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  1. #1
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    Tire blew off rim with Stans??

    I just ordered a conversion kit but I heard a couple stories today regarding tubless conversion. A couple riders I spoke to said they had the tire blow right of the rim!!!

    Everything I've read online about Stans is positive. Does anyone have negative thoughts on switching to tubless as far as tire blowouts goes?

    I ride a lot of roots/rocks, typical North East terrain.
    “People fear death even more than pain. It's strange that they fear death. Life hurts a lot more than death." JM

  2. #2
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    You'll be fine. Run just enough pressure to eliminate 'burping'.
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  3. #3
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    Too much pressure can also blow a tire off a rim and also some tires just don't seat well. I try to never run over 35psi and never under 25psi. Higher pressures are just to seat the bead which is very important and I suggest taking lots of extra time working the bead into the socket as good as possible. In general, I recommend being patient when you first start trying tubeless and read the recommendations on Stans site. Or you can just run tubeless tires and usually have an easier time, but not get the weight savings, only the lack of pinch flats.

  4. #4
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    I did my first conversion last year on my front tire with the stans kit. Only had a burp episode on a drop (not enough to cause a crash) and after 6 months (depends on temperatures) I started losing air pressure - had to change the sealant.

    Thinking about converting my rear tire in the near future.

  5. #5
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    Depends on the tire and rim combo. Loose tire fitting on a rim is the basic recipe for a blow out.

    Good signs to look for:
    Rims that support the tire bead on a shelf (the wider it is, the better) to keep it tight
    Thick and sturdy tire bead
    Thick and sturdy tire sidewall
    Beads that "pop" into place when inflating
    Tight tire fit

    Bad signs:
    Loose tire on rim
    - Rims with tall bead hook sidewalls
    - Tire can be rotated the rim while slightly inflated
    Flimsy sidewall
    Thin tire casing

    There's a reason why good conversion strips are thicker at the edges and why they recommend rims with a flat "shelf" for the bead to rest on as opposed to a curving inner rim profile. The bad signs can be fixed by "building up the rim" with tape or whatever--some have successfully converted rims with a curved (no shelf) rim like various carbon clincher rims with foam tape as build-up. If you choose an unideal tire, don't be surprised by any problems you might encounter.

    Also, flimsy tires that fold and twist under their own weight tend to be poor candidates for tubeless conversion. Some of them even get eaten by the solvent that keeps the latex based sealant in liquid form (ie. makes rubber into liquid). Especially if you leave the tire sitting in the same place for a while, and the solvent has days/weeks to pool into a spot and eat the rubber, seep through the casing, and eat the rubber on the other side. *cough* Kenda Nevegal *ahem*

    The best results come from properly designed rims and tires. Something with Stan's rim profile or converting a rim to be like the Stan's rim profile and tires that have a sturdy bead and sidewall to support the thread and keep its profile. Tubeless ready tires (Specialized 2bliss, Geax TNT, WTB TCS, etc.) will work great on such rims. UST is a very well designed inner rim profile with a hump built into the bead shelf to prevent the bead from unseating and doesn't require tape and no guessing regarding BSD (bead seat diameter) and ISO/E.T.R.T.O. with tape buildup to better support the bead. Bonty TLR rims with Bonty tires and WTB TCS wheels with WTB TCS tires produce great results as well.
    Last edited by Varaxis; 08-06-2011 at 11:48 AM.

  6. #6
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    I think the riders you spoke to were referring to the tire 'rolling' off the rim from hard cornering, i.e. the lateral force acting on the tire is great enough to unseat the bead. This is a separate issue from burping. I have managed to roll three different rear tires since going tubeless off the rim while cornering hard (usually drifting into berms), while others don't seem to encounter this issue at all. Thus, I think it will depend largely on your riding style; some riders just don't put enough lateral force on tires for this to be a concern.

  7. #7
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    Mine blew off the rim once already. Attempt #2 this afternoon.

    I have maxxis ardents with folding bead. They are really loose on the rim, so I know that's why. and it will probably happen again. Running more air pressure this time and just hoping my rim doesn't take any hits.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyd3487 View Post
    Mine blew off the rim once already. Attempt #2 this afternoon.

