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  1. #1
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    Suspension travel hype

    Has everyone noticed how much travel bikes have these days for an "All Mountain" bike? Yesterday I was riding a local trail system that is super smooth, on my cyclocross bike and I pass a guy that had an Ellsworth with a Totem?? Most of the trails where I live, a bike with 4 inches of travel is more then plenty, it's definitely not flat here, but any technical portion of a trail or drops can be tackled with 4 inches. On trips to Moab and Northstar this year I saw more and more riders on bigger travel bikes, but what strikes me is that they aren't being used even close to their full potential, just being pedaled around like an oversized XC bike.

    I think alot of people are caught up in the marketing hype of more travel=better bike. Don't get me wrong, I am no XC weenie,and I have seen others with the same or lesser bikes riding them hard, and I like drops and smaller jumps, (not much here, but on trips.)

    I am not posting this to start a flaming war and anybody that rides, gets the howdy from me. But really, what do you think? Anybody else notice this?

  2. #2
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    ya, its alot of hype. unless you are doing 50 foot gaps and insane dropoffs theres realy no need for more than 6 inches of travel. I ride National and Geronimo here at south mountain with 5 inches. Sure it makes it alot easer going down hill if your bike is as soft as a couch but what about pedaling back up.

  3. #3
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    Has it ever crossed your mind that they have long travel bikes because they like to ride elsewhere and they don't have the funds to have a stable of trail specific steeds? Just a thought.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScareyH22A
    Has it ever crossed your mind that they have long travel bikes because they like to ride elsewhere and they don't have the funds to have a stable of trail specific steeds? Just a thought.
    While this may be true in general, something tells me that since the rider mentioned was on an Ellsworth, it's not the case in this particular scenario...
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  5. #5
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    that may be true, but you can tell some of these guys just walked into a bike shop with too much money, and too little information, and got sold the wrong bike, show them videos of what their bikes are really capable of, and they'd crap their pants.

  6. #6
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    Yeah, I think travel numbers get too much attention. 5" of well tuned travel can handle a lot more than people seem to realize. What is far more important is the geometry and build. However, those things are hard to quantify with a number, whereas travel is easy.

    What really cracks me up are these 28 lb 6.5" travel bikes. Sorry, but if you really need 6.5" travel, then your 28lb bike is in big trouble.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berkley
    While this may be true in general, something tells me that since the rider mentioned was on an Ellsworth, it's not the case in this particular scenario...
    Or they wanted a nice rig suited for the place they usually ride and don't buy into the hype that says they need a different bike for every different situation...

  8. #8
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    Am just means that you have enough travel and the right geo to do all discipline of mtbing. If put to a number the max travel is 165mm. So the guy on the totem would die on the uphill... so it's not AM but if he had uturn or two step he could go up the hill without dying. On the other hand the real odd trend is the lighter the better for FR DH and AM. But I worry all the weight weenies over at hq are going to forget about the strenght of the frame or fork.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by headstrong356
    Am just means that you have enough travel and the right geo to do all discipline of mtbing. If put to a number the max travel is 165mm. So the guy on the totem would die on the uphill... so it's not AM but if he had uturn or two step he could go up the hill without dying. On the other hand the real odd trend is the lighter the better for FR DH and AM. But I worry all the weight weenies over at hq are going to forget about the strenght of the frame or fork.

    U-turn doesnt make THAT big of a difference..... maybe you climbing uber gnarly hills but at least from my experience it doesnt make that big of a diff going uphill

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  10. #10
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    I'll say that I don't own a full suspension bike, yet, but it does seem a little overwhelming to me the amount of suspension that folks "need." I haven't had much opportunity to ride a full susser, and no opportunity on an actual trail, but do you even need 5" of travel? How much difference does that extra inch to inch + 1/2 over an xc full susser make? I am taking some time to really learn about this before buying a bike since I plan to spend a fair amount and don't have funds for multiples.

  11. #11
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    you can get a new 6 inch bike that pedals better than older 4 inch bikes. you can muscle up a climb, but you cant really stretch out a short travel bike to go down.

    nothing wrong with it. who cares what other people want to ride.

  12. #12
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    Its all in the flow....

