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  1. #1
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    San Andreas Thread - Ugly is Beautiful

    Ugly is Beautiful

    The San Andreas Classic - This is a tribute to the most versatile MTB frame on the market. It has only slightly changed over its 15 year existence (until the DNA). Oh - it be ugly - no need to beat that dead horse. It is "AM" and pedals like a VPP bike.

    It rides much like the Santa Cruz Heckler and other similar single pivot frames but is way more adjustable. You can set it up as a 4.5" travel slightly heavy XC machine (6.5" i-i shock) or 6" travel+ (7.5" i-i) with only changing the rear shock and mount locations. Head tube angle and seat tube angles are adjustable. You can run any travel fork from 3" to 6"+ and keep the same geometry by moving the shock mounts two bolts. The bear frame weighs 6.5lbs without rear shock. That's not too bad for 6" travel.

    So - please post your San Andreas pics and tips.

    Frame positives - Versatile, adjustable, NO CHAIN SUCK - EVER, no-bob pedaling without VPP or stable platform, time proven design, single pivot simplicity, high BB (Good for east cost), fairly light weight, clean cable routing, it's an eye catcher.

    Frame negatives - UGLY to some, brake jack, chain tug sensation when climbing in rough, the high BB may be disconcerting to some, bad for some bike transport racks

    ***************************
    I currently ride a 2000 Andreas - see pic. I had a 2003 and sold it for a VP-Free. The Free was too heavy for my riding. I also have a new 2005 Andreas Classic frame waiting in the wings for when I retire this one.

    Let's see more pics....
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    In the intrest of being real, Here are some other issues SA.....
    1) Noise..lots of it! The frame acts like a drum, what would be a little creak on any other bike can be heard a 100 yards away with the SA....
    2) Those water bottle mounts on top of the frame!!!!! The frame has a 28 inch standover hight in the 6inch setting.......two words......nut sack. Look at the picture.....nuf said
    3) The sub frame is a weak point( the thing that holds the seatpost).....broke 3 of them in 2 years...SA replaced them, but it was a 2 week wait each time.
    4) The sheet al frame can( and will) be dented. Flat, thin al sheet = dents....
    5) Everyone will know when you crash! Because of the design of the SA, when you pack it in, It can sound like someone though a case of empty beer cans down a rock field......


    good pints..........cheap, you will almost never see another one on on the trail.
    Last edited by MUSTCLIME; 06-20-2006 at 11:40 AM.

  3. #3
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    cracked sub-frame mount.
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    Last edited by Guyechka; 06-20-2006 at 09:40 AM.

  4. #4
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    ok so how high is the bb in the 6in setting for 05/06? and how does it feel ?im 5ft 6in and wondering if it would be too much for me to ride on east coast trails.

  5. #5
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    It's up in around 14"+

    I'll measure tonight and let you know.

    No doubt the San Andreas has a very high BB in any setting.
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    Huh?

    Mine is a replacement for a 2004 model. With Pikes and a 5th coil, the BB comes in at 16.5". I suppose you could mess around with the head angle and drop the BB a little, but I don't think it's going to go below 14". Dude, add some bling gold wheels with whitewalls and cruise the blvd on your lowrider.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka
    Mine is a replacement for a 2004 model. With Pikes and a 5th coil, the BB comes in at 16.5". I suppose you could mess around with the head angle and drop the BB a little, but I don't think it's going to go below 14". Dude, add some bling gold wheels with whitewalls and cruise the blvd on your lowrider.
    WOW 16.5! how does it handle with a bb that high? i want one but thats probably too much for me at 5ft 6.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrumble69
    WOW 16.5! how does it handle with a bb that high? i want one but thats probably too much for me at 5ft 6.
    Well, with sag it's a little lower. Still, it can be a pain until you get used to being up so high. You would think it's very unstable, but it isn't too bad. You notice the height in a few situations, but that extra height pays off in other ways.

    The other thing is the super tight wheelbase. It's about two inches shorter than my HT. I mean, consider that the San An has 16" chainstays. It sits high and tight. I think the combination works for the bike. The only problem I have is that the TT is too short and I use a lay back seatpost. This puts my weight very far rearward. On climbs, the bike tends to wheelie out. A shorter rider wouldn't have this problem.

