and full pound on the UST tires. Everything else was was exactly the same. BLT 27.75 lbs, Nomad 30.75lbs

    But if you are doing more AM and less trail riding, the Nomad is much better than the BLT. There are so many good bikes in this category. I really love my Nomad, but I miss how the BLT climbed. If I had to do it over again I might go SB66, Reign 0, Intense Carbide or Tracer, Pivot 5.7c. I'd really want to spend some time in the saddle of each of those to make sure they could do what the Nomad does. 160 is great, 150mm might be just perfect for my tastes.
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmaum1 View Post
    Tested the Expert Evo this weekend and just placed an order for the Comp Evo today. Can't freakin' wait to hop on board to rip the single track around here! My goal is to whip the guys with XC 29ers butts.....lol.
    Congrats, you will not be disappointed. The more I ride mine the more I love it.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdmaum1 View Post
    Tested the Expert Evo this weekend and just placed an order for the Comp Evo today. Can't freakin' wait to hop on board to rip the single track around here! My goal is to whip the guys with XC 29ers butts.....lol.
    how long of a wait were you told when you ordered your Comp Evo?

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    Its an XL frame, should be here, at the latest, by Monday. I'm having some wheels built though so probably will not be riding until next weekend.

    Have you been able to ride any of the bikes? Leaning one way or the other?

  32. #32
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    I have not been able to ride anything... I'm hundreds of miles away from any decent bike shop. I have a trip to Fruita and Moab in late Apr - so was hoping to get something by then, but I might just rent/demo to start.

    I've got an SB66 on reserve just in case. From what I'm reading in the SB66 reviews though (and looking at it in "Linkage" program), it blows through it's travel quite easily. Not sure if that's a real problem, or just a problem for extreme riders going big.

    I think I'm leaning towards SJ Evo Comp or Remedy 8 (or maybe 9 if can find deal). From the suspension curves in Linkage, Remedy and SJ seem to have very similar qualities (axle path, leverage ratio, pedal feedback, etc.). But demo'ing an SB66 might change all that.

    So will see... probably be wise to test ride before dropping coin.
    Last edited by LCW; 03-01-2012 at 11:35 AM.

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  33. #33
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    I've ridden both the Remedy and SB-66.

    To me the SB-66 would be the better climber but the Remedy was definitely the better feeling bike overall. I just wish Trek would spec their bike models honestly.

    I have not ridden the SJ.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    I have not been able to ride anything... I'm hundreds of miles away from any decent bike shop. I have a trip to Fruita and Moab in late Apr - so was hoping to get something by then, but I might just rent/demo to start.

    I've got an SB66 on reserve just in case. From what I'm reading in the SB66 reviews though (and looking at it in "Linkage" program), it blows through it's travel quite easily. Not sure if that's a real problem, or just a problem for extreme riders going big.

    I think I'm leaning towards SJ Evo Comp or Remedy 8 (or maybe 9 if can find deal). From the suspension curves in Linkage, Remedy and SJ seem to have very similar qualities (axle path, leverage ratio, pedal feedback, etc.). But demo'ing an SB66 might change all that.

    So will see... probably be wise to test ride before dropping coin.
    Man that sounds like a great trip. You West Coast guys have it made for scenery!!!

    I tested the Fuel EX 9.8 but didn't test the Remedy at the bike show, wish I would have. The Fuel EX was very nice, just too XC/racey for me. I want something that will climb great but descend better. Remedy would probably be a good bike. I know the Evo will, haven't read a bad review yet. Their really dialed this year. Either way it's gonna be great bike!! Can you test them all while in Moab?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    I have not been able to ride anything... I'm hundreds of miles away from any decent bike shop. I have a trip to Fruita and Moab in late Apr - so was hoping to get something by then, but I might just rent/demo to start.

    I've got an SB66 on reserve just in case. From what I'm reading in the SB66 reviews though (and looking at it in "Linkage" program), it blows through it's travel quite easily. Not sure if that's a real problem, or just a problem for extreme riders going big.
    I think I'm leaning towards SJ Evo Comp or Remedy 8 (or maybe 9 if can find deal). From the suspension curves in Linkage, Remedy and SJ seem to have very similar qualities (axle path, leverage ratio, pedal feedback, etc.). But demo'ing an SB66 might change all that.

    So will see... probably be wise to test ride before dropping coin.
    You wont have any issues with blowing through the travel on an EVO. I have yet to use more than 3/4 of my travel. I don't go out of my way to do big drops, but stuff that easily bottomed my last bike out doesn't even phase the EVO. That said it feels like I am using more travel than before, the bike truly feels bottomless to me

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    The nomad and sb66 won't climb as well as the Remedy and Stumpjumper.