    Quote Originally Posted by ScareyH22A
    Has it ever crossed your mind that they have long travel bikes because they like to ride elsewhere and they don't have the funds to have a stable of trail specific steeds? Just a thought.
    Thats what I did... when all I owned was a Bulit with a Jr T up front I rocked that on all day rides, super gnarly rides with monster rocks and angry east coast roots, on supper buff loops that were super local (local being the key...). On the same local trails i have used a 24" bmx bike to rip with and a 100mm HT later on.

    Now I'm on a nomad with a van 36 up front. Now I will not need all of the travel at every point on my rides, but I will use at least 99% of it at some point in my "average" ride. I ride my uphills so I can rip the DHs. Thats how I get my flow, from the tech down hills. I could ride the tech down hills on my 100mm ht, but I have more fun on the longer legged bikes. And I'm not racing so who cares how long it takes me to ride to the top, as long as my legs can get me there.

    I select my bikes to suite my style of ridding... not how I'm judged when I'm met on the trail. So if you get off on your 5" dont worry if the guy in behind of you has 8" (unless you are in prison).

  13. #13
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    dude that was funny!-Who cares what anyone else is riding as long as they are not barreling over children, dogs, etc while screaming down the trails on their big bike. We are all out their enjoying the same sport stop say hello, bullsh*&t a little and ride on. I have to agree with other posts I ride mostly in an area that is suited to longer travel but I still enjoy riding in other sreas when I have time to carve out a saturday and drive somewhere. If the area is XC-ish I might look funny to some in my fullface helmet etc.. but it's what I got and I cant afford anything else.

  14. #14
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    different strokes from different folks. the important things is that they love riding their rigs so much that it motivates them to ride it wherever. you also have to consider the fact that there are riders, such as myself, who prefers the additional squish to compensate for the lack of skill.
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  15. #15
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    Everybody rides what they think is best. I just don't think that suspension travel is one of the most important things to make me like a bike.

    Frame geometry and durability make such a big difference: handling, riding position. Of course, my body geometry does not really get along with bikes that have tall forks. Give me a tough bike that does not have too much suspension travel.

  16. #16
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    I think its funny to think about riders talking about this subject not many years ago.

    "These kids today think they need 4" of suspension travel for downhill riding. Why would anyone need more that 3" of travel for any type of riding?"

    Now it has just moved from 4" to 6" and AM instead of downhill, but the convo is still the same.
    Last edited by Cypher32x; 10-25-2008 at 08:31 AM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuna
    I think alot of people are caught up in the marketing hype of more travel=better bike.
    I'd bet that the vast majority of mountain bikers are on hardtails or 4" to 5" travel bikes, regardless of the "hype" that we're bombarded with in magazines and on the internet.

    An "all-mountain" bike with more (6"+) travel usually also have some of these characteristics:
    • slacker geometry, especially the HTA. Some riders (like me) prefer a 67 or 68 degree headtube angle, many bikes with less travel have steeper angles.
    • comes with, or can handle, and big, thick-stanchioned fork like a Fox 36, Marzocchi 55 or 66 or RS Lyrik or Totem. A beefier fork with 20mm TA is stiffer than its smaller brethren, which is desirable for some riders regardless of the amount of travel they choose to use. Also, some of these forks have travel adjust so if 6" or 7" is too much for the terrain (or the geometry becomes too slack for climbing) then they can be dialed down to suit the rider's preference at the moment.
    • they smooth out the trail very well. Bikes with more travel almost eliminate trail chatter and plow through rougher sections with ease.
    • they can serve as the "one bike" - they pedal just fine for standard "trail riding", but can also handle aggressive terrain, lift assisted riding, etc. better than a lesser travel bike.

    These things don't mean that a long travel all mountain bike is better bike for every rider. It's up to each rider to decide whether they like these characteristics or not. And even for those that do, a long-travel AM bike is not really an ideal solution but more of a compromise...

    Compared to a 4" travel bike:
    • it's usually heavier
    • it doesn't pedal as efficiently
    • the geometry isn't as good for climbing (even with a travel adjust fork it's less than ideal)

    Compared to a dedicated freeride or DH bike:
    • it has less travel
    • its angles may be a bit steeper than desired for rough, steep terrain
    • the components may not perform as well in this environment or be as durable


    I've tried to do the ~6" travel bike as the one bike solution and it didn't work out for me. I still have one as my main trail bike, but also have a rigid for smooth trail riding and a 8" FR bike for lift-assisted riding. I do feel I'm fortunate to have three bikes to suit these different types of riding.