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    thanks for the info. any idea what the height is with 4.5in of travel?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrumble69
    thanks for the info. any idea what the height is with 4.5in of travel?
    That's going to drop it down some, but it will still ride higher than your average 4.5" travel rig. I'll tell you that the standover on mine is 30". I guess it would also be a little lower on the 4.5" travel set up.

    You do realise that they use the exact same frame for both the small and big bike, right? They just switch out the sub frame (the thing that holds the seatpost and attaches to the main frame). So, unlike most frames that actually do have shorter standover with smaller sizes, the San An does not. It's one size fits all. They actually do a decent job of it, but I would still say that I am on the outer edge of having it fit properly. I'm just under 6'2". I would recommend the San An to someone between 5'6" and 6'. Even then, you should try to find one and ride it before ordering.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guyechka

    The other thing is the super tight wheelbase. It's about two inches shorter than my HT. I mean, consider that the San An has 16" chainstays. It sits high and tight. I think the combination works for the bike.
    That's seems strange. I think the general rule is that with a higher BB you usually have a longer wheelbase. I'm not entirely sure why that is though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bacchanal
    That's seems strange. I think the general rule is that with a higher BB you usually have a longer wheelbase. I'm not entirely sure why that is though.
    Just measured it to make sure.

    San An wheelbase = 42"

    Kona Hoss Dee-lux wheelbase = 43.8"

    So just a little under two inches of difference.

    And I do understand why you would be under the impression that a high BB would mean a longer wheelbase. That would be one easy way to produce a more stable ride. However, there is nothing at all that makes sense about the San An. It's just a very weird bike with some slightly strange handling characteristics. That is, it handles differently but not poorly in comparison to "normal" bikes.

    Oh, and the BB height is listed at 16.75", but I think that would be with a 7" fork. I only have 5.5", so it's slightly lower.

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    Further to what Guyechka has said - the versatility of the San An can also be a big caveat in the wrong hands. You can make the bike rideable or an absolute nightmare.

    Take a look at that pic posted of the San with those monster Shivers (what, 7", 8"?). You know that bike will have a long wheelbase, yet the cockpit will still be tight and upright. If you like a cockpit like that then you can really have your cake and eat it, too. Now, imagine that same bike with a 1/2" sorter shock - longer wheelbase still. (actually, that freak of a San An does look kinda neat ..... but i'm sure it's just the wierdo in me speaking)

    I've had the BB height on mine range anywhere from 13 - 15.5" depending on what shock I was using, which position it was in (on the frame mounts) and what travel i've had my Nixon Elite set to ("115" - "145"). The longer the shock you use the less room you have to play around.

    My NRS is like a Ferrari. My San An is like a Caddy with a 427. Both fast, just different. Very very different.


    Guyechka - what is the difference between the sub-frames anyways? Length, height, both? Honestly, I don't even know which one I have. There are numbers stamped inside it, but I don't know if those mean anything that pertain to the size.
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  14. #14
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    This san an is 15 1/4" to center of BB

    This is my current San Andreas and it rides at 15 1/4" ground to center of BB with a 7.25" i-i float (approx 5" rear travel) and a 5" travel Manitou Minute. Bike weighs 28.5 lbs with King wheelset and no discs. Discs put's it in closer to 30 lbs.

    The freak bike with the Shiver is not mine, not sure who's, but I posted it becuase it's a good example of the upper limits.

    The first pic is my current ride.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    Further to what Guyechka has said - the versatility of the San An can also be a big caveat in the wrong hands. You can make the bike rideable or an absolute nightmare.

    Take a look at that pic posted of the San with those monster Shivers (what, 7", 8"?). You know that bike will have a long wheelbase, yet the cockpit will still be tight and upright. If you like a cockpit like that then you can really have your cake and eat it, too. Now, imagine that same bike with a 1/2" sorter shock - longer wheelbase still. (actually, that freak of a San An does look kinda neat ..... but i'm sure it's just the wierdo in me speaking)

    I've had the BB height on mine range anywhere from 13 - 15.5" depending on what shock I was using, which position it was in (on the frame mounts) and what travel i've had my Nixon Elite set to ("115" - "145"). The longer the shock you use the less room you have to play around.


    My NRS is like a Ferrari. My San An is like a Caddy with a 427. Both fast, just different. Very very different.