    Do they strike a balance for you, I have no idea... Not a mind reader!
    Your right. The SB66 climbs better than those 2, and the Nomad climbs far worse.

    Ride one please before you talk.


    I recently purchased a bike and I felt that the trek remedy are very trail oriented with geo and especially components. The Stumpy is a very nice choice if you like the FSR design, and is also about the cheapest. The Nomad is a true AM/mini DH bike, the Stumpy and remedy are not as much.

    I personally loved the sb66 while i was riding it, I ended up going with an enduro because the 2011 sb66 build kits didnt have a fox 36. The mini linkage is literally amazing--climbs awesome in and out of the saddle, better than vpp. The 2012s have a build kit with a 36 i think. If i was buying a bike right now i would go with the yeti sb66 and put a ccdbair on it. Falling rate problem solved with the insane bottom out resistance of the new shock from cc. Also look at the Trek Slash and the Enduro.

    As far as blowing through the travel, that is a problem with the RP23. The Yeti's problem is bigger because the air volume is a bit more than most other 6 in bikes, and the larger volume in an air shock the less progressive it is. This is why a lot of people add shims to the air can on the rp23s to increase the progessivion of the shock
    Last edited by While At Rome; 03-02-2012 at 07:06 AM.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by While At Rome View Post
    Your right. The SB66 climbs better than those 2, and the Nomad climbs far worse.

    Ride one please before you talk.


    I recently purchased a bike and I felt that the trek remedy are very trail oriented with geo and especially components. The Stumpy is a very nice choice if you like the FSR design, and is also about the cheapest. The Nomad is a true AM/mini DH bike, the Stumpy and remedy are not as much.

    I personally loved the sb66 while i was riding it, I ended up going with an enduro because the 2011 sb66 build kits didnt have a fox 36. The mini linkage is literally amazing--climbs awesome in and out of the saddle, better than vpp. The 2012s have a build kit with a 36 i think. If i was buying a bike right now i would go with the yeti sb66 and put a ccdbair on it. Falling rate problem solved with the insane bottom out resistance of the new shock from cc. Also look at the Trek Slash and the Enduro.

    As far as blowing through the travel, that is a problem with the RP23. The Yeti's problem is bigger because the air volume is a bit more than most other 6 in bikes, and the larger volume in an air shock the less progressive it is. This is why a lot of people add shims to the air can on the rp23s to increase the progessivion of the shock
    Anyways the sb66 is not going to be the same efficient climber as a remedy or stumpjumper! Please, read the original statement again. I merely separated the two types.

    Don't be rude. I'll talk since i've ridden 3 out of the 4 bikes mentioned. Now look at the SB66 for a second.

    You do know it is very possible Yeti poached Santacruz's VPP design( I even think I read Yeti is now being sued.) and simply modified to enhance initial compression stroke to the deficit of the finish. I think that is what the Yeti's fancy eccentric pivot is about - trying to cheat the VPP patent. This modification of a vpp rate would explain why you're going on about ccdbair and bottom out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonblur View Post
    Yep, my Blur LT was exactly 3lbs lighter than my Nomad. Half pound on the frame or more, full pound on the 36mm fork, half pound on the dropper post and full pound on the UST tires. Everything else was was exactly the same. BLT 27.75 lbs, Nomad 30.75lbs

    But if you are doing more AM and less trail riding, the Nomad is much better than the BLT. There are so many good bikes in this category. I really love my Nomad, but I miss how the BLT climbed. If I had to do it over again I might go SB66, Reign 0, Intense Carbide or Tracer, Pivot 5.7c. I'd really want to spend some time in the saddle of each of those to make sure they could do what the Nomad does. 160 is great, 150mm might be just perfect for my tastes.
    wilson--can you talk a bit about the differences in climbing btwn blur LT2 and nomad mk2? i'm currently on a blur LT2, and was thinking replacing it w/ a nomad. thx!
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    You do know it is very possible Yeti poached Santacruz's VPP design( I even think I read Yeti is now being sued.) and simply modified to enhance initial compression stroke to the deficit of the finish. I think that is what the Yeti's fancy eccentric pivot is about - trying to cheat the VPP patent. This modification of a vpp rate would explain why you're going on about ccdbair and bottom out.
    So you're reducing a complex issue of patent law to: "yeti must be guilty". Is that done on the basis of "no smoke without fire" reasoning. Well done for using the words"cheat" and "poached"; they mark out the prejudice in your post so we can all see your words in context.