    I also think most people ultimately end up riding what works for them and are not totally driven by marketing. If someone does purchase a bike based on hype alone they usually quickly determine if it was a right move or not. If so, they keep the bike. If not, it goes on the auction block and the get something more suitable.

    I say "ride on" to the guy riding the Totem on smooth trails.

  18. #18
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    I own 3 bikes. A hardtail, 5 inch FS trail bike, and a 34lb 6.5 inch travel SC Bullit.
    Out of those bikes I like to ride the Bullit the most, even on 6 hour XC rides.
    Is it overkill for some of my rides? Probably but I like the fit and geometry better than my other bikes..
    To me that's all that counts...

  19. #19
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    I ride my cyclocross bike on the same trails as my mountain bike(s) but I ride them in different ways, hitting different features, focusing more on the enjoyment of the climbs and picking a nervous, nimble line on the cross bike, doing jumps on another bike, etc.
    Last edited by M_S; 10-26-2008 at 08:24 PM.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrumble69
    ...Bullit ... I like the fit and geometry better than my other bikes..
    To me that's all that counts...
    So, if you had the same fit and geometry with less travel?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by M_S
    I ride my cyclocross bike on the same trails as my mountain bike(s) but I ride them in different ways, hittign different features, focusing more ont he enjoyment of the climbs and picking a nervous, nimble line on the cross bike, doing jumps on another bike, etc.
    I find this thread to be funny. Definitely a lot to be said for enjoying different bikes in different ways, even on the same trails!

    Right now, my "AM" bike isn't being ridden, the pivots are a bit funky but I'm too busy to sort it out... so as a result, I've been spending time the last few weeks doing short hour long rides in the local (easy/boring "xc" smooth trails) on my FR/DH bike, with my clips thrown on and with it's wonderful chopped seatpost. I have a great time ripping around on it, and it kicks my arse. Sure I'm slow on flats and climbs... but hey, I'm having a blast. Sure if I had a fully rigid bike or a cx bike I would probably be faster and all on these trails, but I don't have one, and riding my DH bike is so much fun anyways. Ride what you like and enjoy it!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuna
    Has everyone noticed how much travel bikes have these days for an "All Mountain" bike? Yesterday I was riding a local trail system that is super smooth, on my cyclocross bike and I pass a guy that had an Ellsworth with a Totem??
    Maybe he came down from the Ridge via Sweet Connie or 5 Mile/Orchard and just happened to be on the smooth part of the trail at the same time as you on his way home...

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    So, if you had the same fit and geometry with less travel?
    Add low cost and less weight to that list and I've been looking for that for quite a while now..

    I'd still keep the Bullit though..It's a fun bike that can take a beating and still do it all.
    Last edited by mcrumble69; 10-26-2008 at 08:54 AM.

  24. #24
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    +1 for this scenario. I had a HT which was fine for my local trails but going up to the in-laws there are rougher trails beating me up pretty good and I decided to get a FS that would be more suited to these trails, which I ride 20% of the season rather than my local XC oriented trails for the remainder. I ended up with a 6x6 and it actually rides better uphill in the xc twisties than my HT (although to be fair I was convinced by the shop that the HT frame was the right size when it is actually too big - not too happy with that shop). Anyways I got my FS for tougher trails elsewhere - rational, logical, smart or not that is why I am riding my 6x6 on the local xc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jekyll_Jockey
    Thats what I did... when all I owned was a Bulit with a Jr T up front I rocked that on all day rides, super gnarly rides with monster rocks and angry east coast roots, on supper buff loops that were super local (local being the key...). On the same local trails i have used a 24" bmx bike to rip with and a 100mm HT later on.

    Now I'm on a nomad with a van 36 up front. Now I will not need all of the travel at every point on my rides, but I will use at least 99% of it at some point in my "average" ride. I ride my uphills so I can rip the DHs. Thats how I get my flow, from the tech down hills. I could ride the tech down hills on my 100mm ht, but I have more fun on the longer legged bikes. And I'm not racing so who cares how long it takes me to ride to the top, as long as my legs can get me there.