    Guyechka - what is the difference between the sub-frames anyways? Length, height, both? Honestly, I don't even know which one I have. There are numbers stamped inside it, but I don't know if those mean anything that pertain to the size.
    do you remember what shock and setup you used to get a 13in bb height? that combined with the short cs length sounds like it would be sweet(even 14.5 would probably be ok).i live in connecticut and the trails here have alot of rocks,roots, and logs so a high bb would probably be a good thing. but even with sag 15.5in and my height(5ft6)seems like it might be a little too much.
    what about the DNA i hear the geometry and sizing is a little different?

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    I have a SA Classic and a new DNA.
    I have had a Marz Jr-T, Monster T, Shiver, and a RS pike on the classic. The pic's show the current config's.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MC9.5
    I have a SA Classic and a new DNA.
    I have had a Marz Jr-T, Monster T, Shiver, and a RS pike on the classic. The pic's show the current config's.
    sweet rides and nice lake pic! how do the two bikes ride compared to each other.

    im thinking of getting either a sa classic,dna or a fury(ive wanted a sa since the early 90s)i live in new england and im not sure what one to get for a all around trail bike.any suggestions?

    BTW i have 2 forks i can use a fox vanilla rlc and a manitou nixon comp

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrumble69
    sweet rides and nice lake pic! how do the two bikes ride compared to each other.

    im thinking of getting either a sa classic,dna or a fury(ive wanted a sa since the early 90s)i live in new england and im not sure what one to get for a all around trail bike.any suggestions?

    BTW i have 2 forks i can use a fox vanilla rlc and a manitou nixon comp

    If I didn't have the Classic, I would be using the DNA in the shorter travel mode for my AM/XC needs. Only because it has replacable drops and has clearance for a larger shock. Any 5" travel fork would suit the bike well. I also live in NE and use the Classic (with 6" travel) for XC without any problems. The bike as you see it (except for the rear wheel is now a Mavic 823) weighs 36lbs on the B-room scale. The DNA tips the scale around 40lbs as shown. I would love to add a Fury to the stable (and just might one of these days) but I am saving for the new MC Battery.

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    Sorry!!

    My bad, I just measured the BB height again. It's 16", not 16.5". I think they say it is supposed to be at 16.25" and mine is coming in a little under that. But the point is unchanged: the San An has a monster high BB.

    I think you guys who are getting 15" must be running it in slack mode.

  20. #20
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MUSTCLIME
    In the intrest of being real, Here are some other issues SA.....
    1) Noise..lots of it! The frame acts like a drum, what would be a little creak on any other bike can be heard a 100 yards away with the SA....
    2) Those water bottle mounts on top of the frame!!!!! The frame has a 28 inch standover hight in the 6inch setting.......two words......nut sack. Look at the picture.....nuf said
    3) The sub frame is a weak point( the thing that holds the seatpost).....broke 3 of them in 2 years...SA replaced them, but it was a 2 week wait each time.
    4) The sheet al frame can( and will) be dented. Flat, thin al sheet = dents....
    5) Everyone will know when you crash! Because of the design of the SA, when you pack it in, It can sound like someone though a case of empty beer cans down a rock field......


    good pints..........cheap, you will almost never see another one on on the trail.

    You must work for another bike company !
    My San Andreas doesn't make a sound when riding and I ride in a very rocky desert.
    My bike doesn't sound like a case of empty beer cans, because I haven't crashed once since I started riding it. It has saved my ass numerouse times when my old Jamis XLT let me down in handling and reliability.
    The newer ones don't even have a water-bottle mount. Who needs one with a Camel Back anyways. Theres also the simple fact, that many of the new long travel designs have little or no standover clearance for the average rider's inseam anyways. My 05 San An has mega standover clearance, even with the 15.5 inch bottom bracket I have a lot more standover than with the POS 04 Dakar XLT I owned before.
    The high bottom bracket does take some getting used to, but once you do get used to it, a person can pedal over just about anything. Like someone said before; its weird but not in a bad way. If you ride a San An for awhile, then get on another bike, you are guaranteed to not like the new bike. For one thing, it'll seem like your wacking your pedals on everything.
    The tighter wheelbase also climbs up tight switch backs way better than the current generation of long wheelbase bikes. I've owned two longer wheelbase bikes; one 03 Stumpjumper FSR and the total POS 04 Jamis XLT. I didn't like either one on tight single track.
    I've put about 1100 miles on my 05 since I built it in Jan 06 and my seat mount hasn't broke yet, but I must admit it looks redesigned compared to the older bikes in the photos.
    The sheet metal will dent, but so do tubes on a standard frameset. Didn't your mommy and daddy teach you, to not break your toys? You know... like not throwing the bike on top of other bikes in the back of a pickup truck for instance. Or...not dropping it on the ground when you stop riding it. Or... not running into it, when parking in the garage for some examples.