    The SB66 climbs brilliantly in and out of the saddle. Its suspension curve is nothing like VPP. (Really, I can argue that point but it gets dull). The linear shock rate (not falling) doesn't provide bottom out protection, so the shock needs to prevent blowing through travel. Like all short link bikes, climbing performance depends on sag. Too much sag and it won't climb well.

    the design has compromises. it is quite a heavy frame and some of the bearings are quite exposed to the weather. I think yeti's spec for the rp23 has too light compression damping, which I have fixed on my bike. In this state, and at the sag I prefer for climbing it is a little bit harsh over stutter bumps, but it never blows through its travel and climbs well.

    I don't have experience on a remedy, but I ride a devinci Dixon which uses the very similar split pivot setup (essentially single pivot wrt. climbing performance). The yeti is the better climber because its suspension is more active over bumps while counteracting the accelerating forces just as effectively. I come to this judgement by riding one or other of these bikes every time I hit the trails. I'm assuming the Trek is similar, but obviously DRCV should be taken into account, although the fully floating shock mount should be looked at only in terms of how it affects shock rate.

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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    So you're reducing a complex issue of patent law to: "yeti must be guilty". Is that done on the basis of "no smoke without fire" reasoning. Well done for using the words"cheat" and "poached"; they mark out the prejudice in your post so we can all see your words in context.

    The SB66 climbs brilliantly in and out of the saddle. Its suspension curve is nothing like VPP. (Really, I can argue that point but it gets dull). The linear shock rate (not falling) doesn't provide bottom out protection, so the shock needs to prevent blowing through travel. Like all short link bikes, climbing performance depends on sag. Too much sag and it won't climb well.

    the design has compromises. it is quite a heavy frame and some of the bearings are quite exposed to the weather. I think yeti's spec for the rp23 has too light compression damping, which I have fixed on my bike. In this state, and at the sag I prefer for climbing it is a little bit harsh over stutter bumps, but it never blows through its travel and climbs well.

    I don't have experience on a remedy, but I ride a devinci Dixon which uses the very similar split pivot setup (essentially single pivot wrt. climbing performance). The yeti is the better climber because its suspension is more active over bumps while counteracting the accelerating forces just as effectively. I come to this judgement by riding one or other of these bikes every time I hit the trails. I'm assuming the Trek is similar, but obviously DRCV should be taken into account, although the fully floating shock mount should be looked at only in terms of how it affects shock rate.

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    Firstly, well done using truism "where there is smoke there is fire" ... did you write this post from the can? Because I am also thinking where there is a bad smell there is xxxx



    From the the data in a thread posted previously(unless you have more from Yeti?) it seemed close to VPP design to me and the Santacruz engineers likely felt the same way. Hence the lawsuit, so yes I tend to think where there is smoke their is probably fire.

    Anyways, this is getting way to focused on the sb66 suspension design, "climbs like a hardtail" claims are a dime a dozen. Why don't people also reconcile the other characteristics like seat tube angle, head-tube angle, weight and EFF top tube lengths into the discussion. A DJ bike pedals like a hardtail, but is it your choice to climb technical singletrack? Other things play into this hugely as well - like a pedaling platform on the shock.

    Lastly is it really worth the time to argue such differences. For instance you've done nothing to convince me about sb66 - except to laud it as a fanboy should. So you see, even you seem biased and I remain skeptical of any claim that a big suspension bike can climb like a smaller one.

    Put that all together and you've got a great reason for my first grouping of bicycles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dth656 View Post
    wilson--can you talk a bit about the differences in climbing btwn blur LT2 and nomad mk2? i'm currently on a blur LT2, and was thinking replacing it w/ a nomad. thx!
    The BLT climbs effeciently and IMO has a snappier feel to pedal effort. It seems to respond quicker and with more ease of effort. I experienced less rider input on the BLT. The Nomad has longer chain stays and climbs well but feels a little less responsive on long climbs and takes more effort than the BLT. We have seem really long climbs here that are grinding and steep. We generally gain 2000-3000ft total altitude in 3-5 miles. It generally not smooth trail either. However the Nomad climbs technical sections with a far greater amount of traction the the BLT does. I think in slow speed technical climbing its more stable and I just never loose traction. I think the longer stays really help here. I made several technical climbs here in CO that I couldn't make on the BLT. The Nomad climbs great for a 6.3" travel bike, but on long grinding non technical climbs you feel it's girth.