    I select my bikes to suite my style of ridding... not how I'm judged when I'm met on the trail. So if you get off on your 5" dont worry if the guy in behind of you has 8" (unless you are in prison).

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kortface
    ya, its alot of hype. unless you are doing 50 foot gaps and insane dropoffs theres realy no need for more than 6 inches of travel. I ride National and Geronimo here at south mountain with 5 inches. Sure it makes it alot easer going down hill if your bike is as soft as a couch but what about pedaling back up.
    This post was a flashback to like 2000.

    Sorry, but lots of people are pedaling up on longer travel, heavier rigs. It's doable and a pleasure when one can simply use one bike for everything and do everything the trail can offer.

  26. #26
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    I have always pondered the travel question. i like the slacker geo. but want the efficancy. then they came out with the new marin wolf ridge, with a 67 deg, head angle and 5.5 inches of good quality travel and reliability you cant go wrong.
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  27. #27
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    Under 6" is boring :P

    The best way to sum it up for me is the "fun factor" associated with longer travel... I have two rides, a Ells Epiphany (light as hell, climbs like a goat), and an Intense 6.6 (sub 30 lbs).

    I have decided that while the Ells is an amazing bike, handles well, climbs insane, corners at high speed, etc. it's just not as "fun". It makes me work a bit more, be more picky about lines, and isn't as forgiving when you hit really rough stuff.

    The Intense climbs excellent, I often pass many others on the local rides. But it shines on every other part of the trail. Cornering, descending, rough stuff, etc. It just doesn't care where you go on the trail, or what line, just lean back and enjoy where Mt Biking has taken us these days.

    I test rode the Intense Tracer on local trails, and IMO 6" travel isn't really even that great (live in the Pac NW).

    Anyway, Intense makes me look forward to riding and having a blast, while other bikes were always more about getting motivated to get outside, exercise, etc.

  28. #28
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    Did some mellow local trail riding a few months back and came across a guy on a Bullit / DC fork / single DH ring. Thought to myself wrong bike for the area buddy. I began my ride about the same time as he did.On the first extended climb he passed me w/ a smile on my face - respect anything anyone rides. Just because some riders feel empowered riding a hardtail doesn't mean the guy on a 7" bike isn't entitled to feel the same.

  29. #29
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    I think all of this can be summed up by

    My bike is better then your bike.

    But seriously, I'm running a 42 pound 7 inch travel DH bike for my "everything bike." Yes, I could do my xc rides twice as fast (or maybe more), but then I wouldn't get to hit those 5 foot drops, or do that big jump. Yes, there are people who ride the same trails I do on 6 inch travel bikes (well, not all of the trails), and a couple of them (though uncommon) even do them faster then me. Theres a couple jumps that I do (15 foot gaps etc) that people do on pretty much everything. My friend just did it on his hardtail with an RST fork and threw a barhump on the way.

    Could I get away with that? hell no, I case hard 2-3 times a ride, short a drop, overshoot a drop, land flat, etc. I beat the crap out of my stuff. Are there people who can do it on a shorter AM bike? Brian Lopes could probably do a 360 on his ibis mojo and run the frame for 4 years on the stuff I ride. I would probably break it within a month through being a hack.

    But heres the most important judgement for whats a good bike: I enjoy my bike more then any other bike out there. I finish each ride with a smile on my face, and it lets me do everything I want to. Sure, its not ideal for a long grind up hill, but it just makes me more stoked to pass some guy on their 4 inch mojo with all the gear.

    More suspension is usually better. Karpiel Apocolypse anybody?!

  30. #30
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    if i ever see a dude rippin on a bike that the mags tell us is not suited for the terrain im like... awesome amigo.. ur hardcore.. that includes XC bikes on DH course and geezers stomping big DH bikes up hills!

    Also remember that lots of people have different agendas to you.. you might be like why bring that big rig on this XC route not knowing that there are some nice jumps and or drops a few miles away which they will sessioning.. thats kinda the riding I like!

    ALL GOOD!

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuna
    I think alot of people are caught up in the marketing hype of more travel=better bike. Don't get me wrong, I am no XC weenie,and I have seen others with the same or lesser bikes riding them hard, and I like drops and smaller jumps, (not much here, but on trips.)
    really, who cares what other people ride?