    No bike is perfect, you can't set the sag where you want it on a virtual pivot bike for instance without severaly affecting the pedaling performance.
    People that know how to set up a bike, like to change the sag a bit depending on the riding of the day.
    Some of the San Andreas' competitors are way more money and perform much worse, I know , I've ridden them.
    Many of the San Andreas' competitors cost way more and aren't any better.


    Later, Eric
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    My take

    I had an early MC SA a 97 or 98 and although I loved the bike it was not the bike for me and was soon gone. As for it being noisy, yes it was, not a barrell of beer cans but it had a drumming noise to it that was irritating but liveable. My MC moho had the same drumming from a similar fuselage. you can call it ugly but I chose it because of its unique looks. I still admire them every time I see one.
    Ericmopar,I share your dislike for the Jamis. I had a dakar comp and never liked the horst link suspension. I occcasionally ride my friends Dakar expert with the faux bar and that is an improvement, still not the best. Now ride an ICT Ellsworth and a Single pivot Ellsworth and havent considered another new bike in a while, Tried a DW-link Hollow point at Pedros last year and loved the suspension, but non of the frames fit me. Like the looks of Santa Cruz, Nomad and the Yeti 575. Not sure they would be an upgrade.
    Not meant to be a dig but if you have not fallen since you got your SA, are you really pushing the envelope? jim

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrumble69
    do you remember what shock and setup you used to get a 13in bb height? that combined with the short cs length sounds like it would be sweet(even 14.5 would probably be ok).i live in connecticut and the trails here have alot of rocks,roots, and logs so a high bb would probably be a good thing. but even with sag 15.5in and my height(5ft6)seems like it might be a little too much.
    what about the DNA i hear the geometry and sizing is a little different?
    That was a 165 x 37 (6.5 x 1.5") shock producing 4.5" rwt, running the Nixon at the 115mm travel mode (585mm a2c). Can't remember what hole positions, but the HT was about 68-69*. There was still room go either way on the frame's shock mounts, so the HT angle could be increased or decreased.. Don't ask me what the wheelbase was with that set-up - I can't get that info right now.

    For sake of comparison, a 190 x 50 (7.5 x 2") shock with the Nixon at the 145mm travel setting produced the 15.5" BB height. Can you say nose bleed?!?!?!?

    Right now the frame and parts sit awaiting a new shock to be used, something that I can play around with more. The Cloud Nine I was using was horrible with the SA's 3:1 leverage ratio (I posted in Shocks about it). Once I get that it'll be "back to the drawing board" to see if it's something i'll keep/ride. Having the wrong shock on that bike is absolutely THE killer of it's potential.

    I tell you though - it was a strange feeling riding so ..... upright. The cockpit is tight, yet eerily comfortable. I'm hoping .....

    If you want lots of travel with this frame then you'll have to compromise your BB hieght and/or the geometry - there's no way around it.


    Agreed with other rider's about the SA's tendency to be noisy. I find it to be true and it's really hard to say that monocoque frame's aren't more noisy then traditional tube designs. More surface area to absorb impact of debris and amplify sound. It's been said of MANY monocoque designs over the years ..... because it's true. Beer can's down the side of a mountain? I think that anyone that knows what THAT sounds like needs to get a grip and not admit to knowing the sound. Shame for dropping your beer.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo2k
    I had an early MC SA a 97 or 98 and although I loved the bike it was not the bike for me and was soon gone. As for it being noisy, yes it was, not a barrell of beer cans but it had a drumming noise to it that was irritating but liveable. My MC moho had the same drumming from a similar fuselage. you can call it ugly but I chose it because of its unique looks. I still admire them every time I see one.
    Ericmopar,I share your dislike for the Jamis. I had a dakar comp and never liked the horst link suspension. I occcasionally ride my friends Dakar expert with the faux bar and that is an improvement, still not the best. Now ride an ICT Ellsworth and a Single pivot Ellsworth and havent considered another new bike in a while, Tried a DW-link Hollow point at Pedros last year and loved the suspension, but non of the frames fit me. Like the looks of Santa Cruz, Nomad and the Yeti 575. Not sure they would be an upgrade.
    Not meant to be a dig but if you have not fallen since you got your SA, are you really pushing the envelope? jim