    I have some videos of what I climb with the Nomad if you're interested. I didn't make those climbs on the BLT. Do you have specific questions. I never used the lockout on my BLT, but I'd be tempted on my Nomad if I had one. I have a Float R Pushed on my Nomad and an RP23 2010 on the BLT2. The bikes are both 2010's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    Anyways the sb66 is not going to be the same efficient climber as a remedy or stumpjumper! Please, read the original statement again. I merely separated the two types.

    Don't be rude. I'll talk since i've ridden 3 out of the 4 bikes mentioned. Now look at the SB66 for a second.

    .
    I have also ridden 3 out of the 4 bikes and think the Remedy climbs worst out of the group. I rode the older 160mm version of the Remedy. I own a Nomad 2 with a Float R Pushed and compared to my memory of what a slug the old Remedy felt like it seems far better. The newer Remedy's are 150mm if I recall correctly and more akin in geometry to a BLT than a Nomad.

    I think there's a significant difference in 150mm bikes with 32mm forks and 160mm bikes with 36mm forks. The 150mm bikes seem snappier and more effeciently in climbing and the extra girth of the fork is felt too on the 160mm bikes. I think it's not quite and equal comparison or in the 150 to a 160mm bike. I rode a buddy's Enduro 2011 and it climbed terrible compared to the Nomad. Something was terribly wrong with the shock. He weighed 165 and was running like 225psi or more and it still bobbed like a kid in the water at the beach.

    I think 150mm bikes will climb better than 160mm bikes in general.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonblur View Post
    I have also ridden 3 out of the 4 bikes and think the Remedy climbs worst out of the group. I rode the older 160mm version of the Remedy. I own a Nomad 2 with a Float R Pushed and compared to my memory of what a slug the old Remedy felt like it seems far better. The newer Remedy's are 150mm if I recall correctly and more akin in geometry to a BLT than a Nomad.

    I think there's a significant difference in 150mm bikes with 32mm forks and 160mm bikes with 36mm forks. The 150mm bikes seem snappier and more effeciently in climbing and the extra girth of the fork is felt too on the 160mm bikes. I think it's not quite and equal comparison or in the 150 to a 160mm bike. I rode a buddy's Enduro 2011 and it climbed terrible compared to the Nomad. Something was terribly wrong with the shock. He weighed 165 and was running like 225psi or more and it still bobbed like a kid in the water at the beach.

    I think 150mm bikes will climb better than 160mm bikes in general.
    From what I recall the remedy was tweaked to a longer reach either this year or last. That would be likely 2012 since Trek is splitting their product categories again with the slash taking over the more AM. Anyways there is a pretty fine edge here in terms of requirement, personally i prefer the extra stiffness on a big bike.

    It might be sb66 suspension is an even more pedal friendly platform than the nomad, maybe it's exceeds the old remedy, but it seems the sort of bike that could use a "36mm fork" as you say and that puts it on the "big bike" side of my line.

  44. #44
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    contact a few bike shops somewhat near me... and can't get both Remedy 8 and Spec SJ Evo Comp for $3K even.

    Seems like Evo might be a bit more bike for the money, with seat dropper and chain guide/bash combo... Although Remedy has DRCV... worth something? or just more complexity to go wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    contact a few bike shops somewhat near me... and can't get both Remedy 8 and Spec SJ Evo Comp for $3K even.

    Seems like Evo might be a bit more bike for the money, with seat dropper and chain guide/bash combo... Although Remedy has DRCV... worth something? or just more complexity to go wrong?

    The DRCV shock on the Remedy is a wonderful thing. I've heard many stories of trouble getting the DRCV fork to feel as good as it's supposed to though. Although that seems to be a theme with Fox forks as far as I'm concerned. I have a 2010 Remedy 8 frame. It's the year before they started using ABP Convert and Mino Link. I've got it set up with a 2011 Revelation XX, which in combination with the whole Full Floater/ABP/DRCV rear end makes equates to pure joy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by electrik View Post
    Firstly, well done using truism "where there is smoke there is fire" ... did you write this post from the can? Because I am also thinking where there is a bad smell there is xxxx



    From the the data in a thread posted previously(unless you have more from Yeti?) it seemed close to VPP design to me and the Santacruz engineers likely felt the same way. Hence the lawsuit, so yes I tend to think where there is smoke their is probably fire.

    Anyways, this is getting way to focused on the sb66 suspension design, "climbs like a hardtail" claims are a dime a dozen. Why don't people also reconcile the other characteristics like seat tube angle, head-tube angle, weight and EFF top tube lengths into the discussion. A DJ bike pedals like a hardtail, but is it your choice to climb technical singletrack? Other things play into this hugely as well - like a pedaling platform on the shock.