    I ride a Turner RFX as my only bike because: 1. I will only own 1 bike 2. It is the perfect bike for many of the trails I ride 3. I't dosent do too badly on the flats, and 4. I needed a very burly bike with a TA because I am tall and heavy.

    When I ride I really try and turn off that little voice in my head that likes to judge and evaluate everything.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cypher32x
    I think its funny to think about riders talking about this subject not many years ago.

    "These kids today think they need 4" of suspension travel for downhill riding. Why would anyone need more that 3" of travel for any type of riding?"

    Now it has just moved from 4" to 6" and AM instead of downhill, but the convo is still the same.
    Even before that,...
    "I dont need no stinkin suspension fork, I aint a wussy. My arms and legs provide all the suspension I'll ever need. Its a fad, it'll never catch on"

    we all know how that ended up.

    The person is out riding, does it really matter what kind of bike for any trail they are riding on?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuna
    Has everyone noticed how much travel bikes have these days for an "All Mountain" bike? Yesterday I was riding a local trail system that is super smooth, on my cyclocross bike and I pass a guy that had an Ellsworth with a Totem?? Most of the trails where I live, a bike with 4 inches of travel is more then plentyI.....

    Anybody else notice this?
    Yeah it's true. What's even sadder is when someone posts a "what bike" in these forums the answer is invariably get an AM bike..... Without even asking what kind of terrain they ride. For the majority of people who bought into one of these, they would have been better off with a 4-5" FS (the not quite race, or "trail" models). Most people go out and xc/trail ride and should be recommended something accordingly. Why put them on something slow because that's what they have? Very few are really going to go out and look for 5" drop offs and as you suggest, a 4 or 5 inch trail bike would be more than enough.

    I recently agreed with someone that they should have a dedicated XC/Trail thread. Something between XC Racing and AM for the majority of people who go to their local trail networks to ride. As a former elite sr. mens racer and bmx'er, I wouldn't recomend a racer geometry HT just because it is noticably faster, nimbler, and a better climber than any AM, or my current "trail" bike which means it's faster over 85% of the terrain at these networks.

  34. #34
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    Like others have pointed out, I prefer geometry over travel. But most bikes with shorter travel have steeper geo. There are some new options that give slack with small travel as others have mentioned.

    I do set up my suspension to be very plush. So I do use just about every inch on the trails around here. I run a 180mm 66RC2X up front and have 160mm in the back. Not all my trails have 5' drops on them but some do. I like very plush suspension on the way down. My bike climbs really well so I don't suffer on the climbs too bad.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    Like others have pointed out, I prefer geometry over travel. But most bikes with shorter travel have steeper geo. There are some new options that give slack with small travel as others have mentioned.

    I do set up my suspension to be very plush. So I do use just about every inch on the trails around here. I run a 180mm 66RC2X up front and have 160mm in the back. Not all my trails have 5' drops on them but some do. I like very plush suspension on the way down. My bike climbs really well so I don't suffer on the climbs too bad.
    You got it! Geo for me is number one for all day riding. It is worth it to me to pedal an extra five pounds, and deal with extra squish for hours on end to be able to charge a big boulder and launch off the other side when I can. I have a buddy that rides a P2 on the trails. He gets even more guff than I do for having a long travel bike in MN, but he rips the down hills and will jump off anything I point out (Inculding the roof of the hair salon a few weeks ago ) all with no squish in the back and 4 inches up front. It just works for him, like longer travel works for most of the folks reading the posts in this forum. If you want to race you better choose your equipment based on the terrain. If you want to ride you need a bike and not much else.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by kapusta
    Yeah, I think travel numbers get too much attention. 5" of well tuned travel can handle a lot more than people seem to realize. What is far more important is the geometry and build. However, those things are hard to quantify with a number, whereas travel is easy.

    What really cracks me up are these 28 lb 6.5" travel bikes. Sorry, but if you really need 6.5" travel, then your 28lb bike is in big trouble.
    Travel does get a lot of attention, but I agree that geometry also should be a factor. I have a 5x5 bike that was called "all mountain" when it came out. In reality, it is a long travel XC bike for a Clyde like me who needs the extra when on trails or XC rides. I've taken it to the local park and it most certainly is *not* a park bike.