    I can't vouch for the older San Ans, but mine which is a 05 or 06, I forget now what year, is not noisy at all. I ride in a lot of loose rock and sand here in southern Nevada and don't hear a peep out of the bike unless the front tire throws up a really big rock, like one thats 2 inches or larger and thats only about once or twice a ride I would guess.
    The potential noise from a monocoque frame was a concern that delayed me ordering one, while I thought about it for a couple of days.
    As far as pushing the envelope, I don't use more than 5 out of 6 inchs of travel, but the thing has a unique ability to straighten up after a crooked landing.
    Another way to put it is; I haven't crashed yet, but I'm riding the same stuff ( with more control ) as with the old POS Jamis XLT.
    In any case; the bike is one of the best on the market. I've ridden other bikes and the only two bikes that I would descibe as being " loved " by me are the new San An and a 2000 Stumpjumper FSR xc that I used to own.
    I got a chance to ride one of the newer Stumpjumper 120s, but it felt too mushy and out of control to me. I checked the sag, which was correct, and it had air front and rear so there was no spring rate issue, it just felt wrong to me.
    It also had a very low bottom bracket which isn't a good thing around Bootleg.
    My San An feels firm and sporty, more like an XC bike, but still sucks up mistakes or big dropins and rock gardens with ease. I have to admit though, that has a lot to do with the invention of SPV, which I have front and rear.
    Still; the SPV won't cure all ills, so the San An must have a good basic design.
    One of the local Santa Cruze dealers made a comment about monocoque frames being noisy, so I told him " I'm glad I didn't waste any money on a Nomad then ".
    You should have seen the look on his face. LOLs!
    Needless to say, he doesn't make comments about my bike any more.
    Actually I'm friends with those guys and would have bought something from them, but they just didn't have the kind of bike I was looking for.
    I was looking at some of the older San An photos and noticed that mine has a strong family resemblance, but I don't think any of the parts are interchangable. The seat mast and mounting locations all look beefed up some and moved a bit, compared to the older models.

    Later, Eric
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar
    One of the local Santa Cruze dealers made a comment about monocoque frames being noisy, so I told him " I'm glad I didn't waste any money on a Nomad then ".
    You should have seen the look on his face. LOLs!

    Later, Eric
    HHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAAAA!!!!!!!!! Oh crap that's hilarious!!!!!!!!! I wish I was there to see that!!!


    Eric, do you have a lot of trees/bushes where you ride? I ask because where I ride I frequent spots where my frame is being "painted" by the branches and that's when I notice the noise. On a "tube bike" it's a very faint sound, but with my SA I know there's contact. So does everyone else. Agreed that at other time's it's dead silent.

    Just a comparison note, really. Maybe SA did something to make the frame quieter with the newer models.
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    I wish I could get my bike out to bootleg

    I get out there at least two weeks every year. I end up renting a bike in Vegas or Boulder. So far I have had a Fuel 80, A KHS 504, and a stumpy 100. I take the bikes for a week and generally ride Bootleg, Cottonwoods/Blue Diamond, and Cowboy trails. A lot different from the East Coast Rocks and roots i am used to. Might be moving out there if SO has her way, just dont know if I could get used to the 100+ heat and the lack of a tree canopy I am used to here. A couple of PICs show the extreme difference. Jim
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewTO
    HHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAAAA!!!!!!!!! Oh crap that's hilarious!!!!!!!!! I wish I was there to see that!!!


    Eric, do you have a lot of trees/bushes where you ride? I ask because where I ride I frequent spots where my frame is being "painted" by the branches and that's when I notice the noise. On a "tube bike" it's a very faint sound, but with my SA I know there's contact. So does everyone else. Agreed that at other time's it's dead silent.

    Just a comparison note, really. Maybe SA did something to make the frame quieter with the newer models.
    We have a lot of creosote bushes, but they aren't usually right next to the trail.
    I haven't noticed any noise when brushing past them in any case. If I brush a cactus, the only thing anyone will hear is me screaming in pain.
    I know Mountain Cycle did make some changes, but I can't see the inside of the mainframe to know what. I only see some changes to the mounting areas for the shock ect.