    I have maxxis ardents with folding bead. They are really loose on the rim, so I know that's why. and it will probably happen again. Running more air pressure this time and just hoping my rim doesn't take any hits.
    i had ardents that worked with a normal rim converted tubless, but when i got a tubless specific rim (stans flow) the ardents fit way too loose and blew out pretty quickly into first ride. the ardents have a looser fit than most i think

    you can always put extra tape in the rim to make a tighter seal.

    i've been recommended to pump the tire to max psi to seat it really well when you first get it to seal...this pushes the bead up into the rim (on my flow, it will leak slowly thru the valve back down to about 40psi)

  9. #9
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    I've been doing conversions for years on everything from the downhill to the road bike. I've burped with way too low pressure in rock gardens or on landings, but with a real rimstrip and/or tubeless rim usually the rim will bottom and dent first, ghetto setup is much more prone in rough riding to blowoffs without the tire bead locked under the rim beadhook. The only time I've popped off was dirtjumping and I landed sideways, any tire would have blown off any rim in that situation. If the tire bead is loose enough you can install it totally without levers you're taking chances. On a tire that was tight enough to use levers but won't air up when in the bed I've had success layering tape or using weather stripping meant for windows under the tape/rimstrip. Consult the notubes website, chances are Stan has the solution already figured out for your rim or can give advice.

  10. #10
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    I really have serious reservations about all tubeless conversions, Stan's and ghetto both.

    To me the rim and tire just aren't designed to be used in this way, if they were the rim bead-hook and tire bead wouldn't look the way they do. I had a look at the way a Stan's rim strip sat in my rim, and really I can't see how the tire and rim can hook together as well as they can with a tube. If there have been any tests about how much pressure different aftermarket tubeless tire setups can take, I'd be interested, as being a heavier (200lbs in riding gear) who rides local goat tracks that have sheer cliffs, meaning any tire failure could be potentially deadly.

    For now I might experiment using Stan's on my commuter.

  11. #11
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    I have been using tubeless specific rims mostly Mavic and have a set of Stan's Flow since 03.I have yet to blow off or burp a tire on Mavic's a set of 823's and 819's but have on the Stan's rims,plan to change over the Flows to 819's in my opinion far superior to Stan's.819's are a pretty impressive rim even though more a CC rim I now have them on my El Guapo a full season previously on a LT2 for two seasons,I am not a conservative rider and weight 185 without gear,other then a few small flat spots and dings these rims are tough! Big doubles,drops,high speed berms and rock gardens no worries!

  12. #12
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    Like many have said, tire/rim combo plays a big role. I've watched a friends rear tire blow off the rim after landing a moderate sized drop. He was lucky he didn't crash. Another friend had a front tire blow off and he crashed hard but didn't get hurt. I've been running tubeless for 2 years no issues. I don't recommend single ply non ust tires on non ust rims, both friends mentioned above had this set up.


    Tubeless is messy, can be a pain to set up, and you'll never be 100% safe from a tire rolling off, or blowing off the rim, but it's unlikely you'll experience those things. You will flat many tubes in the field. That's something you can be 100% sure of. Be smart about your rim tire combo, and don't expect a tubeless conversion kit for a non ust rim to allow you to run any tire you want without a tube safely. UST rims go a long way in making tubeless easy and safe.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyd3487 View Post
    Mine blew off the rim once already. Attempt #2 this afternoon.

    I have maxxis ardents with folding bead. They are really loose on the rim, so I know that's why. and it will probably happen again. Running more air pressure this time and just hoping my rim doesn't take any hits.
    Just want to chime in and say I haven't had any problems since that first time. Even with the loose fitting ardents, Just rode yesterday with the same wheelset on my new bike.. works great.

  14. #14
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    I took a pretty small jump maybe a foot high with ghetto tubless at around 36 psi and was fine. but at 30 psi at the same jump. the front tire blew off and really went down hard. Imma try tubeless tires and the actual stan rim strip and ill report later.