    My next ride will be in the 6-7" class...not because I am looking at going evil kenevil on it, but rather because it'll generally have the geo and stiffness I want. The travel will likely be underutilized until I go to the local park (or do a trip to Panorama or Whistler), but for me, it'll fit the other ways and be the "one bike" for me and my current (and near future) style of riding.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    Like others have pointed out, I prefer geometry over travel. But most bikes with shorter travel have steeper geo. There are some new options that give slack with small travel as others have mentioned.
    Agreed.

    Working on now trying to tweek my current rig into something with the same (or close to) geometry, but with less travel. Lower, shorter, less travel, still beefy, but with the same geometry? Should give me slightly shorter stays as well, which I like.

    Sign me up.

    Otherwise, big bikes or small, so long as someone is having a good time riding whatever they're riding, then who cares?
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  38. #38
    M_S
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    BTW I rode my 'cross bike on some steep technical trails today and my hands hurt. Maybe I should put a Totem on it???

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by M_S
    BTW I rode my 'cross bike on some steep technical trails today and my hands hurt. Maybe I should put a Totem on it???
    Troll, much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    Agreed.

    Working on now trying to tweek my current rig into something with the same (or close to) geometry, but with less travel. Lower, shorter, less travel, still beefy, but with the same geometry? Should give me slightly shorter stays as well, which I like.

    Sign me up.

    Otherwise, big bikes or small, so long as someone is having a good time riding whatever they're riding, then who cares?
    I really like the specs of the Marin Wolfridge. Look at the Corsair Marque. Even the Giant Reign now has a 68 deg HA with a 140mm fork. 160mm puts you at 67deg.
    I like the ability to change the bikes geo with part swaps.
    Like adjust the wheelbase with swappable dropouts.
    Another option is to spec a bike with a 7.875 x 2.0 shock. That way you can lower BB and slack bike with a 7.5 x 2.0 shock or add travel by going to a 7.875 x 2.25" shock.
    Options are nice...

  41. #41
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    Wow

    Lots of interesting responses, again my point wasn't trying to judge the rider and as I posted anybody out riding gets the hello from me, but it just seems like a lot of focus is on travel instead of like others have suggested, geometery (I know I have had some nice bikes that I hated because due to geometery) or maybe the type of terrain they will be riding in. Just thought maybe the marketing guys were sneaking up on us like the CNC parts fad of the 90s or the neon or anodized fad (wait, I think this one is coming back.) Whatever you ride enjoy the trail!

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    Quote Originally Posted by M_S
    BTW I rode my 'cross bike on some steep technical trails today and my hands hurt. Maybe I should put a Totem on it???
    why stop there? they'd hurt less with a super monster and 12 inches of travel, and we want the best for your hands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuna
    Lots of interesting responses, again my point wasn't trying to judge the rider and as I posted anybody out riding gets the hello from me, but it just seems like a lot of focus is on travel instead of like others have suggested, geometery (I know I have had some nice bikes that I hated because due to geometery) or maybe the type of terrain they will be riding in. Just thought maybe the marketing guys were sneaking up on us like the CNC parts fad of the 90s or the neon or anodized fad (wait, I think this one is coming back.) Whatever you ride enjoy the trail!
    A lot of it is marketing hype so as to get you believing you need more travel to keep up (with the Jones'?) and sell more bikes. OTOH I've seen just the opposite here in OR where most of us are ditching our 8-9" travel FR/DH bikes in favor of "aggressive" 6-7" travel AM bikes with slacker HA's because they're lighter and jump better at parks and local FR destinations. When the dust settles I fully expect to see the AM segment dominated by lighter 5-6" travel bikes and a new SS/DJ segment dominated by 6-7" travel bikes and the AM 6" do-all bike to all but disappear because they don't really excel in any one area. Things will get more distinct in the near future; at least that's how I see it.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    Last edited by Gman086; 10-27-2008 at 03:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    Lower, shorter, less travel, still beefy, but with the same geometry?
    On-One has done an interesting variation of their 456 hardtail: the "Summer Season" with about 66 to 67 degree head angle with a 5" fork. Apparently, they figured that lots of people were using tall forks just to get a slack head angle, and saw that there must be a better way to acchieve that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kuna
    Yesterday I was riding a local trail system that is super smooth, on my cyclocross bike and I pass a guy that had an Ellsworth with a Totem?? ?
    Guilty of this myself. Nothing like riding an over-specced, under-utilized bike on a trail with nothing bigger than a pebble to launch my rolling behemoth over.