    Lastly is it really worth the time to argue such differences. For instance you've done nothing to convince me about sb66 - except to laud it as a fanboy should. So you see, even you seem biased and I remain skeptical of any claim that a big suspension bike can climb like a smaller one.

    Put that all together and you've got a great reason for my first grouping of bicycles.

    I still think the EVO takes the cake here.....more bang for your buck. Its gonna be a really fun bike, as they all would.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LCW View Post
    Looking at these 3... Basically 6" AM bike... Want something that strikes a good balance between climbing and descending...

    Trek Remedy 8/9 vs Specialized SJ Comp EVO vs Yeti SB66

    Maybe even looking at SC Nomad

    Any thoughts on how these compare against each other for climbing, descending and pedal bob.

    SJ Comp EVO appealing with the std gravity dropper post, bash guard and guide wheel. Not sure about the RS Revelation fork.

    Remedy appealing with the DRCV fork and shock

    Yeti appealing with the switch tech rear susp geo.

    Nomad (in R version) appearling on price, and VPP I've heard good things. Not sure on the RS Lyrik fork vs a Fox.

    Cheers
    I have ridden the Nomad, new remedy, SB66 and the stumpy evo. As of a few months ago, I now own the 2011 stumpy expert evo and the 2012 is even better. For the money, you get the most with the evo and from my experience, the most versatile and fun bike out of the bunch. Don't get me wrong, all are great bikes, but the stumpy evo felt the best to me. It climbs amazingly well and flies downhill. I just recently rode SB66 in moab again and could not wait to jump back on my stumpy evo.

  48. #48
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    ggilings - what did u like better about the EVO vs the SB-66?

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    Hi my 2cents
    Had a carbon sworks enduro stolen after a year so had some insurance money to play with.
    After 2 months on a blur LT1 nice but not tough enough, and then 4 months on a nomad 2 I've sold them and found an old enduro sl (2009). Carried over all the same parts pretty much with money left over and am happy now.
    The 2 main things are a better fit for me and having a suspension design that works the way I like it. The nomad was firm "VPP efficient" uphill on coil or air, shocks or forks (I've got a full garage) but I couldn't make stony climbs I cruise up in the enduro. The nomad was good downhill but not exceptional. Also the VPP lower bearings collect and suffer in mud even with the grease points, I had bearings replaced etc but maybe just the mud type where I live.
    I thought SC VPP would be great after reading these forums but a bit disappointed and reinforces to me (still a bit slow to figure it out after 20 yrs of MTB) the need to ride bikes before wasting time on ones I don't like that much.
    I'm sure the SL evo will be great. I like specialized geometry and fsr, just the componentry is sometimes not so great. Eg the new RP23 with needle bearings, and a rev fork bring my old enduro frame to life.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by wilsonblur View Post
    I think there's a significant difference in 150mm bikes with 32mm forks and 160mm bikes with 36mm forks. The 150mm bikes seem snappier and more effeciently in climbing and the extra girth of the fork is felt too on the 160mm bikes. I think it's not quite and equal comparison or in the 150 to a 160mm bike. I rode a buddy's Enduro 2011 and it climbed terrible compared to the Nomad. Something was terribly wrong with the shock. He weighed 165 and was running like 225psi or more and it still bobbed like a kid in the water at the beach.

    I think 150mm bikes will climb better than 160mm bikes in general.
    There is a significant difference in these bikes. That is why in Europe these bikes are broken into two categories - all mountain and enduro. The enduro bikes are bigger, usually heavier, and have a bias towards descending whereas the all mountain bikes place fairly equal importance on climbing and descending feel or ability.

    People are right when they say the new school enduro bikes like the Nomad, Slash, Enduro, Slayer, etc, are big bikes. I own a Nomad. I run a Fox 36 180 with zero stack headset. The bike offers blistering downhill performance and is a solid climber. With 160mm of travel it doesn't quite feel like an XC bike or hard tail and it rewards the rider who can grind out climbs in the 32 tooth or bigger chainring while staying relatively quiet on top of the bike. If you are ok with this you'll find the bike to be quite efficient on the climbs while finding huge amounts of traction - the platform like behavior of VPP does a great job of stabilizing the rear end under power. And did I mention how it was a rocket sled downhill?

    I see some guys talking about the frame being somewhat flexible. I find stiffness to be quite good, but mine is carbon and I'm about 175 pounds.

    The bike was the ideal bike for me but for many (or even most? I'm not sure) riders a Blur LT/SB66/Stumpjumper type all mountain bike could suit them better. A few pounds lighter and still very capable.

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