  15. #15
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    does burping damage the tire bead? once burped, is it more likely to burp again? I think I didn't have enough pressure in my TCS Weirwolf II...

  16. #16
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    Don't know much about conversion kits but I like running tubeless. I have a pair of Stan's Arch rims, very happy with them. No issues getting the tire mounted and only a couple of small burps.

    Tubeless is the way go with a Mavic or Stan's setup.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by lew242 View Post
    I really have serious reservations about all tubeless conversions, Stan's and ghetto both.

    To me the rim and tire just aren't designed to be used in this way, if they were the rim bead-hook and tire bead wouldn't look the way they do. I had a look at the way a Stan's rim strip sat in my rim, and really I can't see how the tire and rim can hook together as well as they can with a tube. If there have been any tests about how much pressure different aftermarket tubeless tire setups can take, I'd be interested, as being a heavier (200lbs in riding gear) who rides local goat tracks that have sheer cliffs, meaning any tire failure could be potentially deadly.

    For now I might experiment using Stan's on my commuter.
    On my downhill bike I've been using stan's rimstrips on non-tubeless rims, long before anybody else I knew was using it. Calling an order talking with stan himself on the phone years ago he didn't even have the ideal rimstrip for that rim back then, but it worked perfectly. Once running really low pressure in the teens going mach 1 through a rock garden the tire burped for a second but never flatted. As long as the beads are not loose the rimstrips hold air just fine. Play the video on the notubes site with him squeezing the tire to the rim with c-clamps. 5 of my 7 bikes are tubeless from the dh bike to the roadie, the other 2 aren't serious enough bikes for the effort. I'm not exaggerating when I say flats rarely happen anymore, maybe once a year or two, out of allof the tubeless bikes. But then I don't run crazy low pressure, maybe about 5 or so less than I would with tubes.

  18. #18
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    Burping does not damage the bead.

    BTW I have blown tires with tubes off the rims as much I have burped tubeless setups with Stans. There are probably a few setups like the Ardents where you have to be more careful, but overall it works really, really well.

  19. #19
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    happened to me twice. one was on old bike with shimano tubeless rims and conti tubeless tires. another one happened on my new bike, stans flows with conti diesel. both fronts. not sure why as it never happened before or after, fortunatelly both occured at the begining of the ride going up so no damage to bike or me. both rides were at high elevation 10000ft above, i was thinking maybe change in pressure, otherwise not sure.

  20. #20
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    I also ride in New England and I've been messing around with tubeless lately. On my XC rig (Yeti ASR5C) I have a set of Stan's Crest rims and I've mounted 2.4 Conty Trail Kings, 2.4 Ardent's, 2.25 Ardent, and 2.25 Racing Ralphs. I did have my front tire blow off the rim up at Kingdom Trails on a high speed turn. I was thrown hard and was lucky that I didn't get damaged. Otherwise, it's been stellar at keeping the flats away on this bike.

    My primary bike is a Knolly Delirium and I'm running Stan's Flow rims with 2.4 1 ply Ardents. I haven't had great luck with this combo. If I run pressure in the mid to upper 20's I end up blowing it off the rim at some point during the ride. I also had a couple of larger gashes that Stan's couldn't seal up.

    Another thing to note is that when my tires were new I could set the bead with a floor pump. Once the tires broke in I couldn't get it to set unless I used a compressor. I wouldn't mess with any tubeless w/o access to a compressor.

    Pros:
    - Thorn flats disappear .
    - Weight savings is instantly noticeable.
    - When it's working you don't even think about it.

    Cons:
    - For rougher riding you need higher pressure
    - Possibility of tires blowing off w/wrong pressure and/or certain tire rim combo
    - Swapping tires and repairing flats gets messy
    - Compressor access makes things more practical.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    I also ride in New England and I've been messing around with tubeless lately. On my XC rig (Yeti ASR5C) I have a set of Stan's Crest rims and I've mounted 2.4 Conty Trail Kings, 2.4 Ardent's, 2.25 Ardent, and 2.25 Racing Ralphs. I did have my front tire blow off the rim up at Kingdom Trails on a high speed turn. I was thrown hard and was lucky that I didn't get damaged. Otherwise, it's been stellar at keeping the flats away on this bike.