    Later, Eric
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    ... and if we just ...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo2k
    I get out there at least two weeks every year. I end up renting a bike in Vegas or Boulder. So far I have had a Fuel 80, A KHS 504, and a stumpy 100. I take the bikes for a week and generally ride Bootleg, Cottonwoods/Blue Diamond, and Cowboy trails. A lot different from the East Coast Rocks and roots i am used to. Might be moving out there if SO has her way, just dont know if I could get used to the 100+ heat and the lack of a tree canopy I am used to here. A couple of PICs show the extreme difference. Jim
    I was looking at the pictures and recognize Yuca street, but I'm not sure of the one with the white flag. I think its the upper part of Girlscout, but I'm not sure and the sign is blurry.
    I bet you rented the KHS from Boulder City Outfitters.

    Later, Eric
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    Yeah thats girl scout

    You are right about the KHS, The entire bike costs what I paid for the crank on one of my bikes, but you know, I enjoyed myself anyway. Amusing story: Last year I am taking the shuttle up Bootleg. There are about a dozen of us on the shuttle, and nearly all are wearing full body armor and have Super downhill machines, except me. I am twice their age and look to be a bit out of shape, So they are looking at me like I have two heads. The shuttle stops at the XC trails just below the top and I get off along with another man and his wife. We got to the start of Caldera. We are both looking at the descent, which is obviously a little more than we are used to. He suggest that I go first.I say why ,do you want to sacrafice me, because I am older. He says no, because I am an Emergency room doctor, I hop on my bike and tell him to stay close. Did not see him again that day. jim

  29. #29
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    hey jimbo where was that bottom pic taken? it looks sweet!

  30. #30
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    It is

    Mattapoisett Ma. Jim

  31. #31
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    ... and if we just ... Weird Things Happen at Bootleg...

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo2k
    You are right about the KHS, The entire bike costs what I paid for the crank on one of my bikes, but you know, I enjoyed myself anyway. Amusing story: Last year I am taking the shuttle up Bootleg. There are about a dozen of us on the shuttle, and nearly all are wearing full body armor and have Super downhill machines, except me. I am twice their age and look to be a bit out of shape, So they are looking at me like I have two heads. The shuttle stops at the XC trails just below the top and I get off along with another man and his wife. We got to the start of Caldera. We are both looking at the descent, which is obviously a little more than we are used to. He suggest that I go first.I say why ,do you want to sacrafice me, because I am older. He says no, because I am an Emergency room doctor, I hop on my bike and tell him to stay close. Did not see him again that day. jim
    There's some funny things that happen at Bootleg.
    I was getting a little bit of verbal harassment from one of the downhillers one day, because I don't wear body armour. A friend of mine named Shawn ( whom you probably got the KHS from ) piped in and said "He rides XC" . The other guy said "I don't know man, he should be wearing something" then Shawn said "no really man, he rides cross country, he rides all the way from Henderson to Bootleg". The look on the downhill dude's face was classic. Most drive there and ride, I self shuttle, which is why I love my SA so much.
    I'm not real fast myself, but I sometimes catch people off guard. I have people sprint ahead at first, but then I catch them somewhere else when they bonk. Its a kind of tortise and the hare thing. I also love the looks I get from the hardtail crowd, when I sometimes pass them while climbing, on my San An DHS.
    Actually...the funniest thing thats happened so far while riding the DHS, is the two roadies I caught and passed on the highway shoulder going back to Henderson one day. I don't usually take the shoulder but on this day I was in a hurry to get back home, so I hit the highway instead of the dirt road through Railroad Pass. The rodies saw me coming and sped up on a downgrade section. Now, I don't have the gearing for that, so they got ahead of me. I caught them on the up grade section north of the Railroad Pass casino and passed them. One of them was gasping for breath and asked me in an astounded tone of voice "isn't that a downhill frame!" I simply said "not with modern shock technolgy...it's more of a six inch travel trail bike nowdays". He just grunted and shook his head. LOLs.

    Another funny thing to watch, is Shawn take one of those cheapass 504s and pass the downhillers with it.

    Later, Eric
    Communist Party Member Since 1917.