    Whats worse. I was invited to do some push runs down a DH short course and put on my Sky Trooper gear only to be blitzed by a by a bunch of guys on XC bikes!

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    Yeah, I looked at that the other day. Looks very nice.

    Next time I'm in the market for a new hardtail frame, something like that will be the ticket.


    Quote Originally Posted by perttime
    On-One has done an interesting variation of their 456 hardtail: the "Summer Season" with about 66 to 67 degree head angle with a 5" fork. Apparently, they figured that lots of people were using tall forks just to get a slack head angle, and saw that there must be a better way to acchieve that.
    Florence Nightingale's Stormtrooper

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    Quote Originally Posted by other aardvark
    Guilty of this myself. Nothing like riding an over-specced, under-utilized bike on a trail with nothing bigger than a pebble to launch my rolling behemoth over.

    Whats worse. I was invited to do some push runs down a DH short course and put on my Sky Trooper gear only to be blitzed by a by a bunch of guys on XC bikes!
    who cares? when you fall, you don't go to the hospital.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wormvine
    Like others have pointed out, I prefer geometry over travel. But most bikes with shorter travel have steeper geo. There are some new options that give slack with small travel as others have mentioned.

    I do set up my suspension to be very plush. So I do use just about every inch on the trails around here. I run a 180mm 66RC2X up front and have 160mm in the back. Not all my trails have 5' drops on them but some do. I like very plush suspension on the way down. My bike climbs really well so I don't suffer on the climbs too bad.
    See, and I went the other way. I picked a trail bike, 5" travel, with a relatively steep HA and low BB (compared to AM's and some trail, but not race). I also ended up with my suspension on the slightly stiff side. I guess it's the racer in me coming through. My preference is for the speed and agility and I'm willing to give up some on the DH's.

    Remember too that everything is relative. If AM'ers took their bikes out with fast trail riders and racers types they'd suffer on the climbs and single track. Just like the types of riders will suffer going down some of the crazy terrain I see the true AM'ers riding. And there are exceptions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nm_gunslinger
    See, and I went the other way. I picked a trail bike, 5" travel, with a relatively steep HA and low BB (compared to AM's and some trail, but not race). I also ended up with my suspension on the slightly stiff side. I guess it's the racer in me coming through. My preference is for the speed and agility and I'm willing to give up some on the DH's.

    Remember too that everything is relative. If AM'ers took their bikes out with fast trail riders and racers types they'd suffer on the climbs and single track. Just like the types of riders will suffer going down some of the crazy terrain I see the true AM'ers riding. And there are exceptions.
    meh, its the rider not the bike. My friend just took 1st in pro in a super D race (never having raced super D in his life, always having been a downhill type) on an SX Trail. The trail wasn't particularly gnarly, he just has the drive to push himself harder then everybody else. Likewise I regularly pass people on little xc bikes while i'm on an 8 inch travel DH bike going up the hill. I also get passed by people on rigid 29'ers and on AM bikes. Would I be faster with a smaller bike? probably a bit, but I bet if I had a rigid 29er those same dudes would still destroy me on the hills, and I bet I would tend to pass/get passed by the same groups of people. Bikes don't make nearly the difference in your ability to climb a hill as people make them out to (tires do though! I can't climb for crap with my DH tires on). If somebodies confidence goes up because they bought a certain bike, cool, then it played a secondary role in making the rider better, but a "true AM rider" who doesn't go up the hills as fast as you probably wouldn't go up the hills as fast as you no matter what bike they're on.

  50. #50
    M_S
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover
    Troll, much?
    Not really. Previous post in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by M_S
    I ride my cyclocross bike on the same trails as my mountain bike(s) but I ride them in different ways, hitting different features, focusing more on the enjoyment of the climbs and picking a nervous, nimble line on the cross bike, doing jumps on another bike, etc.
    I think my position is similar to yours.

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