    My primary bike is a Knolly Delirium and I'm running Stan's Flow rims with 2.4 1 ply Ardents. I haven't had great luck with this combo. If I run pressure in the mid to upper 20's I end up blowing it off the rim at some point during the ride. I also had a couple of larger gashes that Stan's couldn't seal up.

    Another thing to note is that when my tires were new I could set the bead with a floor pump. Once the tires broke in I couldn't get it to set unless I used a compressor. I wouldn't mess with any tubeless w/o access to a compressor.

    Pros:
    - Thorn flats disappear .
    - Weight savings is instantly noticeable.
    - When it's working you don't even think about it.

    Cons:
    - For rougher riding you need higher pressure
    - Possibility of tires blowing off w/wrong pressure and/or certain tire rim combo
    - Swapping tires and repairing flats gets messy
    - Compressor access makes things more practical.


    I agree with the pros/cons list but wanted to add that I've had good success running low psi in rough chunky terrain. I don't even burp that much. This is with crossmax sx, and spec sx 2.3 and 2.5 tires. I've heard my front rim contact rock a few times because of low pressure. I'm probably pushing my luck a bit, but no issues yet.

    My advice to anyone trying out tubeless is stay away from non ust singly ply tires and think about investing in a good ust rim. Mavic's design has worked the best for me. Stan's was ok, but tires set up easier and burp less with mavic. I've had ok success with non ust rims, but set up was always more difficult, and I burped more. I don't know how comfortable I would feel now with non ust tires and rims now that I know how solid mavic ust tubeless is.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnyd3487 View Post
    Mine blew off the rim once already. Attempt #2 this afternoon.

    I have maxxis ardents with folding bead. They are really loose on the rim, so I know that's why. and it will probably happen again. Running more air pressure this time and just hoping my rim doesn't take any hits.
    Once a tire blew off it is useless for tubeless. It will happen to it again.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    I did have my front tire blow off the rim up at Kingdom Trails on a high speed turn....

    Stan's Flow rims with 2.4 1 ply Ardents. I haven't had great luck with this combo. If I run pressure in the mid to upper 20's I end up blowing it off the rim at some point during the ride. I also had a couple of larger gashes that Stan's couldn't seal up....

    Once the tires broke in I couldn't get it to set unless I used a compressor. I wouldn't mess with any tubeless w/o access to a compressor.
    Those are communications to you that your particular set-up is a risk.

    Varaxis's post above nailed when to use and not to use.
    loose = loose interface = easy to come off/burp

    For me, a few dollars for tires with a tubeless ready bead is less expensive than a hospital bill.

    IMHO, in a few years, almost all tires will have a TL bead.

    P

  24. #24
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    All these comments are exactly why when I decided to go tubeless, I went UST. I have Mavic 823's and for a year and a half now, I've never even had so much as a burp. I weigh 215 without gear also. I definitely don't ride easy and I ride in some of the roughest terrain around in AZ. Nothing but big jagged rocks and thorns everywhere. I've had one flat in the 1.5 years and that was because I sliced the tire open with a 2 in gash on a sharp rock. UST is safer and worth the extra money in my opinion.
    "Don't feel bad. A lot of people have no talent"

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunerinaz View Post
    All these comments are exactly why when I decided to go tubeless, I went UST. I have Mavic 823's and for a year and a half now, I've never even had so much as a burp. I weigh 215 without gear also. I definitely don't ride easy and I ride in some of the roughest terrain around in AZ. Nothing but big jagged rocks and thorns everywhere. I've had one flat in the 1.5 years and that was because I sliced the tire open with a 2 in gash on a sharp rock. UST is safer and worth the extra money in my opinion.
    I've had a similar positive experience as you, but with good rim strips (DT Swiss & Bontrager that have beadlocks) or Flows & wire bead or TL ready bead tires. XC to NorthStar. 3 years +.

    P

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