  32. #32
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    Some random pictures...
    1. Who said something about a freak bike with a Shiver?
    2. 8' to flat (back when it was fashionable)
    3. Amasa
    4. Slick Rock
    5. Flames!!!
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  33. #33
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    awesome pics. how did u do that to the swingarm?

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcrumble69
    awesome pics. how did u do that to the swingarm?
    First, I polished it by hand to a chrome finish with Mothers mag & wheel polish. (very time comsuming).

    I created the flames in AutoCad and transferred them to the Swingarm using tape and a razor blade.

    Then I bead blasted the back half of the swingarm. Removed the tape to reviel the flames.
    Took about 30+ hours to get it right.

    Two months later I cracked the damn thing at the shock lug and had to send it in to MC for replacement. (I wonder if they still have it?)
    I wanted to do the seat mast too, but scrapped the idea after I broke the Swing arm.

    My DNA would look sweet with Flames........maybe some day....

  35. #35
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    More pics -

    These have been saved over the years, I know nothing about them other than what I see in the pics.
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  36. #36
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    Guys, need some help here!!

    I just found a problem with my frame last night and need to fix it.

    The previous owner of my frame broke the shock/swingarm mount and had it repaired. The welder did a great job of welding it and re-enforcing it, but a lousy job of getting it straight. It always wants to attempt to push the shock's eyelet out of it's bore (and does so a little bit).

    I know I can fix this perfectly straight with a jig and a local welder, but now i'm wondering if what I have is even correct. The reducer I use is a short one-piece unit with no shoulders on it. Is this normal? I want to change this while i'm fixing it to be able to use a 2-piece unit with shoulders.

    Anyone have/can take a pic of the mount on their SA, please??? GOTTA be "early" style, '00 - 01 (maybe '02 - 04, too? not sure ..... the shouck mount is on TOP of the swingarm, not tucked into it)

    PATIA!
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  37. #37
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    Hmmm, just had a thought - rather than the time/energy involved in machining/welding a new mount, what about just replacing the shock eyelet/bushing with a spherical piece?

    I'm thinking that the stiffness found in the SA's swingarm would mean I don't have to worry about potential flex that some say can be noted after this type of mod (on other frames).

    Input/opinions?!?!?!
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

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  38. #38
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    Pics

    Do you have any pics of your swingarm? I'd be careful using any spherical bushings or anything that could put an uneven stress on your swingarm pivot mounts. Here's a pic of a 2000 (silver) and a 2001 swingarm side by side.

    I do not have these spare swingarms any more but it shows the shock mounts.

    I do have a spare seat tower if anyone is looking for one.

    Take some close ups so we can see what you have.
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  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAnMan
    Do you have any pics of your swingarm? I'd be careful using any spherical bushings or anything that could put an uneven stress on your swingarm pivot mounts. Here's a pic of a 2000 (silver) and a 2001 swingarm side by side.

    I do not have these spare swingarms any more but it shows the shock mounts.

    I do have a spare seat tower if anyone is looking for one.

    Take some close ups so we can see what you have.
    Hmmm, well alot is now explained. I definetly have an '01. I also have a swingarm that was repaired by a hack! Oh well, for the money I can't complain. Tim (formerly of MC) said the mounts should have a width of 17mm and mine is definetly not that. They straddle the shock as you can see in the picture below - they are about 13 mm. You can also see where the reducer is "peeking" from the shock's body. As the suspension is worked more and more the forces try to force the reducer out, which eventually stops because the mount prevents it from moving any further. The reducers in everything I have (shocks) are shifted the same way.

    Forget the spherical info - this thing is getting re-welded ..... properly this time! (**** that pisses me off! ) How the welder doing the repair would have missed this, or even done it in the first place, is beyond me.

    At least I still have a chance with this thing to make it right, so i'm thankfull for at least that much. I'm loving this thing waaaay too much to give up without a fight ..... and too broke to buy a new frame.

    Thanks for the pics, SAM!!!!! (hope you don't mind the abbrv) VERY helpful!

    BTW - don't worry, i'll post pics soon enough. I'm having a small problem with my "stuff" here and trying to get it sorted before I post a pic of the bike (the wheels look totally screwed up - egg-shaped).
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  40. #40
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    Maybe leave it....

    AndrewTO - If it's not killing you - you may want to leave the mount alone and just install a thin teflon washer on the side it shifts to. If the frame was professionally repaired and hopefully heat treated after welding, I'd say leave it as it lays if it is working. If it cracks, then you can think about a better repair.

    I know the shock will shift even if there it's ever so slightly out of alignment. Try Ace Hardware, they have a variety of different washers and bushings than can be used if you don't like the shock rubbing on the frame.

    My 2005 San Andreas stock rear bushing doesn't have the built-in shoulders; it has a continuous diameter inner bushing and a thrust bushing on ech side.

    I had an old AMP B3 frame repaired without heat treating and it cracked again, different spot. I had it repaired a second time and - same thing. If you search around the forums you'll come accross frame repair threads and they basically all say you have to heat treat aluminum after welding. It's got to be easier to heat treat just a swingarm vs. and entire frame.

    Here's a pic I had in the archives of a brand new 2001 san andreas frame that had never had parts on it.... For inspiration.
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  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAnMan
    AndrewTO - If it's not killing you - you may want to leave the mount alone and just install a thin teflon washer on the side it shifts to. If the frame was professionally repaired and hopefully heat treated after welding, I'd say leave it as it lays if it is working. If it cracks, then you can think about a better repair.

    I know the shock will shift even if there it's ever so slightly out of alignment. Try Ace Hardware, they have a variety of different washers and bushings than can be used if you don't like the shock rubbing on the frame.

    My 2005 San Andreas stock rear bushing doesn't have the built-in shoulders; it has a continuous diameter inner bushing and a thrust bushing on ech side.

    I had an old AMP B3 frame repaired without heat treating and it cracked again, different spot. I had it repaired a second time and - same thing. If you search around the forums you'll come accross frame repair threads and they basically all say you have to heat treat aluminum after welding. It's got to be easier to heat treat just a swingarm vs. and entire frame.

    Here's a pic I had in the archives of a brand new 2001 san andreas frame that had never had parts on it.... For inspiration.
    No, not killing me, but it's eating reducers slowly. I'd have to do something about it sooner or later. Maybe i'll just wait untill season is done and deal with it over the winter.

    As for spacers - no room at all. The swingarm mounts are right against the shock's body. I'd have done that and not worried about it if I could. (but thanks for the idea!!!!!!) Well, okay, maybe there's 0.005" of room between the two - not enough to do the situation any good.

    I have heat treat resources available to me. Heck, I could heat treat a small car if I really wanted. I'll look further into it to be sure. Thanks!

    And thanks for the inspiration! Look very sweet! Gotta dig the Classic.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies.

  42. #42
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    the DNA what is the shock eye to eye and stroke?

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by bwolmarans
    the DNA what is the shock eye to eye and stroke?
    DNA's run either a 7.5 x 2.0 or 7.875 x 2.25. Not sure. Maybe MC9.5 will see this and post verification.


    MC9.5 - yes, it IS a freak. You just don't have the same camera angle to show it off as well.
    I ..... need ..... DIRT!!!!!

    ... and cookies.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ericmopar
    We have a lot of creosote bushes, but they aren't usually right next to the trail.
    I haven't noticed any noise when brushing past them in any case. If I brush a cactus, the only thing anyone will hear is me screaming in pain.
    I know Mountain Cycle did make some changes, but I can't see the inside of the mainframe to know what. I only see some changes to the mounting areas for the shock ect.

    Later, Eric
    I have a '96 San Andreas with a medium seat assembly, I bought the first one with the newer monocoque seat assembly and I have a '05 San Andreas with a medium and small seat assembly. They are all perfectly interchangable.

  45. #45
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  46. #46
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    I finished the rebuild of the '96 yesterday!
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  47. #47
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    oh some nice bikes and yes the bike with the shivers does look freaky.

    first one i ever saw had mc upside down forks and mc discs,anyone got a pic or know what im on about.

    rough guess at year would be 94 onwards maybe.

  48. #48
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    MC head tube sticker?

    The only thing I need to finish off this build is a Mountain Cycle heat tube sticker. Does anyone out there have one they would part with? I can send a self addressed stamed envelope with some money.

  49. #49
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    Very Nice!

    How do you get this thread moved to the Mountain Cycle Forum?

  50. #50
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    Very Nice!

    How do you get this thread moved to the Mountain Cycle Forum?

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanAnMan
    Very Nice!

    How do you get this thread moved to the Mountain Cycle Forum?
    Deja Vu!

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